Dear eponymouse

I am not gonna defend Miele, but one thing you said were that you are a heavy baker and use your ovens alot. 13 years then is alot even if this said applience is an expensive Miele., I feel 13 years is a good number and they have not failed as yet other then now by an accident on your part. I know very well about Miele and their parts cost due to my dishwasher of 9 years stopped working 1 week before easter 2017. Miele came and changed 2 parts and it still did not work and if that would have worked it sould have cost almost 300 $

He plugged his computer into my dishwasher and found out the motor had failed and also the watersoftner and some other thing all that together wouöd have been 3/4 of a new machine. I replaced the machine. I felt that maybe it was to soon but also found out due to I use my machine alot it already had come up to what Miele expect them to run for under 20 years of use. Sure it is never fun to replace something so expensive like an Miele applience but one has to think about how one have used it and think to if I had a less quality machine how much sooner would I have been neding to replace that and how many times would the repairman be at my house. I think that 750$ is very expensive dont get me wrong.

I do wish you a hapoy ending to what ever yiu decide to do.

You've had a good reliable service from your Miele for 13-14 years. You broke the glass on the door and your upset about the price of the part. In the service business we are used to cosmectic type parts not being available after 7-10 years. It's amazing the Miele still has this part available 14 years after production. It's not a commonly replaced part.

Mieles parts are expensive but they do tend to last a very long time as they tend to use a higher quality of parts than some of the lesser brands. The higher quality even extends to their glass. The glass you broke is not the same common glass that you would find in a window. It's a special type of tempered glass with heat reflective coatings. There is also the cost of warehousing the parts over many years that also increases cost. Based on what I see on a daily basis the $750 for this part is not that outrageous.

@linus and Jakvis -- You both make good points. linus, I had not thought about my being a heavy user of the ovens arguing for a shortened lifespan, but I guess you could see it that way. I wonder what Miele and other top-end brands would have to say about the expected average daily or weekly use of their cooking appliances; these are meant to be sold to serious cooks, I think -- in theory, they are not just for show.

Sorry about your experience with the dishwasher, linus. Terrible timing and that was surely frustrating!

@Jakvis -- I think that the glass door is not simply cosmetic. I believe that it is necessary for the self-cleaning cycle. I should add that the Customer Service representative offered the comment that the door is one of the "parts" that begins to fail "about this time." She said that "the glass can break" (she may have said "shatter") easily "if something hits it just the right way." (She may have said "hits it just the wrong way" -- I can't remember her phrasing exactly.) However, I will take your observations into consideration.

Thank you for the intelligent responses!

I can't help but to comment on your statement "No luck on a used/re-furbished part." I wouldn't expect Miele's parts dept to keep a stock of used parts. Maybe refurbished, yes, but outright broken glass is not typically refurbished.

However, if you take it upon yourself to locate the same model of oven on ebay or Craigslist (search nationwide, searchtempest etc) you could obtain the used oven and use it for spare parts.

Considering your oven is 15 years old, I would consider this approach as not likely to have a high chance for success, but still worth a try.

Thank you, future-retiree!

everything is manufactured for cycles, not years. Heavy users will find any mechanical piece fail earlier than later.

In your case, the glass broke on the outside, which is not a mechanical defect. Miele had to store the glass for 13 years in a warehouse waiting to supply it. I doubt that they mfg anymore just for parts.

Is $750 high? Considering the cost of money over 13 years and that it is an assembled piece (labor) probably not. If the rest of the oven is in good shape I would buy the part. New double ovens are expensive

It costs quite a bit ($ capital investment - not earning money) to store / catalog / and keep spare parts in stock.

You make good points about the costs of storing parts over long periods of time (capital costs), delray and geoffrey.

I do wonder, though, about this recurring idea of "heavy use." I accept that a heavy user of an appliance should expect the appliance to wear out sooner than the appliance would do for a light user -- just as someone who drives a car, say, 25,000 miles a year would expect to get fewer years of use out of the car than does someone who drives 8,000 miles a year. But when I say that I am a "serious baker," that doesn't necessarily mean that I use the ovens an abnormally heavy amount of time. That is, aren't these ovens intended for "serious" cooks? I don't run a commercial kitchen, but I do bake on average once a week (which I consider to be "serious," as compared with the average household) -- more at holiday times -- and I make some relatively "fancy" baked goods -- and, too, I cook meals at home more often than not (although I also use our smaller, countertop oven from time to time, in order to save electricity, if the meal is casual -- just nachos, say, or a small casserole of baked macaroni-and-cheese). To follow the analogy of the car user: Insurance rates are typically based on average annual driving of 15,000 miles a year. I wonder what the makers of high-end ovens consider to be a typical number of "cycles," as delray articulately puts it.

If you base it on the anology of average driving or 15,000 miles.... your oven of 13 years has 195,000 miles on it. I find that most of my customers use the oven 1 or 2 time a week in the winter but almost not at all during the late spring, summer, and early fall. That seems to be the average I see.

I wanted to address what the Miele rep might have meant about your glass breaking. Temperured Glass has some unique properties in that it can take most impacts that would break non temperured glass. However if temperured glass is scratched, or if an impact to the edge of the glass, it can shatter under the right circumstances. Also as temperured glass goes through thermocycling each time the oven is used, it weakens the glass slightly to where an strong impact that it could have taken in it's first few years might take just a little less, in later years, than it could take when it was newer. It's rare when oven glass breaks but it does happen. I usually see it 1 or 2 times a year and that is based on approximately 1500 service calls a year.

Thank you, Jakvis! This is not only interesting in its own right (the kind of trivia GardenWeb folks like, I think), but is also very, very useful to me and my husband as we try to decide what to do about repairing versus replacing our ovens. It is also very useful as we think about brand reliability, and helps to put Miele's response to me in perspective.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully!

We've been married 46 years - I have a lot of mile on my ........... Still going strong. But that's different than an appliance :)

> ... had to store the glass for 13 years in a warehouse waiting to supply it. I doubt that they mfg anymore just for parts.

delray33483, this is misleading to the point of giving an inaccurate picture of how the overall process of spare parts really works.

Yes, it is true that some number of spares are manufactured and warehoused at the same time the parts used in assembling a machine are manufactured. But that is not the last time and final time spares are made.

How do I know this is so with Miele? I've purchased a few old Miele machines from CL. I've also purchased many parts from the Miele parts dept. Let's say a washing machine was manufactured in year X (the date will be stamped on a metal plate somewhere). Spare parts will arrive with a label showing Mfg Date: X+8, or X+6, or X+12.

I've never had a spare part with the same manufacturing date (the year) as the machine into or onto which the part will be placed.

they probably mfg for a few years after final production. I would think that most major assemblies are the same since they dont change the basic platform every year. However after 13 years there has been a door/chamber modification that would not allow new parts/assemblies not fitting on old units

You are very lucky to find a part. Typically manufacturers only stock parts for 10 years. Now, you find yourself having to do a cost benefit analysis. $750 spent on an oven that may only give you another 5 to 7 years of use against purchasing a new oven that may or may not give you 10 to 15 years of service.

I had to make this decision with a Thermador. I fixed it. It's was still going when I sold the house last year. If it were me, because it is a Miele, I would take the gamble and repair knowing that I'm going to have to replace sometime in the foreseeable future. But, you have to make a judgement.

homechef -- Thanks for the input. This is a good way to look at the situation, in terms of financial cost/benefit. Glad that you "won" your own "gamble" with the Thermador!

BTW -- Update on contact with Wolf: I had a very helpful conversation yesterday with a representative from the nearest Massachusetts Wolf/SubZero distributorship. She called me pursuant to an email I had sent to Wolf to ask about specific options for replacement ovens. This woman (Jennifer) took the time to speak with me and to (patiently) answer all my questions, even though I made it clear from the outset that my email had probably been referred to the wrong distributor, as I almost certainly live within the Albany, NY area, rather than within the central Massachusetts area that they cover, and she said that Albany is, indeed, outside her distribution area. Jennifer was very helpful, provided answers that were consistent with information I have read here, and seemed to be extremely knowledgeable. She was specific about installation issues where she had information on these, but also was careful to make sure that I understood what the limits of her expertise are, and also careful to note what the applicable legal requirements are that apply to installation (for example, electrical codes). She was generous with her time -- very professional.

I actually have a 2017 Miele oven where the front glass broke from contact with their upgraded "ergonomic" handle which is bolted directly into the front glass structurally. The glass didn't explode, but splintered like an iPhone. I should have known this is a terrible design for anything but aesthetics, but the kicker was the glass pane (no touch screen or special tempering of the interior pane) costs $819 to replace. You can get an OEM windshield for a 2017 Porsche 911 for less than $200 more. WOW!

Yep, nyc glass! There you go!! The glass on my Miele door also splintered, as you describe. And, as you seem to be, I remain dumbfounded at the replacement cost.

nyc_glass_apt. How could you have known how terrible the design of the Miele oven door really is until you experience a dangerous failure like fractured/shattering glass doors? The design of the ultra expensive Miele oven doors is ridiculous. Who mounts a oven handle on a $10,000 range to the outer glass only. No metal backer. Nothing. The warranty does not cover glass breakage, the replacement glass is nearly $1000 and then you can only used Miele authorized technicians to install the replacement glass. It's "Forever Better" brand promise is simply marketing hype. I can find dozens of ovens, under $1000, that are better built than the Miele brand. They may not have all the fancy technical gizmos built into them, but the are much sturdier and safer. Buyer beware.

I have Miele double wall ovens (about 12 years old) and they have failed so I am in full agreement with the original post. Convection on the upper oven failed at 10, now overheats at 12 years and now the bottom oven is failing. The repairman told me 10 years was reasonable and the new part would be over $1000. This is now very expensive extra storage space. (that I don’t need). Would only recommend Miele for vacuums.

Many of their vacuums are superb. However, recently they have canister models with telescoping wands that are defective in design. They have a tiny plastic part that engages to keep the wand extended but it breaks and only one of the seven dwarves or a young child would be the right height to comfortably use the vacuum. You can buy a replacement wand but the defect has not been corrected. This is not true of every canister vacuum model . More recently my 7 year old Miele Futura Diamond Dishwasher "blew out" the control board that illuminates the controls. For a mere $1500. (that includes labor) it can be replaced. The part cost alone hovers in the $1200. range. There's a point at which it's absurd. Miele, I have defended you til now!

I have a meile washing machine that i bought 9 years ago for 1250.00 the repair man told me I needed a new panel board that cost was 1474.69 he also told me meile parts are extremely expensive. I will never buy a meile product

Miele is really the worst. If anything goes wrong with any of their products, you end up paying hundreds just to have someone out. They are not good quality. They look great upon arrival, and it ends there. Save your money.

Miele designs are things of beauty but the business model is a closed system, parts sourced through Miele and priced accordingly, service is also sourced through Miele. As a result, the "15-20-year" life of the appliance should be adjusted to reflect repair costs when major parts fail. My 9-year dishwasher door-opener has died twice right around the 4-year mark, and the part alone is $350. Labor and service is another multiple of that. This experience has discouraged me from every buying another Miele product.

Echo the comments of previous posters. Miele is definitely overrated in my experience. We invested in all-Miele kitchen ten years ago and have had problems with their dishwasher, microwave (speed) oven, as well as the cooking range. While appliances can and do fail for a number of reasons, Miele's service response left us underwhelmed. In one instance, we had Miele come out to repair the appliance and a year and a half later, the same part failed. Miele warranties their repair for only 90 days and their customer service parroted that line and had us pay again for the failed (expensive) part plus labor plus a trip charge. Never Miele again!