It is disheartening. I fear that it will only be a short matter of time before it spreads to the restricted shipping areas.

Every time I read about people sharing cuttings and plant materials etc. from areas that have RRD to those which do not have issues, I cringe...

There was a thread earlier regarding the safety of purchasing from Weeks this year due to the RRD found in their fields. Apparently there is some risk implied by the restrictions above. I think for me, I will pass on anything from Weeks this year. Are they all grown in the same area?

I don't know how close their fields are these days, but both are in the same city (Wasco, CA). I wasn't really in the market for anything new, but like seeing what is new. Now, I'm wondering...if potentially contaminated stock is stored with probably uncontaminated stock, what are the chances of cross contamination? I don't know if the stock is actually sprayed with anything prior to storage. This should help demonstrate how much is actually not produced by the offering nursery. Scroll through the catalog and see what they can't ship to the listed states (both sources).

The tree rose listing (at J & P) for Surreal has fewer restrictions...........strange:

*Due to state restrictions we cannot ship to the following:
Canada, Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands

Does Weeks grow this for J&P? Or is the concern that it was grown in adjacent fields? I guess I'm not familiar with how the supply chain for roses :) And a little worried, I need to see where some of my orders are coming from.

No doubt the mites will spread to all the states eventually. They get carried by wind, storms etc. Orchid seeds have been carried by hurricanes over seas and ended up in the Everglades and everywhere else. If they don't find a way to erradicate the mites RRD will be everywhere. I hope they can use a natural predator instead of chemicals though.

That would be great, except, Humans are the only predator which completely eliminates its food source, so even with biological and predatory controls, there won't be eradication. Obviously standards are raised in fields where no RRD has been observed, and/or sufficiently far enough away from any potentially tainted stock to be deemed "safe". And, apparently those varieties must be sourced from Weeks, I presume, as I've heard nor read nothing about an RRD outbreak at the J&P sourced fields. That is, if they still propagate their own stock. Did you happen to notice for the La Park standard, they're listing it as an "own root tree"? That is either something very odd or a typo.

Ownroot Tree

Item # 39529

Ships in Spring at the proper planting time for your zone. View Schedule

$39.95

Buy 3+ at $31.95 ea

Quantity

UpDown

Add to Cart

Edmunds Roses can't ship to Idaho, either. At this rate, I won't be able to buy any rose online and have it shipped here. Diane

Well, doesn't that make it seem as though Edmunds is selling Weeks roses and either they have only those which can't go to Idaho due to RRD or they don't want to keep track of which can't go where? Chris, it isn't strange the standard, budded bush and own root have varying restrictions. The budded bush apparently was grown in the field where they found RRD. The own root and standards were grown elsewhere. Weeks is only restricting plants and varieties grown in the fields where they grew the research material which tested positive for RRD and the surrounding commercial stock was also tested and found to be positive. That is the only thing that explains all of this.

If you look at J&Ps "NEW" offerings you'll notice that many are Weeks roses that have been around for a while. This goes with the general trend where J&P has stepped away from being a hybridizer that focuses on selling roses that no one else can to buying wholesale from other growers in an effort to expand their offerings.

RRD is something that will likely require a different approach in dealing with it. I would venture that we'll all see new varieties with greater resistance to RRD and less of a focus on eradication given the global marketplace that we all benefit from.

Funny, I remember years ago when the big hoopla was that the federal government cut funding for research on RRD.

-Adrian.

Wow, I'm glad I got SURREAL last season!! It's one of my favorites of my newest roses! The grafted plant was very healthy and had excellent rebloom. Seems kind of ironic that they can't ship to CA. Weren't they grown in CA???

So, it's OK for nurseries to ship their possibly/probably RRV infected/exposed roses to rose gardeners in states where RRV already exists? Outrageous!

I will stay away from nurseries like J & P, whose partcular reputation has already been sullied in recent years.

What a way to treat customers! Money, money, money!

Moses

Beth, the issue is, Weeks received some "research material" from someone where RRD is an issue. The industry skuttlebut is the variety was "Top Gun", a rose which has been touted as being resistant to RRD. Historically, when research material was received, it was grown in an R&D facility or in separate fields, away from the commercial product. J&P had theirs in Somis, in Ventura County. Weeks had one for years in Chino then later in Wasco, from what I understand. The new owner of Weeks planted the "research material" in one of the commercial production fields. It was found to be infected with RRD and some evidence was found the disease had spread to some of the commercial stock surrounding the infected plants. Weeks had some material tested for the disease and they destroyed some material. They felt they had destroyed enough to be safe, but "out of an abundance of caution", they sent out a letter to their wholesale customers that some varieties would be in short supply as they were not going to ship material from the field (or fields) where the infection occurred into states which don't already have established RRD issues. Let's see if this works to post the letter.

Now there is rumor of an issue in the root stocks possibly due to the historically established practice of rooting next year's stocks from the removed tops of last years budded stocks. Precisely how RMV and other issues were widely spread. IF this has continued to be their practice, and there is no reason not to believe it has not been, the breadth of the infection could be substantially worse. It has also been rumored it can require up to two years from infection to expression of symptoms.

This is a huge reason for concern. Weeks can limit to whom they ship those plants. The first level customers can attempt to limit to whom they are sent. What happens to the culls? The Grade 1.5 and 2 plants which are sold to wholesalers who pot and push them for sale at lower priced "nurseries" and big box stores? The chances of the restricted materials making their way into numerous outlets, "accidentally" or even deliberately mis labeled as another variety are too great to be played with. We have all encountered such mis labeling and there have been multiple threads wondering if some of it may have been in efforts to avoid royalties. The margins are too close to the bone to just absorb the cost of destroying large amounts of product. I won't be buying anything out of my "abundance of caution". But, we all like "deals". What is to prevent anyone around me from purchasing a potentially infected "deal", planting it in my neighborhood and spreading RRD? Perhaps I am being alarmist? I hope so, but I am worried.

Yes, Moses, because "you" already have RRD established in your state, the potentially infected materials will be shipped into your state, but not into those with established RRD issues. I know of at least one nursery in a state with RRD who has canceled their entire Weeks order. There may be more. I applaud them for acting in their "abundance of caution", but realistically, how can anyone expect them to throw away a potentially large portion of their early spring and early summer sales? If you go in looking for a budded Surreal (or any other variety) and they are only offering an own root plant of it, or something entirely different, will you be satisfied and buy it? Who takes the loss? Weeks, which is a recently purchased concern, likely saddled with fairly large levels of debt in an already very low margin, shrinking industry? The secondary wholesalers can probably make do with other material from other sources and someone is going to buy their product. The retailer who is expected to offer the named variety? Us?

Thank you for posting and raising awareness regarding this issue, Kim. You are appreciated, on so many levels.

You're welcome, and I sincerely hate this has occurred. Something of this magnitude could honestly spell the end of Weeks. Who knows how leveraged the company is? Destroying that crop in the field is what many of us would hope for to prevent potential spread, but is it economically realistic? I'm not worried about the neighbors on either side of me planting a potentially infected rose as neither of them are rose growers, but what about the rest of the neighborhood, the other neighborhoods or even the City, which plants "ground cover and landscape" varieties all over? The mites move on the wind and, being in California and particularly along the coast, wind is our major "natural resource".

The other side of this seems to me to be, "the rose you bought from us didn't COME with RRD. YOU already have RRD in your community. PROVE we supplied you the infected plant and it didn't contract it from what already existed there." Not sending questionable material to states without RRD could be seen as an effort not to spread it elsewhere, but approving sending it to states where it exists permits them to recoup their costs while allowing them a feasible method of avoiding liability.

I believe I am in the minority of home rose gardeners, but there are probably a few like me. In my neighborhood the likelihood of RRV turning up in my garden through nearby airborne means is extremely slim.

In the last thirty years my neighborhood has changed from single family homes with plenty of children, to homes turned into rental properties to meet the need for: student, professional, and unmarried couples' housing because of the large city hospital across the street, and enormously expanded off campus housing needs for college students/staff here. There is not one child in any of the homes in my neighborhood today.

There has not been a new rose bush planted in anyone's property in my neighborhood in at least 20 years, other than in mine. Rental properties here are bare bone landscaped at best. Roses, even Knock Outs...forget it! Tenants who rose garden around here do not exist. No beautiful neighbors' gardens to enjoy, full of well cared for roses or any plants are present, no indeed!

It's a blessing to me, regarding the rare likelihood of my roses being infected with RRV by air, gardening where I do, but getting RRV through infected new nursery stock I purchase.....that's the most likely route, a nightmare I don't want to experience.

I have never had RRV to date, but if the nurseries send out RRV exposed/suspected rose bushes to me, I'm a potential dead duck!

Moses

RRD. You've likely had some RMV from day one. Too many initials! LOL!!

How do I know that Weeks is in fact removing RRV infected roses from their harvest fields? If it doesn't bother them to ship potentially infected stock, what makes me think that they will go through the time and expense of even cleaning their fields of diseased roses at harvest time? Why should they bother? The stock they ship from infected fields, after they supposedly cull out the diseased roses that may appear to be clean, can be assumed to be diseased, just not visible yet!

How can you tell by looking at a bush that has no visible signs of RRV that it is disease free?

This is a nightmare unfolding.

Moses

I guess it was about 5 years ago, I planted 2 bare root bag roses in SC, and I'm 99% sure they were infected when I planted them. They immediately grew witches brooms, and that's how I found out what RRD was. The only roses growing anywhere near them were mine, and they didn't have it. When I found out what it was, we dug them up and burned them. I haven't seen it since, but I've been scared of buying anything dormant because of that.

I've just burned through the J&P catalog and after looking at only the Weeks, budded roses, Surreal is the only one unable to be shipped to the listed states. Does that mean it is the only one from THAT field? Or was that the variety closest to the infection point? Climbers, standards, own root are all able to be shipped normally and all non Weeks creations carry the standard restriction. There are other Weeks, budded roses able to be shipped with normal restrictions (Scentimental, for example). Was that from the other fields or farther away from the infection point? I don't blame you for not wanting to buy dormant stock, Witchygirl. With RRD in the area, you wouldn't know until it's too late.

Here is one other thing I noticed. Pink Caldwell is still growing in the yard about 20 feet away from where that infected rose was. I'm pretty sure it would have shown symptoms by now if anything had blown toward it. I would guess this stuff isn't traveling miles into people's yards. Not if it's being destroyed anyway, but I guess it's different if you have someone next door that has it growing and spreading all year. Maybe I just got lucky, but nothing was any closer than about 15-20 feet to the infected one.

“It has also been rumored it can require up to two years from infection to expression of symptoms.” -roseseek

Does anyone know what the situation is in Texas, or know how I can find out? I enjoy buying a couple of body bags in early spring to play with, now sounds like I shouldn't do that. Sounds scary enough ordering.

Judith

I very much appreciate the information on this thread, each person should know the facts and be able to make an informed decision. RRD is epidemic in my area, so I have come to accept that a rose getting infected is always a possibility. I spray , I keep my beds clean , I’m vigilant about early detection, and I haven’t seen it my beds since rotating specific miticides (fingers crossed). But I have had a few roses infected previously, it’s terrible, but I don’t regard it as the end of the world. I dig out the infected rose and move on. I probably would buy another Weeks rose this year. I am thankful that they have disclosed as much information as they have, otherwise we would know none of this. Just think...another rose grower may have had RRD in their fields too, and just not disclosed at all. And I’m thankful to Kim for this discussion, since the info was really only made known to those in the business, not the general public.

Concerning JP and SURREAL: There are so many inconsistencies in this year’s catalogue. (For example Ingrid Bergman is described as 4” in size in the general description, then listed as 5-5.5 in the product details). These inconsistencies extend to fragrance and other attributes and are littered throughout the catalogue...someone did an unbelievably sloppy job in putting this together. Is Melania Trump’s old speech writer now in charge of final copy at J&P? (sorry, could not resist). So how can we be sure SURREAL is the ONLY rose intended to have the extended restrictions? Other roses may also have been intended on the extended list. Or perhaps they shortened the list of restricted states for all their roses, but forgot to properly edit the one variety, SURREAL. It seems unlikely that if there are only two major growing fields, only ONE variety would be singled out for the greater restriction.

Ben, what do you spray? And how often? I so far haven't seen any of this, and live in a semi-rural area on 30 acres and no known neighbors grow roses but want to be diligent and try to prevent it. Any advice appreciated!

Judith

Judith,

There was a talk given by Dr Mark Windham where his research group trialed various remedies plus a control for RRD resistance for a period of several seasons. All the trial groups and the control became RRD infected except for 4 miticide treated groups. Bifenthrin and Forbid were two of the four that did not. (I forget the name of the the other two). Notably, the Avid and Neem groups caught RRD.

I spray 2x a month, alternating Bifenthrin and Forbid. Bifenthrin is quite broad spectrum (some say too broad), Forbid is quite mite targeted.

There is other literature that suggests minimal spraying and letting natural predators (such as predatory mites) proliferate. There is still much more research to be done, even Dr Mark mentions his tests are not sufficiently rigorous to qualify as published research. But I choose to follow his results as good antecdotal advice. You’ll notice in the Weeks letter that Kim posted that their solution is to destroy affected plants, then use miticides, too.

50 miles?! I didn't know how lucky I was...

You're welcome, Ben. If, as they wrote, they are limiting the varieties in that field from being shipped into the listed states, perhaps Surreal is the only variety from that field J&P is selling bare root? It is only budded roses from that field which are potentially exposed...supposedly. I am honestly not surprised about the inconsistencies in that (or any other, these days) "catalog". There have always been such inconsistencies, but since the collapse of the established "old guard" several years ago, any information from J&P has been "questionable". Remember how they recycled names and code names, seemingly at will, with no attention paid to whether there was any accuracy? Just plug in any information, wherever it was needed. It seems little has changed.

Ann! Thank you! You ARE "the expert" on RRD! Thank you for linking your RRD E-Book!

As far as I could find, this is the most recent official "report" from the federally funded research group. See the section " Progress 09/01/16 to 08/31/17".

https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/1004350-combatting-rose-rosette-disease-short-and-long-term-approaches.html

This appears to be another rose rosette research group (with their own funding) report:

https://projects.ipmcenters.org/Southern/public/ViewProject.cfm?projectID=9998461

http://explore.research.ufl.edu/uf-researchers-in-fight-to-keep-valentines-day-filled-with-roses.html

http://www.entsoc.org/graduate-student-assistantship-0

I was reading some articles on RRD, and I ran across a comment that might explain why people associate it with knockouts. Some of the people that grow them are definitely bad neighbors. Comment I found - marla

April 3, 2014 at 10:04 pm

I wish I had an answer fo you. I just found out today we have the
disease on our double knockout pink roses from Lowes and Home Depot as
well as Bruce Miller nursery. I live in Firewheel in Garland, Tx and
have about 30 in my front yard. Everyone in the neighborhood loves them.
I am just going to let it run it’s course and then yank them out and
plant new ones. Hopefully I can get a few more years out of these. So
upset.

I have no clue if there is RRD in NE FL yet. We live in a rual residential areas where the lots range from 1 to 7 acres or so. I have no clue what my neighbors grow. I probably don't wanna know lol. I don't see many roses. Most of the houses are like ours set back 300 ft or more from the street and the veggie gardens or what ever are in the back or not visible from the street. I don't really have too much out by the street except wild cannas that grow by the ditch or various tree seedlings that have to get mowed. Lots of giant oaks etc. If my neighbors are growing roses you can bet they are knockouts or hybrid teas from the big box stores.

Hmm, received some interesting information from my local nurseries today. Apparently there were several varieties from Weeks Roses that were not delivered due to “crop failure.” One of those was ALL MY LOVING, a new variety heavily marketed last year:

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.66097

I wasn’t told what the other missing varieties were.

At another location I inquired about Coiner’s bareroots and was cryptically told that they would not be available this year due to virus in the fields. A specific virus was not stated. Another grower/source was expected to deliver the cheaper bareroots, but that didn’t happen either.

To understand the impact of this crop failure: Coiner supplies most of the big box stores, supermarkets, and Costco, etc. I did notice Coiner’s website went offline earlier this year.

This may all be just coincidence... or the rosing apocalypse is upon us.

Does anyone have any up to date information about what the University of Delaware (who was also evaluating roses for RRD resistance) has found?

Sultry Jasmine,

For your reference, at least fifteen years ago there was RRD in northwest Florida in two roses at Goodwood Plantation garden. One of the women who worked to establish that garden saw something wrong on part of two massive Hybrid Musks. She called the county extension people who came out and eventually identified the problem as RRD. Both roses were removed and the problem didn't recurr.

The mites are carried by wind. When they reach a rose and stay there, there's no problem unless they had fed on an infected rose before their journey.

More recently the contorted growth of roses caused by chilli thrips has scared a lot of Floridians into worrying they have RRD. They definitely have reason to worry about both, but recently the chilli thrips have been the more pressing problem, in part because there are so many alternative hosts and the damage is done by the thrips feeding, all of the chilli thrips. Good websites out there from Florida about chilli thrips and roses, and worth your time.

LSU's info on chilli thrips may be closer to north Florida

My local Lowe's has Coiner body bag "bare roots" which look substantially better than the "product of US, packaged in Canada" junk Home Depot is offering.

Thanks for the heads’ up Kim. My local Lowe’s just received pallets of Certified Roses bareroots, Home Depot not until the end of the month....

You're welcome. Wait until you see the garbage HD is about to put out for you. The tags say it came from US fields (whose I wonder?) and potted in Canada. These are the saddest looking things I've seen in a very long while. The Fairy with dead, fried foliage still stuck to the carcass, heavily waxed and several where the scions have rooted and the root stock appearing quite dead. Others with obvious mechanical damage to the canes and shanks, also with fried, waxed on dead foliage. Most only have the varietal names on stickers on the back sides of the containers, though some are tagged with name labels.

Why do they put wax on them?

Waxing them supposedly seals in more of the moisture, preventing them from drying as quickly while trapped in their tombs of dry dirt or saw dust. Perhaps the wax may also function like an oil and suffocate any insect eggs or fungi spores? I don't know about that, but preventing drying out is the main thought. Perhaps they think it makes them prettier? You know, like the oiled and waxed apples and tomatoes you too often find in the markets?

I do most of my shopping online, and I'm not a fan of grafted roses. I could see myself impulse buying one, but definitely not one of those. That wax kind of freaks me out, and I know I'd be trying to scrape it off and probably damage everything. lol

Believe it or not, the wax wasn't hot enough to harm the plant and it does wear off while the plant grows. I use hot wax to seal the ends of my root stock cuts after budding. Nothing else has sealed the cane ends sufficiently to prevent them from bleeding so the sap pushes the buds to grow rather than just bleeding down the stem. For the most part, the plants in that bunch would be what most of us would have called "trash" due to their condition after being dug from the field. Obviously, the "nice ones" made it into other markets and these were sold off as "color", which is what happens to the culls so the grower can recoup at least the cost of the plant. And, it's precisely the market I feared those suspect Weeks plants might filter into...

Makes sense. The one that I suspect had RRD when planted was some cheap thing my husband picked up out of a sale bin somewhere. The ones I planted when I didn't know what grafted was, and learned my Dr Huey lesson, looked awful. I now know the tops were probably dead, but at the time when I looked it up, I found stuff saying it's normal for them to look like sticks, so I thought it was normal. Independent places like HCR/Chamblee etc grow all of their own plants right? So there isn't much chance of like ending up with anything that got away from that outbreak I'm guessing? I'm trying to figure out if there is any way own root stuff is involved. Sorry for all the dumb questions.

Witchy, what a hassle you have some RRD struck plants. You do have to dig those out ASAP and dispose of them bagged in the trash immediately. I think own root rose companies have less mass production than some major grafted rose sellers. This should mean less afflicted plants sent to you and less heartache and work in the long run. Good luck with it all.

As long as no propagation material was harvested from any plant in the affected field and all infected plants were destroyed, there SHOULD be nothing further to be feared from them. The only restrictions on any plants have been on budded varieties grown in that field. Budded Surreal, a Weeks variety sold by J&P, can't be shipped to the restricted states but the own root and standard (tree rose) permutations can. If you live in one of the many states not restricted against receiving the potentially RRD infected material, well... it's legal to send them to your state and hope they aren't affected/infected. I don't know about Camblees and whether they purchase any roses or grow their own. As long as you don't know the answers, there are NO dumb questions. From this specific instance, it appears ONLY budded plants from that specific field are affected, but you are correct. Propagating via any method from an infected plant does carry the potential for spreading the disease.

I got a Betty prior/nearly wild floribunda from one of those bareroots. They had some labelled Anne something (I forget the rest of the name atm)with a picture of a purple bloom, though the tag said salmon coloured. The bareroots when I got it were already in bloom and it had clusters of single pink blooms. Whatever it is, it turned out to be vigorous and a generous bloomer.

Sheila that was around 5 years ago. Believe me...not only was it dug out. It was bagged and burned immediately.

That's great witchygirl. I'm glad it is in the rear view mirror.

This advertisement for Top Gun has a "Not Available" banner across the picture.

https://www.bhg.com/shop/sh-top-gun-own-root-shrub-rose-pd9963c15d47510d4a09c414c4da58653.html