Yep the porches are important to us, like I said we do a lot of outdoor living, although I think the front porch could be trimmed down near the stairs.

Great room would only be living space, there is a small breakfast area off the kitchen for causal eating. Maybe rename it "the living room" and it might be more appealing. We wouldn't use any bar stools or anything on the stretch of counter

Would only need a 6 top table in the dining room for our family's need so I think we're good there. We go to other family's for big holidays, we just like to have Sunday dinner with the five of us in a formal dining room (my wife's rules!)

We have a ten year old daughter and twin 12 year old boys. I'm an ER doc, so we're good with emergencies ;) and the kids know enough to take it easy on the stairs.

Thanks for the feedback Virgil Carter Fine Art. You said the interior is a compromise everywhere, any other areas you think aren't up to snuff?

I think the interior is weird.

The shared powder room is weird. It will be the room most used, for guests, and yet also for people coming in from outside in the dirt. The laundry room is amazingly small for a family (heck it's small for a couple)

One third of the great room will be for traffic flow because NO ONE will pop out of the kitchen into the "hall" - they will cut that corner.

The stairs coming down into the foyer area are more than 1/2 way into the 10' width (roughly). It looks like about 4' of space and an afterthought for stair placement.

The breakfast room is unusable because it's a MAJOR entry thoroughfare.

The kitchen door to the screened porch is borderline dangerous in that it puts traffic through the area with the range.

If you are serious about this plan, I'd invest in some 3D rendering and try to walk around in it / see the light etc. I think it's off, and will be dark and awkward.

Upstairs - that would be a great suite for your daughter - she'd love it.

The "sitting" and "playroom" (really, it's 8x7 - who the heck can get any decent playing done there?) More like "reading NOOK"...

Overall, I think the upstairs would feel airy and spacious - it's about 1000 times better than the downstairs IMO.

The last thing I will say is that it seems like a very "square" plan that was developed with the typical city 1/3 acre lot restrictions in mind - leading to the dark plan. You are on a lot of acreage - stretch out some. You can do WAY better integrating the inside and outside and finding a plan that is more gracious for your family.

Sorry - but you are going to spend a LOT of money - and this plan looks kinda pretty, but lacks a LOT in function.

All good points, I don't agree with all of them but appreciate your view. Not interested in a big ol sprawling house, we like the square look so that's a big appeal of this plan for us. Don't know if this changes your view but the owner of this plan claims all their plans were designed by an architect for a specific client and are then put up for sale. So I do think they have put more thought into the layout than your standard stock plan. Although I before you say it wasn't designed for my specific lot I realize that :)

Keep them coming folks!

I'm not fond of laundry rooms which are not on outside walls. Interior dryer venting always scares me.

Every plan was designed for "someone". ;-) And that's excellent marketing - that you are getting all the care and thoughtfulness in design for "free" - since someone else paid for it.

Best of luck to you in your project.

Well...it always comes down to what's most important for a family. Priorities and compromises between needs and wants...and budget.

But here's the thing: architecture is about more than shelter and keeping the rain out. One doesn't get architecture from plan factories. Plan factories simply market generic plans for generic families for generic sites for generic budgets.

Here's just one example of the difference between working with an architect for a site-specific design and attempting to adapt a plan factory generic plan...

Natural light is a very important ingredient for restful, resourceful and rewarding living. After all, who wants to live in a cave, right? Well...for a home to take advantage of natural light it must: 1) be oriented to the south; and 2) not be more than 1-2 rooms deep so that the natural light may penetrate and be available throughout the sun's movement during the day.

Most architects understand this. Most plan factories don't care about this.

Here's an example of the difference natural light can make:

My thoughts....

- the mudroom hallway (with the lockers especially) is way too narrow for a major thoroughfare

- the breakfast area is too small for furniture if you plan on walking through there (to the mudroom!)

- I do like that the laundry is separate from the mudroom - makes sense! But the laundry room is ridiculously tiny/poorly laid out. There's a sink in front of the washer?? Needs help

- The hallway thing between the den and living room with the closet is awkward

- the living room is narrow - I've put in a scale-ish set of furniture. With that long counter in the kitchen right there (what's it's use???), it really makes it hard to fit everything in the LR + have room to walk

- the door in the kitchen to the screened porch is awkwardly placed - either you have to walk past the sink/DW or walk past the stove to go through it

- also have same thoughts about the stairs that others already brought up

Attached is a 2x2 picture: top left is the original (with some furniture in it); the other three are some quick ideas for the kitchen+dining+mudroom+powder+pantry+etc

I am not "anti pre-designed plan" however I have seen many with much better flow. I would remove the door to the porch that opens in the path of your stove. There are a lot of doors by the master/office/laundry area. I would make the laundry a pocket door and maybe make the laundry room larger, if possible. Not sure if you plan to put a tv in the living room, but the only wall you could looks like over the fireplace. That makes the middle of your living room the only path to get anywhere from outside back porch. I would nix the breakfast room because its too small to allow a table of any type, since that is the walkway from the mudroom to the kitchen. The upstairs looks pretty good.

If you're really locked in to making this plan better, what about moving the laundry room up to the second floor? Seems like it might fit nicely into the playroom space. You could keep a small laundry closet on the main floor if you want, or move the powder bath to that spot, making it easier to expand the mudroom.

It's possible to fix a poor plan in this forum without using an architect IF you're willing to listen the honest critiques from the skilled professionals and talented amateurs who are on here. The few critiques so far, which you did request, haven't been brutal but they have been honest and a considerable help in time and money for anyone seriously considering this plan against all advice. You CAN do better, for yourself and your family. If one were hoping for kudos for having located one of only decent stock plans, this might not be the place.

I agree with all of the very solid points/suggestions above, particularly regarding the mudroom entry, passage to the kitchen, unusable breakfast area, den/dining room, powder room location, and laundry room. Several areas/rooms are basically unusable (mudroom, breakfast area, laundry room), and they are areas/rooms that are of prime importance and in daily use. What will you do in the living/great room, and how do you plan to arrange furniture in the room. Whether you'll be mostly reading, listening to music, watching TV, playing board games, or conversing, you don't seem to have many options regarding furniture placement, even by turning the two smaller doors into windows.

We're a family of five too with a daughter and two sons, between the ages of 17 and 20. What everyone else says is true -- kids grow quickly and take up a fair amount of space. Build a house that you'll all be comfortable in next year and also in five years. Also, even if you're the type of family who build a house every few years, why not take advantage of this particular opportunity to get the best bang for your buck -- and the bucks for that plan will be considerable -- by building a house for YOUR family's needs?

Ahh, a fellow Missourian!

I kinda like the plan, so I'd hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The worst area is the lower left corner with lots of space wasted to hallways/walkways. Damiarain has some good ideas about working those things out - and as a part of that maybe you could move your refrigerator closer to the work area in the kitchen. The powder room is disastrous - as a guest in your home I would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable using it since it has two widely separated entry doors.

And I agree that the laundry room is well-sited but tiny - could you steal a foot or two off the office?

Love the porches.

" . . . use an architect (and I get why) but we would like to use a stock plan . . . "

From all the negatives of this design, I don't think you "get why".

I'm not great at reading floor plans, but I'm not really feeling this one. The things that jump out at me are:

* you're thinking of turning the den into a formal dining space, which seems okay, but what's going to be your second living space? In my experience with teenagers, they start being more and more interested in watching TV or having a room in which to hang out that is not part of the great room.

* do you need a full on office, or could that turn into a small TV/reading/away room? If so, perhaps you could build a pocket office upstairs in what is now called the playroom. That space seems unusable for actually playing, but is probably plenty of room for a built-in desk with a good filing system. It seems to me that an additional hang out space downstairs would be used more frequently than a dedicated office.

* your daughter's suite seems pretty, uh, sweet, whereas bedroom #4 is pretty weak sauce. My kids (ages 13 and 16) are both in rooms about that size (just under 11"x11") and their rooms feel pretty bogus. If I could build right now I would hope to give them at least 18" more each direction. Just their furniture (dresser, twin bed, bedside table) takes up a great deal of floor space and there's not a lot of room left over for all of the crap that accompanies teenagers.

* I don't understand why the space at the top of the stairs is called a sitting room. It's a giant, glorified landing from what I can tell. I would think that a sitting room would have a place to put a sofa and TV, or at least a really comfy armchair and a bookshelf, but with all of the various doors and open stairway, I cannot think of a single use for that space. I am also terribly uncreative and not good at visualizing stuff, so your mileage may vary.

* I can't figure out how you're going to put furniture in that great room. We bought our current house before finding this forum and I cringe on the regular when I think about the comments that folks would have (rightfully) made about our floor plan. It's sort of bonkers, and your great room reminds me a bit of ours. Which we don't use. 'Cause it's laid out in a funny way. We spend 90% of our time hanging out in a much smaller TV room that is comfortable and holds furniture in a way that makes sense. REALLY, REALLY think about how you're going to lay out your furniture and make sure that it actually pertains to how you live.

I get what you're after in terms of a simple exterior design and I think that you can absolutely have that with a better interior. There was a time before really reading up here that I thought that we'd never actually use an architect, but now I know that there's no way that we'll start planning a build without one. And my husband's in a punk rock band for a living, and so we're not exactly high rollers over here. It sounds like you have an amazing property and a pretty solid career. I really urge you to think twice about trying to force this to work for your family when you could have something created that is exactly what you're after. Best wishes! I really hope that I wasn't too harsh.

"Careful" makes zero difference with winder stairs. Someone's going to fall down them. I have a set, so far the score is stairs 3, people 0.

Damiarain's options are much better than the original, especially in eliminating the bottleneck in the lower left hallway and that stupid two-door powder room.

I think this house was designed around all those doors opening onto the screen porch. Unfortunately, the only way to really improve the livability is to remove that.

Keep looking.

I'm not even going to waste my internet time commenting since from your remarks, your mind is made up and it appears you were only looking for us to pat you on the back to tell you how wonderful the plan is. (btw: it's not.)

Plenty of space, each kid gets their own room and our long suffering daughter will get her own bathroom! Two sinks for the boys (the current sink situation is a daily fight).

Plenty of space, yes, but very unequal space. Your daughter's clearly getting the lion's share of the upstairs -- biggest room + a private bathroom. You say your sons are already fighting over amenities, but you're giving one boy a bedroom that's about 40% larger than the other one's room? I see trouble brewing here.

On the positive side, two of the three bedrooms will be big enough to one day hold a queen or king bed. Your kids will be teens before this house is built, and it won't be long 'til you'll be in my shoes and will have sons-and-daughters-in-law ... and then you'll want these bedrooms to be comfortable for visits from adult children and their spouses.

Laundry is in a good proximity to bedrooms and the stairs for upstairs bedrooms.

The laundry is small and located on the interior of the house. I'd look at stealing some space from the over-bloated master bedroom to make this room large enough for a cabinet (or other space) to hold "waiting loads".

I'd also move the machines to the longer wall /make it a pass-through room so you could enter the laundry from the hallway OR from the master bath area. There's no downside to shortening the pathway between your closet and your laundry.

I can't quite figure what's above the laundry room. Is it possible to include a laundry chute so the kids can drop things down?

But what can't be fixed (in its current rendition) is that the laundry is on the interior of the house. This makes it difficult to clean the tubes/vents, making it a fire hazard.

Overall look of the exterior and lots of porches

As someone else said, those porches will be very expensive ... also, the footprint includes jigs and jogs. Be prepared for a BIG number from your builder.

We'd use the "den" as a dining room, maybe close off that powder room door being so close to an eating area though!

I agree that the den would make a good dining room -- with a bit of work. I'd remove that hallway, which is hogging space without providing any real function, and I'd alter that half-bath -- its current odd shape doesn't allow for comfortable use; it just isn't big enough. In this picture, I've just cut it in half -- you could carve out space for it in the mudroom, or it could go to the current laundry location.

Anyway, if you do this to the den, it becomes a large and comfortable dining room. Using the kitchen cabinets as a guideline, I've tried to mock up an 8x3 table -- you say you don't have family gatherings now, but in not too many years you'll have adult children -- this table will allow you to host all your children and their spouses. You'd have two ways to enter the dining room, and you'd have a view of your lovely stairs.

Keep in mind, too, that even though you do not host family dinners now, you may in the future. My mother announced to me and my sister-in-law (we're the two who always attend and help plan family gatherings) that she will no longer host /will no longer provide turkeys or roasts ... she will always attend, but she's DONE doing the, um, heavy lifting. Fair enough. She's in her 70s and has done her share.

The location of the fridge, it's kind of out in no-mans land

Agree. I'd move it to the red spot in the picture below. This would allow its current position to be a great "extra cabinet" to hold the coffee maker, a bowl of fruit, etc. ... and it would be a convenient space to set out dessert or beverages; note it's convenient to the dining room.

Two other thoughts on the kitchen: You don't want your range over on the edge wall in its own "no man's land". That prep sink is not useful in its current spot. This is a large kitchen, but not a well-laid-out kitchen. Take it to the kitchen thread on this site, and you'll get really good help.

While we're talking about the kitchen, note that the breakfast nook is essentially useless. Using the kitchen cabinets as a guideline, I've mocked up a 3' table (SMALL -- you probably want larger for a family of five ... I have a 42" octagonal table, and it's perfect for four people, do-able for five, crowded with six) with five chairs ... note that you have only about 2' to scootch by the island or to enter from the mudroom. That's 2' of walking space IF no one is sitting at the table /has a chair pulled out. Plain and simple, this breakfast room just doesn't work.

What I'd actually do with this kitchen: A more streamlined, simplified L -- common because IT WORKS. Refrigerator at the end of the longest cabinet run /forming a bit of separation between the great room/kitchen ... large sink overlooking the great room ... range on an exterior wall ... small new pantry added in the corner ... large island ... larger breakfast room ideally situated to work with the kitchen /out of the entrance pathway ... and the original refrigerator space functions as described above -- a spot for the coffee maker, etc.

Would want to add some windows along the other wall in the MBR

Obviously more windows. I don't care for the master. Why 15x19' (only slightly smaller than my comfortable family room) for a place to sleep? Note that you have the adjacent office as a sitting space. Will you have a TV next to the fireplace? If so, you'll need to add plenty of insulation between these two rooms. I'd switch the French doors out for a slider; this will prevent trouble with furniture on the porch /door swing.

Great room: It's not great! It's too small and poorly proportioned for both family living and dining

As a living room alone, it's fine. Is that meant to be a bar between the kitchen /great room? You don't have the width for comfortable furniture placement and bar stools, but if it's just a raised edge to hide kitchen clutter, it's fine.

The "sitting" and "playroom" (really, it's 8x7 - who the heck can get any decent playing done there?) More like "reading NOOK"...

It'd be perfect for an upstairs Christmas tree, or -- as you said -- a reading nook, but it isn't large enough to be an actual living area.

I also don't anticipate much "sitting" being done in between the bedrooms. What you actually have is a very wide hallway upstairs. What's sad is that you have a small bedroom nearby, which could benefit from this space.

I wish I had a good idea for this wasted space. It really adds up to another bedroom.

and the kids know enough to take it easy on the stairs.

Eh, no. They're kids, right? It's only a matter of time 'til one of them comes barreling down the stairs, fails to step fully on these awkward steps, and is hurt.

Seriously, no one wants winders on the stairs. It's time to bust out some pictures and be sure you understand what we're talking about. The top two pix are stairs with winders -- awkward pie-shaped steps that don't have space for your full foot to set down ... in the same space, for the same cost you can have a square landing -- safer. The lower two pix show a square landing.

I am not "anti pre-designed plan" however I have seen many with much better flow.

Neither am I -- I'm using one myself! -- but this one is bloated in places /too small in other places. I am all about ample space in functional working spaces, and that's the biggest problem with this plan.

If you're really locked in to making this plan better, what about moving the laundry room up to the second floor? Seems like it might fit nicely into the playroom space. You could keep a small laundry closet on the main floor if you want, or move the powder bath to that spot, making it easier to expand the mudroom.

A very good plan. A small washer/dryer will fit into your large master closet ... move the half-bath to the current laundry space ... put the main laundry (big enough for sheets and towels, etc.) upstairs in that little nook space.
It's possible to fix a poor plan in this forum without using an architect IF you're willing to listen the honest critiques from the skilled professionals and talented amateurs who are on here.

Agree. I think you're new to this project and need to do some homework. I've seen LOTS of plans similar to this one; I think you could probably find one that's a better starting place.

* do you need a full on office, or could that turn into a small TV/reading/away room? If so, perhaps you could build a pocket office upstairs in what is now called the playroom

I agree that a great room /living room PLUS an away space is ideal for most people. You have the larger space for whole-family activities, and that large space is open to the kitchen /dining ... then you have the office for an away-space: a space for someone to watch TV or practice a musical instrument "away from" the main living area. Once you have a houseful of teens, the away space will become your spot to "be present" without being "in the way" while your kids have friends over.

A couple of you, ahem cpartist and beckysharp, need to cool it. In none of my replies did I say or insinuate that all I want is positive feedback and am dead set on this plan. I was simply giving a response and filling in a little more background about my particular situation. As far as I know that's the point of a "discussion" board, but hey I'm not the expert around here.

For the rest, thanks for all the great feedback. We don't necessarily have our hearts set on this plan but we keep going back to it for various reasons. But as you have all nicely pointed out there are definitely some funky parts. I think we're going to continue to ponder for now :)

As an aside, the reason I'm not keen on using an architect this time around is we used one prior to building our current home and got burned bad to the tune of almost 20k. It was a total nightmare. Long story short he came highly recommended by some friends and is in our general circle of friends, he plopped us with a big bill and a house plan that was not what we had talked about after a number of meetings. When we nicely, really nicely, protested that there were issues he pretty much told us too bad the work's done and he's not making changes. Put me in a weird situation with him being "a friend of a friend". I know this isn't the norm and architects must have ethical codes and such too but I'm just not into jumping down that rabbit hole again. We ended up scrapping the whole project, and my 20k 'sob'. In the end we went with a stock plan with our current home that we like. The build we're planning now is to take advantage of our great land, can't wait to get out of town! Thanks again folks!

I kinda like it. I'd swap the laundry and powder room, then reconfigure the mudroom-laundry area to be a bit more open (what are the Xes in the mudroom?), and give then den double doors or something. Me, I'd have a single sink in the boys' bathroom. My boys were rarely in there at the same time, and never, ever used the sink closest to the door. Ever. And the kitchen ain't so good, but could be fixed.

If you're really adverse to going with an architect, I still recommend that you keep looking, as this plan has too many things that jump out. The kids' bedroom size discrepancies for one, the sitting room at the top of the stairs for another, and then the weird powder room and much of the downstairs as yet another. There are tons of standard plans that have three bedrooms up, master down, formal living room and TV room/library downstairs that make better sense.

The land sounds amazing (I'm in Oklahoma, so not too far from you) and I can easily imagine it as being a beautiful place that you can settle into for a long time.

I hate hearing negative architect stories. I would hope you would be able to find a better architect (person) this time around, but there is a lot to be said for first hand personal experience and once bitten, twice shy. Best of luck with your new home.

My comment was made because for every negative mentioned, you glossed over it. Even one as serious as winder stairs and you saying your kids would be careful and that it was ok since you are an ER Dr. Hence my comment. If I was wrong, I apologize

have you looked at Allison Ramsey plans since you don't want to go with an architect again?

Nope didn't gloss over anything, except maybe the stair bit. When "winder" stairs are mentioned in my mind I pictured a staircase with a landing and not the little pie piece steps as MrsPete so nicely illustrated. So that being a big issue didn't quite compute. I appreciate your apology cpartist, and I see you're a frequent poster, but your inital post was pretty snippy. If you're truly after helping people here, which I think you are, you might consider not jumping to such harsh conclusions. Not wanting to spread negativity it just rubbed me wrong. Thanks for making it right :)

You might check out Alan Masacord’s plans, as well. He’s a local-to-me architect who is well-respected here, and I’ve seen his stock plans get better than average marks on this forum. They’re a different look, though. This is one I saw that I thought had a lot of what you were looking for - it’s not perfect, but solves some of the problems with the plan you posted.

https://houseplans.co/house-plans/2383/

Kristin S thanks for that suggestion, that plan does have a nice layout and I think it would easy to make the exterior look like what we're after. I think we'll definitely add that one to the list

Murder stairs!:

:-) You did ask for the brutal truth in the thread title, though.

You might also give a glance to Russell Versacci's Pennywise Plans:
http://www.russellversaci.com/newsite/farmhouses

There are a couple of architects on here that have worked with folks remotely and turned out some lovely plans. They appear to not come with any of the ego trappings that you bumped into in your previous attempt. If you have a special piece of land, I think it would be worthwhile trying something else - at LEAST checking with ARG or Summit Studio or Mark to see what a conceptual design phase would cost. My architect had a $3000 schematic design package that allowed this "try before you buy" concept and the output was quite cool, the process fun, and it gave us confidence to go forward with a larger program.

Edited to Add - the folks here are 1) dedicated to residential architecture and have a real passion for helping people or they would not provide the hours of free advice and actual sketches that they do and 2) there are many already satisfied customers here and 3) you likely don't have to worry about running into them at a party if it doesn't work out!

All hat and no cattle. Daily life just isn’t going to be that pleasant inside the house. It will look pretty when you drive up to it though.

It’s built to look good, but the areas that get used the most are downright dysfunctional. The anti FLW house if you will. Not connected to the land in any way, or to the promotion of family interaction. Not a good family house. Not even a good couples house with occasional visitors.

Versacci has strong, historically based designs--new old houses. No HGTV fads or features from the most recent annual builder's convention here. Not inexpensive, however.

And it will surprise no one that I have read all his books and pick up "New Old House" whenever I spot a copy on the magazine racks at B&N. :-) Even if I can't afford to do one up right.

Most plan factory designs are a vocabulary mish-mash (architectural term), with badly proportioned and poorly connected interior spaces and a conglomerate of mis-matched architectural styles and details on the exterior.

Ramsey and Versacci, on the other hand, produce "new old houses" with architectural character and style. Looney Ricks Kiss used to have a portfolio of new old houses from their projects, but have removed them from the Internet due to some dust-up or other. Bungalow Company has some good work in that style.

For those who want something beyond routine plan factory drizzle, these are some places to look.

I've been pulled down the internet rabbit hole of house plans. This one also seems to fit a lot of your needs while being the right style.

http://www.allisonramseyarchitect.com/plan-details.cfm?planNumber=14331

Hadn't heard of Mr. Versaci before so good lead there! We've looked at a few Allison Ramsey plans, including that one you posted Kristin. Sounds like they produce better work based on what everyone is saying, we'll take a closer look at them :)

Chubster,

I am going to assume that you are attracted to southern colonial/historic types of architecture. I get your vision. You like classic design. I built a William E. Poole Southern colonial home from a stock plan on a 20 acre site. It turned out beautifully. Sadly, I no longer own the forever home.

We ended up making a lot of minor changes to the plan in order to improve it. I think we did a pretty good job. Still, I ended up making a number of compromises. In retrospect, I would hire an architect because there is no way a stock plan is going to give me what I want in a home. You have experience, too. I get that you don't want to make the same mistake twice.

I suggest you take a look at the Mitchell Ginn homes for some inspiration http://mitchginn.com/ We live in the same small town and he custom designed my current home for someone else. Mitch is not an architect, rather he's a designer. While that's not a good thing, his plans are reviewed by a friend of mine who is a licensed architect. He tries to fix what doesn't work. I think the plans are better than most online plans. I think some of his stock plans might suit your taste.

Like you, I hate complicated roof lines. I see dollar signs. Every exterior corner costs extra money. Porches are rooms that don't have walls. They look great but cost a lot of money. There are never enough linen closets. Laundry rooms are never where you want them. I have to have a walk-in pantry. No one has ever built a kitchen or master bathroom that satisfies my needs. You get the idea.

While I love the exterior, I really see some livability issues with this plan. I think you can do better. I know you don't need to spend $20,000 on a custom plan. But, you do need to spend more than $1,600 to get exactly what you want and need.

Please take a leap of faith and have a consultation conversation with our favorite resident architect, Doug, aka ARG, ArchitectRunnerGuy. He has designed some really incredible homes for folks at this site. He has solved a lot of design dilemmas. Just do a search and you will be able to review a bunch of his designs. He's pretty good at this remote designing and he doesn't waste your time. He doesn't just design one style of house, either. I bet you would be impressed with what he could do for you.

You could push out that back wall and get rid of the winding stair and make a landing or get rid of the landing all together. With a few carrier beams you could knock out a few walls for a more open floor plan