..Just saying there aren't any 70 foot bur oak in town. [right now]..as you claimed there are.

>>Biggest I have seen is probably 70ft. <<

I don't think anyone can fully guess that height driving by, Just my best guest out the window.

>>and neither do you<<

Why then I brought this to your attention and

poaky1(zone 6 SW Pa) who said

Hey Plant Love, a 70 foot Burr oak is impressive....

Lol. Well whatever makes you happy at night. I still disagree with you that trees can't grow large here. But that's a waste of a conversation till one of us goes out there with a tape measure.

That's old school...I'll go with laser or drone lol. Looks like I'm done here.

Not to get in the middle of this, but the Wyoming champion burr oak is 70' with a 71' spread in Buffalo, WY. I think the climate in Buffalo, WY is pretty similar to Alberta with worse soil fwiw. A 70' oak in Alberta doesn't seem that unreasonable to me

This 70' Oak would look pretty impressive but currently we don't have such....or maybe one got cut down at the University lol.

>>There was one at the university that was cut down that was probably 70ft<<

Average yearly temperature

Buffalo WY

Low .55 C

High 14.07 C

Edmonton

Low -1 C

High 9C

I would say that's a big or huge difference...not pretty similar, being about 5 degrees warmer in Buffalo WY/ average.

Montana's largest Bur Oak...doesn't look too impressive, maybe 40'

Montana Oak

But this one in WY does look impressive!

Bur Oak

Do any of you guys have a guess on the height of the other trees I posted?

So two in North Dakota are over 80ft. Thats a very comparable climate. High 10.5 and Low -1.2 over the year.

Ok so I judged wrong on the height, but I think we may see a Bur Oak get larger than 50ft if its taken care of well and lives long.

Btw...our city is 9.3 for high over the year lol.

And just because the champion tree is a certain height for a state or province, doesn't mean that they know of every single one in the region. Highly likely they are missing many gigantic ones.

Happy holidays Konrad. Maybe I will find that 70 footer one day and you can come measure it with your pro tool to make sure.

>>So two in North Dakota are over 80ft. Thats a very comparable climate. High 10.5 and Low -1.2 over the year.<<

Nope

High 12.6C low -.66 C ....not near comparable

Ok found Mayville 10.7.78 I was using grand forks till I found Mayville . Very close.https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/mayville/north-dakota/united-states/usnd0226

hardwood is 11.1 https://www.clrsearch.com/Harwood-Demographics/ND/Weather-Forecast-Temperature-Precipitation

And the average low is warmer here. Average for whole year is off by .35. Damn close.

Would blow my mind if that difference added 30ft to a tree. Clearly we can’t make that comparison when Montana at probably identical or warmer climate than ND has a much smaller oak for their champion.

Little irony to add, North Dakota’s oaks are bigger than Minnesota’s champion from the south of the state. And southern Minnesota is a full zone warmer than Fargo. Soil, precipitation, extra watering, fertilizer all play a part as well as temperatures.

i'm gonna suggest you look up the introductions out of NDSU and Morden. likely right up your alley.

I've looked at them and some of our nurseries carry some of those trees. I've tried to email them and get them to send me plant material but they charge alot of money to get them and I need to be a nursery. I would love the Northern Advance Plane Tree. They have a magnolia, redbud, lots of cool stuff rated to zone 3 and 4.

Maackia, what are some of the rarer trees around your parts? Any redbud, Katsura, Siebold Maple, magnolia?

One thing I noticed when I watch American movies, is that trees are trimmed 20 feet up. This probably adds a great deal to the final height of the tree as it forces them to grow up more. Nobody does that with their front yard trees here. Rare that you even see them trimmed up six feet. Boulevard trees may get a good 12ft or so, but they also get nailed with all the road junk when it snows.

Hey Guys, I am pretty sure that the regular English oak is zone 3 hardy, so that's another tree that could be planted where it's just bitter cold. AS for the Sycamore that is hardier than others mentioned above, I would totally try it, I am growing a LIve oak in zone 6a, and they are usually zone 7a at the coldest, it's a special variety that grows up in the mountains in Oklahoma, where it is colder than zone 7a, it grows slower than malasses in winter, but, I am happy to have it in my yard, it'll get some size before I croak, unless I croak soon. BTW, where are you again Plant Love? Canada? Maybe even further north, Sweeden? Anyway, I hope you find the right Sycamore for ya. I think Sweeden is zone 5 or 6 actually, being right off the ocean, unless you are in Northern Sweeden.

BTW, Burr oaks that may get wider than tall are nicer in my opinion, but, I'm sure the one that is tall and thin will eventually get wider, I have many white oak family oaks that get tall and skinny before getting wide, that's pretty much to be expected. I guess, we just have to let them get old enough to finally get some width to them. I have only 1 white oak family oak that is putting out width more or equal to height, it's my Quercus Prinus/Montana or Rock Chestnut oak, and I have 2 of them and only 1 is putting out width along with height. But, my Red oak family oaks are growing pretty fast in height and width. My 2 Q. Alba (eastern white oaks) are thin and sorta tall, they will likely never start with getting wider for many years. Okay, good luck with the hardier Sycamore search. Update if it goes well.

Hey Poaky1.

I am in Canada's prairies by the rocky mountains. Moved from the big city a little while back and lost a full zone (down to 3) but my yard right now is full of zone 4 trees that are on their third winter and with any luck, some of the new ones I did this spring will do well through their first winter as well and I will have loads of pictures (those are a mix of zone 4/5). I have noticed that I win a lot more than I lose when I try trees.

As far as the columnar white oaks or english oaks, the only ones that I have ever seen sold at the nurseries, are regal prince and crimson spire. I'm not sure where that person would have found that but I guess they could have bought it from an online order. I should try to take seeds and propagate or get some leaves from it.

Do you or does anyone else on this forum know about the Northern Belle Magnolia (Magnolia Virginiana)? Apparently its hardy to -35f and is green until below 0f. That is pretty amazing if true. I may try to get one next year.

https://plantlust.com/plants/19086/magnolia-virginiana-northern-belle/

I don't know if I said this already but the person that sold me the sycamore, told me the mother tree had seen -32f or about -35 celcius. I don't think I could have found a hardier source.

@Plant Love - IMHO, I’d work with the hardy Magnolia with a well established reputation for hardiness before trying a M. virginiana cultivar.

M. kobus or M. stellata for starters. The only M. virginiana I’ve ever seen in zone 5b (or better) here are in collectors gardens and always look anemic. Even M. tripetela and M. fraseri are more numerous than M. virginiana around here (still rare mind you).

The couple of Northern Belle that I know of planted around here all died during the cold winters we had a few years back.

Thanks everyone. If they didn't work for you, then I wont try. I'd like to try Leonard Messel though and from what I read on DavesGarden, they are perfectly hardy in the twin cities in exposed locations. Sounds worth a try..

Pennlake, where are you from in Minnesota? Twin cities? I've heard you have some huge tulip poplar and ginkgo there. I planted a few tulip this summer and they are covered by a mound of snow right now. Ginkgo, I'm blown away at the amount of sites that call it zone 3 and yet it dies back even in zone 5 winters in AB. Is it super late to shut down in the fall? I feel like our early winter starts probably hurt alot of plants that would normally be hardy in our zone.

There are two at the university that are the slowest growing trees I have ever seen but don't seem to suffer dieback. They are apparently decades old and here are some pics..

Hm....gardenweb won't let me upload more than one photo right now. This happens alot. Does it happen to anyone else?

I've planted a few trees here that I've never seen in my town including northern pin oak, northern red oak and freeman maple.

I've got black cherry, yellow buckeye (I think there is one in my town - I posted about this) and horse chestnut sewn in the ground. The horse chestnut seed came from a tree in Ft. Collins, I've got high hopes for it. Hope they grow!!

Hey Lane. I think you will be fine with all of those. Besides black cherry which I’m sure is hardy, all the rest are growing 900 miles north of you. There is a 100 yr old horse chestnut in downtown Edmonton and I’ve got lots more pictures of ones that are getting good sized.

Red oak works in my area as well but some do better than others. I have a small one in zone 3 on his third winter . Northern pin oaks are becoming more popular in our area and autumn blaze maple has been planted about 500 times by the city of Edmonton. It does perfectly fine in some spots and dies back in others. I feel like it may have something to do with moisture as we are a very dry climate and places like parks are normally the worst for them. On boulevards and front yards they are doing quite well now. There is a new variety this year out of manitoba called royal celebration and it’s claimed zone 2 which would beat out any other freeman.

There are some decent sized Ginkgo here in the Twin Cities. Tulip poplars are rare, especially of any size. The arboretum has some and occasionally see on in a residential landscape but many look like they have sustained some damage. I don't think anybody has developed either a reliably Zone 4 hardy seed strain or own root clone of a hardy plant that I know of.

Northern Pin oak is quite hardy and when grafted on to bur oak can be used in places where high soil pH is a problem.

Regarding Northern Pin grafted to Bur Oak...I believe the two are not graft compatible which is moot anyway as Northern Pin Oak is as pH tolerant as Northern Red Oak. Pin Oak is the high pH intolerant species.

anyone have an opinion on black cherry? From my limited research it sounds like a tough and adaptable tree.

Back Cherry (Prunus serotina) is almost weedy here. It has some nice features including bark, fall color, and wildlife value. Unfortunately, it is often deformed by black knot and almost never achieves any size. I've got a few that are reaching maturity, but it is not a tree I'd plant because of its susceptibility to BK. If this isn't an issue where you're at, then it would be worth planting.

Magnolia 'Leonard Messel' is doing well for me, but it has only been through three winters. I'd try M. 'Merrill' before LM due to it being a bit more cold hardy. I left one behind at the old place that is now around 25'. The only issue with the Loebner's is they flower in mid-late April, which can be frustrating for z3/4 gardeners.

See Jeffries Nurseries catalog for at least on grower budding a Northern Pin selection onto bur.

The tulip poplar champion is 42' in Minneapolis. That's not bad. Need to get seed from that for a hardy source. Apparently they grow over 100ft in warmer places.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1iit3xAy8xQXBRRuYV8-hbDpytw4&ll=44.92942%2C-93.29604999999998&z=11

American Sycamore is over 80ft tall for champion in Minneapolis. I need that source! Although the Quebec source I have is the same hardiness zone...

And a 74ft bald cypress. Wow. Amazing to see how many people in forums can't even get those to grow in Minnesota....

I think our lack of precipitation in our area is a real killer of trees when they aren't supplemented. Pairing extreme cold with lack of water is a killer.

Tulip Poplar in z4: Often tried, very seldom succeds. The existence of one specimen that has beat the odds is interesting and worth keeping an eye on, but it doesn’t warrant widespread planting. The most impressive Tulip Poplar I’ve seen around here is a 20’ tree in La Crosse, WI. This beautiful small city is zone 4b/5a and can grow things we can’t less than 100 miles north. I don’t know if it’s the coulees or the Mississippi River that makes the difference —or both—but they’re a full zone warmer. Even at that, Tulip Poplar is definitely pushing the envelope.

Well it’s always worth pushing it when you don’t have to spend much to get them ;) just takes that one tree trying harder than all his friends.

“See Jeffries Nurseries catalog for at least on grower budding a Northern Pin selection onto bur.“

That’s either sloppy editing in their catalog or a tree doomed to early failure thanks the delayed graft incompatibility.

>This probably adds a great deal to the final height of the tree as it forces them to grow up more<

It does?

http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/maple-pruning-to-make-taller/

So pruning forces growth in other areas....obviously there is a limitation to how much you would want to do at a time. I have noticed from personal observation of mature trees that have been trimmed on the bottom, end up adding height. I used the word probably because not all trees are the same, and some might just have no energy to grow anymore but from what I have observed, trees will grow to make up for parts that have been trimmed.

http://urbantree.org/Raising.shtml

This other site explains as, "Removing too many low branches shifts future growth to the top of the tree." So maybe its not a healthy thing to do? I don't know because I'm not an expert. That was just my observation.

Smivies, I find that pretty interesting that Jeffries would do that if it doesn't work. Going to be alot of dead or poor looking trees due to that in the future?

Back to the original species asked about. I spotted this London Plane in a local park this afternoon. No idea how tall it is.