Kitchen Layout Feedback
After 20 years in our house, the kitchen is finally (!) almost at the top of our todo list, and we are planning to remodel it in the spring. I have been obsessively researching and experimenting with layouts for the last month, and would love some feedback from you more experienced people!
We are a family of 4, including two teenage boys. Everybody cooks, occasionally all at once, mostly simple fare. We bake but not regularly, except for bread which we make 3-4 times a week using our bread machine to knead the dough, and then bake it in the oven.
Our current layout (see below) is not optimal for more than one cook, and has no space for visitors, so our first goal is to open the kitchen up to the dining room and make it easier for more than one person to use. The second goal is to replace the cabinets, which are old-fashioned built in solid pine, in good shape structurally, but with no drawer runners, doors that don't stay closed, and peeling paint inside that falls into whatever is stored in the base cabinets under the drawers L. We do not need to replace the appliances, although we would be happy to at least replace the range if it fits our budget, which is about 15-20K$. My husband will do most of the work himself, including plumbing and electricity, getting expert help when he needs it. We are willing to use ikea cabinets and to compromise on materials (ie. laminate counters) if necessary.
The house is a 1950's suburban split level. The current dining room and the adjacent part of the kitchen are an addition (from the 70’s?) with a crawl space below and a difficult to access attic above. The remainder of the first floor has a basement below and a more easily accessed attic.
Current first floor layout (one square = 1 ft):
What I like about the current layout is the abundance of counters and cabinets, and the prep space in front of the window.
This is my current favorite new layout (one square = 6"):
What I like about it is the openness, the simplicity and lack of corner cabinets, and the flexibility to move the table/peninsula out of the way in order to extend the dining room table when we entertain. The flaws that I see are that 1) the range area is not protected, 2) the area around the entrance from the mudroom is crowded with doors (kitchen, pantry and dishwasher), and 3) there are considerably less cabinets than we have now. This will be offset to some extent by the new pantry, but I don’t have a good feel for whether we would have more or less storage overall.
What do you think? Do these flaws seem critical? Do you see others? Do you have any better ideas?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Comments (16)
sheloveslayouts
6 years agoRebecca Cowan
6 years agoRelated Discussions
kitchen layout feedback please
Comments (21)You could improve the offset by going to a single bowl sink Agree. I'd also flip-flop the sink and the dishwasher, the goal being to bring the dishwasher closer to the refrigerator. You're going to store glassware in the cabinet to the left of the refrigerator ... and you want your glassware to be easy /quick to put away (and you want that for both your glassware and your silverware). That prep sink next to the fridge is basically useless because there's not enough room on either side and it leaves you with not enough room for setting down groceries next to the fridge too. I think the intention is that that sink is a bar sink ... but I'd get rid of it; it's a rather frivolous item that won't get much use. I'd expect groceries would sit on the island for "put away". No one needs to enter the work zone just to get a glass of water/wine/soda/etc. or to grab a cup of coffee. Wouldn't you be able to get water through the refrigerator? The sink isn't necessary for wine, soda, etc. And don't most people have Keurig-type coffee makers with water tubs on the side ... so that only needs filling every week or so? I'd rather have the storage than this sink ... it'd be a great place to store extra canned drinks. Actualy, I'd rather have a trash can /recycling ... for bottle tops, aluminum cans, etc. Hunt, the countertop is river white granite My favorite. Other thoughts ... much of it about duplicate items: - You're looking at putting in an oversized refrigerator and TWO under-counter refrigerators? Do you really need that much refrigeration? You wouldn't store plates of meat for the grill outdoors, and you have a convenient drink station inside. - I'd lose the outdoor refrigerator ... and put in a bank of outdoor storage drawers for BBQ items: outdoor spatulas, tongs, second-rate hot mitts. My husband is really into grilling, and he has SO MANY BBQ accessories; seriously, we have an old baker's rack in the pantry, and it is FULL of various BBQ things ... I'd love if he could store all that stuff outside by the grill. Well, I'd actually love it if he'd edit a bit, but that's another story. - If you feel the need to serve drinks outside, I'd rather see a short, built-in cabinet sized for a cooler ... this would allow you to set out drinks on ice during parties, and the cabinet would make it a convenient height for everyone. - Similar question: how many eating areas do you have in this house? I can see the breakfast room and the island seating ... with an outdoor grilling area planned, I suspect an outdoor seating area ... and I suspect a house this size has a dining room too. How many dedicated eating areas do you need? I think you're putting in "all the nice things", and some editing would be beneficial. Do you use charcoal (we do 'cause we're a Big Green Egg family), so I'd like to see a spot to store charcoal in this outside grill area. - Leaving grill storage /branching off to another topic: do you have lighting above this outdoor grilling area? It's an oft-neglected detail. My brother didn't put in lights above his grill, so now he wears a head lamp ... like a coal miner. I'd also want an outlet at the top of this area /controlled by an indoor switch ... this would allow you to run a string of decorative lights around the edge of the ceiling. - You have a 3' hinged door leading to the porch ... and literally within reach of it, a sliding glass door. Do you need two ways so close together to reach this small porch? - I'd lose the hinged door ... going from the kitchen to the sliding door is literally one extra step ... this would allow you to extend the outdoor cooking area another 3', giving you space to spread out while cooking /serve outdoors /have a trash can under the cooking area. Also, this hinged door will be difficult to access once you have a table in the breakfast area, especially if a person is seated a the table. - You have a bit of a pinch point between the breakfast room and the island ... it will be problematic if someone is sitting on a barstool and/or in the first chair at the table....See MoreG shaped kitchen layout feedback needed
Comments (36)@WestCoast Hopeful well broken plan is a new trend - just like an open plan was some time ago- only time will tell if it is here to stay . In our family the dinners are special so we wanted the dining room to feel separated . We have full time jobs and cook - so honestly the kitchen is never free of clutter which we want to hide . On the other hand we want to keep an eye on a child wile cooking. Most of my friends who have open plans are partially closing their open spaces . We still need to work on our plan though, but most of the custom homes post 2021 have broken plans...See MoreKitchen layout feedback needed
Comments (11)My small kitchen remodel experience suggests being sure to get frameless cabinets that can be semi-custom; this maximizes interior storage space, and allows you to design beyond standard cabinet/drawer sizes (bigger or smaller, usually in 1/4" increments) to allow the most flexibility in cabinet placement. For example, my base corner cabinet is longer on one arm than in the other, and overall is much smaller than typical, but it still allows me sufficient access to store my rice cooker, extra mixing bowls, and various other things that I don't need frequent access to. Use base drawers instead of base cabinets wherever possible, too. Frameless semi-custom is not necessarily expensive, either. Mine came from a semi-local (about an hour outside the metro area) cabinet maker. Make your cabinet over the fridge 24" deep. Much easier to access and room for sheet & cookie pans, cooling racks, other sundries. I also suggest getting the smallest sink cabinet possible for the minimum size sink that will work for you. Even a 30" sink cabinet, equipped with pullouts, has room for trash, recycling, a compost bin, dishwashing supplies, and cleaning items (and my 28" single basin sink feels huge after my old 2 basin - it is large enough to wash my fridge bins and shelves!) Since you will have a dishwasher, think hard about how you might change your habits - if appropriate- to use a smaller sink than you might be considering. It freed up much needed counter space for me. Likewise, think about how large of a fridge you really need. Most designers default to a 36". I have found that a 30" is quite sufficient for the refrigerator space but I do have a small chest freezer in the basement, since we buy and eat lots of frozen vegetables, fish, and also stock up if we come across an excellent sale on meats/poultry/even cheese. I see your reason for the larger stove, and that probably means that you really do need the larger fridge, too, but I'm just suggesting food for thought. I agree that your table in the kitchen is sufficient for homework etc. Look for more innovative ideas like the stud cabinets, pullout worktop cabinet, toe-kick drawers, narrow pullouts, to maximize storage and accessibility. You are fortunate to have that pantry space already, and you may have other good storage spaces available (basement, garage) so you might not have to design in every possible inch of storage in the kitchen space....See MoreKitchen layout feedback
Comments (11)considering 14 ft 8 in across long wall .....you can form L shape instead of U shape that you are attempting. place the fridge to left of sink and eliminate the lower side wall of cabinets. then extend island to 60 in and you still can have 48 in aisle between island and stove . the drawer cabinets in a 60 in island will be nicer as no corner and they will be opposite the sink along with nicer counter there. This 3 walled space is not that connected to living room so having the better island seating makes staying and lingering a little nicer for people . You plan for a day to day seating area in dining room??? its still nice to have a comfortable island in a kitchen this big I think. sometimes people put the sink on the island and place stove and fridge either side of window in which case the island could be even longer if nothing were on side walls.... there are opinions about sinks on islands which has no definite conclusion.....personal choice. first pic shows fridge and stove on a rear wall/sink on island,,,,,,,,2nd pic uses rear wall for sink/fridge and stove likely on a side wall [cant see that part] think about shifting appliances so a nicer island results.....depends on what you wish for the lg space you have....See MoreRebecca Cowan
6 years ago
Buehl
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoWelcome Rebecca!
We would love to help you with your design. It sounds like you do understand about Kitchen design (e.g., you mentioned protecting the range & Cooking Zone - most people don't know that!)
However, I'll be honest -- your new design is still a one-person kitchen design. There's really only one useful Prep Zone in the design -- the space b/w the range and sink. I think it can be better. So, to help you get the best design, we need a bit more:
First, it really helps us to have a fully measured layout of the space being remodeled. We need a layout with measurements written on it for the widths of each window/wall/door/doorway and the distances between each window/wall/door/doorway. See an example at the end of this post.
Other things...
A sketch of the entire floor the Kitchen is on. This helps us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home and how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. [Edited to add: You included the floor layout -- sorry about that...habit, I guess!]
Where are you flexible? Can windows be changed? Can interior doors/doorways be changed? Can exterior doors/doorways be changed?
The following Kitchens Forum FAQ describes the above and other information that would helpful:
How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?
http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-includeOther useful FAQs:
Kitchen work zones, what are they?
Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and other design considerations
How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?
Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)
As promised....sample layout:
Select/Click on the image to enlarge it.
Buehl
6 years ago- PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
6 years ago Rebecca Cowan
6 years agoThank you Buehl for all the informational links; I had seen some before and will eventually go through all of them. Yes that is a second sink in the corner :)
Here is a drawing of the current layout with measurements for the kitchen and dining room. I don't think we can easily move or resize any windows since the exterior is brick.
Thanks PirateFoxy for the tip about using a cabinet panel to hide the fridge; we will keep it in mind.
PROWeil Friedman Architects
6 years agoHi Rebecca,
I don't know how Sophie knows which walls are load bearing. Obviously you should get an expert opinion on that before tearing walls down.
Here is what I would suggest:
-Shallower pantry cabinets to relieve tight squeeze past the couch in the living room.
-0ne sink, below the window.
Here's a CRUDE sketch of what I think would be an improved version of your layout. The refrigerator creates a bump in the living room, which I would mirror on the other side. The dot/dash line is the centerline of the dining room window.
Rebecca Cowan thanked Weil Friedman Architects
PRORappArchitecture
6 years ago
KD
6 years agoUser
6 years agoRebecca Cowan
6 years ago- PRO
Weil Friedman Architects
6 years agoYes, you have a good point about the symmetry on the fireplace wall. Maybe the wall behind the pantry and refrigerator doesn't move quite so much, and comes straight across. I think you could get away with 78" from mudroom door to wall, where you now have 96". This would open up a lot of possibilities for that wall. The stove could even move to that wall, with the refrigerator staying next to the mudroom door.
The reasoning behind my placement of the sink and stove was to create some symmetry and not have choppy uneven upper cabinets. You really need to look at it in elevation. BTW I think IKEA is great. We have done some IKEA kitchens (see photo) I think they will help you with the design too!
Rebecca Cowan thanked Weil Friedman Architects
Buehl