Can try some of these as well.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/query/home-automation

opaone, try the electronics forum too.

I'm a bit nervous now that you said your Control4 system was glitchy since that's what we're going with and what we read was the gold standard nowadays. Ugh.

I am pretty sure we're going with Crestron upon the advice of our installers / friends. And - they have done all our work offices / tech enabled conference rooms, etc. We'll be doing most of the keypads / touchpad with Apple devices, though, to keep costs down and increase flexibility.

I almost feel like this is an area that is moving quickly and folks may come and go - so it's either pick someone with a long standing support structure, or, go for ultimate flexibility (and Apple HomeKit or Amazon Echo / Google Home based items) and redo them periodically.

What about the Samsung Smartthings? Their hubs are on sale now for $50. I've had mine for a few days now, and have really been impressed by it.

I asked my architect and builder about it, and they both said they really don't have a clue about automation, but the electrician might. So I have a feeling that I am going to have to become my own expert on this and guide the builder and electrician on what I want and how to set it up.

Most big brands are good, the problem is when they're "dated" and can't be serviced/upgraded/changed etc. I can't remember what all the custom builders in my area go with now but they stopped recommending Control4

I am not a big fan of the Internet of Things. I don't need to be locked out of my house if my dog chews up my phone.

For some reason, all these gadgets always put me in mind of Daffy and Elmer and the "House of Tomorrow" with push-button living...

Tech changes too rapidly for us to invest. Here today gone tomorrow. Smart today and well you get the idea.

Thanks all. I did read through the search link threads. Thank you.

The rapidly changing bit is tough. That said, Crestron, RTI and others have been around for a while and systems installed 10-15 years are still in and working — longer than most people keep a TV. It'd be nice if there were more standards though so you'd have some assurance that if vendor Y went out of business that vendor X components would still work.

OTOH, the benefits of a good system should allow it to pay for itself quickly. Being able to check surveillance cameras, security system, doors, HVAC, and other stuff when we travel is very valuable piece of mind. Oh, and being able to see if I remembered to close the garage door (and then closing it if I forgot) is very valuable when we go to a dinner thing. Turning some or all lights on/off with a single button and having various lighting scenes is nice compared to running around every night turning everything off.

Control 4 isn't terrible but not as robust and reliable as we'd like. I think the others above are all a bit better on the reliability side but I think they all cost more too. I'd at least get quotes from a couple of other system integrators so you know what your options are.

They all suck. Doing separate apps sucks less. :)

The key with all these systems is the quality of the installer/programmer. It's a bit like paint - sure, Farrow&Ball is going to be better than Benjamin Moore, but if the painter doesn't do a good job the quality of the paint really doesn't matter. Crestron is top of the line, and costs it, but it does have a good track record. They, like most of the professional systems, are opening up the programming a little more to the end user, but for adding components and major changes and trouble shooting you'll still likely need a pro. Same for Savant. Control4 is a lower price point and more widely used and therefore you are going to see more horror stories than with the others, though whether the actual rate of poor installs is higher is up in the air. That said, it is the one with the most end-user capabilities.

On user programming... We do need to get to the point where these systems are much closer to an Apple device than a Unix device. I should be able to add a component or change a macro as easily with my home automation system as I do with my MacBook.

I'd likely still use an experienced integrator for initial installation & setup and probably for some new components or macro changes. But many things I can likely do faster, easier, and less expensively myself and I should have that option. While some people hire Geeksquad to install a new printer, most of us buy it, plug it in, and our MacBook says hello and starts to use it. Calling an integrator, waiting on them to show up, and then sending them a chunky payment is a PITA.

Apple and Amazon are both heading in that direction. They've a bit to go but they'll get there. Google? Others?

What will be tough for integrators is when a good customer sees his neighbor put in a new Apple system in 2019 with as much capability as the Crestron system that he's paying recurring monthly revenue to an integrator for... Well, for what?

^^^ Until Apple changes "whatever" with no notice and stuff doesn't work anymore. (see lightning connector, OS upgrades that break things, etc)

But I agree - the tech companies are ultimately going to own this space and we jut hang devices off of it. But getting it all to work together elegantly will be the key.

JC hit it. There are SO many companies producing "gizmos" that there are going to be issues. Above and beyond the "boy that's cool factor", the reality is for any "gizmo a" to work with "gizmo c or gizmo d", getting any given number of companies to do this and work with a gizmo from another company is going to be anything but mission impossible. Tech is mostly based on "if this, then that rules". In other words you pull into the garage and your door automatically closes so we need a rule "if the garage door closes, then turn on the lamp in the living room IF..." Then one day the company that makes "gizmo a" comes out with the "upgraded gizmo a"... well guess what, NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK WITH IT.

Think iPhones here. They are making what, 2 plus new models per year? Seems like the iPhone 5 was here and now it's gone. Try to find support and the latest and greatest apps for that phone, good luck with that. Planned obsolescence. In years to come, it'll take a major player such as Apple, Amazon or Google to put together the COMPLETE package.

I frequent a very popular online boating forum and here is one such post from a day ago regarding "smart houses".

---------------------

I got really into SmartThings last year, replaced all of our switches,
added sensors to all of the doors, integrated with my harmony hub,
integrated with Google home and Alexa, ifttt, etc. SmartThings is a
great open platform for those who like to tweak and customize. However,
I'm not sure I'd do it again. Out of the box, the basic automation that
SmartThings (and wink too, I bought one of those and sent it back
because it did next to nothing for automation and there was no ability
to add community-developed extensions) offers are exactly that...very
basic.

Like too basic to be anything other than a novelty IMO. To really
automate with complex rules (when someone comes home then do x but only
if nobody else is already home and the garage hasn't opened in the past
30 minutes, for example), community-developed rule machines are
necessary. Since they are community based, support is limited and they
can (and do) stop working randomly, requiring constant updates and a
decent amount of time on the community forums.

I like the idea of HA but the REAL usefulness and "set it and forget it" type rules are not there yet. For the time being, I'll stick to turning on my lights and watering my lawn the old fashioned way. IT WORKS.

I wouldn't connect home controls to the internet for remote access. It's nice until hacked.

This is why with home surveillance systems you use a VPN so you won’t get hacked, it’s a must.

You’re still not as safe as you think you are. We are doing only wired surveillance and the only remote access to ANYTHING is to a doorbell.

I have an intrusion engineer in the family. These things are connected. :)

You can use a smart toilet to steal IDs. Or just spray someone. But more likely steal financial stuff.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/08/06/smart-toilet-hack/2622723/

If the ONLY REMOTE access to anything is your doorbell, you're wasting your money on wired surveillance or any surveillance cameras for that matter. WITHOUT external access just how do you plan to be able to view your security cameras inside or out ?

Do they make a surveillance system where there is no monthly fee, and everything is stored locally with the exception of events, that can be pushed to the cloud?

I have a ring doorbell now, and I like how if the ring caught someone on the camera and they did break in, that the video footage cannot be stolen to cover up the crime. Nest has really nice cameras, but add a few and you are paying $40 a month, more than what some security services charge for monitoring.

I need something with a low or no monthly fee, that can upload bits of video to the cloud where an alarm is triggered. Anyone know what will do that?

Lots of options. We are going to use Dahua Starlight cameras, best low light system going. Nest WiFi cameras? Negative. For more info go to ipcamtalk.com and read away. Great site, we’re going to network 10 cameras. Do not use a WiFi camera.

You certainly aren't going to be able to program most of the solutions in your list. Crestron - no way - this is locked AND you will not have the program, only a compiled version goes into the system. So even if you get the software, you will need to re-write the entire code versus making an update. Control 4 is a great system. you may have some hiccups, but you should keep on your integration company to fix the issues TV not turning off could be a couple of simple fixes - don't need to get into here. RTI is not on the same tier as Crestron. AMX would be on the same tier. RTI has nice looking remotes, but they volume and channel rockers buttons are swapped from what you are used to. Also, RTI is only as good as the programmer. If you are considering ELAN, make sure to talk to dealers who carry both Elan and Control 4. We still find Control 4 to be the best solution for the price point.