FHB and JLC are great on technical aspects of homebuilding. But the comment that "complex...rooflines waste budget in areas that can only be viewed and never actually experienced." rather misses the whole point of anything but warehousing LeCorbusierian architecture: visual beauty, filtered, of course, through the cultural complex of a given society.

Can't imagine what they would pronounce on a Hugh Newell Jacobsen creation.

Great point, I look at the Fletcher house as a beautiful piece of art respecting symmetry.

Overall I took the article as instructive ways for novice laypeople to avoid the ugly rooflines in McMansions and the importance of designing with the roof in mind instead of ground up by floor plan alone.

worthy when you know the "rules" of good design, you can break them to create something beautiful and noteworthy. However breaking rules of good design because you lack any sense of design is just poor.

Plus the rooflines in your photo follow good design

when you know the "rules" of good design, you can break them....[I know, I know. incomplete quote distorting the writer's intent]

Explains why Frank Gehry gets a pass!

And though I will never "experience" life inside its attic, I still appreciate a soaring roof.

Its roof is soaring as I doubt those are fake dormers and there actually is a 3rd floor. Big difference!

Plus the roof doesn't overpower the lower floors.

What's a roof...?

PS: Before you can break the rules, you have to know what they are...

Oh, I think some rules can be pretty simple. As in Rule #1 for roofs are that they should keep the rain out.

Unfortunately, it’s a rule that some designs, both great and awful, end up breaking. Modern technology has caught up to FLW’s leaking flat roofs, and now great design can be executed while not violating Rule #1.

But, all too often, in the less than great design of today’s Russian nesting doll of intersecting cascading gables, no one wants the .$2.98 materials choice that such design demands. If it can’t be done for $1.98 and in 15 minutes, that builder just doesn’t worry about it. And since no one actually designed these cut and paste mongrels, no one is there that cares that the 70K roof for 3000 sf under roof, actually does job #1 for more than 5 years.

As far as the Jacobsen house, my reaction is “pretty. Glad I’m not the one owning that future roofing disaster.” But I’m a cynic like that. FLW’s houses were mostly nightmares for the owners.

Architects design for the McMansion builders. Never forget that!

"...Architects design for the McMansion builders. Never forget that!..."

Ahhh....come on! This is simply a huge exaggeration for effect. But there's no effect.

Yes, a few builders do use architects, but far and away many builders use drafters and CAD operators; some use "designers" which is just another non-regulated term for mostly the same people. And many builders simply build and re-build what they've done before, again and again, with no originality or concern for good design, site implications, functionality, etc.

For those few builders who use architects, many dictate what and how they want the design to be done--done as they have built before, with little or no originality or creativity.

A very few builders actually use practicing architects, who make their living working independently, and these builders produce some wonderful and original work which stands out from the norm. Joseph Eichler was one example.

Let's get our exaggerations under control.

Exaggeration? Let’s look at a prime McMansion criminal: Toll Brothers. They not only have in-house architects, they have an entire subsidiary division of architecture where you, too, can hire a tract architect to make your own custom McMansion:

http://www.tollarchitecture.com/

In my region, every single ticky- tacky sub development is designed by a team of licensed architects, planners, water mitigation specialists, and even landscape architects.

And they are terrible because MOST people who do hard jobs are terrible at their jobs. You don’t get many terrible checkers, but most licensed plumbers are incapable of a moderately complicated remodel. People who don’t suck at their jobs are a rare and precious commodity.

Every class has someone that graduates at the bottom. And is usually the most charming sales person that you’ll meet, regardless of what they sell.

My uncle is a surgeon. He graduated at the top of his class, was chief resident, etc. His favorite joke:

”What do you call the student who graduates at the bottom of his medical class?

”Doctor.”

But the issue isn’t the bottom 1%. It’s the bottom 50% to 99.9%, depending on the profession. I have shoes smarter than the average school teacher today.

" I have shoes smarter than the average school teacher today." Wow, that's harsh. How many school teachers do you actually know to make this judgement about "the average school teacher today"? I know several, and are related to a few. They are bright and dedicated professionals. I haven't heard any of them make blanket statements disparaging an entire profession, so socially they're definitely brighter than some.

chicagoans, there are some folks on this forum who come on and seem to spout their unsupported opinions as facts. I believe they do so to make themselves feel more adequate.

Like you, I know lots of bright, dedicated teachers who go above and beyond to try and provide a positive and educational experience while having to deal with parents like the poster above.

Millie, Millie, Millie...(shaking head)...

I take that back. I DID try to be a local Math League coach, but even the fifth graders were so impossibly far behind my six year old that I wrote it off as a pointless endeavor, because I wanted it as an extracurricular activity for him. They weren’t born stupid. But bad teaching meant waaay too much remediation at that point.

Back to roof design...

I've always loved the look of a butterfly roof, but I can't imagine they'd fare well in New England. What is their ideal climate? No snow, no leaves, not much rain, not a place where you want deep eaves for solar protection?

Yep, Australia has barely 16" average rainfall a year, mate.

Featured energy efficient homes in FH and JLC typically have the functional beauty of a picnic cooler. Great if you like that sort of thing! (But, then, I have an M.S. in education and history, so I'm not all that.)

We toyed with a butterfly roof, but engineer husband nixed it due to "you spend thousands of dollars trying to move water AWAY from your house - WHY would you drive all that rain / snow / etc into the middle of it???"

Milly you may be book smart but there's more to life than being book smart.

"WHY would you drive all that rain / snow / etc into the middle of it???"

If it was all going into a cistern, you might.

By the way, Milly, what be your profession?

Plus the roof doesn't overpower the lower floors.

Yes, that large brick house has a soaring roof (and, as someone else pointed out, almost certainly a 3rd floor contained under that roof); however, that doesn't mean that you can use the same roofline on a smaller house and expect the same results.

PS: Before you can break the rules, you have to know what they are...

This is true in so many aspects of life. For example, I drill my students on grammar ... and they show me a line in a novel and say, "Look here! It's an incomplete sentence!" or "He started his sentence with a conjuction!"

They have trouble understanding that these authors KNOW the rules, and they also KNOW when it's okay to break them ... for example, in dialogue.

”What do you call the student who graduates at the bottom of his medical class?

”Doctor.”

Yeah, my students like to use that as an excuse to put off their studying ... so when they try that, I make a list of all the milestones through which that "last doctor" has passed before he graduates and becomes a doctor: Earn a bachelor's degree, pass the MCAT, earn a medical degree (in which typically only 2 Bs are allowed in the entire program), complete residency, pass licensing tests ... and they have to agree that they can't really use that "last doctor" as an excuse not to study.

But the issue isn’t the bottom 1%. It’s the bottom 50% to 99.9%,
depending on the profession. I have shoes smarter than the average
school teacher today.

They weren’t born stupid. But bad teaching meant waaay too much remediation at that point.

So many things you're overlooking. So many.

I have to tell you - I am stunned at the accusations and "validations"
about the (low) intelligence of teachers that has been brought forward
here by Milly. SMDH

Trust me, we teachers are used to hearing it.

Trust me, we teachers are used to hearing it.

And what I find absolutely amazing is the number of people who think they are smarter than teachers and home school their kids. And in so many cases, they can't string together a coherent sentence or understand basic civics or math. Yet they think they're smarter than the teachers.

"WHY would you drive all that rain / snow / etc into the middle of it???"

If it was all going into a cistern, you might.

I am capturing all my roof rainwater into a cistern for my entire water usage need, and it's a shed roof. ;-)

Away water! Be gone!

I find myself needing to post here based on the above offensive comments by a certain individual. I graduated in the top 5% of my very competitive high school class and with honors for both ungraduate and graduate school. I teach mathematics at the college level currently. I have found that people who disparage others with such blanket statements usually have some sort of insecurity. I would never write off helping a student succeed. The struggling students are those who need our help the most.

Can we please stay away from "away-school vs homeschool" debates? Arrogance can show its ugly face on either side. We all love our kids and try our best to do right by them.

I've left other forums because of the Education Wars; I'd hate to feel unwelcome here, too (especially since this forum has little to do with how families educate their children).

Thanks. <3

PS -- If anyone likes the OP's post, and would like to learn more, Marianne Cusato has a great book, Get Your House Right, that is full of gems like this roofline stuff.

PPS -- Mrs. Pete, now I can't stop seeing French fries in Mr. Virgil's picture! lol

Edited to add: Ohmygosh, I just noticed the McDonald's sign toward the bottom of the photo! Blind as a bat, I am. ;-)

French fries--it's a double load! :-)

[ODD -- it's Photoshop art by Victor Enrich

https://www.fastcodesign.com/1669210/a-wonderfully-surreal-world-where-buildings-are-shaped-like-guns-and-french-fries]

Wow! What a great site, and such imaginative work! Thanks, Oaktown!

Can we please stay away from "away-school vs homeschool" debates? Arrogance can show its ugly face on either side. We all love our kids and try our best to do right by them.

Let me rephrase what I've said because obviously I know some really excellent and educated parents who home school. As just one example, my neighbor when my kids were growing up, home schooled her kids until middle school. All but one got into top private schools for middle and high school and all went onto very competitive colleges. The one had some learning issues and wound up in the public school system to help him further. She knew he needed the additional services.

So my comments were not meant about all home school parents. And there are many excellent reasons to home school and even reasons not to home school.

However my comments were based on the ridiculous comments by Milly.

Thanks for pointing out the McDonalds logo. I missed it. It does add a certain irony to the effort.

So who needs Photoshop?

Or the famous U.K. "slipping" house.

****

Or Enrich-inspired cityscapes proliferating in real time.

Absolutely! Mr. Gehry's designs defy Photoshop. Good work! :-)

A gentleman who'd graduated a few years before I did used that bit with me when I was a mere first year vet student breathing in and out of a paper sack over neuroanatomy. Because by the time you get to that rather restricted population, you're talking about people who are used to being in the top 5% now being spread across a new bell curve and finding it distinctly unpleasant. The bottom of your average professional school class is still more intelligent than the general population - by a standard deviation or two.

I don't imagine architecture is any different. Plus, you have to throw in a creative element which is challenging to teach. This, in fact, is probably the dividing line between good design and bad design. Those in the profession who lack the creative element are going to gravitate to positions (and within corporate structure is often a good spot) that provides enough distinct parameters that their lack of creativity is a plus, rather than a detriment. They can still design a perfectly acceptable building. It just doesn't... sing.

I tend to view rooflines from the perspective of the Great White North - must shed snow and water, as well as provide room for insulation so you don't lose all the heat out the roof. Ergo, when looking for inspiration for my own project, I've taken a close look at traditional Scandinavian building - along with other areas that have a similar climate.

Worthy -

That Jacobsen design is not a complex roofline. It's a simple roofline, tidily arranged and repeated several times.

The brick one has dormers that look like they have attics behind them, and although it's a tall roof, it's a simple line that doesn't overwhelm the house under it.

I'm sorry, but Milly is allowed to get away with a lot on these forums; they are her enablers. She's made similar sweeping statements about all KDs being useless, or sweeping generalizations about materials, designs, trends, architecture, construction, she appears to know nothing about. She offends people heedlessly. Milly, you've also been asked before what you do for a living, and what your education and training are, and have never answered.