Best course of action for my fiddle fig?

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Hey all, stumbled upon this forum while trying to find advice online for my poor little fig. I purchased it last November from a local nursery here in Los Angeles. It lives in the corner of my living room between 2 north and east facing windows. For the first four months or so it was placed too far from the window and lost many leaves. Once I corrected that it's seem to stabilize a bit however no real new growth has happened apart from a few branches that were sprouting from the bottom but got a bunch of red spots on the leaves and seemingly died off. I was on a once a week watering schedule until one week I missed the day and after that it seemed I had overwatering or under watering issues as more leaves began to fall and the ones that were remaining began to get spotting or yellow. I put the watering on hold after that until it dried out and then began watering again every two weeks. This is also my first house plant so I wasn't sure about feeding it while it wasn't seemingly in a stable condition. I began fertilizing just this last month but haven't noticed any growth yet. I've been reading a lot of different topics on this forum and sort of confuse myself on the best course of action from this point as I'm not sure if it needs to be pruned or reported at this point or if it's too late in the season to try anything that risky. I've attached photos of the root ball, pot and tree position. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

the way it used to be :(

this is planty today

the north and east windows planty lives near

the rootball

the stalk

do the roots look too crowded or is this normal?

the seemingly dormant new growth areas

the pot

planty in the pot

Featured Answer

Ekor Tupai

6 years ago

Water and nutrients moving upward passively. If top most of the tree get too few lights/heat, less evaporation occur, less pressure drop on upper side, then less water and nutrients going there for sure, so no growth on top. The tree will produce branches on bottom trunk to keep it's metabolism, and upper part of the tree will suffer, keep losing leaves and eventually dry. So, first need to fix is environment to make top most of the tree able to do transpiration (more light, air circulation, etc)

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Comments (63)

michaeljgonzalez
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Update, just 2 days after being directly in front of the eastern window I found this lil guy:

It's small but I'm excited
robin98
6 years ago
It's thanking you already! This is how you get sucked into doing so much for them. Such as rearrranging your living room and going out to buy Dynagro now ;)
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michaeljgonzalez
Original Author
6 years ago
Update, one week later and already 3 new leaves! I received the foliage pro so it's ready to go for next watering (:
robin98
6 years ago
Awesome!! Thanks for update. Once it's well underway, you could rotate the pot a little eg. a quarter turn every 1-2 weeks, to keep the growth balanced. Not just yet though, I'd let it enjoy as much sun as possible first to get its energy up :)
michaeljgonzalez
Original Author
6 years ago
Thanks will do! I checked the would today and the top is dry but the middle to bottom is still moist. Shall I hold off watering until until the entire root ball is dry?
robin98
6 years ago
Yes, wait until the wooden dowel that you push in to the bottom of the pot comes out dry. When it first feels dry to us, that's the time to water. At that point there's still enough moisture in your soil that you haven't stressed your plant (we just can't feel it). I can't always tell just by looking, so I feel the tip - its cool when there's still moisture. Then water slowly and thoroughly, so some comes out the drainage holes of the pot. I water a bit first then come back about 10 minutes later to water thoroughly, that way the soil moistens more evenly.

For me, once the surface looks dry, I'll stick a finger in an inch. Once that looks dry I'll lift the pot (yours might be too big). Once that feels light I'll check with a skewer or bamboo chopstick (my pots are small enough for them to reach deep enough) When that's dry, I'll water. Keep an eye on the leaves too, their angle and firmness. If they droop a little or feel softer you may have left it too long.

Sounds complicated but it's not really. You'll soon get a feel for the time interval roughly, and know when you need to watch closely. Water intake will increase when they're growing or it's quite warm or they're rootbound. And please note that this applies to ficus - some plants eg. ferns don't like to dry out like this.
Ekor Tupai
6 years ago
In 2 season countries, most ficus have 2 pattern of growth. In rainy season, they grow leaves, roots, and aerial root (for some var) rapidly, using abundant water to absorb nutrients and remove over water from their roots. In dry season they using limited water for trunk hardening, lignify, and grow less leaves. They have high tolerance against drought or overwatered so wide range of watering habit or soil types is possible for ficus. For indoor with limited light, Robin's way above is good. Lil dry is good for indoor ficus since transpiration rate will be limited.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Hi, I'm hoping to get some advice for my FLF, I'm a newbie as far as growing and keeping any plants alive, I'm passionate about interior design but not a pro, I googled easy To grow modern house plants and FLF seems to come up a lot. So I went to all the nurseries and big box stores and finally stumbled into a 4ft FLF about 6wks ago. Low and behold there is nothing easy about this plant, I wished I researched more before I dove into buying (which wasn't cheap), I started calling it Finicky leaf fig. Anyways 5 days into it small black flies started to invade my home, again I gooled Met these little buggers called gnats, don't seem to harm the plant but definitely harmed my mental health as they drive me insane. So I freaked out and decided to take out 2 inches of the top soil but then decided to go all the way & took it out of the pot it came W/ fm the store, washed the pot w/ soapy water & repotted my plant (in same pot) w/ a mix of succulent and miracle gro potting soil, I've been deligent w/ checking the soil for moisture and pretty sure I'm not over watering, Cut 2, 5 wks later brown spots on the leaf started to appear and a few of the leaves re kind of deformed and splitting/tearing,

I'm starting to think I've bit more than I can chew I'd like to try to save and bring it's beauty or off to the store Mr, Finicky leaf fig goes ( Good thing I have 365 days to return w/ refund). Any thoughts, advice please I'd really hate To send him back.
robin98
6 years ago
That is such a cute dog!! Love the way it's sitting :) Nice plants too. My first thought is that your type of soil mix will retain water and there is quite a lot of it in that large pot, so the bottom layers could be staying too wet, which is a common cause of browning leaf edges and tips. What were the roots like? How much of the pot does the root ball take up? How are you checking the soil moisture? How long is it staying damp for? Are there drainage holes?

Depending on the answers, you may be able to carefully manage its watering through your winter and plan to repot into a better draining mix in late spring.

I understand your frustration that it's not as easy a plant as you thought - I'm still cross at some of mine for not just doing what suits me - but given that you have such a long return-policy and that you've already invested time into trying to help it (are those gnats gone now?) I'd give it a go for a bit longer.

First off, try to meet its requirements for light, temperature, watering, humidity, no cold drafts etc. Check it for pests and that it's soil is not staying too wet. Fertilising will need to be considered at some point but there's no rush right now as your soil mixes will have some in them. I suspect the leaves tearing and deforming will relate back to soil and watering too, for a few reasons, but I've read that dry air and breezes can play a role, causing new leaves to stick to themselves as they unfold, tearing in the process.

There's tons of information on these forums about these problems, many people have been in the same boat. So don't send it back just yet!
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

robin98 thank you for the insight... and the dog don't get fooled by it's looks, he is a beast, spoiled beast as a matter of fact :) as for your questions, the root ball was healthy no rot nor "soggy", when I repotted there was about 2inches or so of space in between the rootball and the sides of the pot and I filled up about 4 inches of dirt on the bottom of the pot before I put the plant in. It is still in it's original plastic pot from the store which happens to sit perfectly on top of this new ceramic planter just for looks and there is about 3 inches of space from the bottom of plastic pot and ceramic pot. The plastic pot has 1 single drainage hole in the middle. I used a dowel to check moisture but now that I think about it the last couple of times I watered which is once/week and just about 1/4 gallon of water (Is this appropriate?) the the dowel felt cool. I've read so many different info on the web, one person said just a cup/week? I do live in las vegas which is very dry air, and currently our temperature outside is brutal at 102-115 deg, so indoors we do have our AC 24/7 for necessity and kept it around 75 deg. There is a vent on the ceiling about 7ft away From the plant but I made sure to adjust it so It is not directly blowing on it. I have mr. FLF situated on an East facing window with wooden blinds in the morning when it is getting max sunlight and lift up the blinds in the afternoon. The pot that it's in is 12" tall with 13" opening (picture above) is this too big? If so, I'm aftraid to re-pot it as I don't want to stress it any further. Right now I am so afraid to even touch it:( as for the gnats situation it is better, though there's still a few straglers hanging around but not as bad. I caught a few from the sticky fly paper trap and I sprayed the top soil with mixture of neem oil, soap & water (per google suggestion), is this good/bad for the plant, if good can I use this mixture to spray the leaves to prevent any more infestation, how often? I apologize for the gazillion questions and the lengthy reply, I am desperate and if there's a book for growing house plants for dummies I'd be glad to read it. Looking forward for your suggestions.
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
You know, I thought I saw a bit of an evil glint in his eye!
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Yep, sometimes I do believe he is possessed!
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
I'll offer one response: ignore anyone who says you should give a plant a fixed amount of water or that you should water on some sort of a schedule. The problem with the former is that a plant's water needs change dramatically depending on the time of the year, and both pieces of of advice ignore the principle that a container plant should be watered according to its needs, not according to some schedule or prescription. Watering is critical for all plants, and ficuses really respond to light.

Instead, use the dowel method, and water only when the tip of the dowel feels dry to the touch. Then water slowly and steadily, wetting the entire surface of the soil, until 10-15% of the volume of the pot drains out. Let it drain, prop it up at 45 degrees for 10-15 (or more) minutes, then set it upright again into no more water exits the pot. Also, never let it stand in drained water.

It's too bad that sellers are exploiting the popularity of ficus lyrata by telling novices that they don't need much attention, and that they give the buyer such ridiculous advice about what the plant needs. The good news is that they're really great plants when they're in the right soil and with a little attention to light, watering, and fertilizing, and will pay you back for the investment in their care.
robin98
6 years ago
Good to hear roots look ok and that it's in a plastic pot inside your decorative one - I do the same and it makes life easier, means you can water and drain them properly, carry them to the shower occasionally for a good rinse off etc. Follow litterbuggy's watering advice, these plants need their soil to dry out and then be watered thoroughly, then dry out again.

With your peaty mix you should see crumbs of soil on your dowel (I use a wooden skewer) when it's still moist, like checking a cake, and usually the tip feels cool. Also watch the leaves - if they sag or feel soft you've left it a bit too long. And check the weight of the pot - there's quite a difference between dry and watered. Sounds complicated but it's really not, I promise!

Tilting the pot to drain more works well (search "perched water table" for the scientific explanation), but does require your pot to have holes around the edge of the bottom, not just in the centre. You could drill more holes if you're coordinated enough, or use a "wick" (again, search this technique), or, after it seems to have stopped draining, try placing the pot on a towel making sure the towel pushes up to contact the soil at the drain hole, to draw out any more excess (this is what I do). You're not trying to pull out all the water you've just put in, just reduce the saturated level at the bottom that suffocates the roots.

I wouldn't repot it again now, I think it's too traumatic and you can manage it as is. You may get other opinions on that. Your temperature sounds fine and it's good your aircon isn't blowing directly on it - but does that make your air really dry? Our humidity is pretty high here in NZ so it's not a factor for me, but maybe that's contributing to your leaves reactions..

FLF's need sun, usually it's recommended to have them in a southern (for northern hemisphere) or western window, so for your eastern window you can leave the blinds up all day so it gets as much as possible. The window filters the sun so it's not nearly as strong as outside. Heat buildup shouldn't be an issue in an eastern window. But use common sense.

Letting the soil dry more should discourage those gnats. I doubt spraying the soil surface will get rid of them, and if you're using regular dish soap you could harm the plants roots. Insecticidal soap is better, but still is supposed to be used for pests on the plants leaves, whereas the gnat larvae are in the soil. You could try a treatment called "mosquito bits".

One last thing : check the spots in the two photos above the evil pooch more closely, see if they scrape off. I'm just thinking to rule out pests like scale. Hope some of that helps. Let us know how you get on!
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
Actually, my large schefflera is in a pot with one hole in the middle, so the perched water drains out when I set it upright (it's in 5:1:1, so it only holds a few ounces of extra water anyway). The rest of my plants are in plastic pots that have holes around the perimeter of the bottom, which simplifies things. Still, a wick helps drain water out quickly.

Be aware that the symptoms of overwatering and underwatering are much the same because they both cause root death, leading to wilting and brown patches on the leaves of F. lyrata (in F. benjamina the small leaves turn yellow and fall off quickly). If leaves wilt when the dowel still comes out wet there's some kind of problem, such as unevenly mixed soil or or areas of the pot getting hydrophobic.

My ficuses are supposed to need high humidity, too, but they don't seem to mind the summer daytime RH of 15-20% or the arid heat from my radiators in winter, so I think it's something they just prefer. Misting doesn't make any difference unless you do it all day, but you can use a good humidifier if you're concerned about it, and your sinuses might appreciate it too.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Oh gosh, I've got so much to learn, thank you both robin98 & litterbuggy for sharing your knowledge. I better get to work then starting with crossing off "watery wednesday" on my weekly regimine yes I had read it on the internet to pick a day of the week to water and name it so I wont forget :) I know, I know but it shows I'm committed right? :)

robin98 yes our air is very dry out here as it is In Las Vegas NV, litterbuggy humidifier sound like a good idea.

As far as those little dark brown dots on the leaf they don't come off and it goes all the way through the back of the leaf so I'm assuming it's not infestation. And btw robin98 thank you for the mosquito bits, off to home depot to get it asap to get my sanity back these gnats are driving me nuts!

I've been researching and reading the forums as robin98 suggested and found out softened water is a no no, well, guess what, we use water softener due to the fact that our water source here in vegas is too hard, and I don't think my husband will be thrilled with the idea of watering with bottled water, so I guess I'm stuck with softened water for now, I hope this is not too detrimental to my plant's health? I am considering of getting those portable water filters that you attach on the faucets not sure if those do much will still have to do some reading on it.

Thank you both again for your advice, will keep you posted.
robin98
6 years ago
You may have hit the nail on the head with the softened water - basically it has more sodium which builds up in the soil, especially if you've been watering just a little at a time (those watery wednesdays!) The salt buildup interferes with the roots absorbing water, actually sort of pulls it the other way, so your tree could be effectively dehydrated even though the soil is moist. Which will brown leaves.

Bugger! Seems some plants are more sensitive to this than others (calathea are known to be touchy about it). Is there an outside tap that is not on the softening system you can get water from? I can understand a reluctance to buy bottled water all the time, but perhaps do so for at least its next watering (get distilled water not spring) and flush the soil through by watering thoroughly several times several minutes apart (firstly to redissolve the salts into the water, then to flush them out the bottom of the pot)

I don't have to deal with this myself, but hopefully someone in the same situation as you will chime in. We're on rainwater, but I won't suggest you try to collect that in your climate!!
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
Would your DH be okay using reverse osmosis (R/O) water to flush once a month or two and using regular water the rest of the time? It only costs about $.50 per gallon from a supermarket water machine. The first time you flush a plant that has lots of mineral deposits (like your spider plant) you'll need several times the volume of the pot, but after that you'll only need a fraction of that so long as you don't water in sips.

As for me, I initially used supermarket R/O water to flush years of mineral deposits from my plants, and since then I've used water from my PUR faucet filter, which removes at least some minerals. Now I plan to buy a basic R/O filter system for a couple hundred dollars once I run out of PUR filters to save a little money.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
So just a little update on my FLF, As adviced,I flushed the soil, I used4 gal of distilled water, let it stand/drain, tilt at 45 deg angle and Also decided to put a wick since the soil looked very wet even after tilting both sides for about an hour. It has been 2 wks and I haven't watered it since bec the soil is still wet and damp from the top. after the flushing more browning on the leaf edges seems got worse, a few new browning on the other once healthy leaves , I blamed it on the soil mix probably unable to handle that much water during flushing. Anyways I was about to give up until 2 days ago I noticed 2 new growths yay! Although the bigger growth seems to have some browning on it and a small hole, am hoping the smaller growth will be healthier, any thoughts on this? So questions:

- do I continue to hold off on fertilizer (as adviced by robin98 since I used MG potting mix w/ cactus mix when I re-potted) if so when is it appropriate to fertilize? Btw I've ordered FOliage pro 936, I'm kinda excited to use it :)

- I recently purchased a cool mist humidifier is this appropriate for the plant, or shld I get the warm mist? My concerns w/ warm mist are molds and might ruin my furnitures.

- Is it ok to water in sips w/ distilled water only because my soil mix seems to retain too much moisture, I worry about root rot.

- looking way ahead come June, thinking of re-potting using 5-1-1 soil mix can it withstand another re-pot? If not, when would be a safe timeto do it?

We've finally broke through the brutal Vegas heat, temp has cooled off now high 60's to high 70's, love our fall weather out here w/c means winter is coming... I'm nervous, I don't know what kind of challenges Mr. Finicky leaf has in store this winter. Any advice, thoughts, warnings, what to expect, proper care for winter etc. will be appreciated. Thank you!!
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
Quick comment: how tall is the white pot? In one picture it looks very much like a five gallon bucket, and in others it looks like a short ceramic or plastic cache pot. Are you checking the soil moisture at the top of the pot or are you using a dowel to check the soil at the bottom? Either way, I'm concerned that the surface of the soil still feels wet, and after rereading your post it sounds like there's more soil in the pot. If the plant was already suffering from overwatering before you added more soil around the root ball, it's only suffering more with even more soil in the pot.

There are ways to deal with this; check out this thread by Al about ballast, including the discussion below his first post. You'll have to copy the URL because my new phone doesn't have the 'insert link' button.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4866858/using-ballast-to-combat-excess-water-retention?n=6
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
That's funny, the URL formatted itself!
robin98
6 years ago
Congrats on the new growth! But it doesn't sound good how wet your soil is staying. I'd be a bit concerned heading towards winter when your plant will use even less water... You ask if it could stand another repot next June : yes, definately. But that's 9 months away and I'm wondering if you need to repot much sooner ie. now, just to get it out of that soil, even though it's not ideal timing.

You need to see if you can manage the water situation or not, to decide if you have to do that. Tilting the pot, using a wick, sitting the pot on towels after watering. Using distilled water so that you can water in sips, for now (better in the long term to have it in a soil you can water properly). If it's still not drying out in another couple weeks then you have a problem!

Get it as much sun as possible, as discussed earlier - this will also use up more water, the process of photosynthesising and growing.

You can start using your FoliagePro at the lowest dose rate (1/4 tsp per gallon) in your watering water, from the next time you water. Fertiliser is not food or medicine and can hinder a plant that is already struggling, so don't be tempted to over-nurture and overdo it. Been there done that! Also too much fertiliser means you'll have to flush the pot more...

How did you get on with the gnats? And checking for scale?
robin98
6 years ago
Also does your pot still just have one central drain hole? If so, tilting it won't help, you need some holes around the edge.
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
I've got a plant in a terracotta pot with a single hole in the middle. The excess water drains out when I set it upright after tilting it.
robin98
6 years ago
I'm not sure how that could work, from my understanding of the physics of it, maybe I'm missing something. A single central hole is fine for a wick though.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Litterbuggy it is a 12" tall w/ a 13" opening plastic pot it came with fm the store I bought it from. I'm using a wood dowel to check moisture but right now It is visibly damp at the top even after 2 wks. Thank you for that link, very informative.

Robin98 I have thought of re-potting with a proper soil mix, you think my plant can withstand another one since I just re-potted a little over 2months ago? Plus the weather has cooled down, do you think It has enough time to recover from a re-pot before winter comes? I forgot to mention the gnats are back I think bec the soil is so moist. I've been very deligent checking for scale thank goodness I don't see any issues on that part. I did drill a few more holes around the edges of the bottom of the pot. I will try to wick it again, I will give it till friday to see if it dries out, but honestly by the looks of it I don't see it drying out in a week. I will update in a couple days if any changes or not, I'm hoping to avoid another re-pot. Thank you both again!
robin98
6 years ago
I would repot it now into a better soil, it's just going to die in winter otherwise, staying that (amazingly) wet.

If you keep the roots moist while you do it and don't try to do a big root prune you should be able to minimise the trauma. If you're quick, it'll hardly know anything has happened!

Please research 511 soil mix on this forum, that's what I'd recommend. Feel free to run your plans past us before you go ahead with any changes
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
6 years ago
FWIW - in most cases where the soil supports 2 or more inches of perched water (PW) and there is a single hole at bottom/center of the pot, tipping the pot will force quite a bit of perched water to exit the central hole. You are correct though, in observing that the centralized hole won't allow quite as much PW to drain as it would if the hole perforated the bottom where it meets the vertical perimeter wall. You can 'see' how it works in the image by comparing A and B while imagining a drain hole in the center of either of the line segments that radiate from the common point at the bottom and are positioned in the sketch at 45* to the horizon. In fact the illustration reveals that, were the hole in the center of the bottom before the pot was tipped, almost ALL of the PWT that CAN escape, HAS escaped. IOW, the line representing the ht of the PWT is so close to intersecting the drain hole that the difference could hardly be noted.

Al
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Thank you Al, I have been reading the forums and I thankful of your advices, although for a novice like me I sometimes have to google first some of the terminologies to get a clearer picture & follow the discussions :) but otherwise very educational, so thank you!

Robin98, I am attaching pictures of the new growth it has sort of opened a bit more today and you can clearly see the browning and the hole, also took a picture of the soil not sure if you can really tell how damp it still is (1st picture at the top I dug about an inch to somehow show the difference of the moisture) I have read about Al's 511 mix, I am going to check out our local store & see what I can find. Keeping fingers crossed.
robin98
6 years ago
Thanks Al I get it now :)

Mamoneigh I'm not surprised the new leaves look like that you need to get the moisture situation under control before you will get better ones. Repot now if you can get a 511 mix together (easier said than done sometimes).

If not, at the very least you can reduce the amount of soil in the pot by using ballast and/or reducing the overall pot size. Less soil will dry out quicker. You should be able to do this with minimal disturbance to the root ball if you're not changing the soil type (this would be a temporary measure to get you through to a better time for a full repot into a better mix)
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Quick question, is garden lime necessary for the 5-1-1 mix, also can I substitute orchid bark, no luck in finding pine bark. Thanks.
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
You can get garden lime (or dolomitic lime) at nurseries, garden centers (including the plant departments of super stores), or places like Home Depot or Lowe's, or supermarkets. If memory serves, garden lime controls for the bark's acidity, which affects soil chemistry and the plant's ability to take up nutrients, so I'd use it unless it doesn't exist where you are.

Size matters when it comes to bark for 5:1:1. The orchid bark I've found is fir bark, which is as good as pine, but it's usually more suitable for gritty mix because most pieces are bigger than 1/8" and it has very little if any fines.

Where have you looked? Have you looked for pine bark fines marketed as mulch or soil conditioner? Lowe's and Home Depot and the like carry big bags of mulch and soil conditioner for under $10. If you'll tell us where you live or at least a nearby city someone might have tips on where to find the good stuff.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
I'm in Las Vegas NV, I've asked the guys st home depot about pine bark fines and they just seemed as confused as I am. Also asked the guy at our local star nursery and they recommend orchid bark as substitute. I did see those big bags of mulch different colors too at home depot but I didn't pay much attention to it. What is the appropriate size of bark for the 5-1-1 mix and how much garden lime do you recommend in the mix?
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
This is what I got and it says 100% processed soft wood bark and I found garden lime as well.
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
Let's see...Post a picture of a handful of the bark spread out on a plate if you can.

Bark for 5:1:1 is dust to 3/8". Most pieces should be between 1/8" and 1/4", and dust should make up about 10-15% of the mix. A few pieces up to 1/2" are okay. You should pick out sapwood and twigs, which are usually light colored and don't break up as easily as the bark. If there's a lot I pick out the big pieces and don't worry too much about splinters. I moisten my mix and let it sit at least overnight, but ideally you'd let it sit for a week or two to give the lime a chance to interact with the other ingredients and to moisten the bark well before using it.

Don't feel bad about being misunderstood. HD staff are pretty clueless, although they generally try to help when firmly but politelyI tell them that I'm making a special highly aerated mix for my plants and act like I know what I'm doing. The same goes for "nurseries" and garden centers, though I've found two in town that are owned by serious plant guys who seem to get the concept and don't roll their eyes at me.

It helps that I've had a lot of jobs where acting like I knew what I was talking about was almost as important as actually knowing anything, which has made me pretty shameless, and I usually know more about gear and equipment and techy stuff about my hobbies than most salespeople because I'm such a geek. Just ask me about ski construction and materials or snow crystal metamorphosis and snowpack structure and how it affects avalanche danger sometimes...
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Yikes, Houzz is slow to upload pics today, so I'll post this as a placeholder and try again later...

Here's something useful by Al about bark:

"For the 5:1:1 mix, I'd prefer no more than a 10% presence of extremely fine (bark) material if I'm using peat. If I eliminate the peat, I think up to 20% is a good guess.

What you see at the top is ideal for the 5:1:1 mix. The other two bark components would be just right in the gritty mix.

The bark at 6 o'clock above is ideal as it is - no screening. The two at 3 and 9 are just a little on the large side, but I probably wouldn't even bother screening it - too much work for too little gain - a compromise."

HTH
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I will upload pics as soon ss Houzz lets me. Still debating if I do a complete re-pot or maybe settle for the ballast or go for smaller pot for now to minimize trauma. i've been reading the forums it seems like most FLF suffer after a re-pot even to the more experienced gardener.
robin98
6 years ago
Actually that's not the case, even though it sounds like it from the disaster stories. I just repotted a benjamina and a lyrata without a hitch. No wilting or dropping leaves. AT ALL. Despite chopping roots.

I'm a bit stumped at some of the spectacular fails people seem to have but can't explain exactly what I'm doing better in this procedure to be able to advise.

I suspect two areas : fine roots are being damaged by drying out and/or overhandling during the repot. Or the care for that first week or two post-repot is being mismanaged.

I've made 511 using orchid bark for the pine bark, indoor plant potting mix for the peat, and coarse pumice for the perlite.

Was going to show you a photo except of course they're not loading...
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
It often seems like people don't water well after repotting, probably because they're used to lightly watering regular potting mix and are afraid of overwatering even in gritty mix.

M, I recommend the ballast because the plant is very weak right now. It might survive a full report but will recover slowly, while pulling the plant, adding the ballast at the bottom, sticking the plant on top of it, and filing in the space between the plant and the sides of the pot is a nice gentle way of giving your ficus the chance to get strong enough to do well after a repot next June.

Here's the thread where Al walked me through the process with my schefflera. I posted an 'after' picture in May, but here's the latest photo.

Oh, right, no photos. Sigh.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Robin98 I am on the fence with full re-pot mainly because of my lack of experience with plants in general, and not sure how much time I can really devote with after care.

Litterbuggy, I happened to have an extra 10" plastic pot I'm thinking of using it with the ballast, will a tad smaller pot makes a
difference than just keeping it in it's current 12" pot and just add ballast? And just to clarify, it is ok to use my existing soil mix if I use a ballast? Or should I use the 5-1-1 mix to fill in the spaces since I have it on hand (basically mixing it with it's existing soil) is this appropriate? Do I water after the whole process, just to note the soil is still damp.

Thank you for that thread very helpful!
I'm shooting for the ballast today, as it seems a lot less complex, wish me luck!
robin98
6 years ago
The aftercare is not time consuming at all, just put in a warm bright spot out of direct sun or drafts, don't let the roots dry out for the first 1-2 weeks while the fine root hairs are regrowing and don't wobble the plant moving it around. Then back to more sun and more drying out of the soil mix between waterings. I think people sometimes have problems because they let the soil mix dry out straightaway.

But I can understand your caution. There is less disturbance if you can lift your plant out keeping the soil around the root ball mostly together, remove the excess loose soil from the bottom of the pot, put ballast in, replace your plant and fill in any gaps/air pockets with a bit of the excess soil you removed. Don't put 511 around the edges as you'll create an interface between two different soils that the moisture won't cross properly. Good luck!
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Thank you! Do I water after the process, I'm hesitant since soil is still damp
robin98
6 years ago
I imagine you'll need to lightly water to settle the soil, but don't drench it. Watch the plant for a couple of days after to check it's not upset then all going well give it more and more sunlight.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
Ok, will do thank you so much!
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
My dilemma was whether to put the plant back in the smaller pot, but Al was right when he said that it would actually do better in the letter pot with ballast. I don't know how much you've read about water movement and PWTs (perched water tables), but what the ballast does is keep the root zone above the PWT.

Say you have a three inch perched water table at the bottom of a pot of water retentive soil that stays saturated long after watering. When you add three inches of ballast to the bottom of the pot, the PWT is now limited to the soil columns that extend from the main soil mass to the bottom. The plants roots can now safely colonize the upper part of the pot without ever being exposed to long periods underwater.

But if you put the plant in the smaller pot, the PWT would still be three inches high, taking up more of the pot, so that the roots will have much less space to grow without periodic die-off from suffocation.

As for which soil to use, you never want to have different soils in different areas of the pot, because one area will absorb more water faster than the other, leaving dry uninhabitable areas that limit the growing area. Because the ballast will keep the roots above the PWT, using water retentive soil is much less of a worry, so use what you've been using.

If you read my thread you'll see that my schefflera had almost no root system at all when I added the ballast. I didn't get to repot this summer, and when I pull the plant out of the pot the root system looks really, really nice.

I can't think of a reason to water sparingly after adding ballast. I'd water normally, carefully monitor the moisture, and water thoroughly as soon as the dowel tells you it's dry. 5:1:1 makes it even more important to water regularly, because it drains well and dries within a few days add opposed to the weeks you've been experiencing. Water slowly, moving the stream of water back and forth over the entire surface of the soil, leave out for a while, then repeat because 5:1:1 doesn't wick water around, so all the particles need to come into contact with water to moisten it evenly.
robin98
6 years ago
Don't think mamoneigh is using 511 yet
litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
6 years ago
She asked about using it to fill things in, so I though maybe it was taking her less time to find the ingredients than it took me.
Mamoneigh (NV, Z9a)
6 years ago
No I didn't use 5-1-1 mix I ended up using the excess soil from the pot. i placed the ballast using an old container/grow pot. I'm glad I decided to do the ballast & didn't wait much longer bec. When I gently pulled the plant out of the pot it was so heavily damp that chunks of wet soil immediately fell off from the bottom half of the root ball tearing off a few fine roots yaiks! It happened so quickly I didn't have a chance support the roots. So I did the best I could re-planting as fast as I could I didn't get the chance to examine the roots closely. Anyways, day 1 post sort if "re-pot" plant is hanging in there, here's hoping for the best.
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
6 years ago
You're getting lots of good help. You can trust what you've read as accurate.

Al
michaeljgonzalez
Original Author
6 years ago
*Update*

Its been about 8 months since I originally posted this thread and planty seams to be bouncing back nicely. The question I have now is what steps if any can be taken to encourage new growth in the naked lower branch areas. Would notching or pinching take care of this? I'm also wanting to repot her now that it's going to be growing season. Is it best to do that first? She's also grown a lower branch that I would like to remove to keep the tree shape. Would it be safe to remove it now that it seams to have a bit more energy?