Evry time someone interferes with a food chain, it will have consequences, no matter the form of action.It is simple a question of supply and demand. BT does not kill tadpoles but they are starving to death because there is no food. Simple as that. And yup, climate change is real.

John, should we just use horticultural oil instead? I usually combine them both.

By happenstance, I dropped the use of neem oil spray this CLM season - because I ran out! I have been using a (supposed) high quality horticultural oil and mix in Bt every other time or so (spray every two to three weeks when temperatures allow). I do not live near a creek or pond.

It is now mid-August and still no evidence of CLM damage, and no scale!. That has never happened before. But - the absence of these pests does not mean my new spraying program is responsible; far too little data. Just like climate change claims, far too little data. I do recall hearing that Lake Michigan was formed by glaciers. So I suppose it is important to have perspective.

Hey John, that is why I use Neptune's Harvest all natural cold pressed fish oil and none of the Neem in my yard. In fact, I use it as a last resort, only if I have mites..

I will use Neem if need be in doors for use on spider mites...

But my preference for indoors pests if need be is a systemic for mealy and any other thing, horticultural Oil, which by the way can be toxic to frogs if left to drip in water, so I make sure to cover my ponds and Insecticide soap most of all...

By frogs disappeared because of cold rains and dampness, so they hopped off.......

Thanks for the heads up...

Hi Mike, I do recall that you have been saying that you use the FE - for quite a few years now. I tried it once and the leaves seemed to yellow - not sure the reason or if was related to the FE - but I never sprayed it on the trees since. Can you share how you mix / ratio and or strength please?

I spray my lawns with FE so I think I could make an adjustment and spray the trees when needed too. PLUS - I love the way the raccoons get crazy / confused in the yard - ha! - George

I have been looking into neem and what I don't like are all the websites that say it is good for everything and totally safe (paraphrase). It is presented as almost a 'miracle' product.

What I have read is that it is safe for beneficials as they are not directly being sprayed and not feeding on the sprayed plant directly. Is this not accurate?

For indoor use, you are unlikely to have beneficials present, anyway.

Right now, I need something for the leaf roller cats on my citrus. I started with handpicking. Then it's gonna be Bt or neem, or both (ideally rotating).

Aside from ag chemicals, also consider they myriad of other substances (and breakdown products) that ends up in our water, in general. Here's an example:

"Most of the triclosan is removed in waste water treatment plants.
However, a U.S. Geological Survey found the antibacterial in nearly 58%
of freshwater streams. What does that mean for the food and soil
irrigated with water from streams? As triclosan breaks down, it can turn
into other harmful compounds. The breakdown of triclosan produces more
effective hormone disruptors."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160525121602.htm

Snake oil is a miracle product. If Neem were that good, I would be using it.

I use just one product, Ultra Fine Horticultural Oil. Kills white fly, aphids, scale, mealy bug, thrips..

Horticultural oil, like neem oil, will kill beneficials when sprayed directly on them.

Thanks Vladimir, soapy sprays will also kill upon contact, and most all sprays kill upon contact, that is why it is important to spray carefully, I will still use horticultural oil.