Would there be good in having stairs directed toward tree, not into it.... but add a bench in front of tree facing the patio. Another place to sit, and in shade.

Another look, and not sure there's a tree -- I though red brick was around one.

Typical rise/tread in the US is 7x11. 7 inches high by 11 inches deep. If you do that, could you subtract a step?

The explanation is confusing, but I think I understand the issue. Instead of having the stairs go straight back, how about having the stairs turn a corner. So there are a couple of steps where the leftmost chair is sitting, running along the house, then the other half of the stairs turns towards the backyard.

There are reason to have decks and other reasons to have patios. You don't give the background of why you're wanting a solution that probably goes against the lay of the land. You can do it, but it will cost you. Maybe you could give some clarification about why you don't want to take an easier way out. Also, the photos don't give a good enough view of the overall setting. If you could take the camera slightly past the tree in the planter and line up with the center of the back wall, then take a series of slightly overlapping photos that pan from left to right, capturing the SURROUNDINGS as well as the area of the work, I think that would help. (This will only be 3 or 4 photos.)

I would just do narrow stairs close to the door you'd use to come out, and a railing across the rest of the deck. Then you don't have to deal with the elevation change, just leveling your patio area enough for whatever surface you are planning.

I don't understand your dilemma either.

But, the house look really good. What paint colors did you use on the body and doors?

More explanation is in order. Looking at your FIRST picture: is the deck complete here? What are the stringer lines on the ground for? You say the steps will come down from the deck (from where it currently ends?) down - to the right - to a patio? What patio? We don't see one. Do you mean you are building a "two-level deck?"

By the way, the right front support leg of your deck is wonky. That's not good.

p.s. I like your house color too. Very crisp-looking.

Okay, sorry for being lame on description! The small deck seen in pics is part of the old one that still needs to be removed. It's there for safety and to help us visualize the upper deck that we will rebuild. The current deck doesn't come out or across to meet the ends of the house on both sides. It will be 8' from the doors to end of the house and 17' across. The planned stairs will start at the end of the deck (where the down spout is in the picture). We made a template to visualize the stairs and it's set at where they would start. We were going to build a lower section of deck that would have been much larger and that would have made the grading/slope challenge far easier. But we would like to figure out a way to have the stairs end on a patio now for two reasons (1) much easier to maintain as the area has a lot of trees and gets a fair amount of sun and (2) we want to be down "in" the yard vs a couple of feet higher on a deck. And, we like the idea of two different materials. So much of the current dirt area in the pics would be the proposed patio. The crape myrtle tree in the brick surround still needs may be removed (it's in the space where the patio will end and it sits a couple feet higher as well). The new lawn will come up to the new patio. All this said, we can raise the lower portion of the patio up a 1' or so and grade down the upper portion (next to the deck) to create a flat surface for the patio, but the stairs are a problem as we want them to be low rise and wide tread for a "soft" walk down to patio, but that takes up too much room. We also don't want stairs to go all the way across deck (17'), but if we only do a smaller section (it would in front of the right/middle french door), that will add a railing across the rest and we don't want to block the view of the yard from the family room. It would also

leave a weird space below on the patio. We are trying to create stairs that do not resemble an amphitheater but be functional, gradual/soft and cool at the same time. I've added more pics as requested.

Lastly, happy to share the colors of the house if you really want them. Body is a custom Kelly-Moore color. Trim and doors are both Benjamin Moore colors.

Thank you for taking the time to comment previously AND for reading this lengthy attempt at further explaining things...

There are only 2 Kelly-Moore stores in AZ and one is not far from me.

That really is a great gray on the house, so if you have the formula, please do post it.

As for your dilemma, I don't see anything that can be done. As was said above, increase the rise of the steps to reduce the number of treads.

I might start the patio about where the steps land, creating a planting bed between it and the deck.

If you wait a few months, that crape myrtle will transplant fairly easily.

I'm not sure I understand either, however, I also love the house color w/the black and white trim. What I did want to add is when you do the patio, make sure to use a cedar or redwood and enhance it w/a good UV Spar Urethane varnish. That color wood looks amazing w/your house colors

would be cool if you could implement some of the features shown in these pics

I'm still not sure I understand the issue. You have made some explanations but when you say "doors" we don't know which set you are talking about (I see 3), and when you say "end of house" we don't know which end you are talking about (I see 3).

Something like this (a little porch/landing instead of a deck) with stairs leading down to a brick/stone surface patio? I really don't get what you mean when you say the steps would "go out too far into the yard." What's in the way that makes them too far? That bricked raised area? So remove it then.

Cape Cod Whole House Renovation · More Info

There are many ways this can be done, here is one of them, people can hang out on the deck overlooking the patio and all the traffic is out of the way. Having stairs to the side they can also provide a landing for the side door and keep the stairs from encroaching onto the patio.

So very impressed with the thoughtful responses from all. Thanks for taking the time to share your take on my scenario! This string has helped us think of our project in new ways...which is what we were hoping for.

I will post the paint colors in a few days-I need to get to the warehouse to find them. We live on a heavily walked street and have had many people ask for the body color and comment on how much they like it. Funny quick story-the color comes from a buddies house that was painted using elastomeric paint. We took the formula and shot it into a standard low sheen. News to us, the tinting process is much different between the two types of paint, so ours came out to be a much richer darker gray...a pleasant surprise.

Thanks again for all of the comments!

I wonder about the utility of such a small deck. Are you creating an area that is big enough to impact the rest of your yard (as you are describing) but too small to be very useful? Why have a small seating area on a small deck when you are going to be building a larger seating area in a patio below it? I think people will naturally gravitate down to the patio anyway and the deck will become a very big porch that is just walked through on the way to the "real" yard below. If it were my yard I would consider eliminating the deck, and create a series of very wide steps in an L shape starting directly at the french doors which lead down to an even bigger patio.

I say this partly out of personal prejudice, I seem to be in the minority in North America because I really don't like decks that I see in most houses. They loom up in the air over the rest of the yard, they become disconnected spaces with the rest of the landscape and create dead areas underneath them that can attract animals. Then people try to cover up that dead area with ugly lattice, and the animals get through that and then they add wire mesh which makes it even uglier. I just prefer to ground my yard on the ground whenever possible.

well, that's a bit tricky when all your doors are already 2-3 feet off the ground!!

Not tricky at all, I guess I didn't explain well enough. No deck at door level, just stairs starting at the doors, stepping down from them to a larger ground level patio. But not narrow, conventional steps like you would find inside a house, make broad, wide steps that allow an easy, relaxed descent from the door level to the yard level. The steps aren't just a passageway from one level to another, they become a design feature on their own that enhances the entire back yard. I think that solves the doors already 2-3 feet off the ground problem, doesn't it?

That way people have easy access from the house directly to the yard, and when they are down on the patio enjoying the yard they don't see a dusty dead area under the deck or a 3 foot wall of lattice, or a 3 foot featureless wall of siding where the deck stops, they see an attractive set of stairs that leads them directly up to the attractive house.

Something that is not clear... is the current design intent that the uppermost level of the deck be like this ...?

Or will it be substantially smaller?

BTW, at this stage, before dwelling too much on steps, you might try temporarily 'forgetting' about them and concentrate on LEVELS of the deck and how you envision them.

Sorry for the tardy reply...was on vacation.

First the colors for the house-

Body (dark gray)-Kelly Moore-Control number 14-3135-0612

French doors (almost black)-Kelly Moore-Control Number-14-3213-0612

Windows (white)-Kelly Moore-Swiss Coffee (stock color)

Window/door trim (light gray/off white)-Benjamin Moore-Brushed Aluminum-#1485

Yes, the uppermost level of deck is intended to be exactly like you have it Yardvaark!

The thinking was/is that the upper deck would be a nice transition from the house to the stairs...mostly because the 1 set of french doors to the right needs to have a landing before stairs as well. I like the way Kentc describes it above, just seems like it is difficult with the lone french door facing another way..

Though having the stairs off the upper level go down to a 2nd level deck would be easier for the slope issue, we would prefer the stairs end up on a patio for a few reasons

1-our last deck rotted faster than normal due in part to all the debri from surrounding oak trees getting stuck in between the planks (and it always looked messy with leaves poking out of the spaces between the planks.

2-to keep the deck nice, it needed to be cleaned and sealed almost yearly. With a 600' deck, railing and two sets of stairs, it was a lot of work and or money if I had someone do it.

3-getting down onto ground level is more private and intimate. Because the old deck was high and the way the yard is situated, people from the from the road in front could see us through the side yard while we were on the deck. Also, we looked down on a side neighbor that is out on his deck a lot and therefore we saw too much of each other (we are trying to grow hedges to screen him out, but they are growing slow under a giant oak tree).

4-i like the idea of blowing a patio quickly or a quick house down if need be.

We intend to use the patio space for a large eating table (12 person), additional seating and potted plants etc. The BBQ area will be to the left of the deck/stairs if you are looking back at the house. This way it is a short walk to the side door the leads into our kitchen. Because the slope from the edge of the proposed upper deck is quite a bit higher than the lower end point of where the patio would meet a new lawn area (currently where the brick pathway surrounded the old deck), we figured we would have to have the low point elevated between 1'-2' which will create a step (or two) down onto the new lawn.

I'm guessing I'm being as clear as mud like I've been on my previous two posts. Again, very much appreciate the comments thus far, it has certainly helped us to understand the project more. I've included pics that hopefully capture the yard better per the Yardvaark's advise above.

First the colors for the house-

Thanks!

oh, Yardvaark asked about any plans we may already have. A buddy of mine was an architect, I drafted these as possible ideas and to help us start visualizing the space..where the table sits in the top one would be the proposed patio area. As shown, it would still be elevated from the where the lawn will meet up with it...thus, a step or two will be needed. We didn't like the two tier patio in the 2nd pic. But, it give you an idea where the BBQ will be located within the space (to the left of the upper table) and it eliminates a section of the stairs and created a slightly larger top deck area....

Hmmmm, the plans I have are in power point and apparently
they contain too much info (characters) to post..any other way for me to post
them on this thread?

Can you scan the relevant portion of the plan? If so you should be able to post the scan as a picture. Another way is to take a picture of the plan with your phone. My usual complaint when this is done is that people don't take the time to square up the print with the camera .... or bad lighting (so white paper looks dark grey) or that they show too much of the plan (can't read it) or too little (can't understand it.) If you could avoid some of those things it would be helpful. But scan is better.

For me, under File, PowerPoint gives an option to Save as Pictures. It will then save the slides as JPEG files that can be shown here by clicking on the Photo button like any other picture.

Kinda small, but it worked.

1. Is the intention to have a table & chairs at the house floor level and at the lower level?
2. Is the grill at the lower level?
3. Will it be a built-in grill or a movable one?
4. Will there be an outdoor kitchen?
5. What level of the house is the indoor kitchen on?

If you're going to have the grill be at the lower level and the indoor kitchen is at the upper level AND you're not going to have an outdoor kitchen, it's a mistake. Even if there is a side door there are still bothersome steps that must be negotiated. Too, the chef is sequestered to an area that is some degree separate from the main party locations. If cooking is at a lower level immediately adjacent to the deck, there is going to be smoke at times that could be unpleasant to anyone on the deck. It seems like your best bet around all these objections is to bump the deck out a bit at the left side and have cooking located there. It could be more or less out of direct view from the inside.

With your objection to wood decking, you might be interested to know that concrete decking is an option. I don't have first-hand experience with constructing it. I've just seen it. Examples. If you use wood, know that you can paint it and the wood will last longer. I think it looks much better, too.

I think your best bet of maintaining an unobstructed view of the yard from inside the house is to line up the steps with the double set of patio doors and have the steps be fairly wide. But a table and chairs at the upper level will more or less negate the effort. There is not a way to avoid railing around any portion of the upper deck that is not steps.

Temporary screening near the deck is one possible way of solving privacy issues while waiting for hedges to grow in.