palimpsest - would you be able to show the segmented arch window you referenced for the dormer on the front? My husband gets home from a business trip this evening and I am going to mob him with all these suggestions and ideas! LOL Also, would shutters look out of place on this type of elevation? Or do I need to go back and re-read the article about simplicity again? Suggestions for colors? I like grays and browns both, so not really locked into one or the other. One of my favorite combinations has always been gray house with white shutters. Would that look right here? House is on a farm in the country, so maybe browns would be more appropriate? Am I overthinking it?

This one is a segmented arch window, in your original plan

Or was it something like this you wanted to see with an actual eyebrow dormer.

I think if you are going to do any segmented arch windows, you will need to repeat them with some sort of intention.

I don't know...just wondered what you were suggesting in the below quote.

"I don't think this house is quite right for any radius but the segmented arch windows (eyebrow) are probably better for this house if you want to use some."

I think it's interesting that the details of the elevation are being worked out separately from the interior. CPArtist I think asked why they were not planned together.

I am of two minds about this and to some extent I think it actually says something positive about your plan.

The good thing that is says to me is that your house is a series of a couple rectangles and that it is Simple enough that the facades and elevations can be worked out separately, to some extent.

I do think they need to be worked on together. However it is so common to string a bunch of rooms together now and end up with a house that has a dozen and a half corners and jigs and jogs and a dozen gables all topped by a very complex roof. The elevation is Completely driven in those houses by the complexities going on in the plan.

The pure classicists wanted to end up with a formal facade and often the facades too precedence over the interior, and the plan was designed to fit within that. And since I live in an urban house, the same with mine. It's a rectangle and it can't really be anything but, since it shares walls with two houses and a front facade aligned with the entire block.

So I think it's good that your house is at least simple enough in the perimeter plan to allow some flexibility as to what it looks like.

You have a combination of

and

And I think you should pick one or the other, not use both.

I think fully arched windows like the first one are problematic in modern interiors and also most suitable to particular forms of architecture (mostly classical). The segmented arch window or eyebrow window is maybe a little more forgiving on the interior with regards of what to do with it.

I assumed the vault would run front to back.

Is this correct?

I should add that you don't have to do any windows except rectangular shaped except I would follow the peaked roof in back with angled windows following the peak.

Yes if the vault is continuous from back to front it's limited as to what you can do with the front gable. It may need to stay exactly how it is unless you change the roof and ceiling a bit once it crosses the side gable peak

I'll also suggest you select an exterior style and use it as a guide, rather than randomly placing shapes and materials.

Not your exact house, but similar. Cross gables on main house mirrored on garage.

vault is only in great room - ceiling inside door is 9 feet

Here I changed the gable and dropped the garage 21" -- don't know how your lot slopes on the right side, but this makes that mass visibly smaller, and you need fewer steps up to the bonus room.

vault is only in great room - ceiling inside door is 9 feet

Why is the front dormer so big if all it does is provide light to the stairs?

And why isn't it centered over the stairs?

Looking in from the back. Not suggesting these big outside windows, just using them to see into the room.

i don't understand how the front dormer will be seen from the entry/stair, but it seems odd not to have it somehow connected with the rear dormer.

One idea is to have internal windows to allow light from the dormer into the great room.

There would be a glass panel over the stairwell to admit light there, but no big opening up to the gable.

I also think the space needs some definition, shown here by beams and columns, and maybe a short wall like shown above.

Ugh...I will have to ask my husband about that window. It made sense when we talked about it originally, but as I look at it now, I don't see how it could work where the ceiling is only 9 feet tall above the steps that would be to the left of the door in the above picture. There wouldn't be anyplace to put a high window there. The space above is more defined than shown. Steps under the window and then a wall to the left of them for the back side of the powder room.

You might consider a large skylight in the porch roof above the 2 windows.

Or a smaller one above the stairs.

Since the gable does not extend front to back, I think you have some things to think about.

If you decide to center something over the stairs, it will not line up with the predominant gable in the back and there could be an odd transition between the two unless it is well thought out.

If you line up with the predominant gable in the back, it will not be centered over the stairs so you have to decide what it is centered over.

It would probably be best to try and design something that was centered over the stairs but did not conflict with the gable at the back. In other words I would probably not have two peaked ceilings that intersect near each other without their peaks aligned.

There is an awful lot of attention paid to what happens at the Floor on a plan, but there is very little attention (and sometimes no attention) paid to what happens to the Ceiling on a plan. This isn't too much of a problem with a flat ceiling, but all sorts of weird things can happen if the ceilings aren't flat.

I picked this up once on a house I was consulting on, and it was clear that no one, even the architect had considered what was going to be happening at one of the ceiling junctions and there were three major possibilities, if left up to the framers, and two of them were pretty awkward. And if it hadn't been figured out specifically ahead of time one of the awkward ones was the most likely to be built.

So you need to sort out how you want the peaked ceiling in the back to resolve with the flat ceiling in the front and what happens around the stairs and entry.

Hmmmm - so assuming like I said that the ceiling over the steps and entryway drops down to 9 foot, what options are there for the transition from cathedral to that. I guess that looking at your picture immediately above, which doesn't show the lowered ceiling, I just picture a wall that drops straight down from peak to the 9 foot level and then goes straight back. I appreciate you mentioning this, but I am trying to think what other options there even would be other than that....?

And I am still confused about how my dormer was supposed to shed light into the steps area. LOL I will ask my husband tonight, because it made sense at the time, but I can't figure out how it was to work with 9 foot ceilings. Glad that was pointed out here!

We would need the second floor floorplan and what the hallway around the stairs looks like to even guess.

Here is the second floor, which just goes over the garage mainly

So where do the switchback stairs go?

Do those stairs go down to the lower level? Is there just some sort of hallway or catwalk type thing over to the garage or is the second set of stairs the only way to get to the 2nd floor over the garage? It looks like the stairs only go Down in the front hall.

There is a 1st floor plan posted way above, and reviewing the renderings will explain where the stairs lead to.

I am just clarifying, because then the front gable/dormer does not make a lot of sense, to me. And there appears to be a windowless storage room adjacent to the great room and that front gable but not connected.

The switchback steps go down to a walkout basement. The steps near the garage go up to the "bonus room"/bedroom. Here is the main level again.

So if I understand correctly:

The first floor ceiling height is 9 feet. I am assuming the top of the peak is 8 feet above that because there are probably 8 foot ceilings above the garage and the back peak, the side gables, and the garage gables all seem to line up.

I am assuming 8 foot ceilings on the lower level, so the landing on stairs is going to be about 4-1/2 feet down from that or so

So 4-1/2 feet down from the first floor is the floor level right under that gable and window.

4-1/2 feet + 9 feet (first floor) plus floor thickness (call it one one foot) plus 8 feet to top of gable. So the top of that gable/dormer as drawn is 22-1/2 feet from the stair landing. So the top of that window might be 21 feet from the landing and the sill of that window might be 17-1/2 feet from the landing.

Do you really want to have to maneuver a 20 foot ladder onto that landing to clean the window or change a light bulb?

I won't be as bad in the great room because there is a lot of floor space, it's 4+ feet shorter, and you aren't trying to put a ladder on stairs or a small landing.

Okay, so my husband is back in town and we discussed the area over the steps. His understanding was that when you walk in the door, it is all cathedral ceiling in that area over the steps and foyer and across the great room, with a wood ceiling and decorative trusses (?) above. I have read that it is not "comfortable" to enter a house directly into a high ceiling like that - that it is best to have a lower ceiling and then walk forward into the high ceiling area. Thoughts?

When you walk into a high cathedral ceiling and then forward into the great room with a cathedral ceiling there is no definition to make one space more "special". Frank Lloyd Wright was a master of using different ceiling heights to denote which rooms were more important. It also gives the feeling of the room being grander.

Stairs that descend from the main level are generally not very attractive. You see steps going down, and a railing of some sort.

I'd consider moving them elsewhere.

Combining them with the stairs going above the garage (they would need to move too) might work.

If you walked into a perfectly rectangular vaulted space that was like the child's drawing of a house with a peaked roof, or the vaulted rooms created by Hugh Newell Jacobsen I would say ok.

And I think this is what your husband is anticipating.

But if I understand the drawings your space isnt quite that way. I does explain why the front peak isnt centered over the stairs though, because it's lined up with the back.

But as drawn on the front it appears that the front peak may not be perfectly flush with the first floor front wall of the house? It appears slightly set back even taking the porch roof into account? If so what happens underneath that inside the house?

Second, there is a powder room in the corner of the vaulted space and that takes an asymmetrical bite out of the room in a way that I think will play out awkwardly with how it relates to the vaulted ceiling.

Everyone is tiptoeing around telling you to just start over with someone with a clue. As painful as that sounds, a lanced boil is a much better option that attempting to deal with the systemic infection it introduces if left to fester.

Honestly, I have to agree with Sophie. Even looking at your plans I see so many things that could be better. I know it's hard to hear and believe me when I posted my first plans, I hated hearing all the negative comments, even though I knew they were correct.

However, listening to them and working them through with the help of the architects on this forum, led me to the beautiful home I'm now building.

Yes, palimpsest - you are right, and we talked to the drafter today about that very thing.

What do you think about this.......?

My husband had an unusual idea to deal with this that we are tossing around. What if you walk in the door and there is a 9 ft ceiling across from the bathroom, that goes across the foyer and steps and the area above the ceiling is a little loft that looks down onto the great room? There would still be the window above like you show (the front dormer), which would light the lofted area, and the cathedral ceiling and scissor trusses would still be across the whole area (from very front of house to the back). The loft area would be mostly for looks and as a unique feature, and I am not sure that it would be accessible except if a ladder replaced the area where we have a coat closet. He likes the idea; I am having a hard time picturing it and justifying the extra expense. I am leaning toward just a 9 foot ceiling inside the door, with the cathedral being in just the great room itself. My SIL and BIL have a top floor in their beautiful 4 story beach house that is only accessible by a straight up and down ladder and that is where he got that idea I think.

Anyway, thoughts appreciated on this idea.

Sophie - Thanks for chiming in. Are you suggesting starting over with the entire plan or just the elevations? When I posted the floorplan asking for thoughts a while back, the feedback was generally good. I guess I am not getting the same vibe as you are from the responses if you are saying the whole plan is a nasty "boil."

Can you post to the thread about the layout?

Could you reposition the stairs opposite the powder room to get the door centered under the peak and the stairs balancing the powder room in some sort of way that made a balanced if not symmetrical elevation? This is messy and distorted but something like this?

So in this example, are you imagining a 9 foot ceiling right inside the door, and then the cathedral ceiling begins at the end of the powder room wall and edge of steps? That is how it looks, and I am trying to picture it.

Yes, and no upper window.

If you will look back to to image withe the internal windows, that may help with visualizing the loft Idea.

That image also shows -- or attempts to show the vault starting at the great room boundary, not the powder room wall.

PPF - yes, I have looked at that several times to imagine what it would look like. (Thanks again for posting it - I am a visual person, so seeing pictures like that helps me a lot). Do you think the loft is a crazy idea, or does it seem feasible? If it is going to add $5k to the cost or something, not worth it to me, but my husband really likes the idea (probably because it was his - LOL)

I was going to suggest a room up there when I did that rendering. It could be accessed through the attic via the rooms over the garage.

Awesome - thanks for taking time to make a visual for that! I am not sure there would be a way from the room over the garage to get to this; I will have to give that some more thought......

Like cpartist said -- the ceiling defines the space.

PPF - I have a question about something in the pic you put above about "defining" the space. Is it advisable to have posts (columns? not sure what they are called) like you show to define the space further? We have that random post between the great room and kitchen that may be very expensive to get rid of, and I am thinking that more posts would make it stand out less, but I am not sure if I would like the look of multiple posts throughout the area like that.

The columns are personal preference. I like interior architecture, and defining spaces without using walls.

It is fairly common when you have a single structural column to pare it with a non structural one for balance, unless the single one is located where it seems natural.

Yours looks like it is not at a corner of anything.

I don't understand why you need it in that specific location. If it were moved about 4' towards the powder room it would be at the corner of the great room and start of the vault.

I don't think it does need to be right there exactly.

You could arched, or flat top openings.