If LED were a rope you would give your citrus enough light to pull it out of a deep dark hole. I think all the points above have merit but they are just looking at it from a different angle. Most northern citrus indoors are deprived of light and the more the better if your goal is to actively grow during the winter months, but 24/7 light is not good either. Two interesting articles I found researching this subject https://www.cropking.com/blog/light-greenhouse-how-much-enough https://www.gardenista.com/posts/13-things-nobody-tells-you-grow-indoor-citrus-trees-lemon-lime/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20citrus%20trees%20can%20have%20too%20much%20light.,a%20vegetative%20state.%E2%80%9D%20Think%20of%20them%20as%20sleep-deprived. The ideal for Cannabis is suppose to be 12/12 flower and 18/6 veg. Looking for ideal ratios for Citrus. My suggestion is if a citrus tree is brought indoors and you are using a 12/12 schedule and the tree is dropping leaves, particularly when the lights are turned off than I would start to increase the length of light. Keep an eye on leaf temperature for signs that the plant is getting stressed. Unfortunately comparing one persons light to another's light setup is like comparing apples to bananas. The hours of sunlight in the wintertime in zone 8 or 9 is very different than the amount and quality sunlight in zone 4-6 and it depends on the month. When you read articles on citrus you really have to parse the information and weigh and measure objectively because their situation may not be the same as your situation.

Wow Sammie, that's a great little site! Lots of good ideas there. It's so hard to decide what to do, so I just started digging... I'm 1/2 way done with my 2nd garden bed flanking the front walk. It's not in the budget right now to replace the walkway. I don't think I'd like a strictly period 50's garden, seems fairly stark. And I don't like junipers much. :) We do want to paint the house this year - isn't bright teal a 50's colour? ;) To respond to an earlier email, there is no patio or deck out the left side, just a strip of land between mine & my neighbour's house. Currently just lawn and some daffodils, and a big hole that my neighbour keeps promising to fill in (from where they put in a basement suite stairwell). We do have a great big deck out back, it's accessed through a window from inside the house! Kind of strange, but luckily it does have stairs going down to the back yard so we don't only have to climb thru the window. We use the deck a lot, and I have lots of plants in pots there (carnations, forget-me-nots, catnip, mint, sweetpeas). One day when I can afford it, or when the current deck falls apart, whatever comes first, I will lower the deck so we can just walk straight out. That would also make it closer down to the back yard, currently we don't go into the back yard too much except to go to the veggie garden. I also have fantasies of putting a small patio/deck on the roof! It only snows about once a year in Victoria, and it only lasts for a couple days at most. People still talk about "the blizzard of '96" where it we ended up with about a metre of snow - I believe the worst snowfall in this area since 1916? People in the interior of Canada (ie Winnipeg or Calgary) laughed at us :) The city was totally shut down for several days. Anyhoo, thanks so much guys for all your input! I have lots of good ideas now and it's been so fun reading all your replies. I like Sammie's idea of the large paving stones w/4' gaps, and Annie I would also love to get a kidney-shaped *something* in there, but a) don't need a pool and b) don't like floating flowerbeds... maybe I can paint shapes on my mailbox. ;) Thanks everyone! :) Amy

Good Morning! I am back from the deep south and glad to see that you guys partied hearty without me! LOL Raeanne - Thanks for holding up the birthday traditions while I was gone. (If you want lessons in GIF 101, I can help. LOL) NHSuzanne - Those pictures are gorgeous! I too want to know what kind of camera you have. DH told me that while we were gone the weather turned cold up north. It is back to being hot and humid now though! BJ - So glad to hear that all went well and that you are up and around. (We never doubted for a second that you would come through with flying colors.) Jen - I agree that cleaning closets can be cathartic, but I hope you got to do some other fun things too. Dee's package sounded like fun. She is a great birthday partner! Tikanas - I hope you got to read your birthday wishes, even if you can't post. Email someone in the group and update us on your life. Inquiring minds want to know. Amy - I went to Lafayete, LA to visit my DD for a week, but thanks for missing me. I am glad to hear that you are still painting. I treasure my picture from you and look at it daily. Besh - I too love Heavenly from VS. My DD turned me onto it. I usually buy her some for her birthday and Christmas, but she said she has had to stop wearing scented lotions and sprays because of the bugs in LA. Donna - WTG with WWatchers. Your renovations sound wonderful. Any before and after pictures to show us?? Gretchen - What can I say? What a nice surprise to log on and see a post from you. I thought for a second you had moved to California, since you are now calgret, but I see you are still in Chicago. Please keep posting, we missed you. Patti - I hope you reached Dallas ok. My first Houston experience was WET! On the way to LA, it poured in Houston on my layover and my luggage got soaked. They must have left it out in the open at some point. I had to wash all my clothes when I got to DD's apartment. But my flights weren't delayed, so I got out on time and my return flight was uneventful. I met a really nice lady on my first layover and it turned out we had the same birthday. We chatted and tried not to notice the wind and rain outside! LOL Have with your DGD!!! Magic Kitty - Haven't seen a post from you lately. How are you holding up in the FL heat? DeeMarie - I hope you are having wonderful weather and enjoying every minute of your cruise. And speaking a enjoying every minute, that is exactly what I did in LA. Despite the heat and humidity, DD and I had a wonderful time. We explored the swamps, two plantations homes, went searcing for alligators, ate seafood, sampled Cajun cuisine and music and just spent some Mother/daughter time. The week went fast but I hope to be able to visit her again before they transfer out of the area. I will post a few pictures in the album when I get a chance. Now I have one more trip over Labor Day weekend and then I start back to school on 9/4. Part of me is looking forward to a paycheck, but part of me doesn't want the summer to end! Hi to anyone I missed. Maddie - where are you? Kate - are you sill with us? Joanne - Come back! John - We need you to check in brother! Gotta finish up some laundry and catch up on the mail and bills! UGH. Later, Marci

I'd like to attach a name to an apple cultivar on my property -- near San Diego. The tree appears to have been planted around 1990-2000. I'm assuming it's probably a low chill cultivar, and it appears to be similar to Beverly Hills (unpatented), Gordon (USPP4144) , and Pettingill (USPP1352). I've compared my description of it to the patent filings for Gordon and Pettingill. Here's my description: Branches: smoke grey (ridgeway), with lighter patching. Branches are smooth, with no sheen (not glossy), new growth tomentose. Lenticels, not conspicuous. Leaf: Avg length 5.5",Avg width 2.5", oval to ovate shape, slightly acuminate apex, obtuse to slight cuniate base, coarsely serrate on mature leaves, upper surface color RHS 139A (dark green) and glabrous, Lower color RHS 138B (light green) and tomentose; no waviness to leaf margin. Petiole length 2.25" with Acajou Red (Ridgway) at attachment. Flowers: color vivid red (RHS 52A), before opening fading to white at petal fall. Flowering period early April to Early June. Appears to be a partial tip bearer, with more spurs at ends of branches. Flowers opening alongside ripening fruit. Fruit: not large. Axial diameter not more than 2.75" and about as wide. Ripens late june - early august, with fruit ripening at different times. Stem length 1", unripe fruit color RHS 145C (green). Develops reddish striping at fruit base, with stripping becoming less defined with ripening, turning into a blush on sun facing side covering approx 50% of surface. Undercolor remains green. Apex has round protuberances at the base of each sepal. The long bloom period and staggered ripening seem very much like the Gordon apple, however the fruits are nowhere the 4-5" width described for Gordon. Also I have not observed any glossiness to the branches as described in the patents for Gordon and Pettingill. From descriptions of Beverly Hills it appears to have a nearly blackish bark color, which I have also not observed. I'd appreciate any help trying to ID this apple. The rootstock of this tree (appears to be MM111) suckered a fair amount earlier this year. I harvested the suckers out of this inadvertent stool bed and now have a dozen trees ready for bud grafting -- I'd like to figure out whether the unknown variety is worth budding.