Yeah ... Fancy Bloomers can't stay stocked ...

... and, perhaps, it's our responsibility (experienced growers) to steer newcomers to trusted and traditional sources, ... as opposed to potential lightweights on ebay ...

For example ... yesterday I almost got into a bidding war on ebay (I finally took myself out of the bidding) ... for a plant that appears to be reasonably accessible from a traditional online grower at half the expense.

I just didn't look there first ...

^^^Been there and done that...yes, that's what I was kinda hinting at, Aegis.

Except for a few show purchases, I haven't contributed to the success of our commercial growers. But I haven't done much on Ebay either. Most of my varieties come from swaps, club plant exchanges, and round robins. I've picked up some choice varieties basically for the cost of postage. Of course, there are a few on my wish list. . . the ones Violet Barn and the like don't carry. Someday, when I find room, I'll be on the hunt!

Valid points made here. I must claim ignorance when it comes to purchasing violets online. For the longest time I looked at the original listing, read it and figured I could either afford the violet or the shipping but not both. AND I wanted more than one.

At this point, everyone may laugh and call me stupid for not clicking on it and reading further. Go ahead,,,it's ok,,,I did!

Now to continue. Imagine my absolute SHOCK when I found out that the S&H for the subsequent violets/leaves I buy would only be $1.00 each or less depending on the particular grower I would choose!!!! Then I started paying attention to what everyone in the forum was saying about the service from this company, that company and I realized that I was looking up one of the good companies mentioned here!!!! Imagine that!!!!

I made up an order. Only on paper. I needed to be sure these were what I really wanted. THEN I didn't follow through because I realized I forgot someone was gifting me with some leaves. Thought I would let the dust settle a little so I know what I was getting. But I DO intend to follow thru probably this fall!

Now, this will be my first experience to order from one of the select few growers that have been favorably noted in this forum. A "toe in the water" so to speak. Bloomlovers, Hyn Patty, Violet Barn, Fancybloomers, someone named Tina (?), PJ, and Jack's. I think there were one or two more but I can't remember off hand and I am not near my list. (yep, on paper!) These are the names I have heard here.

The point of this long story is,,,,,ignorance is NOT bliss all the time. And like Terri I get most of my violets the same way she does. Trade, swap etc. Have never done a round robin. It was my fault I didn't fully read all of the terms and conditions and realize it didn't cost all that much to order more than one! And yes, these particular reputable growers were on ebay. But I imagine they also have a separate website I can go to which I will do when I am ready to order.

Mea Culpa!!!!

But I agree with Aegis about promoting the good reputable growers and educating people about them. And I do agree we must still comparison shop WITHIN the circle of proven growers. Maybe if the "others" don't get the business they will improve and fall in line???? Who knows. But without the continued mention of the good growers in this forum,,,,I would still be pretty ignorant!!!! And for the "others" Caveat Emptor!!!! <:( Rosie

PS. Gosh I hope some of this made sense. Sometimes I think I am the only one who knows what I actually mean!

Tina (Drouin) is the proprietor of Bloomlovers.

Great operation ...

Got it,,thanks Aegis! I will now put her name with Bloomlovers! Whew,,got a lot to learn! Rosie

Two more good ebay vendors are "bluemountainviolets" and "itsdeb111". I have never purchased from ebay, but they have been recommended by more than one person from another forum, privately. (The other forum does not allow selling or promotion of businesses. ) I think the smaller ebay sellers are essential for keeping the older varieties around and in circulation, but if a plant is sold by a large vendor like Lyon's, VioletBarn, Bloomlovers, I feel as a community we should buy there first. The big guys do the work to create new varieties so we should reward them. Also, I have no fear about pests or disease when I order from Lyon's or VioletBarn.

Since I moved to growing in the sun I realized I should only trade and beg leaves because so many plants don't grow well in the sun. I cannot afford to buy 10 plants to keep one! (Please see my wish list if you want to trade ;)

Over the years, I have had success with plants from ...

Angelwings (ebay)

Bloomlovers (website/ebay)

Bloomin' Jungle (ebay)

Bluebird's (out-of -business)

Blue Ridge Country Baskets (ebay)

CVVioletry (ebay)

Fancy Bloomers

Jack's Violets (ebay)

Lyndon Lyon

PJ's Violets (ebay)

Selective Gardener

Violet Barn

Thanks Aegis, I have written these down for future reference. Rosie

I bought from almost all the vendors on your list and had no complaints. I make a long list of items for Lyndon Lyon after reading this topic. I plan to buy from there in the near future. Thanks Aegis.

I also recommend olehyurchyshy0 on eBay. He/She is in Canada. The plants are big, and I always got an extra, very nice ones, such as King's Ransom. It takes a week to get here. But there is no tracking number. You need to check your mail if you don't want the plants sitting in the mailbox for more than a few hours.

Quite a list Aegis! I've only ordered from a few on your list. If anyone is interested in vintage violets, (and others,) I would recommend Jo's Violets. I have only purchased leaves. Prices and shipping are quite reasonable.

One note about Lyndon Lyon. They will often substitute to the dismay of many buyers. I understand this is more often the case with plants than leaves. Their inventory isn't up to date like the Violet Barn.

Some specifics about the above-listed vendors ...

Bloomlovers sells reasonably priced plugs and leaves.

Bloomin' Jungle sells some especially unique starter plants.

Blue Ridge Country Baskets sells a number of chimera plants (plus others).

CVVioletry is a particularly low-cost supplier with some nice offerings.

Fancy Bloomers supplies plants at various stages of development ... and leaves.

Jack's Violets sells starter plants at reasonable prices.

Lyndon Lyon sells starter plants and leaves, at fairly reasonable prices.

PJ's Violets sells fully mature plants and leaves.

Selective Gardener sells fully mature plants, plugs, and leaves.

Violet Barn sells starter plants at fairly reasonable prices.

I always specify ... "No substitutions" ... for my orders now.

Still taking notes!!! Thanks everyone! Rosie

I want to publicly protest this thread. It caused me to go to Ebay, where I hadn't bought any plants for at least two years and bid on two AVs. Someone please go and win the bid from me, before my time is up at 7 or so tonight.

Umm, and yes, thanks for the list...it started this :)

ROFLMBO!!!! hahahahahahaha oh geeze dbarron,,,,that is too funny!!!!! Oops, I mean so sorry!!!!! lololololololol

Ha,Haaa! I thought I might stir up some action!!

Terri,,,,too funny!!!!! You are sooooo bad!!!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Rosie

Oh you evil people, you let me win :( My windows are full..lol.

I guess K's Moscato Berry Splash is coming to a windowsill near me. Of course after I won that..I had to find one more to reduce the % of shipping cost :( It's a pretty bicolor-purple and white compact std.

So...a Rob's Fuddy Duddy is coming with it. It was hard for me to find a second...I'm picky...and FD wasn't quite what I wanted, but was most acceptable offering. FD is a solid purple mini.

My comment is that Ebay has been around for a good while. It's not a new thing. It's been booming since 1995. And in more than two decades they haven't managed to put the commercial sellers out of business yet so I wouldn't worry about it. And I can tell you several good reasons why. A LOT of people don't use Ebay. I for one generally do not. I do order about once a year from LL and VB. I also sell on Etsy and most of my buyers also order from LL and VB.

One reason is simply that they often get permission to sell new hybrids that nobody else has access to yet. They also make their own new hybrids all of the time. So at least for a while, they are very often the ONLY sources for those hybrids. Take LL for example, making a deal with Pavel Enikeev, Dale Martins, and other strep breeders. Lyndon Lyon has become the only commercial vendor to carry their hybrids and their prices are far below what the same new hybrids sell for on Ebay, if one did slip out through another source. Or they get a hold of rare African violets like 'Ann' and offer LEAVES for only $3, instead of to the highest bidder. Trust me, they are in no danger of going out of business on account of Ebay. They sold out of every 'Ann' leaf they had in amazingly short time. No surprise there.

Also, both VB and LL also sell bulk plants wholesale. They ship huge shipments of of plants to retail outlets like Optimara does. Not on the same scale mind you, but a huge quantity of their sales go to fill nurseries and greenhouses all over the country. Sure individuals might go to Ebay or Etsy or some friend of a few plants but anyone who wants a dependable source to order 10 or 100 of the same plants at a time has to go to the commercial sellers who can produce quantity -and- consistent quality. Most hobby sellers can't and don't have that kind of space.

This is a concern that has been hashed and rehashed many times over the years. I think you can relax on that account and just buy where you want to.

The real concern is more that most of our African Violet collectors are dying off and fewer and fewer people are growing them. That is a far more serious concern - fewer buyers, not because of Ebay, etc, but because there are far fewer young people coming into the hobby than when the Baby Boomers made African Violets a big thing. The AVSA for example is seriously strugging to maintain enough membership to stay a float. They aren't nearly as well organized as the Gesneriad Society with their trust funds, so it's a very real possibility that in the not distant future the AVSA may cease to exist. Then what is that going to do to the hobby?

So the real problem isn't small time sellers IMO. I'm one of those small time sellers myself and I can assure you that it's a HUGE amount of work for not much money. And unless I can lay hands to something really hard to get, most people would rather buy from LL or VB and know they can get replacements if the plants don't show up in good shape, or don't bloom true, or get lost in the mail. Most small sellers have a lot harder time ensuring those problems are covered to the buyer's happy satisfaction. Sure I could refund the cost of the plants but I don't have enough copies on hand to replace them and pay shipping all over again. But a big business can do that far more easily and that insures buyer confidence that can't be easily replaced. They have a solid long term reputation and have earned it. So people like me might sell a few plants on the side but I and most people I know still order from VB and LL.

Hyn Patty ....

After reading your post, the following thought occurred to me ...

I recently considered rejoining the AVSA, ... but balked at the $35.00/year membership fee (thinking ... whi I could get 3-4 new plants for that money).

I am a former member of AVSA (about 20 years ago), ... and I considered the organization kind of old and fuddy-duddy at that time.

So, I began to think ... what do today's young people respond to ?

I am assured that there are people born into each generation ... who have a passion to grow ...

The thought that came to my mind was ... "app".

Today's young people will drop $35.00 for an "app" in a heartbeat.

Also, the magazine should be available online. More people and personalities (with selfies) should be featured, and there should be online contests for "best grown AV", etc.

The AVSA could, really use a re-branding ... which could be implemented by some young and energetic marketing team.

Do you know if the ASVA has any plans for such ?

I do not know the answer to that question but I do know that things like First Class are now available to use with your phone so it's likely they are beginning to become aware. I also think reaching out and working with school science teachers, 4-H programs, and scout groups to promote programs for plant propagation is a huge area they could be utilizing to make young people aware and draw them in. The 'old lady' feel to AV's is a very real image and certainly needs a make over. I would think they would love to hear from someone like you to help give them ideas to chew on!

The Gesneriad Society is really breaking ground with their webinars to draw people in. It may well be the future that will replace the AVSA. A lot of it has to do with financial structure. The GS has set up funding to ensure long term viability that has little to do with annual membership dues, where as the AVSA's primary income I'm told depends on it. So that too needs to be rethought. Unfortunately the GS is still scattered with too few local groups per state but hopefully it will continue to grow and spread to become more accessable.

Like the National Geographic Society, perhaps the AVSA needs to be appealing to it's aging members to consider donating funds from their estates if the organization is important to them, and make attempts to entice not just their children but grand children to take some interest in their busy lives for the simple enjoyment of these plants. Because who else will care about their collections when the older members pass away?

This is something my local AVSA group has been talking about lately. Where my local club used to have nearly 100 active members in Atlanta area, there are now less than 20 who participate. They are trying hard to recruit and Atlanta is a big city. Most of the members are elderly with only a few of us who are younger. It has members from both organizations lumped together so we do get a very rich mix of plants at our shows and meetings, far more than only AV's. Lots of streps, kohlerias, sinningia, episcia, primulina, etc.

Adding my two cents again! I also don't belong to the AVSA although I did in the past. The main reason is that I don't really need the information in the magazine. Most of my info is obtained from forums and especially FaceBook which has groups devoted to all aspects of AV growing: hybridizing, vintage, chimeras, beginning growing, species, etc. I would estimate that nearly 90% of the people who write for the magazine have a FB presence so the magazine is just excess.

I should support the society simply because it is the official AV organization and it does hold a national convention. So, I will probably rejoin for those reasons. However, I am a many years member of the Gesneriad society. I wouldn't dream of dropping that membership. As Hyn Patty states its a great group with much to offer.

The subject of revitalizing the AVSA has been the topic of more than one forum discussion and has led to anger and frustration in some cases when suggestions sent to the society were ignored. Some feel the people in charge are old school and don't wish to adopt new measures. Or, perhaps there is no money. I don't know the answers.

As far as club decline as Hyn Patty mentioned, I wonder how much of that is due to people just being too busy? The internet also has had a great impact. Perhaps for the same reason I don't feel the need for AVSA, others don't feel the need to participate in an actual club. Our group is also looking into ways to attract new members. Most in our club grow other gesneriads along with violets so perhaps that will help.

Terri

Our local AV chapter is dead. It used to be really active, oh..20 years ago. I've been approached to help revive it, but I don't believe I have the energy myself, or feel the need. I never did like recruiting members.

I've done my time with plant clubs before. So, maybe I'm typical, limited time, and the only benefit is a bit of plant trading and some camaraderie. It's easier to do things online at my own timing whim, versus set meetings,etc.

Lots of organizations are becoming virtual these days. If people get to know each other online, they might be more apt to meet in person.

But I agree that I didn't find the magazine particularly useful, and honestly, given that much of African Violet appreciation is visual, I thought that the photography could have been brighter.

I think that it could work if the emphasis was more on facilitating the association of people who love African Violets, rather than on the Violets themselves ...

I don't belong to AVSA but I did sign on with a local AV Club. I had my first meeting in April right after the Ann Arbor Show and Sale and we meet once a month and so far I have enjoyed every minute of it. As soon as I get in my truck to go home after the meeting I start counting the days til the next one! In fact they are NOT having a July meeting and I just don't know how I will make it thru until August!!!!! lol But seriously,,,,,I look forward to the meetings. Sometimes some things on the agenda don't pertain to me (eyes sort of glaze over) but that doesn't last long. Our group comes up with interesting stuff.

There is a picnic this month (fell right on my birthday) and it involves I think 2 or 3 other AV Clubs. I am not going. It is a distance away and I don't think I am comfortable enough yet for something like that. I don't mind the dish to pass or bring a lawn chair. But that is a lot of people I don't know. Silly isn't it.

And of course they are a big presence at the Ann Arbor Show and Sale in the spring and fall! Now of course I go to those! This will be the first fall one I go to. Will let you know what goodies I get!!!!!

Our AV Club combines AV's and Gesneriads. I am glad of that because I think the two overlap considerably. They have even overlapped in this forum at times and I think that is wonderful, they do kind of go hand in hand.

I wish only wish there were other groups I could join, like Needlework/Sewing, Dollmaking/Collecting etc groups for me to meet within driving distance!

So I am grateful and happy for what I have. Now if I could only find local groups for the above mentioned other hobbies of mine!!!! Rosie

Rosie, I love your enthusiasm!! Our club needs more people like you. I too look forward to meetings and feel kinda bummed that I will be missing the next one especially since we are meeting for the first time in a horticultural center. It will be my first miss since our initial start-up. But, I should be extra fired up for the next one!

Terri

Rosie's enthusiasm is great! I really love it. I don't want to derail the original thread too much. My apologies for that. I don't even care if people agree with my thoughts, it's good to think about these things, discuss. I certainly do not wish to see commercial sellers like LL and VB go away, or online sellers like BloomLovers who are just as legitimate, or even the young kid who suddenly realized she can produce some violets to sell on Ebay to scrape up some extra money for college.

My concern, specific groups aside, is the dwindling number of growers and collectors in general. So I think Ebay and other online sources are actually healthy, helpful to spread awareness and availability of these plants we enjoy, and groups like this one or Facebook, are very supportive to help each other to learn many more ways to grow and enjoy, and share this love of these plants. I think this is great. How better to preserve these things than to find somebody on Ebay or Esty who decided to offer leaves or babies of /their/ grandmother's long forgotten vintage hybrid that nobody remembers? ;)

Food for thought, Patty and I think it a good expansion on my earlier concern.

I just came from a Gesneriad Convention in Omaha. We have a new star in a hybridizing world. Brandon Erikson from Omaha got the BIS for his new Kohleria Bud's Little Gollum. He has several new Kohlerias and multitude of amazing mini Sinningias. Dale Martens got some absolutely outstanding new Sinningias as well a new Streptocarpus hybrids small - compact and large.

We have a presentation by Jeff Jackson - a Canadian hybridizer of Imp's - he works with mini's , semi mini's and his main interest is wasps. Very unusual well behaving plants - without a big bustle on the leaves - so you can actually grow a perfect rosette - instead of unruly tangle.

Anyway - I am surprised that the whole thread started with bashing eBay sellers. The more sellers - the better. Nobody can keep ALL the violets in a shop - and if we limit ourselves to the sellers with their own website and fixed price - the multitude of hybrids will go to the violet heaven never to be seen again.

I tell you - nobody gets rich from selling AVs - except may be mass producers as Holtkamps. But they do their own thing industrially churning a limited amount of their own Optimaras every year - so anybody can buy a plant and give it to his or her Mother as a Mother's day present. God bless - and all the success to them. What you can buy in a grocery store - is not going to bring bid bids on eBay.

The membership in AVSA is shrinking, the members become older, the vendors become older - and there won't be anybody to replace Violet Barn or Lyndon Lyon owners when they decide to retire. Anybody who is less than 60 is considered to be a youngster in plant societies.

If people buy eBay plants for more than they are worth - it is like gambling - they get carried away with bidding. The initial price is usually comparable with the on-land vendors and shipping is sometimes cheaper. My suggestion - if you want this variety - do your research, see if somebody else is selling it - and wait. Usually the same ebay vendor has lets say 5 of them coming - first time it will go high - but if you check on it it for several weeks - you will get it for listing price. If you look at the other items of the same seller - he probably has 50 of them listed - 10 will go higher - 10 will go slightly above listing price, 10 will sell for the minimum - and 20 probably won't sell at all. So - at the end - the ebay seller is not making a bundle. And each of these plants - sold and unsold - requires light, soil, fertilizer and lots of work.

I think if the buyer is not in a fever to get it today - and plans ahead - he can get the best price on anything he wants.

BTW - "Ann" is no worth the trouble. It is very variegated - and it grows unbelievably slowly, it will not do well for windowsill growers. Doesn't matter - if you got it for $50 or for $5 - when it croaks - it croaks. I got a leaf in Albuquerque for a reasonable price - and now I have a couple of starters with 4 leaves each. May be in a year or 2 I will see a blossom.

Irina, an evil ebay seller

Irina, I'm sorry if you thought I was bashing EBay sellers when I started this thread. That wasn't my intention and I offer my apologies to you and anybody else whose toes I might have stepped on. I was only wondering if private sellers will eventually have a negative impact upon our commercial growers. Perhaps, my wording wasn't the best.

No worry.

As far as I see - very soon we do not have any commercials left - this is is a dying out business. As a home part time business - it can support the hobby - but not many ebay sellers produce consistently good plants, customer service, packing and shipping and provide correctly named healthy plants. So there is a lot of turnover. New people come every year - but do not stay. The top of the business -it is Dave Dick - Bluemountainviolets. Fantastic plants, immaculate shipping, he tests every variety for the virus... and his plants go for very good money even if there will be 5 sellers with the same variety at the same time - and their plants will be sitting and nobody will bid. On the other side - there will be sellers - that sell plants with - excuse me - stolen photos, and who knows what they have in a sense of virus and bugs and even if it is it is even the variety they advertise. So - the list of the proven sellers is a way to go.

If you want a hybrid by Paul Sorano - get it in LLG, If you want Ma's or Rob's - get them in a Violet Barn. But they also cannot carry all their old hybrids - because the customers always want new.

I would definitely buy Ozark Sinningias from their hybridizer David Harris - he is a meticulous guy and he will send you exactly what you need propagated from his choice stock. Plus he has a good collection of vintage Sinningias that are hard to find.

Often hybridizers love to hybridize - not to sell.

Regarding an infringement of the rights of the hybidizer. If you want to patent your plant so nobody will have the right to sell it - fine, It will cost you 10K. So some of Optimaras are patented. But home hybridizers are usually happy to have their plants widely grown and distributed. It means their plants are good.

hmmmm, about what Irina just said. If you want a specific hybrid by Sorano to to the source,,,,Ozark Sinningias--D Harris. etc. And that does make sense. But here is what I think, there is room for everyone.

People will make choices about who to buy from based on their own reasons. Some good (wise choices) and some not so good (impulse buys, "I want it now syndrome"). That makes room for all sellers, commercial and cottage industries.

Will the big names (Lyon, Tinari, etc) eventually retire and never be heard from again? Maybe,,,but just maybe one of the smaller growers will evolve to be a good commercial grower to take their place. It could happen.

I don't think violets will die out. Here's why (in my pea brain), ceramic/porcelain stores are now a thing of the past and they used to be on every corner, but let me tell you those of us who still love to do it have their own kilns, paints, brushes, molds and supplies of all kinds in our basements!!!! There are still a few suppliers but the "underground movement" is alive and well.

Ebb and flow I guess is the point I am trying to make. Everything old is new again. We are just changing how we do it. When there was no internet,,,we tramped to the greenhouse. Now with the internet, we pour another cup of coffee and shop. I think as long as people buy,,,,,there will be growers of some kind.

AND,,,,sad to say,,,,,but the commercial growers we are lamenting were the for runners of the violet movement from waaaaaay back. And eventually no one will want to carry on the name. THAT will be the demise of them.

But out of the ashes new places will arise to jockey for position and a few will always stand out as exemplary based on their past performance.

The fly by nights also will always be around and may get some business but their sales will be to people who will eventually move on. Lack of good service, no quality product etc.

Well, I was just going to give my 2 cents but seems it turned into $1.50!!!! Rosie

Good for you Rosie! Common sense would prevent a lot of trouble - if we would be applying it more often.

To be a good grower and love plants is not a talent that necessary is passed to children and grandchildren. So often when the founders retire - the business closes. Second - you need to make it a full time job to pay for your business and living expenses... and this kind of business operates on a very meager budget. Heating and electric bills need to be paid - and a good hailstorm can bankrupt the whole operation if plants are grown in a greenhouse. I am thinking that a small seller that churns couple hundred plants a year is probably earns a buck an hour. after all expenses are paid - so if it is an extra income for a young retiree - keeps you busy and you are doing something you like. So it is much more viable.

i.

Ok, I'm totally hijacking this thread, but I thought I should go ahead and show you what your mention of ebay and vendors caused. I'm quite pleased actually. Left to right, we have K's Muscato Bery Splash (had to photoshop colors on it...the ebay photo showed it white edged purple with pink fantasy vs the pink edged that mine shows...but that's the right color as I see it), Rob's Fuddy Duddy And toward top is a free unexpected bonus: Rob's Outer Orbit (not flowering).

This was literally a few minutes after I opened the box...onto my table where they will be isolated for a while before joining the ranks. I just gave them a drink, they were slightly dry for being in a hot box for 4 days. Though they ship much better dry than wet I find.

giggling a lot here!!!! I guess if we can enable someone to buy violets just with a forum thread,,,,our job is done! AND we will never run out of vendors!!!! Nice new babies dbarron!!!!! Rosie

I asked the seller about the lack of white in the Moscato Berry Splash (wow, I misspelt that above), he asked the breeder. Turns out I have K's Sangria Splash (sport of Moscato that apparently happens frequently). He's offered a refund or replacement. Nice guy, enjoying dealing with him.

However, if I stick leaves of Berry Splash, I guess I'll have to wait to see what they bloom as before I declare propagation a success...darn.

Good Job!

They ship better barely moist. You ship them dry - they will wilt, ou ship them wet...oopsie... rotten.

And you cannot get K. Hajner hybrids that easy - she mostly sells on Shows.

Yeah, I read her FaceBook page, this gentleman has quite a few of hers. I'm currently in slight lust for K's Cherry Chip Frosting.

OOOhhh! Now you're passing along the enabling, Dbarron. K's Lilac Infusion is scrumptious. Oh dear.

Now Anne!!!!! You are beginning to sound like me! Oh no!!!! Rosie

The evil of this thread continues...now Cherry Chip Frosting is going to be coming my way too.

Terrilou, I'm sending you a PayPal invoice for damages done (*lol*). I think I really have to stop acquisition....the window sills will be groaning come winter.

At least my achimenes will be dormant and not requiring sun till March or so.

Oh, wait, what can I kill before then to free up space ?

Good Going Terri! I guess you really wanted to keep the vendors in business and you have achieved your goal!!!!! lolololololololol Rosie

I just want to say that I am not responsible for the actions of others!!! Ha, ha, ha!!,. Its great to see you guys and gals getting new violets! I would like to do the same but right now I also have to find some space. I do have a number of young plants that haven't bloomed so these will have to be my fix for now.

So, dbarron, perhaps you need a light stand or two??. We could help you in that endeavor!! LOL!!

Naah, I have two bay window facing south, three normal south facing windows, two east windows, one west window, and one north facing. I'm good :) Truthfully, I hardly used the bay window last year..only half capacity on the table behind the window. And I decided to sacrifice (unconsciously) the paphilopedium orchids, so the west window is now free too. It's easier to let natural light do it's magic than me to install lights.

This whole thread has taken on a life of it's own!!!! I am laughing every time I read it!!!! Terri I bet you NEVER figured this would happen!!!! Rosie

eBay, I think, has hurt some vendors but the ones who have truly been devasted are those stores which have no online presence at all. (Sears, though not a plant vendor, comes immediately to mind.) Some vendors have been able to,make great use of eBay. I know one gent who caters to poison dart frog hobbyists. He has an online store but also posts items on eBay. He finds it amusing how many times someone buys one of his plants on eBay for 3 or 4X what they would pay for the same plant if they were to simply take the time to follow the link to his online store and buy it there.

"the commercial growers we are lamenting were the for runners of the violet movement from waaaaaay back. And eventually no one will want to carry on the name."

I assume you meant "forerunners"? ;-)

Possibly. But then there is something to be said for a name that one can reliably associate with "quality". That can't be said for the "fly by nights"/"flash in the pans". Should a younger entrepreneur take over the business and name of a Lyons or VB and be able to develop new, "fresh" hybrids of quality, then there is the chance that some of those old names will live on.

The ease of internet communication has been a two edged sword for plant clubs. On the downside, as has been mentioned, it is very easy to communicate with other hobbyists without ever leaving one's home. Also, one can leave messages at one's convenience. On the other hand, the internet has made it easier to locate clubs for those who enjoy face to face interaction. (And considering how lacking many of the "millennials" seem to be in the area of face-to-face interpersonal communication skills, attending club meetings in real time might be beneficial there as well.)

A big impediment to the survival of many plant clubs is, unfortunately, the membership.

In many plant clubs, the membership appears to be predominantly folks in their golden years. Whether this is the result of their having more free time or instead simply a greater interest in growing said plants, it can make the situation .... awkward ... for the young'uns. It is not unusual for people to be most comfortable around people in their own age bracket.

Also, many oldsters are seemingly out of touch or intimidated by today's tech. This presents issues with building new membership. Whether one likes it or not, the reality is that social media platforms like Facebook have become -- in many cases -- THE means by which the younger generation discovers and learns about events and social organizations. If today's clubs wish to have a chance of attracting new membership (particularly of the younger set), having a good, up-to-date Facebook page can be vital. Not only should contact information, location and time of club meetings be regularly updated, but also any information about club events like speakers (and the topics they will be discussing), or dates, times, and locations of plant shows which members and would-be members might like to attend. And finally, there absolutely needs to an active presence replete with photos show casing things such as pictures of plants members have brought in for "show and tell," shots taken at shows, and even a photo now and then of things or people at meetings or the society picnic. (And, yes, when taking such pictures in the latter cases, try to surreptitiously include a bunch of folks in the photo so it looks like it is well attended. :-D )

Then there is the issue of attitude. If new people show up at a meeting, they must be made to feel welcomed. I have attended society meetings in which no one made any attempt to greet me and I actually would have gone the entire meeting without a single person speaking to me if I hadn't made the attempt to "break the ice". They were all in their little cliques. Needless to say, I did not bother returning. (Some of these same groups I have heard of late are bemoaning the lack of new members and are mystified as to why.) In contrast, at the orchid society I experienced years ago, a new person was greeted within the first couple minutes of having walked through the door. Whoever greeted them would welcome them and make some polite chit chat ("Are you growing any orchids yet, and if so what kind?" "How did you hear about us? Any problems finding the place?" "Today we'll be having a speaker talking about ____." Et cetera) Then the new person might be directed to the refreshments table or introduced to another member. By the time that person had left, they would have met and chatted with at least 4-5 members. It was a much warmer, welcoming environment. I joined and was a member until I moved to a city 2.5hrs away. As it is, not only do those members still stop to chat with me if we run into each other at shows, they also keep me on their electronic newsletter list and invite me to the annual summer picnic.

Additionally, there sometimes is the attitude amongst the oldsters that they know everything and these new people -- particularly if the newbies are really young, in their late teens or early 20's, for example -- know nothing. And while this may indeed be the case, there are times the oldster couldn't be more wrong. (Though such individuals are rather rare, I have met people who had been growing plants since before they hit their teens. As such, they were already far more knowledgeable than one would expect for a person of their years.) Unfortunately, the aforementioned attitude often manifests as condescension which most on the receiving end will indubitably find to be a major "turn off." This is a shame on many fronts. Firstly, it can be the factor which causes the newbie to never return. Second, even if they come back, they will be far less likely to associate with those members which can be a loss to both parties. Even people as knowledgeable as Hyn or Irina, if they were to come across as snooty/condescending know-it-alls (fortunately, they don't), would certainly cause some people to ignore the advice they have to offer. For that matter, there is always the possibility that a newbie might actually have some worthwhile insight to give them.

SO TRUE!

I completely agree, Paul. Well said.