It's much better if you show the full swath of scenery of the back yard. While standing on the deck, aim the camera far left to begin picture taking. Take a continuous series of slightly overlapping pictures while you pivot the camera, panning the scene. You MUST NOT MOVE THE CAMERA LOCATION while you take the pictures. If you do, we cannot see how things connect or understand the real relationships between things. Don't make a panorama of the pictures. Post them individually.

What are your objectives? In other words, what benefits do you expect to get as a result of making changes in the yard?

I hate to tell you this, but in an area that wants to grow trees, a lawn is most likely the lowest maintenance option. All the woody plants that your forestry mulcher took down left behind roots that will sprout with multiple stems each unless sprayed with herbicide or mowed to keep low. So you will have to start by figuring out how to truly clear the area. Dig, herbicide, solarize with sealed plastic, or mow.

Gardens of any sort need weeding and other maintenance which is more work to my mind than mowing once a week. Paving might be lower maintenance, but is expensive to do right.

@Yardvaark- Yes let me take some pictures tonight and will post them individually tomorrow, we can take it from there. Thank you

@NHBabs- Can you please elaborate on your comments? I'd like to clear the area and make sure first that stems don't grow again. Are you saying the option is to spray herbicide on the roots now or after they sprout? (Honestly it is not possible to locate all the roots because of all the mulch)? What kind of herbicide will I need?

The guys who cleared the land with his forestry mulcher said that wait for 2 weeks till it dries up- burn the big stuff and then simply throw Kentucky 31 seed and grass will grow and then start mowing so that 'roots' wont grow stems. Do I let the mulch sit there to rot before i throw grass seed?

So when you say dig, herbicide, solarize, mow... are these different options and is this where you said growing grass and mowing will be easiest? Thank you

PS: Sorry again, we are very new to the 'joys' of homeownership so all this is pretty overwhelming for us right now

It's gonna be darn hard to start grass now, in the middle of the summer. At the very least you're going to need to water it every day. Folks usually "mulch" it with hay around where I live. I manage similar areas that are recovering from shrub infestations. We mulch to suppress weeds, use a product like Preen to suppress new weed growth, continually cut shrub and little tree sprouts and treat them with Roundup, and also hand weed. Would be the same for a groundcover as it would be for grass, except that with grass, you mulch with hay over the top of it, (or you can get removable planting cloth) and with groundcovers, you mulch between the starter plants.

Don't mulch with HAY in Indiana!! Hay is full of grass and weed seeds and will cause much more trouble than it solves. You can use STRAW, which is an entirely different product.

Yes, I gave you a bunch of different options that will help control the woody sprouts. Some can be used in combination such as mowing and then spot dabbing herbicide with persistent sprouts. You don't need to spray herbicide, and you should choose what herbicide you use carefully. So if I have a place where I want a shrub removed, but want to replant there within 6 months, I might cut it to ground level and then paint the fresh cut with the glyphosate concentrate (not the premixed). It doesn't remain active in the soil and prevent other plants from growing. Some herbicides will remain active for a couple of years. I use a disposable brush, at least one person uses a sqirt dispenser to carefully drip herbicide. You want to do it on fresh cuts (once they stop seeping sap, it's of no use) and do right where the bark and the cut surface meet since that's where the sap runs. There may be other herbicides that would work, I don't know, but a couple of applications of glyphosate concentrate on sprouting leaves or fresh cuts do the trick for me. Wear protective gear, at the least medical style gloves and glasses.

Mid-September is ideal for planting grass, so in the short term make piles of the big stuff and evenly spread the smaller shredded stuff for now to help keep down weeds. Most places have rules on when and what you can burn, so check with your local fire department about your area's rules. You can just keep it moist and add some fertilizer and depending on size it should rot eventually if burning isn't practical but it may take a few years. When it comes time to plant grass see how thick the shredded materials on the ground is. You want just a light coat, and you want to add fertilizer with nitrogen since the shredded wood will be using available nitrogen on the surface. Take off any extra in piles and use it to start compost.

Tools you want to invest in include

shovel if you decide to dig roots out or need to move dirt. Don't add or remove much dirt around the remaining trees if you want them to survive

pruners to clip off sprouts and/or a heavy duty mower since generally a regular lawn mower doesn't like woody material. Perhaps this is something you can rent monthly for this year.

OK, I was in a hurry so I may have used the wrong words. I use a spot sprayer for glyphosate on small sprouts and fresh cut stubs of small shrubs. It won't work very well on woody established vegetation but can be used on small and med. sized stuff. Herbicides are most effective on young growth, not old so don't waste your time and energy using them broadly on established weedy area in the summer. You can paint/dab whatever terminology you want to use, on the cut parts of small trees and shrubs right after cutting. Or you can pull weeds and dig out shrubs. I use a combination because I have 60+ acres to cover. Only "spray" on non-windy days and when I say "spray" it is with a small direct spray nozzle directly on the vegetation to be killed, not over a broad area. Label any spray or paint containers you use for herbicides as poison.

Snapshot or Preen, which are pre-emergent herbicides are meant to be applied with a spreader, they are in granular form, as is the stuff that you can get for lawns called "weed and feed" although you are not there yet. I prefer corn gluten as a pre-emergent, it's not as toxic, and you can get that in big bags at a lawn and garden place.

This is not a pest control tutorial board, I'm assuming you will read and follow the directions on any chemical products you use. At the concentrations needed to kill shrubs and keep stumps from re-sprouting, protective clothing is a must, particularly on hands and arms. That's why these herbicides at high concentrations are dyed so that you can see where they land.

And yes, I meant straw, not hay, misspoke and you can get the stuff at a lawn and garden place if it is a big one.

The install is sometimes the easiest part of landscaping. Watering, weeding, mulching, etc. on a regular basis, all the stuff that keeps the yard looking nice, is really what leads to beautiful results.

@l pinkmountain, @NHBabs

This is some excellent information- I truly appreciate it. I feel I am such a novice at this, every term you use I have to google to understand what it means. But it's definitely educational. Reading everything you guys have said, the task seem daunting- we wanted to clear the yard but did not realize the real work comes after. We were looking to get quotes to clear the yard from various companies that specialize in tree removal, landscaping etc. Almost all the quotes we got were around $3000 and would take 2 days in clearing and hauling away everything off the property so we almost decided not to touch it because we cannot afford to spend that kind of amount. But then I found this farm service company that has this Fecon Forestry mulcher attachment and he said he could do it in an hour at fraction of a cost. And he really did all this in 1 hour 20 mins for less than $500. He even took down 2 trees, skinny ones but tall 50 ft+. But what we did not realize was that all the stuff would be mulched on the property and it will not be hauled away. When he finished his job I was amazed but also overwhelmed to see all the mulch. Brush has all been cut to the ground level. The guys said all you have to do is wait for 2 weeks for big chips to dry up- burn them. And then just get a bag of Kentucky 31 and throw in this area and grass will grow because of all the moisture from mulched up wood. Then start mowing. So this is some history for you.

-When you say "Some can be used in combination such as mowing and then spot dabbing herbicide with persistent sprouts"<< what exactly will I be mowing? The wood chips and new growth? So roll over mower on new sprouts only? Or are you saying, I need to seed first- let the grass grow and then start mowing?

-Depending on what you are suggesting I should mow, the Husqvarna mower I bought won't suffice for this? Renting some heavy duty mower will cost $$ I suppose?

-Are you advising to plat seed in September, i.e. in 2 months? Till then just spread mulch all over the land? The big stuff I can burn, it's allowed in our neighborhood- I can possibly throw in small stuff in the burn pile also since, the land is only 0.2 acre.

-I did not follow if I'd need straw now and what for. Or just before seeding.

-Will any of your advice change if I say this is really about land less than 0.2 acres (you may have missed the decimal previously since I wrote .2 acres), small compared to what you guys may be dealing with.

Thank you again, I am so glad to have discovered this website.

This thing is going to teach me patience.

It is good to wait a few months to start lawn. In that time you can spray the shrubs that sprout.

Low maintenance is a myth, in my opinion. The only low maintenance is concrete. Lawn is fairly low as far as maintenance goes.

Since you have the wood chips I would spread them more heavily near the back of the yard. You can figure out a good lawn shape near the front and just keep an eye on the back until next spring.

At least three inches of mulch is needed to suppress weeds.

Don't feel overwhelmed, it is easier than it sounds. Growing grass from seed is so easy that I often wonder why people pay for sod. It does need to stay moist so plan ahead for that. I would not presume that the soil will stay moist based on wood chips alone.

If brush sprouts continue to appear in the lawn they can be sprayed with broad leaf weed killer without harming the lawn.

If you do not own an iron rake you should buy one.

I imagine some of the trees in back are volunteers and may not be desirable. Try to identify them so you can decide what you may want removed.

Next spring don't be alarmed if you see mushrooms. Just kick them over and rake them away. You'll probably see them for a few years as roots decay under the earth. It is normal.

@l pinkmountain, @NHBabs: Will you guys let me know your view based on my comments above? I had questions based on your advice.

@emmarene: Thank you very much and I appreciate your advice, especially your rendering of how the land will look with some grass. A few questions for you:

1) So are you saying that I should wait for a couple of months- (September?) before I plant Kentucky 31 seeds (just throw them liberally on the land once I determine the shape of the lawn? By then, it will be Fall and grass may not grow this year. So mowing will really be next Spring.

2) Do I need straw as others have suggested even if I have all the mulch from trees and brush?

3) Are you also suggesting that I move all the mulch to the back? There is a TON of it and it is spread all over. The guy who mulched it said just throw grass seeds on top and leave the mulch where it is because it will act as a barrier for weed growth. He said to only move big stuff. Rest of the stuff is more like wood chips anywhere between 6-10 inch long thin ones- not sure if they are too big and should be cleared as well- but that will be a lot of work.

4) I'd like to leave the trees actually if I can. But how do I get rid of all the ugly looking vines that are hanging from all the trees- I think they have been uprooted as part of land clearing so I think they are going to die- but they have engulfed almost all the trees that you see in the picture.

5) Also, instead of burning big mulched up chips, I thought I'd move them at the back towards the fence line, which creates separation between the neighboring property- if I do that, will these pieces simply decay there over years? Do you think its a good idea?

Plant grass in September. Generally summer is too hot and moisture isn't consistent enough to grow grass. You can try, but IME much of it won't be successful. Mow down whatever grows in the yard between now and whenever grass is planted, either with a bladed weed whacker (usually the typical string isn't heavy duty enough) or a brush mower or go around with sharp clippers and cut them off or alternatively spray with herbicide. Read the manual for your mower to find out if it is heavy duty enough to do tree sprouts. With the small size of your lot, you can probably keep things under control by hand (clippers and glyphosate) for this summer.

If you remove all the mulch you will get a ton of weed seeds sprouting so I wouldn't remove it all. I would leave it until right before planting of grass, and then you only need to remove what the mower won't handle.

If you pile up whatever woody debris you aren't leaving on the surface it will rot and form an excellent source of mulch for any flowers or shrubs you decide to plant. If you give it some fertilizer and keep it moist, that will speed up the rotting.

Well, it's kind of a tradeoff between spreading grass seed on mulch and on dirt. One thing you need to know is that when fresh cut woody debris breaks down, it uses up nitrogen in the soil. New grass needs nitrogen to grow. Now once the debris completes the breakdown process, it releases nitrogen. But the cycling of nitrogen in the soil greatly affects weed growth, and the growth of grass. I'm not sure what I would do, I have never tried to turn a forest into grass. What I do is try to keep weeds out of a planted area that is kind of like a forest. When you clear brush, you open up the soil to sun and weed seeds sprout. So before you plant your grass, you need to keep the weeds out. The second thing that happens is that some shrubs and small trees, when cut down, will sprout again from the roots and stumps, so you need to keep those down. There are several techniques for doing that outlined here. And yes, it sounds worse than it is because we are just giving you a lot of details that probably takes as long to type and read as it does to do it. There are both mechanical and chemical ways of suppressing weeds, and you may want to use a mix of both. But if you use glyphosate or some other herbicide, I would reiterate to learn how to use it properly and sparingly.

The problem with planting grass now, is between its nutrient needs and water needs and the heat, a lot of it will just not do well, so you will be wasting probably quite a bit of time and effort on seed and caring for the new grass, with a sketchy outcome. Better to wait until the worst heat of summer is over.

Not sure you will need STRAW for seeding your lawn. Straw is used as a mulch over grass seed, it keeps the seed from blowing away and holds the moisture in while the grass grows. It breaks down fast so by the time the grass grows up it has decomposed or is easy to lightly rake away. But if you are going to use mulch to control weeds until you plant grass, then I doubt you will need straw on top of that. Frankly, because of this issue with decomposition using up nitrogen in the soil, I would not do a heavy layer of mulch on that area intended for lawn. That's the tradeoff, you just have to keep on top of the weeds a bit and then plant the lawn, and then still keep on top of the pesky stuff that wants to keep resprouting. Not sure how long it will take for the grass to grow. Depends on what weeds you have to worry about. I have very aggressive invasive shrubs to try and suppress (Asian honeysuckle and burning bush/euonymous, and some wisteria vines). They are tough to suppress, they sprout everywhere, more seeds get spread by birds, and they sucker from roots. You might do well to examine what is left in the woods bordering your property and remove honeysuckle, barberry, and burning bush shrubs to avoid them being a seed source for your lawn weeds. Other problematic weeds for a lawn coming from a woods would be norway maple seedlings and smoke tree and buckthorn. Of course poison ivy too, which is not super aggressive but tricky to remove. Use plastic bags to pull it out covering your hand like you would remove dog poop with those plastic bags.

As for your chipped woody debris, I recommend creating a big mulch pile and letting it decompose for a while. Then, you will have rich, already decomposed mulch for around your trees and shrubs and in your garden. That way you will not have all that fresh stuff sitting on top of the soil, decomposing and using up nitrogen. Let it compost and decompose, then it will be good to add to your soil to enrich it. Fresh debris is not a good substance for planting in. The other option is to let it decompose in place for the rest of the summer, and then till it under in the fall before you plant the grass. I guess. Maybe you don't have to till it, depends on how fine it is and how it decomposes. Maybe someone else will chime in here who has done this. What I have done is cleared shrubs and debris and then mulched to suppress weeds on the one hand, and planted grass lawn on the other, but not in the same spots!

The vine remnants on trees will dry up and fall off in time.

I had the same concern as Pinkmountain. Your wood chips are fresh and will use nitrogen but if you wait to seed the lawn I think it will be fine. Is it shredded fairly small?

I would spend the time until Autumn killing sprouts as they show up. It might also be fun for you to start planing your garden.

@emmarene, @l pinkmountain, @NHBabs

Attached you will see a few pictures I took of the mulch left behind... there are a couple of shots of what's on the ground one photo of big stuff that I have piled up. Is this considered small shredding?

here are a few pictures of complete backyard from left to right.. see all those ugly vine remnants hanging from all the trees. Again all this area is less than 0.2 acres... about 75 ft by 100 ft tops. The land is not leveled- especially the last picture will show you slope---- sloping towards the house.

No, that's not small. I'm almost thinking it would be better to wait until spring to seed. Or perhaps get a load of dirt to put on top of the chips. Or maybe keep the mulch on there and just before you seed, rake it off and put down some topsoil.

The smaller woody debris could be composted but you would have to mix "browns" (the dead drying out stuff) with "greens" which would be fresh vegetation, not woody. That's a lot of work. The sticks are too green to burn immediately, but in a couple of weeks maybe. So what I would do is pick out the biggest sticks and save those for the burn pile, and maybe pile up grass clippings from the rest of the lawn over the mulch, to create a bit of a mix of greens and browns.

I hate lawn so I would not have removed the forest part there, but if I did want a lawn there, I'd probably leave the mulch there for now to suppress weeds, and then rake it out and add topsoil when I was ready to seed the lawn. But I could be wrong. I'd be interested to hear what other folks' experiences are.

I have a lawn with a forest edge. I am constantly picking up sticks and have to burn my stick pile every now and then to keep it from overtaking the lawn. I have even considered investing in a wood shredder, but the ones that work and are worth buying are very expensive. We use basic mulch like you picture on the trails at our arboretum, and folks always complain about the big stick pieces in it that don't break down. I am constantly picking up sticks. I usually throw them in the woods, but we also have a huge burn pile and huge compost pile.

Am skimming so not seeing what everyone has written.

I think you should devise and draw a plan showing where lawn ends and perimiter planting bed begins. You'd need to show tree trunk locations on plan in order to know how to create bed line. You'd plant grass seed in cooler weather. Not in thick layer of mulch but with thin layer of your mulch or straw. Let thick layer be in planting bed in order to suppress weeds. Spray emerging weeds regularly with herbicide suitable for tree areas. In the bed create a mulch layer 3 or 4 inches thick and As someone said, pile up extra mulch for future use or composting. As said, vines will fall out of trees on their own. But trim off the lower scruffy branches of trees, without stubs, so you have clean and neat looking clear trunks.

We have master gardener visiting our home today to look at the land and provide some advice. I will post what I hear from her. But now that it has been a week since the land was cleared I am kind of getting used to the 'forest floor' look I have in the backyard- does not look bad actually. If we do a clever landscaping and keep all the mulched up material around the boundary, it actually may look good.

A master gardener may have some or no DESIGN experience. They usually look at things from a horticultural viewpoint. They can help a lot with maintenance techniques.

BUT, they can help you identify weed trees (ones that will take over your yard if given half a chance, like norway maple) from ones you want to either keep and maintain or help with choices to plant around your existing trees. A master gardener coulde be invaluable for plant selection--helping you put the right plant in the right place. Landscaping is part design, but after all that is done, its success or failure will also rely on how it is maintained. And although the design may show you the "look" you want to achieve, knowing which plants will give you that look given your circumstances is another skill set that a master gardener may be able to help you with. Alternately, when you get to the stage of implementing your plan, a good nursery (not a big box) should have a person who can help you with appropriate plant selection.

I have got a question for you guys- you have seen the size of the mulched up stuff laying on the ground in my yard in the pictures I have posted above.

1- The size of the mulch you looked at looked too big and I understand that it will soak up the nitrogen from the soil and this will not help grass grow- correct? So it has to be removed when I seed the lawn... i.e. do not put it back on the top once seeds are in the ground.. Correct?

2- Does the above also apply when it comes to planting bushes? I mean will this same mulch with big pieces need to be removed when I plant bushes? Or can it stay there.

I guess I am trying to figure out whether there is a difference in how I'd treat mulched up material while planting grass and planting bushes with this mulch around.

Thank you

Mulch won't work on the lawn because it will shade it. Oh wait, you were planning on throwing the grass seed atop the mulch, right? I always believed that grass seed needs actual soil to grow in, but don't know everything. You can rake the mulch back, plant your shrubs then add some mulch back around the shrubs, just keep it away from the trunk or stems several inches and don't pile it too thickly. The thicker mulch can be back in the heavily shaded area where it will help with weed control and enrich the soil as it breaks down and decomposes. I use a lot of mulch in my shady back yard to minimize muddy dog feet. I try to keep areas that are too shady to grow grass covered in mulch. You want to keep the mulch on top of the soil, not buried.

Mulch binds up nitrogen as it decomposes, then releases it again. So it's a fluid system, so the answer is, it depends . . . The mulch isn't going to stay one way or the other, it will decompose. But how fast it decomposes depends on many different conditions. Larger pieces of wood obviously take a longer time.

Here's the skinny on mulches and nitrogen Mulch and soil fertility

You said you had been advised to put grass seed on top of the wood mulch. I really can't see that as being a path to success for growing a lawn, fast. But you can use it to create a shrub area with mulch in between or to keep down weeds in the forested part.

As for "mulching" a lawn, that is straw and that is too keep in moisture and keep the grass seed from blowing away while it's just getting started. You can also get plastic cloth that is designed to keep away birds from fruit trees or put around trees to keep deer from browsing, and stake that down over your grass to keep the birds from eating all your grass seed. That won't break down and has to be taken up once the grass starts growing through. The straw, unlike wood and bark, should break down relatively quickly and then release it's nitrogen. But if it isn't breaking down to your liking you can always rake it away lightly once your lawn gets started. They sell bales of straw at most gardening places.

I use wood mulch to keep down grass, so I really think they don't mix, use mulch for mulched areas and keep grass areas free of woody debris.

@NHBabs , @l pinkmountain, @Yardvaark, @PKponder TX

I think I have a plan now to push mulched up stuff that I have to the back and grow lawn in the area.

I plan to just moved all the mulched up debris to the back, creating a thick layer of it. Remember, it is too thick and big to break down easily. I have a couple of questions:

- Do you think I should have someone haul away the mulched up stuff and have them grind it and create finer mulch from it and dump it back? I don't even know who can grind down the mulch.

- Is it OK just to leave this stuff as-is in the back for another year before I decide to create a true mulch bed and plant some bushes in 2018 Fall? And will I need commercial mulch to lay on top of this mulch?

- Do you think by leaving this big mulch on the ground for 3 weeks now already and another month before I rake it to sow grass seeds, I have already caused harm to the soil because this big pieces of mulch are already robbing soil its nitrogen and when I lay down grass seeds, it will not grow well?

Thank you

1. Haul it away. No unless you have money to burn. BTW, you could burn some of the bigger twigs to make them take up less space, but wood ash is very alkaline so don't heap it all in one place and expect things to grow there.

2. Pay someone to grind it . . . hmm. It seems like what you have is not enough to make that a cost-effective option but you might investigate. I just saw an ad in my local paper for someone who offers tree trimming and shredding but you don't know if that is just more of the same level as what you have, so investigate. I get very woody debris from the power companies out at the Arb. and we are always picking out sticks from it, but we just throw them into the woods for the most part. Finding someone with a good mulcher might be difficult but you never know. I am toying with buying a small electric one just for twigs around my yard, but have heard they don't last long.

2, OK to leave as is for a year? I would think so. As far as needing more mulch, you can figure that out in a year, see what you've got. If it looks shabby you can pick out the big stuff and then freshen it up with a top dressing of fancier mulch if you like.

3. Stuff that isn't breaking down, the big pieces, aren't robbing the soil of nitrogen. I don't know about the smaller stuff, it depends. If in doubt, test the soil before you plant the grass. I think you're supposed to test the soil anyway. Some people get a load of topsoil to rake around before they seed a lawn, depending on how good or bad the soil is. Seems like your money would be best spent on something like that rather than futzing with your mulch. But test first. I don't think you're ruining your soil leaving mulch on it for a month or so. But if it were me, I'd read up on seeding a lawn and check off all my boxes for that. If you want a lawn, focus on doing the lawn.

I think you are wise to just rake the stuff into the area you want to have for shrubs and leaving it. It will be fine in a year and then you can decide what to do with that area and what's left.

I find it best to break up a big re-landscaping project into sections and focus on getting one part done at a time.

Take some time out to enjoy your yard too!