Here are the pictures:

palimpsest: You must have posted while I was working on my post, tape and photos. I didn't see it until I was finished with mine. Very funny and accurate post! Thank you. My budget is much closer to $10,000 than $40,000 and I don't think $40,000 would get me what I want in this kitchen. I think my brown tape is similar to what you suggested. You and Buehl are right about the problem with the island. I'm still unsure about removing the whole wall but if I do it will be similar to your illustration but with the overhang on the kitchen side and additional 12" cabinets on the dining room side. I need the dining room storage for china, glassware, etc. since I will be losing my china cabinet on that side. Not sure if it is worth the expense to open the wall. Maybe I'll get new appliances instead.

Those stools need a two tier island because of their height. You may want to avoid that with a small island.

BenjMoore Advanced or Cabinet Coat are two recommended paints.

If you used IKEA cabinets and kept your appliances, you could do the kitchen for a total of 20-30k. Yes even in NY. You don't need a much larger kitchen. you need a more efficient kitchen. My best kitchen I ever worked in was my first house because it was efficient.

The total layout of that kitchen was fridge, DW, sink, 24" cab, turn the corner. 24" cab, stove, 18" cab. And of course uppers too. We used the least expensive IKEA door and when we sold a few years later, the fancy woman who was downsizing fell in love with our "European" look.

First, tape can show you floor space but it cannot give you a true feel for anything of substance. You need the bulk/mass to really get a feel for and understand whether something like this will work.

Instead of tape, use a table the same size as your proposed island or build an "island" with boxes (same width, depth, height). Then, secure it so you cannot move it around without thinking and live with it for a few weeks (at least a couple of months would be best so the "newness" wears off and you can see what it's really like.)

.

Regarding the island depth...36" isn't deep enough for seating at an island -- you need:

• Counter-height seating...1.5" counter overhang + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door/end panel on back of cabinets + minimum 15" overhang = 41.5"
• Bar-height seating (assuming all one height)...1.5" counter overhang + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door/end panel on back of cabinets + minimum 12" overhang = 38.5"
• Bar-height seating with two-level island...similar to all one height, but you really should have an 18" deep surface at the higher height. This can either be with a larger top surface that extends over the lower side of the island or a deeper overhang.

If no decorative end panel or door on the backs of the cabinets, then subtract 1".

Another option to a get a shallower island is to get shallower cabinets. If you can get 21" or 18" deep cabinets, you gain 3" or 6".

.

Configuration of island...

If you don't want to have access b/w the island and the DR, then you can certainly encompass the posts into the island. Just be careful that you do not take any space away from the Dining Room as it's rather narrow already (11'). My placement was such that (1) it would not impinge in any way on the the DR, (2) it would give you better seating for visitors while you're prepping/cooking and/or for you to use while prepping, and (3) the additional storage would be available in the Kitchen.

If you're OK with people sitting with their backs to you while you cook and not having access to the storage from the Kitchen, then putting the stools facing the DR would work.

If you're basing everything off your current table situation, then be aware that

(1) Your table and chairs are a lot more flexible b/c they can easily be moved out of the way. If you put in a permanent island, you will no longer have that flexibility.

(2) The bistro table & chairs take up a lot less room than the island will

Traffic...Because of the above two items, your table has much less of an impact on traffic through the Kitchen than your island will. I'm not saying it won't work, but I do think you should really check it out first. So, build that island to the correct dimensions with boxes, secure it in place (floor and wall) and live with it for a couple of months! (If it's strong enough, you can even use it for extra counter space! )

Note: If you plan to take down the wall and incorporate that wall thickness into the island, then subtract out the wall thickness when you build the island out of boxes. E.g, if the wall is 4.5" thick, then build a "box" island that's 48" wide by 37"D (41.5" - 4.5" = 37")

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About the "box" island

I did this when planning my new Kitchen -- I was told by my KD and others that the small peninsula I wanted would be in the way. So I mocked it up with boxes and lived with it for what turned out to be about 4 or 5 months. Why so long? Because it turned out not only would I really like it, but it was already useful to me! The boxes were strong enough for me to use it for "set down" space - something that I sorely needed as my old Kitchen had so little counterspace. (That peninsula extends approx 27" from the perimeter cabinets. No seating, just additional counterspace & a 24" wide cabinet.))

I agree with Buehl that you need to mock this up with boxes. With regard to the island:

I think it depends on why and who it's for. If the one side of the island is taking the place of a hutch that extends into the dining room, if that hutch is a standard 21" or so, the island extending into that space 12" is a net savings, not even taking the wall thickness into account.

If the seating is not for guests, but for the OP and husband, it doesn't really matter which way they face. Or if someone is sitting there chatting they can sit turned sideways. I can't imagine entertaining two people at the island, having them face away from you, cooking for them and serving them there. That just makes no sense. This is a spot for the owners to eat lunch at or to sit and prep or have a neighbor sit while you're doing something. I am not big on island seating for any meals personally. Maybe a snack. I don't usually like to sit at the counter except sometimes at a diner. But it is nice to have a place to sit at a counter in a kitchen for some things. It should be adequate. But there is no way this island could ever be used to entertain other people seated at it.

I am not sure why you would need access between the island and the dining room? What for? There are two openings there already? I would probably make it all cabinetry and maybe have a space to slide a stool under part of it. If the OP needs storage a hightop and chairs has no storage.

This Island could serve the following purposes:

One it could replace dining room storage and possibly add a little kitchen storage.

Two, it could be overflow counterspace for certain kinds of prep and certain other tasks. The kitchen is small enough that nothing is a great walk. We used our island top as overflow for stacked baking sheets and racks and cookie sheets when doing heavy duty cookie baking. It was all of 37" x 20" but it came in handy when we needed it.

Three, there could possibly be some limited use seating at it.

Four, primarily it replaces the Wall as an organizational element. Why?. RIght now this is a one person kitchen and this one person is closed off from the dining room. With the wall gone and nothing there it is still a one-person kitchen but the person is no longer isolated from people in the dining room. A table can't really go there in the middle of the space just feet away from another table, that makes no sense. A storage piece could go there, but it would have to have a finished back, and free floating case pieces tend to be a little goofy anyway.

So what do you put there to replace a wall that was lost, dining room storage that was lost, and not particularly adequate seating that was lost? An island. It's a wall. it's storage and it could also have not particularly adequate seating. And I'd rather sit on a stool and prep something on an island than sit at a round high top and prep something. Maybe neither is great but one works better than the other.

The other option which would be cheapest is to cut a big window in the wall and that way the cook at least isn't isolated.

Is this more of what you had in mind?

Edited to add: I missed about needing more space in the Dining Room. I'll look at it again later today.

Actually, at a table for Six, the walk behind space isn't as crucial, because each person is on a corner. There is no compelling reason that people would be required to pass behind the person on their right or left, they can just take the longer way around. It gets more crowded if theres' three on a side.

I dunno, I know this is important, but at every single restaurant I eat at, exclusive of the $100 per person and up variety, the clearances are Much Tighter than this, and you are squeezing by complete strangers to get in and out of seats, sometimes. Restaurants are officially designed to have seating with official clearances between tables and then after they get their certificate they squeeze in more tables to get closer to their Lawful Occupancy number. So my feeling is that you can deal with a little crowding at the holidays.

If you were willing to make this into a one entry kitchen you may get more mileage by doing a longer skinnier run of cabinets tied to the upper column, more like a U shape with a peninsula.

"If you were willing to make this into a one entry kitchen you may get more mileage by doing a longer skinnier run of cabinets tied to the upper column, more like a U shape with a peninsula."

I was thinking the same thing! I guess it depends on how much Teddy151 is willing to change. I was trying to keep changes to a minimum since that seemed to be what was wanted -- at least in the beginning.

If, however, more significant changes can be considered, then that's a different story!

Remember, nothing has to be done, but it might be nice to see what's possible...what do you think Teddy151?

What is the size of your Dining Room table?

Here is what I'm talking about regarding getting a better layout. In this case you wouldn't even need to change your pantry/fridge wall. Then paint the fridge wall cabinets a fun color and get white or off white cabinets for the workspace wall.

I didn't move your stove at all. I moved your DW down and added a 30" sink. Yes it's not centered over the window, but then again neither is your sink now. What these changes do is give you lots more prep space between the stove and the sink. Plus you now have more cabinet space for storing pots and pans as well as upper cabinets for storing things.

Make all the lower cabinets drawers and you'll be pleasantly surprised how much you can store in those drawers.

The corner becomes a dead corner.

U shape with skinnier island. All cabinets facing DR, part cabinets facing K near stove

And this is why I said to leave the wall alone. Lots of gymnastics to force something to ''work'', but it really doesn't. And if you aren't willing to pay for the steel beam to support that second floor without a post in the middle of the former wall, then it would never ever work. This is a case of go big or go home. Go home. And keep your money.

Thank you to everyone for being so
helpful with your well thought out suggestions and comments. I have been
struggling with this for quite a while and hopefully will be able to make a
decision soon. My husband will be very
happy when I stop talking about this kitchen!

Dan1888: Stools in picture are just placeholders. They will
be replaced. The two paints I am considering are the BM Advance and Cabinet
Coat. I did a sample of primer, Advance and synthetic venetian plaster on top. Still
testing it. If anyone has put venetian plaster on their cabinets please let me
know!

Cpartist: I totally agree that my whole kitchen needs
reworking. This afternoon I cooked dinner and prepped some vegetables for the
week. I tried to imagine working in your plan. Yes, it would be better, no
doubt. I just can’t swing it now, but
maybe that will be Phase II. I
might
hold off on appliances for now while I consider it and price it out. I
read a recent comment that Anglophilla posted about "rules" and
adapting. For now I am adapting--this kitchen will never be great--I'll
be happy with better. Thank you!

Stan Z: You might be right!

Buehl and Palimpsest: Thank you! Kitchen seating is just
family, occasionally my son will bring home a couple of friends that might sit
to eat. I had a larger table (now in the sunroom) when the kids were younger
and we sat and ate dinner together every night.
The high table is just temporary. A neighbor was throwing it out so I
painted it for temporary use and brought up chairs from the basement.

I’m ruling out the island that was depicted in the
masking tape. I put chairs on the edges and used the kitchen today. I’m sure I
will have black and blue hips from banging into it!

The idea of closing off the entrance near the range is a
tough one. I keep storage that I frequently access in the hallway closet (extra
kitchen towels, cleaning supplies) and I have a pantry and closet in a back office. The hallway goes to the basement, den, office
and bathroom. Husband says no to closing it off but I’m going to block it off
for a few days and see how it goes. It would definitely help with the kitchen
and dining room!

My dining room table is 42 x 65 without the leaf but the
chairs are a little big so they take up space. Walking behind people sitting on
the window side is not a problem but the other side where the china cabinet is.
I recently took off the top to the china cabinet which makes the room look
larger. The base is 20” off the wall--too big for the room. The china cabinet had so much stored in it. Since I have a
large family to entertain I have a lot of stuff. Losing that china cabinet is
not easy. Adding a 12” cabinet on the dining room side would help.

Another thing to note—my husband works out of the house part
of the week and people enter through the front door through the dining room and
hallway to an office. He probably has about 8-10 appointments here a week.
Opening the wall makes my kitchen very visible. Not a great thing if I’m in
there cooking.

This has helped me tremendously by really making me think
about how I use this space. Do I renovate based on daily living (cooking full
meals 2-3 times a week and smaller meals throughout the week, only sitting
together to eat 2-3 times a week for 1-3 people, more countertop space and
storage needed, preference for a brighter nicer looking space and the fact that
my husband has appointments here) or for the handful of times when I entertain
large groups of family and/or friends and other times for smaller groups (6-8)
by creating a more open space? I guess I’m looking for the miracle compromise
that will give me both which is why I have been struggling with this.

Sophie: I am hopeful that there is some solution
that will
work and someone much better at this than me will see something that I
can’t,
which is why I posted here on GW. Is there nothing I can do to make this
space
more functional and improve the appearance? I think you give very good
advice. I’m taking everything into
consideration. I'm not ready to leave it as is just yet. Although it
might be cheaper to just use a food delivery service and not cook here!

I saw a picture of a kitchen on Houzz and tried to
adapt it
to my space. I taped it out on the floor. The wall would stay up. 12 x
18 cabinet, then a 12 x 30 cabinet (to store seldom used items accessed
under table) and a 44x32 tabletop with supporting legs above the 30"
cabinet. I could add
12” deep cabinets on the dining room side.
I’ll post a picture in the next comment as this one got too long.

Inspiration Photo: Just the idea of the table and one cabinet on the right. No uppers.

dine in kitchen Garden City NY · More Info

Would you be able to take apart the refrigerator cabinet and the one to it's right and switch them? It may make it less of an issue for a path between the fridge and the range if you attempt an island....

Teddy, how much do you want to spend on updating the kitchen now? I think you mentioned about 10k?

If so, I'm guessing with Ikea cabinets just on the work area of the kitchen (like in my version), you could easily do it under budget. You're talking about replacing a total of 9 cabinets. Even if each cabinet were $600 (and they're not. They're less expensive) that's still only $5400. I happen to think Ikea is a great buy for the money.

The only other thing you would need to buy is a new sink and a countertop. Ikea has gorgeous butcher block counter tops that would work well until the time you decide to replace (if you decide) with a new granite. And I'm guessing your granite could make a nice sitting area by the wall to the dining room in the meantime, so it doesn't go to waste.

You could even save more money by putting the cabinets together yourself. I've done it multiple times and after doing the first one, it turns out to be a fairly easy job. (If you want, I'll come show you if you're on Long Island. LOL)

cpartist: Yes I am on Long Island--come on over! We can sit in the sunroom--not enough room in the kitchen! Budget included hardwood floors in kitchen and refinishing dining room and hallway floors, reworking soffit and adding molding, painting cabinets (myself) and new lighting/ceiling. I've already priced all that and still have enough for wall (already rough estimated) and cabinets (unknown). The backroom pantry I have is Ikea. Not sure if I would want that in my kitchen or if I should trade granite for the butcher block counter. I would need a handyman for construction--my husband and I do not work well together! And a plumber and probably new backsplash and I would replace the dishwasher. I really do like that layout and know it is much better than what I have. Not sure if I can do that on $10k. I work close to Ikea--I'll stop in one day and take a look. Your suggestion is appreciated!

palimpsest: I'm not opposed to moving around the refrigerator wall cabinets. Probably can be done easily (no water hookup to fridge) with minimal cost. I am getting a new fridge in about 2 weeks. My sister is putting in a new kitchen (took her one day to pick everything out!) and she's getting a counter depth fridge. Her "old" one is much newer and nicer than mine! But how would it look with the pantry that comes out 24" and then the upper cabinet that is only 12" deep and then back to the 24" upper cabinet above the fridge? I wish I could use an online kitchen planner to try this in 3D. I tried Ikea and Homestyler but neither worked out so great.

One very small change would be to rework table by window to house coffee set up and move the toaster oven off your prep space by the sink.

You can just mount the 12" deep over the fridge cabinet out at 24" if it's supported on both sides by cabinets.

cluelessincolorado: Done! Toaster oven off the main counter. Thanks :)

I don't think anything is in the soffit, at least not the run over the window. I have a similar picture pinned and already spoke to contractor about this. I'm thinking of just raising the first cabinet closest to the door. It has my dishes in it. Raising them makes it too hard to reach the top shelf. My plan is to have the soffit flush with the cabinets and trimmed with molding and paint it all the same color. Thought about raising the cabinet above where I moved the toaster oven but contractor said no since I am adding crown to the top of all the cabinets. If you think of anything else let me know. Even the small changes will help!

palimpsest: The cabinet over the fridge is 24". I meant the regular height cabinet which would move into the middle between the 24" deep pantry and the 24" over the fridge cabinet.

How would it look? Symmetrical, but the window would be more submerged at 24" than 12".

I like that inspiration photo you had above. Sarah Susanka showed a small kitchen in one of her books that had a set up like that, but at table height next to an angled end cabinet. I have searched high and low for that photo because I thought it was so great, but it's becoming my unicorn. I KNOW it was at the end of one of the "Small" series, but I can't find it :( It made the kitchen very cozy.

As far as light, do you always have the shades drawn? I'm a light hound and am constantly raising the shades my DH has lowered. Maybe a different window treatment could provide the lighting you seem to want.

ETA: I don't have anything against cabinets that don't go to ceiling per se, BUT, I do find that they can make for a shadowy environment and maybe that's an issue here. This photo lifts my spirits, as well as my eyes.

http://www.designsponge.com/2013/04/before-after-lucys-kitchen.html

Waiting for new estimates from contractor. Current plan is still to keep existing cabinets (although estimate for new wasn't as bad as I thought but I can't convince husband--I'm working on a couple of other projects too so I have to compromise); I will paint them. Smaller soffit even with cabinets and molding. Wall stays up, just gets opened a bit on left side to make entrance wider and closed a bit on right side. Layout for a couple of cabinets and small table per the inspiration photo posted above (just the lowers). New gas range and vent hood (depending on price). Small microwave in cabinet next to fridge. Moveable cart where current desktop is. New ceiling and lights. Hardwood floors. I cleaned out and reorganized the cabinets, took down valances and will replace blinds. How does that plan sound? I know I will need more advice once this gets started!

This kitchen made me think of yours and another possible arrangement. I also like the hutch for that space against the dining room

El Dorado · More Info

Just a comment about cabinets going to the ceiling - our upper cabinets go to the ceiling and I love them. I can put all my holiday dishes, serving pieces and some not-used-very-often bakeware up there. I can easily access them with a step stool. To me it is very valuable storage, especially since I LOVE dishes!

I'm looking into the idea of a small table near the windows. Can't do a bench because of radiator. Might be a little tight for a table and 2 chairs. Thanks for the idea Cluelessincolorado! I can't change existing cabinets near sink without changing granite so that will have to stay as is. I keep questioning everything since nothing really works great but I just can't leave it as is. The more I cook in this kitchen the more I realize I do need to start over but even if I can convince my husband I'm not sure how to make it work with the space I have.

Powermuffin--if I was putting in all new cabs they would go to the ceiling. I'm with you on the dishes--and I love different style glasses too--just can't store them all!

I will keep looking and reading here--you are such a talented group of people!

Here's just another way to envision your space. This is not a minor change, of course, but before you invest any more money in this kitchen it wouldn't hurt to drill down to your dream layout and get bids. If you're okay with Ikea cabinets and inexpensive countertops it might not be that bad.

We put off a kitchen renovation once because I assumed moving two doors and adding a window would be cost prohibitive, but it actually wasn't as bad as I feared.

In your kitchen plan I tried to maximize counter space and improve traffic flow. I moved the back door closer to the front door and hallway. I swapped the back door and the sink window as well as raising the sills of the corner windows. The Veddinge cabinets at Ikea are $2726 in this plan. They're what I have and I'm happy with them, but I'm pretty frugal and function first person.

Benjesbride: I truly appreciate your illustrations! I still haven't done anything (other than get a new refrigerator) because we are contemplating a more extensive remodel than I initially planned. I am not able to move the back door--it opens into an enclosed sunroom. I have an outside entrance to the basement and the stairwell is below where you put the door.

If you were going to renovate this kitchen with new cabinets and counters, without moving door or window, keeping plumbing close to where it is what would you suggest for a layout? I know I need a larger sink and to get it out of the corner!

Can the back door move toward the other corner at all?

Your kitchen is like a big intersection for the house. I'm trying to think of ways to give you more workspace without a walkway through the middle of it.

What's through the French doors?

Moving the back door leads to other things. There is a concrete step in the sunroom right outside the door so that would have to be moved, the sunroom carpet would have to be replaced, siding fixed, etc. It was hard enough to convince my husband to increase the budget to replace cabinets! The French doors lead to my living room. The only wall I can "play" with is the load bearing wall between the kitchen and dining room. The back door is the entrance we use 99% of the time. My driveway is in the back of the house. Thanks for thinking!

When people come in thought the back door, do they typically go straight to the dining room or diagonally to the hallway?

Another question... If I walked through this blue rectangle, would I end up in the living room?

Teddy how much of a kitchen change are you willing to do now? BTW: I'm still in FL but when I get back to NY, we can play with those Ikea cabinets!

The back door is really killing this space for me. My latest thought is to keep the present cabinets intact and hack a fridge into the stove area and designate that as the clean up zone. If the living room directly behind where the fridge presently is, I was thinking you could add a doorway there, close up the wide (existing) opening and create a prep and cook zone on that wall with upper cabinets. Maybe a small bistro table would fit in the corner.

Benjesbride: I think you feel my pain! Yes, behind the "blue door" is the living room. The main path upon entering the house is definitely to the hallway. I'm not opposed to moving the wall. My original plan was to open the wall between kitchen and dining room (similar to Buehl's illustration above). I was hoping to switch the range to gas and install a real hood instead of the microwave/vent. Last year we converted the fireplace in the living room to gas and the plumber ran the gas line to where my stove currently is, we just didn't connect it so I'd rather not have to pay again to move it. If the best plan is to move it I will keep electric. My biggest problem is prep space. I take items out of fridge, place on counter and then there is no place to work. Someone suggested a moving cart, which I think would be a good solution. I could remove the desktop granite and store the cart there.

Hi cpartist. I hope you are enjoying your time in Florida. My husband is getting a little tired of me complaining and constantly being on my Ipad reading GW and Houzz trying to come up with some way to make this kitchen work! He agreed that if I can come up with a plan that I love (and stop complaining!) we can spend more than originally planned.

If I can greatly improve the function of this kitchen we would be willing to invest more money. But can I do that in this space? I'm not willing to spend $30-$40k if I am still going to have a hard time working in this this space, even though it will look a heck of a lot better. Or do I just do $10-$15k in updates and go on a great vacation! I'm struggling with it.

Once again, I appreciate all comments.

Bump - does anyone have any thoughts regarding the split layout here:

Thanks for sticking with me Benjesbride.

I have been reading and looking at pictures constantly, trying to find a similar kitchen to see what was done. The only big difference I see in somewhat similar kitchens is the sink is under the window and I saw one with a small movable island. Even with increasing my budget I still am not seeing much increased function. I stand at the counter prepping much more than I stand at the sink and my counter space will be decreased so I'm still questioning this.

I'm seeing two options: Flooring, lighting, appliances and either (1) stick with my original plan to remove the wall (with an increased budget I can take the whole wall down without supports) and add an island with seating for two and some additional cabinets, or (2) leave the wall and change cabinets/counters, move sink out of corner. Any opinions? See any other options? Thanks!

Hmm you don't think there's more counterspace in Benjesbride's plan? The big problem with you current layout is the range/sink arrangement, where prep/cook/clean-up are all crammed into that corner. Her plan gives you a bit more room to prep between sink/range and completely separates the clean up zone. I agree that it would be nicer for the prep/cook area to face the window and also get even more room between range/sink....but I think this is a clever option to consider budget-wise to not start from scratch.

If that back door could just move 2 feet to the left

What's happening between the stairs and the back of the house here:

On your options of either taking down the wall OR new counters/cabinets....I just don't think you're gaining much bringing down the wall without addressing the other issues.

I like cpartist's layout on July 4th. As an alternative, I had an idea for a U-layout. Closes up the entry near the stove, so directs traffic out of the work zone. Fridge isn't as far from the sink/range. I think these are still very tight for more than 1 person, but improvement over your existing layout.

This version has a table so people can socialize with you in the kitchen. It's less storage and counterspace. Depending on how much storage you need, you could do more pantry relative to the upper/lower cabs.

This one loses the table for pantry space, then you can have more counterspace in the fridge area.

What about working off of Benje's idea and doing something like this? While it's still only one sink, you now can wash your stuff and then prep next to the stove. Not 100% ideal but gives you a lot more counter space.

I also like the first U shape that caligirl came up with.

And I should be back in NY sometime in September!

cpartist: So you come back to NY when the weather gets cooler? You are the opposite of a typical NY snowbird! We go to friends in Hallandale for a couple of long weekends in the winter to escape the cold.

Thanks to all for your ideas. I've attached a picture of the hallway benjesbride asked about and a picture of what's on the other side of the door. Way too involved to move the door.

Caligirl5: You're right that I'm not gaining much by doing one or the other. I just don't think I can afford new cabinets/counters and removing wall/add island in addition to the other things I need to do to this kitchen. I'm going to get an estimate though. I tried blocking off the entrance near the stove with a table but it didn't last long. That entrance leads to a hallway (see pic below) and to a hall closet, bathroom, office, basement, den. We access those areas constantly.

The original kitchen had the fridge and a closet where Caligirl5 put the pantry/fridge (the wall was smaller) and I had a table where she put it. I needed more storage and the space felt too closed in so I changed it. And moved the sink to the corner to give me more counterspace. Not so great! I no longer need a table in the kitchen--just need seating for 2/3.

I like that big pantry on the wall, or maybe a 36" pantry and then base cabinets and uppers with glass for serving/bar area since I do entertain large groups. But then there is no seating.

If I move the stove to where it is in cpartist's diagram and where benjesbride put it I will have to keep electric (we installed gas line near current stove last year) and OTR MV instead of a hood. I put this design in ikea planner so I could look at it in 3D and am still playing with it. I will move some tables and hang a sheet to mimic a wall there to see it "in person" and measure it out on the floor. I need to visualize it--and then convince my husband!

Such creative minds here--I appreciate your input!

If I move the stove to where it is in cpartist's diagram and where benjesbride put it I will have to keep electric (we installed gas line near current stove last year) and OTR MV instead of a hood.

NO, then you switch to induction which is even better than gas! Frigidaire has a very nice induction range that gets high marks and is only $1500 and change. Go onto the appliance forum and read up on induction.

BTW: I LOVE your hall floor. And I'm guessing you're a quilter?

cpartist: So you come back to NY when the weather gets cooler? You are the opposite of a typical NY snowbird! We go to friends in Hallandale for a couple of long weekends in the winter to escape the cold.

No, no, no. LOL. We're building a house in FL and if I'm not here things don't get done or they get screwed up, so we're down here this summer. I'm coming back in the fall as soon as we can get a break in terms of stuff I don't need to be here for (like the roof or hanging interior doors or putting down the wood floors). Then it will be running around to doctors. LOL. Here's a thread that shows my house and my whole 2 1/2 year saga.

Teddy message me please.

One more idea.

Nice, Sena!

Very nice Sena!! Thank you! I will play with the measurements and move some tables around to see the spacing.

cpartist: I wasn't thinking about new appliances so haven't looked into it. I will definitely look into induction. I don't know anyone who has it. The pattern on the hall floor is the second one I did--there's another one I painted over under there! I took out carpet years ago and it was a cheap alternative to getting the hallway refinished. When I add hardwoods to the kitchen I will have to have that floor sanded. I hate to get rid of it but the new boards will have to get woven into it and the dining room, hall and kitchen will all be refinished the same. Yes, I am a quilter. I don't sleep much! I sent you a message.

benjesbride: I just looked again at your question of what was happening in the section you marked in green. There is a small hall closet and the bathroom there.