I spray separately. Regarding combining, follow the directions, some chemicals can be mixed some cannot.

Jim,

Thanks for your reply.

Do you spray with a garden hose attachment? If so,what are you using? I have no problem with doing this separately, but I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of an attachment for my hose. Whatever works is good for me.

Thanks again,

Oli

Oli

I used to use a hose end sprayer, Ortho was the brand. For the size of my yard, it was overkill. I now use 1qt - 2gal pump sprayers.

If you mixed the wrong cheimcals, at the least it would clog your sprayer or damage your plants, at the worst, you would create a toxic gas that would kill you.

Oli, there are 2 ways to kill bugs with poison. Contact or systemic. Contact is what most of the poisons do. That means you need to wet them with the chem. After various attempts my current conclusion for contact is ivory soap. an ounce to the gallon. Stay away from most dish soap because it has strong degreasers that the plants do not like. This is no harm to you or your plants. All the other contact add risk without extra benefit over the soap. For spider mites you need to frequently change the poison as the quickly get used to it. And the mite poison is very expensive. They do not get used to the soap and is very effective.

I use powdered orthene for a systemic. A sticks a little when using it. But it is considered relatively mild compared to other contacts. It kills on contact and also absorbs the poison in the plant. The sucking bugs die if the try to eat your plant. Holds in the plant for 4 weeks or so.

Unless you have an enormous amount of plants, get a 2 gallon pump sprayer. Lowes had a nice one.

I do the whole yard with slug snail bait. I get the one that is 99% inert and the other 1% is iron. Won't hurt at all. Snails are attracted to it and eat it and die. With all our Florida rain, snails can be a problem. I buy a 25 lb bag that lasts for 3 or 4 years. A big savings and more effective. The small box is around 15 bucks and because it it is expensive I was too sparring. With a 25 lb bag I use a hand spreader and do my entire yard. Perimeter of the house, yard and all bushes and trees. That works well!

Hopefully snails are not an issue for you.

I'm glad you are doing well with the pots and lava rock. Not for every orchid and not for every person. It the right situation it is very effective...

I live in Florida. I would not treat my plants for things they do not have.

Its important to keep an eye out for anything but I have found bugs are the least of the problem growing orchids in Florida. Fungal problems are most prevalent, not insects.

The insects I run into are thrips and scale. Scale appears occasionally but is fairly easy to treat without using harmful chemicals. I have also observed scale will appear on plants which are not thriving. I have not had an outbreak throughout my plants even though they grow close together.

Thrips are my biggest headache. They attack the forming flower buds sucking them dry. But, my entire yard is crawling with thrips. Gardenias and Hibiscus are host plants for them and I grow both. I am not cutting them down and will not spray with anything harmful to bees or other pollinators.

I move orchids in bud into my screened patio and treat those with a organic insecticide which targets thrips. It works well but needs to be done every week.

I grow so many different varieties of orchids and plants. Its important to learn what they each need and the time of year they need to be fed. You wouldn't want to dose any plants with a spray fertilizer while they are in bud or in a dormant stage of growth.

If you grow a large number of orchids, you could use a granular time-release type fertilizer which slowly feeds them. You could use a spray on plants starting new growths in spring. But you do not want to hit plants with a high nitrogen fertilizer when they are maturing growths or in dormancy.

If your plants are outside growing, spraying a killing insecticide when not needed is not a good thing. You are poisoning beneficial insects and possibly harming plants which do not have insect problems.

Best is to check on your plants and give them what they need when they need it. I like timed-release and treating plants individually for insect problems. But insect problems are rare. Much more a problem when you grow indoors. Outdoors, there are natural predators which keep bad insects in check.

Jane

Thank you Jim & Jane,

Ok, I get it. I will not combine any bug killer with the fertilizer. No bugs, no killer.

I'm guessing that you guy's have more of a growing area than I do.

Jane: a timed-released treatment? And just how well will it work with lava rocks in clay pots? I can see that working with orchids that are in bark, but mine are not. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean.

I still want to know how you are feeding your plants and how you do so.

Thank you both,

Oli - happy 4th

Harvey,

I don't know how I missed your last message. So sorry.

Yes, the orchids are doing very , very well thanks to you. I tried bark and spag, no go. I do water every day and they are spiking and very happy. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures 'before and after', hell, I can't even post the 'after' pictures.

Thank you again,

Oli

I use the orthene when I see thrips, scale, aphids or mealy bug. It does not matter if the plant is in bud or bloom or not. If I see signs of those mentioned I give a dose of orthene. I will spray with no signs of bugs as a precaution the first of spring and summer unless I recently sprayed otherwise. I do not use orthene in a oil form. Granulated or powdered.

Most of my orchids are in a screen enclosure so no bees are affected.

My neighborhood has been overwhelmed by 3 or 4 kinds of invasive ants. Left unchecked then there is no yard. The ants are hitchhikers and get to my house via the Port of Miami. 100 miles away. In a few years they found their way. Domestic ants are easy to eliminate. It is easy to kill the queen which kills the colony. But the invasives have different feeding methods and the queen is protected. Science has no solution. Most can be managed. Not eliminated. A new one, the big headed ant, from Australia, can't even be managed. Fortunately they are not interested in my concerns.

Big-headed Ants are African but are now widespread in Australia and other warm parts of the world. There is a product here that is very effective on them called Amdro. It's a bait so is carried by the workers into the nest and fed to the colony. That or similar products would also be available in the US.

Link: BIG-HEADED ANTS

Thanks Harvey & Tropicbreeze,

Harvey, I will change to Orthene rather than the Bayer's. You haven't steered me wrong.

Tropicbreeze , Ants, boy do I have ants, but, they are the very little ones that we have here in Florida about the size of ground pepper or sand. I'm hoping that the bug spray will take care of these ants also.

Quite frankly, I feel that there is no such thing as a 'good' bug...but, that's only my opinion!

Much thanks to you both,

Oli

tropicbreeznt, Good article. It indicates it has many queens and many nests and hard to manage. I have a professional service monthly. They have defeated all the other invasives. Not big headed. The U of F has no answer either. The penalty for globalization...

There is always napalm...

Oli, bug sprays aren't very effective against ants. You just kill a few workers but they are rapidly replaced by the colony. They need baiting, where the workers carry the poison back and feed it to the whole colony. That gets rid of all of them, until a new colony moves in from somewhere else. Whether there's other colonies ready to move in depends if your neighbours have been eliminating them.

Harvey, the Amdro does work on them. I keep an area about 100 metres around the house clear of them. But the property is a lot bigger and too difficult to clear the lot. And none of the neighbours seem to do anything about them so more can always move in, like with anything when you live in a natural area. The BHA aren't territorial amongst their own species unlike most other species. Two colonies come together can amalgamate without any hostility. Other species will fight with other colonies if they encroach on one another's territory. This helps control their numbers.

Amdro is fat based with 7.3g/Kg of Hydramethylnon as the active ingredient. It's registered (here) for Singapore Ants (Monomorium destructor), Big-headed Ants (Pheidole megacephala), Tropical Fire Ant (Solenopsis geminata), Red Imported Fire Ant (Solenopsis invecta), and Green-headed Ant (Rhytidoponera spp.). None of the native species seem to be attracted to it.

Napalm works, but does have some unwanted side effects.

Thank you both,

But...Jeeze Louise, maybe I'll just forget about the tiny ants and how to kill them. Now I'm really confused. I usually bring the orchids that are in bloom into my lanai until the blooms die and then they go back outside. In the last few months of doing so, the little ant ba$tards are now in my lanai and I really don't want them in my house!

I will do a preventive maintenance with bug control for, I guess, the 'normal bugs' which I don't have...yet.

Thank you both for your time and advise,

Oli

tropicbreeznt, How often do you put the bait out. And how much product do you use each application? Is it clear 100 meters on either side? Can you give me a dimension of a rectangle including your house that you treat? I talked to Amdro and they said the bait will dissolve when wet. Thanks

I use the Amdro when I find a BHA colony, they're quite distinct from other species. I stir up the colony with a stick and then sprinkle the bait over the swarming ants. I just guess the amount needed depending on the size of the population. I make sure they get more rather than less.

When they take the bait in they can only feed it to active members of the colony. Larvae that have pupated are dormant and don't feed. So when the active members of the colony are dead the new emerging ants need to look for food and they find the left over bait already stored in the nest. If you don't use enough the colony can eventually repopulate from ants that were in the pupal stage.

In the wet season I cover the bait to stop rain hitting it. If I can't prevent it being washed away I don't apply. I have swamp and creek areas and don't want it in there. Dry season there's no rain for at least 3 months, sometimes for 4 - 5 months. I keep the Amdro in the fridge to extend its effective life.

I don't randomly spread the bait. It's a bit expensive to do that anyway. My place isn't what you'd call "suburban landscape" by any means. There are open areas, but also my 'rainforest garden', orchard areas, and natural bushland with a number of different habitats. So when I say 100 metres around, I don't concentrate on eradication beyond about that. The house is about 100 metres from the front and goes about another 400 metres to the back.

tropicbreeznt, please look at this link and tell me if any of these amdro products are what you use. http://www.homedepot.com/s/amadro%2520ant%2520bait?NCNI-5 Thanks.

I checked that link, the closest is Amdro Fire Ant bait. Had a look at the Safety Data Sheet. Active, constituent is also Hydramethylnon at 0.73% (same as ours - 7.3g/Kg). The only thing I'm not sure with is that the actual bait is what they call "defatted grits" at 70% to 80% with the rest just listed as "other ingredients >15%".

The SDS also states that the product is good for 3 months after opening. Says the same on ours but adds that under refrigeration it'll last a lot longer. I guess it's a matter of the fat/oil going rancid. Mine in the fridge goes for 2 years and still works well.

The label on yours states it's Fire Ant bait, but on the SDS it doesn't specify other than saying generically "ants". I don't know what "defatted grits" are but the fat/oils are what should attract the ants into taking it. The other products on that link use various sugars as the attractant plus up to 1% Hydramethylnon. That would get different ant species.

Our Amdro lists the Fire Ant as one of the target species along with the Big-headed Ants. So I'd infer from that they'd both have the same feeding habits. But I'd feel more confident if your Amdro said something like "fatted grits" rather than "defatted grits". You might have to check on that. Here's what ours looks like.

Thank you for the big effort. I'll give it a try.

Hi guys,

Sure am glad that you both are having a great ant conversation, but right about now, I'm sorry that I mentioned ants! Your posts are not that helpful, as far as I can see, to me and my original question.

Thanks again,

Oli

Getting back to your original question, I don't believe in indiscriminate spraying. However, I have hose sprayed Miracle Gro once in a while during spring.

As I said, I use timed release so I don't have to fertilize with each watering. Many of my orchids are mounted and growing in rock. I use old panty hose or knee highs and put a few scoops in the fabric and tie it with string. I hang the packet on the mounts and place a few packets around the plants in pots with rock and in baskets.

I try to water every few days during the hot season and I know they are getting fertilized with each watering. It has been raining here daily so I haven't had to water yet my plants are getting fed.

Bayer makes a Rose and Shrub systemic which works for insects, fungus and fertilizer. Again, it is time release. You can use that the same way using pantyhose. It is time release and also lasts about 3 months.

It is up to you. I find it easier to use the timed release although I still use liquid fertilizer on certain plants which require certain nutrients in higher amounts.

Your orchids evolved to grow and reproduce in various climates all over the world. Its important to learn about your plants and treat them as individuals rather than once large group.

Jane

Well Oli, you did go on about bugs generically and about indiscriminantly 'zapping' them. Then you mentioned the same about ants. What I was doing was pointing out what you need to go into in identifying the bugs and then finding the correct solution. As Harvey had done the correct thing and identified the bug it was a good example to use. But, you can use proper methods, or you can mess up your place, it's your prerogative. No skin off my nose.

So identify the exact ant first. Then in every county in the US there is an agriculture agent that is obligated to advise all citizens. Bring the agent an ant or 2 to identify. They especially support farmers but all are welcome. Then google the ants name with how to control or manage and answers will pop up. A broad spraying of a cocktail of poisons possible will kill things that do not cause problems. And some bugs eat other bugs and they are your friend.

Again , thank you all for your comments,

Tropic: I'm glad that there is no "skin off your nose". It would probably keep me up at night. I thought that this was a learning website. Thanks to you, it has not been....

Harvey: I did identify the ants, they are ghost ants, not the dreaded ants that you and Tropic are talking about.

Tropic & Harvey: I am sure that you have forgotten more than I will EVER know about orchids. And I do appreciate your comments. This is a forum where people ask questions regarding the issues that they might have, however mundane the question might be.

Jane: Thanks for the info, and thanks for getting back to my original question, it is greatly appreciated.

Oli

Oli, I bring and grow many of my orchids inside my screened lanai. I don't worry about the ants. I have never had ants inside my house. My guess is those small ants are enjoying the honey dew the orchid makes when budding. I think they go away after. Not positive, but I've never had a problem and they don't seem to hang around.

I've even brought some inside when I was worried about a cold night and never got an ant indoors. I only see them on orchids in bud.

If you want to use something with insecticide you can also use a timed release. I have used Bayer Rose and Flower for scale when I couldn't control it with alcohol. It is systemic and lasts a few months.

For fertilizer, I use Dynamite or Oscomote. I look for fertilizers that contain micro- nutrients.

Tap water is not the best for orchids mounted or growing in rock. I use rain water and have rain barrels attached to my downspouts. I do have a filter on the water coming into the house, but still notice how certain species do not like tap water.

But, the bottom line is how much time do you have to spend on all this. I don't and this time of the year, we get plenty of rain which is good water. I use time release to save me time however I do use liquid fertilizer at various times especially when new growth on plants is occurring.

I'll post a few pics to better show what I do.

You can do the same with any granular time release.

Hope this helps explain what I was talking about.

Jane

Thanks Jane,

I was so thankful not to have to buy panty hose after moving here 12 years ago! I now have a different reason to get some.

It does explain what you were talking about and I'll give it a try as well as the Dynamite, I haven't used that before.

I do use the backyard hose (not panty!) to water & fertilizer, I just don't have the space for barrels of rain water, we live in a condo.

Other than the Ghost Ants, so far, I'm bug free. Maybe I'm a nervous Nelly, but I hear of all the horror stories about scale, thrips, mealy bugs, etc. and would like to nip them in the bud so to speak.

Thank you so much for your time and information. It is appreciated more than you will ever know.

Oli

Lol! We moved down here 7 years ago and I took new pantyhose with me. Can't even imagine wearing those again! But they really come in handy for lining baskets and making little packets for fertilizer.

I like the knee highs. I hit the dollar stores and they sell bunches for a buck. Very handy.

Water in Florida is not very good. You can use it but make sure your fertilizer contains micro-nutrients. Orchids need them.

Also, you never mentioned where in Florida you live. I live in Sarasota which is Gulf Coast.

The best advice I can give you is to look for a local Orchid Society in your area. So important and helpful. They usually meet once a month, share plants and stories. Usually have a speaker dealing with problems most orchid growers have. Also, they have vendors who sell their wares at discount. I buy most of my bark and rock from them. No shipping, no hassle.

You will also meet people growing in your area and can share your problems and show off your plants. You can attend as a guest and decide if you want to join. Mine allows people to come for free for three months. To join, its only $10.00 for a year. The best education you can get because you meet folks dealing with the same issues you have.

Check into it. Just Google your area Orchid Society.

Good luck, and please come back with any other questions. Most people here are nice and very helpful. I just think things started moving away from your original post.

Jane

Hi Jane,

When we moved here, I got rid of the winter coats, sweaters and the dreaded pantyhose! I did however, keep the boots, my husband questioned this and I explained that they were no longer snow boots but hurricane boots. He thought that keeping the boots was a good idea.....I don't have them anymore. I do wish that I kept the coats & sweaters, had to replace them, now, I'll replace the pantyhose! Hopefully, I won't have to replace the boots.

We live in Bradenton, right around the corner from you. I work in Sarasota.

We came from Rhode Island and I grew my orchids under lights, humidifiers and timers, with great success. Sound familiar? At some point in time, I decided to switch over to semi-hydro, again with much success. When we moved, I gave all of my orchids away, it was like the neighbor who grew tomatoes and saw you coming with bags: "I don't want anymore". I did ship 4 orchids UPS next day air to Florida. And in case anyone is questioning, no, the semi-hydro doesn't work down here, at least not for me.

I'll keep you informed of the pantyhose!

Thank you again, you've been very helpful,

Oil

Hi Jane,

Ohhh, Selby Gardens.... I love that place. So serine and peaceful, not to mention beautiful. We have gone there a number of times with or without our 'up north' visitors.

I will join, but sadly, I will not be able to attend the meetings. I have, in short, night blindness, which doesn't allow me to drive at night. But, I do want to keep up with the going ons of the Orchid Society. I'll be checking the newsletter, who grew what and other info.

Pantyhose; ever think of starting your own business? With the amount of orchids that you must have, surely, you must have stock in some company. Speaking of which, I just got myself some really fine ones today. I'll let you know how things work out.

Hopefully I'll get to meet you one day, I usually go to the Orchid Show at the Auditorium in January, maybe then.

Again, much thanks,

Oli

Oli, Ask if there is a newsletter. If so see if you can request ride sharing. Probably members nearby. Then there is uber...

Oil, I always work the big show in January. I'm the lady selling raffle tickets when you enter.

If you join, you can enter your blooming plants at the Club Display at the show. It's fun. You can always volunteer to do something at the show, we never have enough volunteers.

The Club has a monthly newsletter which you get as a member or I can forward it to you.

Btw, knee highs are cheaper!

tropicbreeznt, Amdro worked! I sprinkled a tablespoon or 2 on the ground near the tree they nested. Instantly the bait was in motion being moved by the ants. A few hours later, 2 weeks ago, they were gone and have not seen them since. Even better the big headed ants eat other ants. So 2 varieties of invasive difficult ants that I have been plagued with are gone. The big heads ate them. And now the big headed are gone too. So tropicbreeznt, a big thank you for your persistence and response. I'm better now. And all the experts say there is no solution...