Watermelons and muskmelons in SW Idaho
Mokinu
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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Mokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
cantaloupe woes
Comments (18)The muskmelon family is subject to diseases, both of the roots and foliage. You shouldn't have too much difficulty with fungus diseases on leaves in Arizona (except during monsoon season), but you could have some problems with soil diseases. You might try a disease-resistant hybrid. We also have problems with aphids and whiteflies sometimes, but if the plants are healthy, usually there is not too great a problem (except in heavy white fly years). Soil salinity can also stunt or kill plants as the season progresses. Soil should be fertile, but avoid salty amendments like manure. If the plant you are growing in a container is the best-looking one you've had, maybe soil salinity is a problem. There is one part of my garden where I can't grow melons because of soil salinity. But if you successfully grow Armenian cucumbers (which are melons) there should be hope for you to get some "melon" melons too. Your muskmelon plants may not need as much water at your watermelon plants. Hope your container is large enough to support a mature plant through periods of restricted water (when ripeining). I have only grown smooth-skinned melons on a trellis. Can't vouch for netted melons, though I don't know why there would be a problem growing them off the ground, as long as there is a sling to hold them so they don't fall off when ripe....See MorePlanting plans, spring 2010
Comments (9)backyardener, in my hoop house, I have planted lettuce, muclin mix, and carrots. I still have room to plant some things like some early potatoes and maybe a tomato plant. I dug up some more sod to expand a vegetable garden bed - added about 70 sf to an existing bed using a double-dug technique. It's done, ready to go. I have onions that need to get planted, and they will probably go into that newly expanded bed. I am eyeballing the apple trees thinking that they are in desperate need of a pruning. The branches will make an excellent ramial mulch. I got my seeds started too early last year. I'm trying to hold back so that they are ready go into the ground on May 20 or so. Peppers, tomatoes, muskmelon and watermelon. I will probably set up the grow lamps and get the seed starting mix ready this weekend. I am hoping to rent a sod cutter to skin about 400 sf of lawn to make new garden beds for corn and potatoes. Corn takes a lot of garden but isn't fussy about the soil. Likewise, potatoes are easy, so I won't bother to put either of them into the organic garden beds that I have worked up. I planted a blueberry plant to replace one that died. Those are right next to where I planted some American chestnuts in the ground. Hopefully, all the chestnuts sprout and I'll have chestnuts in a couple of years. And I need to reorganize the strawberry beds and prune the raspberry beds, likely to happen this weekend. - Paul...See MorePrudence Purple Tomatoes ?
Comments (23)That makes me want to grow my Vorlon seeds next year, too. I can only do so many varieties (I have to cut down next year); so, we'll see. Tony, Early Moonbeam was bred and stabilized from Yellow Doll F1. I haven't tried Early Moonbeam, but I grew Yellow Doll F1, this year. Here's my analysis of Yellow Doll F1: Most people love its taste, but none of the yellow, orange, or white watermelons I grew this year (including YD) had much flavor to me (the red and pink ones were fine as long as they were ripe, normally, however). The white one has the most flavor of the three. However, a relative really liked YD, but she did admit that it was mild, and she liked the Cream of Saskatchewan more. The flavor was good (and the flesh was easy to eat), but it was very mild. Most people say it's really sweet, but it wasn't really sweet to my tongue. The color of YD was really nice. There are two kinds of yellow flesh for watermelon. YD has the kind that more people seem to prefer (the other yellow flesh trait is called Salmon). YD is known to do well in a wide variety of climates. Yellow Doll F1 initially had above-average vigor in our soil/climate, but it didn't get full-sized fruit (although it did get probably at least four fruits). Ancient and Santo Domingo Winter also had above-average vigor early on, too. Our soil is more compact and cool (notwithstanding the hot air) than is probably ideal for most watermelons—and we've had lots of spider mites, lately. So, I've been growing a lot of watermelon varieties, searching for the ones that do the best in our garden (I've trialled somewhere close to 60 varieties, I think). My favorites for production, so far are these: Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year; we got about 15 fruits), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year), Navajo Red (dry; 1st year), Congo (dry; 2nd year), Orangeglo (dry; 1st year), King Winter (wet/dry; 1st/2nd year), Yellow Doll F1 (dry; 1st year), and Moon and Stars (dry; 2nd year). Some others might go here. My favorites for reaching a large size (for our garden), and/or the size it's probably actually supposed to be are Ledmon (wet conditions; 2nd year), Congo (dry; 2nd year), Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Moon and Stars (wet/dry; 1st and 2nd year), Verona (wet; 1st year), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year), Sugar Baby (moderate; 1st year, but we grew it from 1st-year plants multiple times), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), Florida Giant (dry; 1st year), Carolina Cross #183 (wet/dry; 1st and 2nd year), Fairfax (wet; 2nd year), and maybe Wintermelon. The largest watermelon fruit I've grown to date was a Ledmon (wet; 2nd year). Congo was the largest, this year (dry conditions; 2nd year growing it). My favorites for earliness so far are Blacktail Mountain (wet; 1st year—it was early the 2nd year in dry conditions, too, but not as early, perhaps), Verona (wet; 1st year), and Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year). My favorites for taste, so far, are Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), Tom Watson (wet; 2nd year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Verona (wet; 1st year), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), and Sugar Baby (1st year). My favorite watermelons for smell, so far, are Wintermelon (dry; 1st year) and Jubilee (moderate moisture; 1st year). Overall, I'd say the ones I like the most are these: Congo (dry; 2nd year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year; not sure on taste, though), and Verona (wet; 2nd year). I'd like to see a cross between Black Diamond (and/or Congo) and Santo Domingo Winter. The plants in wetter conditions didn't have any eastern sun (but they had a lot of sun otherwise). Anyway, tips on growing watermelon may vary depending on your growing conditions. I imagine yours are probably easier to get large fruit in than mine. I'll tell you the general advice I read, and then I'll tell you some extra thoughts. People generally say to create hills for your watermelon so as to help warm the soil (I imagine that helps in some areas, but in mine, I think the soil would dry out too fast, due to how strong our sun is). They say to water a lot (I think this is generally a good idea for a good part of the season, depending on various factors, but I think some varieties like dry conditions better; I think the conditions you grew them in the year before matter, too, even if the genes are still the same). They say to you can have up to three plants per hill (this is *very* true, in my experience; you don't need to thin to one plant; however, I've tried with more than three on lots of varieties, and you can probably expect smaller fruit if you do that). They say stuff about fertilizer (and more stuff about water; I don't like to fertilize unless the plants ask for it, except maybe at the beginning of the season; I can't speak for what works the best there, though). Some people say not to grow some other members of the same family nearby as it may affect the flavor (I don't know why this would be true, but I'd have to experiment more to form an opinion). They say to use compost and stuff (plenty of organic matter; this is generally helpful for almost any plant, but I don't always do it). They say not to plant in compact soil (I have compact soil; it is true that it's a challenge, but it's possible to get a good harvest in it). They say to grow watermelons where it's hot (they probably do best where both the days and nights are hot; we have hot days and cool nights; I think the soil is a more important factor; I know of people in the area that don't seem to have trouble growing large, long watermelons in their gardens). They say areas with cooler nights may result in smaller fruit (I'm undecided on this). They say round watermelons generally do better in conditions similar to mine than long ones do in conditions similar to mine (they seem to do better more often, but I don't know about always). They say not to start watermelon indoors too early (I haven't noticed a big difference between performance between watermelon started super early and watermelon started a few weeks before transplant; however, the younger ones, as long as they're not too young, can have a growth advantage). I've found that the more leaves a watermelon has before the transplant, the more likely it is to be stunted. I think actually removing most of the pre-transplant leaves may help the plant to grow faster (they say the taproot being bent from growing too long in a container or disturbed is what causes issues, but I hypothesize that it might be the pre-transplant leaves that are what stunts them or causes problems). I've noticed that watermelon seeds that I expose to magnets for a while seem to sprout a lot faster in colder temperatures (in an outdoor greenhouse in the spring), so far. Pruning the old leaves off soon before the time of year when the plants start to get diseases, if you have diseases (and/or if your plant stops growing), is something that I think could potentially help the plants survive longer and reduce the spread of disease (at least in my garden; spider mites and something that I've thought was foliar anthracnose, but that may be a similar infection, seem to be problems in my garden). The reason I think it might help is because the vines that grow out the farthest away from the main body of watermelon foliage tend to be the vines that live the longest with the fewest disease symptoms. I've found that direct-seeded watermelons (in my garden), and ones I start early (but don't let them grow very big) seem to get much smaller fruit than those I let grow to a certain size before I transplant them. People say if you save your seeds, you should ferment them (as people do with tomatoes). I don't do that (at this time), but I do zap them with all three frequencies of a Z4EX for a total of 45 minutes before I dry them (as an experimental precaution against disease). I believe I've read that fermenting doesn't kill anthracnose, anyway (so, why not experiment?) I haven't noticed more disease in my saved seeds; the only varieties I've seen that had some kind of resistance seemed to be Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year; it seemed quite resistant, but I didn't have it growing close to other varieties—it was by muskmelons/cantaloupes), and Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), as well as late-to-mature varieties (they tend to survive until the fruit ripens; however, the spider mites and such seem to make most varieties ripen faster). My germination rates are great (better than store-bought seeds; they sprout faster, too); I think that's most people's experience when they save their own seeds, though (I don't think the store-bought seeds are worse, but they're probably not as fresh, and not as used to growing in the same magnetic fields that exist in the region or something)....See MoreCucumbers not transplanting well
Comments (12)In my area (SW Idaho), cucurbits may germinate easily via direct-seeding when it's warm enough, but they don't have much time to grow very big before it gets too hot and dry for their plant size (and it can stunt them if you're not careful). So, I have better results with at least some cucurbits (melons and watermelons) when starting them early. However, yeah, cucumbers are a lot harder than melons and watermelons. The last time I tried transplanting them, I had pretty much the same results mentioned in the OP, but I know other stuff I could try now to make things more successful (whether or not it would work with cucumbers). So, I've had better results with direct-seeding cucumbers, so far, but it's definitely not ideal in our conditions (except for germination). I grow Armenian cucumbers instead. They're way easier in our garden, and they transplant better. They're also earlier (in my garden), larger (fruits and plants), more vigorous, more clay-tolerant, more heat/drought-tolerant, and have a much longer season. Plus, they store better, and quench the feeling of thirst really well (the big fruits; I'm not a fan of eating them small). Very refreshing. They're muskmelons, but they taste like cucumbers (texture and all). I've only tried Metki Dark Green Serpent, but I'm trying Armenian Yard Long, too, this year. If you get much heat/sun, I definitely recommend growing them. I'm trying West India Burr Gherkins, this year, too. We're also growing borage, which is said to have leaves with a cucumber-like taste. I grew African Horned Cucumbers (AKA Kiwano) last year. I got a few fruits on a relatively small, delicate plant with small leaves (most people say the plants get huge), but they looked great and tasted awesome, but they didn't taste like cucumbers—more fruity, kind of like lemonade or kiwi. Kiwano did better from direct-seeding, like cucumbers, too....See MoreMokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMokinu thanked keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)Mokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMokinu
6 years agoMokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agokeen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoThere was a discussion about watermelon genetics on the other forum. The discussion is still ongoing, but it prompted me to make a neat little picture to try and understand the watermelon flesh genetics a little better. I have simplified things a bit, and ignored a few other genetic oddities/genes, but for flesh here is a basic line of most dominant on the left and most recessive on the right as far as i can tell.
It is interesting you found the orange fleshed ones to taste pretty meh. I don't grow orange but i find the salmon yellows to be mealy and poor flavor. Perhaps it is the soil here. I imagine your soil is similar to mine so that may make a difference in what flavors taste better in our climates. Since salmon yellow sortof looks to be a sub-type of orange i'm not surprised at them having similar flavors in our region.
https://biolumo.com/index.php?title=Watermelon_Genetics
Mokinu thanked keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)Mokinu
6 years agoMokinu
6 years agokeen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoMokinu thanked keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoSo i edited that page and photo to remove white from the list. My current understanding is this:
That
Canary Yellow is dominant to all colors unless the inhibit gene is
present. If the inhibit gene is present the flesh color defaults to red
or pink or whatever color is dominant next. And even though not all the
red and pinks have been studied, it sort of looks like the general trend
is the one with the most color is dominant to one that has less. With
the last one being Salmon yellow.It also sounds like White
might actually be dominant over Canary yellow and all color as well, so
if you have white fleshed in your population that may complicate things
quite a bit. I only have white fleshed in my population from Citron
melons. In one study the inheritance numbers were this in the F2
generation: 12 white, 3 yellow and 1 red. Which interestingly enough
reminds me of the 9:3:3:1 ratio that i looked at with the red podded
peas...(https://keen101.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/screenshot-3-1.png?w=700).
And yes, would indicate that two genes are at play with white fleshed
watermelon.
Mokinu thanked keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)Mokinu
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
Andrea Melani
6 years ago
keen101 (5b, Northern, Colorado)