I would get them to do what you want, and explain again that it is based on a historical home building precedent where different trim levels were used in different rooms, and it is not based upon some strange whim that you have.

I would take things out that you don't like and get it replaced. You may have to come to some agreement and pay for some of it because technically it sounds like you agreed to some of the change. But I would not leave it because it's going to make you mad every time you look at it.

It's difficult, particularly when you work with people who have good technical skills, because often their own personal esthetic is really awful. I have had people work for me who are capable of doing really beautiful stuff, but some of the things they would do left to their own devices is appalling.

I will give you a couple examples: in my old apartment I designed an architectural element that is like the wood-paneled core of Mies van der Rohe's Farnsworth House. Very minimal, and seamless, "floated" an inch off the floor.

One contractor thought it would be really cool that instead of being sheathed in slip matched veneers, to have someone come in and faux paint it so it looked like a gigantic block of marble. Another asked if I was going to dress it up with some kind of panel mouldings.

In my current house, which is 1965 brutalist-modernist, somebody didn't understand why I didn't want to put 6" built-up crown moldings everywhere including a 4 x 7 bathroom. He wasn't at all put off that in many of the rooms the windows are 1" from the ceiling.

I know someone who built a very traditional historically based house, and had the builder really pushing Hard to install the crown mouldings with a cove between them and the ceilings "since they were so high" and put LED rope lighting that Changed Color around the perimeters of all the main rooms. She had to fight over many details to keep them on track because their typical clients were professional athletes who for the most part went for whatever was most vulgar and garish.

I don't know what to tell you except that you will just have to be adamant and they will probably not understand your motives at all.

Sounds like the communication was on point. Who is the boss on this project? Does the builder answer to you or husband?

Builders will often go on a tangent but it's up to the owner, designated person, or an architect to assert his/her authority towards design or final issues.

Thank you for all the responses! The boss and final approver of everything is me. It has been communicated many times. What unfolds with every single contested issue is multi-fold:

1. "Nobody here does it like this". (I don't care)
2. "Women are not involved in construction. They just say "Do whatever" (Again, I don't care, I am involved)
3. "We can build anything", later "It is not possible" (Let me know upfront, we can adjust)
4. "Can you do this?" "We can make it better!" (Please don't!)

We had prior issues with front entry. Transom above the door became a ridiculous mega issue. I had a firm and clear requirement - vertically aligned. We had issues of getting specs - show me the numbers, the measurements of the door parts and transom parts. I would receive half the numbers and be urged to make a decision. Finally, I had to say no to transom altogether. Not a critical issue, but an illustrative example of what is going on there with vendors and tradesmen.

Then there were columns. Again, I research, calculate, measure real life structures, eye ball, think, talk it over with cerebral friends, walk miles and miles analyzing homes around, find the right columns, confirm measurements against my calculations and books as well as read up on materials. "Oh, a local lumber yard has the same column cheaper!" "Is it the same material and measurements (provide refs)" "Yes!" "Great! Same column cheaper works for me. Send me the specs". Receive specs. Local lumberyard column is not anywhere near materials or measurements and proportion of the architecturally correct columns that I found. After going round in circles for weeks, finally everybody faced the inevitable - we must order the columns that I found. (They turned out great and now the builder himself wants to use them on his next home).

Then there was trim. I was ready with trim four months in advance. Asked it to be priced. "Oh, but we want to buy it locally". I am all for buying locally if it is available, would prefer to buy as close to home as possible. I see samples of trim that is creatively carved as inspired by trim of the past, yet missing the deep cuts or proportions that I was looking for. Quality was sadly lacking as well. Four months go by until we all of a sudden get a knee jerk reaction - hurry, quickly, we must order trim. "Well, I am not in a hurry. I was ready four months ahead of time. Now I have all the time in the world until we get it right". It seems the line of thinking was again - put pressure on me last minute.

Then we have a pending issue of a quarter round concealing the seam of the kitchen bead board ceiling. The verdict is that quarter round will look like we ran out of money. I said many times that crown moulding goes on top of the cabinets and having two crowns in the room is like wearing two hats (or crowns) on the head. I know we are trying hard to impress, but I have other motifs in mind - take away the unnecessary, trim away the excess, keep it traditional and simple. My reason is if I do not understand it, then I should not be applying it, as well as if I cannot afford it, I should not be faking it to look what it is not. Kitchen is somewhat simpler because I was smart enough to hire a designer so I can verify my reality and have a little more support.

Can you show them pictures from historical houses or diagrams? I have a series of books that have drawings of actual millwork from actual historical houses, and I am lucky enough to live in an area where they did survey and document some historical houses with drawings that are available online.

I am very lucky to have a contractor who is pretty unquestioning of my motives and esthetics and if there is some difficulty in execution of a particular detail we figure it out ahead of time. That said I am not building a house, I am remodeling one room at a time.

The other aspect of this is that I have to put up with a great deal from him:

He started tiling the last bathroom in December of 2016. He's not done yet.

I cannot express enough gratitude for you comments. I just sent out a freeze on all the trim work until we clarify if back band is a structural issue or "we will make it so beautiful even you won't recognize your house" issue.:)

2 years later I can point to each compromise. I say compromise but what really happened was I got worn down and overwhelmed by the builder. These things do matter.

I always got the concerned look followed by "I think that will look washed out. Nobody does it the same color. Ive never seen trim done like that. You will regret it etc etc." Okay.

Now I keep thinking "when will I tackle refinishing these pocket doors?" I shouldn't be refinishing doors 2 years in.

Finally I just stopped "discussing" which is where I would get worn down. I went to "just do it like the architect drew it."

Good luck!

OK, you're the boss and you know what you are doing. I don't like that the builder is able to coerce your husband into something you don't want. Gives the builder a pass. You guys have to be in agreement. It was difficult for us...

Actually dantastic is correct.

We let it be known from the beginning that anything related to the mechanicals of the house, (plumbing, electrical, hvac, and finance) ask my DH.

Anything related to the design of the house, they are to come to me. When push comes to shove, I defer to DH for his knowledge and he defers to me. And our builder knows who to contact.

Helps in several ways in that they are clear and it keeps us from getting "upset" with one another.

Yeah, discussing works when things are not clear. Here everything is very clear and the out of proportion, rhyme, or reason trim needs to be fixed before we proceed because depending upon how it is fixed, it will impact further trim upstairs. I am also done discussing. I asked for the answer about the structural support issue. Once I get an answer, I will say exactly what needs to be done without any more discussions. All I wanted was simple beaded trim in utility rooms. It seems, from reading all the stories, if it is simple, there seems to be an issue because there is an underlying trend of complicating and adorning things.

Can you post a pic of what they did and maybe the builders on here can let you know if it's needed or not?

You're on the right track. Can you post details of the stool?

Since when is trim structural?

Frustration with trades going their own way despite what you say is not limited to homeowners.

I hate thinking of how many times trades omitted or altered what was on the plans and I didn't notice until it was too late.

Thank you worthy. So glad it's not limited only to us "novices". Sigh

I have too much to add lol

Stand your ground..they'll be annoyed now, but pleasantly surprised in the end..:)

An analogy ... my mom and I have a little side business making wedding cakes. We don't do many cakes ('cause not many people want to pay our prices), but our cakes are completely custom, one-of-a-kind creations, gorgeous on the outside, incredibly delicious on the inside. My own daughter (a cake snob, if ever one existed) was married a few months ago, and did she ever have a lovely cake: Five double-high tiers of cake stacked over a small lighted fountain ... it was taller than me ... handmade white icing lace stretched over off-white cream cheese icing ... a collectible Lennox bride and groom on top, her new initial in silver tucked amongst the ivy and spring flowers and tiny tea lights surrounding the fountain ... five flavors and five fillings inside all that beauty ... but I digress ...

back to my analogy ...

Usually we like the cake we design with the bride ... but occasionally we are commissioned to make something that isn't exactly to our taste. On those occasions, we say to one another, "We're not being paid to have an opinion."

Same thing about your carpenter. He's being paid to produce what's in your mind ... not to push his ideas on you. Whether he prefers X or Y, he needs to get with the program and realize you're the boss.

Thank you for all the support, words of wisdom, analogies, and experiences from you lives! It definitely gave me the energy to ensure that the small and seemingly insignificant details remain as planned. I so hear about getting the fatigue from asserting your vision and plan (I gave up a painted ceiling on the porch after incessant pressure partly because of pressure, partly, because either painted or unpainted both look good). As far as cakes go, I work with people all the time. My job is to let you know what you need to know to make your decision, forewarn you if you may have unwanted effects, but ultimately help you achieve what you would like to achieve even if I do not agree with you. Even when I disagree my job is still to make sure you get where you would like to get.

Came back from the house now. We live a house over so can drop by any time. Drove many points home to the husband who did not get into the details before but now seems to get the point. Bottom stool is about 4.5" wide. From what I gathered so far, the support is necessary on the bottom, not so much from the back band on top. Here is the plan I had. 4.5" beaded casing in utility rooms. It is slightly over sized for what it should be on purpose (our current kitchen has slightly over sized casing and I am used to this look and like it, not too much, and with plainness of the casing it looks good). Then kitchen, entry hall, library would have about just under 4.75" trim - beaded casing with with cove back band. Then Living Room would have same beaded casing with slightly more elaborate back band between 4.75-5" total width. Visually, when you walk into mudroom and laundry now you see just about 6" of "we did not run out of money" moulding then walk into the kitchen with under 4.75" trim and you see it. It is like we are being creative putting columns upside down. All the oomph is in the utility halls and by the time you get into other areas, the feeling deflates.

Attaching some photos. Here is the living room coming to life. The trim on top is crown moulding with a picture rail set at 9" top of crown to bottom of the picture rail (9ft. ceilings).

And here is the moulding in a utility hall that is just about 6" with the drop in the bathroom to under 4.75". You can see a bit of a bottom stool here. There is back band support on the bottom of it. I was lead to believe that back band all around is of vital structural support importance since the bottom stool is wide.

Judging from what you say, the core problem is that your builder is a pushy type, and worse, doesn't have much respect for you as boss of this job.
Input from the people who do the relevant things on a daily basis is truly invaluable, but (a) must be consistent (b) must be backed up (c) must leave decisions to the one making them.
You have a guy who was not consistent (first it's aesthetic, then when that line doesn't work, it's structural) does not back up what he says in any way, and when you disagree, tries to bypass you entirely and get your husband to agree.
The woman comment, seriously? the fact that he's willing to say that of all things, as an argument against what you propose means he'll have a hard time accepting that you are in charge of this job, being a woman.
What to do? Meeting with your husband comes first. Discuss the situation. Agree that building decisions henceforth will be mutual, with exceptions if it suits you.
Then a meeting with builder. Get what you want. To any objections, repeat what you want, like a stuck record. It tires out pushy people.

"... the small and insignificant seeming details..."
"The details are not the details. These make the design." - Charles Eames

The builder is a really pleasant man. I like him and the quality of his work as well as his subs and their enthusiasm about our house. The woman comment came as an explanation from my husband, not as a reproach but rather as a context framework of what's going on and why I may be running into difficulties. The pressure I feel is very covert. It comes from round about discussions, delays in action, etc. oh the ups and downs of building a house. I'm in the down phase.

Love the flat board with the back band. That is what I'm planning.

i can see why you are upset. The 6" (although beautiful) is crowded in the picture.

Aha, I see. I had not know that comment was by your husband, nor the context. That much is true, construction is typically male dominated. like you say, tough, you are involved.
Regardless of that, I still say, though he may genuinely be pleasant, it doesn't sound as if he has the respect required on the grounds that you are in charge. Granted, you're dealing with him, I'm not, so maybe you'd judge the matter differently. This is what it sounds like to me, and if* it is so, it's not a terrible issue. You just need to be aware of it so you stay in control of your build. don't give him the opportunity to go with the view that suits him if you and your husband differ. Rather take some time to come to a conclusion (the two of you) and get back to him

"oh the ups and downs of building a house"
Oh yes, indeed! But hang in there, it will be worth it :)

I hope he's not going to charge a change order fee to fix it back to what it should have been

Just wanted to stop in and say this seems to be the norm as opposed to the exception - at least in our experience. We're still framing but the framers have - on their own - moved things around slightly even at this stage. For example, all of our windows and doors on the front of the house have matching header heights to create an even sightline across the front elevation. We have some really tall windows on the front though, so the framers decided to mess with the header heights a bit to keep the bottom of the windows from being "too close to the floor" in their estimation. They are now correcting them.

It's bizarre to me that tradesmen would do this rather than just pick up the phone and ask. "This window is really tall and is going to be 6" from the floor - are you okay with that?" Yes, that's why the plans specified that header height.

Nearly *all* of our current issues could have been avoided by simple communication. It's not just a problem in construction though. At my job I lead a team that is tasked with improving communication throughout the company. We represent all departments and hitch our horses to various issues that previously seemed to "wilt on the vine" before completion - we pick up where others left off and drag them to the finish line. It's amazing what some simple, clear communication can accomplish.

I'd be so annoyed in your position. You went to the trouble of listing everything out in detail, only to have it ignored. I'd agree with Najeebah that you should just keep repeating what you want (and remind them that what you want hasn't changed - you had a list!). It's your house and your money, and you have to live there. Good luck!

Believe me I'm a very critical person and despite being onsite every day, I still have to keep a very close watch on every detail and minute detail; I'm out on site with my drawings, measuring tapes, long levels plus other required tools and have prevented numerous errors/mishaps or what could potentially be disasters and deviation from my design. We are only up to framing walls; it's a pain dealing with me but it's our home. I have the final say in everything.

Monday morning came and what a relief! We exchanged a few emails and calls, everything is getting fixed. All of this indeed could have been avoided with listening and communication, since we are back to my original plan that avoids extra expenditure where there is no need for it. Thank you again for all the support! I would say, overall, we had a very good experience so far mostly due to separation of what my husband does vs what I do, so there are really no disagreements there since he mostly minds the budget and ensures that my messages get through. The man building our house is a third generation builder whose grandfather did an addition on our current house. He is the most delightful man to deal with. In fact, watching him and other tradesmen makes me want to be part of this business. Still miscommunication and differences of opinion arise. It is comforting to know that this is a common issue because I started doubting myself.

great to hear it's all sorted! wow you have a family builder! :)
yes I can relate, watching a house designed and built, especially by skilled and knowledgeable experts, does make you want to join in!

Good deal. Thanks for updating!