Hi 123,

The long distance between leaves on the zinnia in that last picture indicate that it is stretching for light. Zinnias are a "Full Sun" plant,, which means that they need to get at least 8 hours per day of direct sunlight. I don't see any shadows in your pictures, which means that when you took the pictures your plants were not receiving direct sunlight. Incidentally, those little weeds look very stunted. That's not a good sign. After a few days here in Kansas, once it warms up a bit, the weeds will challenge you to a wrestling match. I think your first challenge is to grow good weeds. Just sayin'.

ZM

They were never indoors. I had them in a small greenhouse outdoors, I repotted the plugs into bigger trays and let them grow some more, then put them in the ground. They've all flowered and are branching. It just seemed odd (for this newbie) that they were spontaneously dying. I was afraid of disease or pests, but I don't see anything.

Oh and should they not be long? All the pictures I've seen of uproar zinnia look long. This particular plant, though did not develop as pretty as the rest. The others are branching. I water once a day if it doesn't rain. The day is overcast (it's going to rain) so no shadows. But they only get 6.5 hours of hard sun. Will that be a problem? Our fence is 10ft and facing east so they get sun from 8-2:30 then the fences shadow covers them. I should know this for next years plan.

Hi 123,

" Oh and should they not be long? All the pictures I've seen of uproar zinnia look long. "

I don't know what it means to describe a zinnia as "long". Could you clarify that?

ZM

Hi Zen,

I was referring to the comments about the distance between the leaves. I think it was mostly this particular [dying] plant that looked leggy. The others don't look quite as leggy and have good branching, but the distance between the last set of leaves and the actual bloom looks long on a few Should it not stick out so much? I don't get it though, because they are in the same bed with the same sunlight, etc. why are they growing diffeently?

Hi 123,

Hey, great photos !!! Very helpful.

" I was referring to the comments about the distance between the leaves. I
think it was mostly this particular [dying] plant that looked leggy.
The others don't look quite as leggy and have good branching... "

Yes, your pictures show some good-looking well-nourished zinnia plants. Uproar Rose is an F1 hybrid, and should be and is very uniform. I think the stretching you are seeing (and we are seeing via your good photos) is due to your 6½ hours of direct sun. Full sun is 8 hours or more, and all three of your flowers, zinnia, cosmos, and marigolds, are "full sun" plants. If a zinnia plant is getting full sun, it can be very "non-leggy", like this one.

We did rent a place once that had the entire yard full of trees and was completely shaded. And I was wanting to grow some tomatoes and zinnias, so I used a pole saw to high-prune the trees to at least let some light through. I didn't want to kill any trees, but I was fairly aggressive at pruning them to open up some sky. I got maybe 4 hours per day of direct sun where there had been none.

Still not nearly enough to grow zinnias, but I was determined and did some online research. Sun promotes photosynthesis, which converts Carbon dioxide and Water into Sugar, which the plant then uses in many ways. The chemical stuff that happens inside a plant is mind-boggling complex. But I noticed that Glycerine was one of the intermediates that was formed that wasn't incredibly complex and also had the advantage of appearing on the shelf at a drug store (or in the drug department of a grocery store, including Walmart).

There are many different sugars, and they have different molecules, but fortunately ordinary Sucrose (table sugar) was a sugar that was common in plant internal workings. So I decided to try to supplement the Sun with a foliar feeding of Miracle-Gro Tomato Food, Sugar, and a little Glycerine for good measure. And I included a little Physan 20 to keep that from fermenting and becoming an on-plant science experiment. There was some Physan 20 serendipity, it also acted as an effective wetting agent. By spraying that mix on every week or two, I got a decent (but not impressive) crop of zinnias in a scary shady environment. I did make some crosses between those, and save seeds.

I was growing a garden of hundreds of zinnias, so that could very well be way more trouble than would be appropriate in your situation. But I thought you might be interested to know that you can fight the shade.

" ...but the distance between the last set of leaves and the actual bloom
looks long on a few. Should it not stick out so much? I don't get it
though, because they are in the same bed with the same sunlight, etc. Why are they growing differently? "

That is a mystery. Uproar Rose is an F1 hybrid, so your zinnias should be very uniform. Long stems are considered desirable for cut flowers -- they stand up out of a vase better. I don't see any obvious micro-climates in your photos. Maybe the limited light has something to do with it. When something weird happens in my garden, I always blame the Chupacabras.

ZM

Ha! If only the Chupacabras would attack those annoying weeds rather than my flowers!

I don't mind trying your mix even if it's for a few plants. If it doesn't work I'll find time to dig out a better location for next year. Of course, I'll never see them from the house again. You've been helpful, thanks!

Hi 123,

" I don't mind trying your mix even if it's for a few plants. "

If you want to try the "mix", this is a formula. In a gallon of water add 2 teaspoons Miracle-Gro Tomato Food, 1 teaspoon sugar, 1/2 to 1 teaspoon glycerine, and 1 teaspoon Physan 20. If you get any of the Physan 20 on your hand, wash it off. It's not dangerous when diluted -- some hospitals use it in their mop water. The concentrated form might be harmful to your hand. I get some on me all the time, and I just promptly wash my hands.

Those proportions are a little on the weak side, but it is better to be a little too weak than too strong with a foliar feed.

You can apply it whatever way is convenient for you -- sprinkling can, pump up sprayer, trombone sprayer, whatever. If you use a hose-end sprayer, it can be a bit complicated figuring out what to put in the sprayer bottle to get the desired concentration coming out the end of the sprayer. That varies for different hose end sprayers, which dilute their bottle contents differently. At one time or another I have used every method mentioned. They all work.

If you omit the glycerine and/or the Physan 20, the Miracle-Gro Tomato Food and Sugar combination will still work reasonably well. Apply it every week or two, or immediately after a rain to replace what was there before the rain.

" If it
doesn't work I'll find time to dig out a better location for next year. "

If it doesn't work satisfactorily to grow your Cosmos, Zinnias, and Marigolds in that location, you could switch to ornamentals that don't require Full Sun, like Coleus, New Guinea Impatiens, Waxleaf Begonia, Impatiens, Lobelia, Love-in-a-Mist (Nigella), Nicotiana, Scarlet Sage, Black-eyed Susan Vine, Wishbone Flower, and Pansy, to name a few. There are lots of ornamentals that would feel right at home in your semi-shady spot.

ZM

Hi Zen,

Another one dropped and it's a different kind. This time it's a Zinderella. I noticed a canker on the base of the stem that I recognize from before. Does it tell you anything? Is this a pest or disease problem or just friction?

btw, thank you for the formula measurements. I will most likely move the zinnias and replace the bed with shade tolerants. I started the zinnias and cosmos for cut flowers and the zinnias are becoming my favorite flowers. I keep bumping into the zinnia breeding thread here and in Dave's Garden and realized you have all the advice. Your Zinnia hybrids are AMAZING!

Hi 123,

" Another one dropped and it's a different kind. This time it's a
Zinderella. I noticed a canker on the base of the stem that I recognize
from before. Does it tell you anything? Is this a pest or disease
problem or just friction? "

That looks like a classic case of Sclerotium Root Rot. Also known as Southern wilt, Southern blight, or crown rot, depending on which plant species is being attacked. When it is a zinnia, it is usually called Southern blight. It is caused by a soilborne fungus (Sclerotium rolfsii) that occurs primarily in the southern states. The following material is quoted from page 769 of The Ortho Problem Solver, Seventh Edition (2008).

"It usually attacks plant stems at or just below the soil level. Infected plants wilt, turn yellow, and decay as the fungus spreads throughout the roots and stems. White fungal threads that surround or cover infected plants produce oxalic acid, which kills healthy plant cells, allowing the fungus to gain entrance. Sclerotium forms yellow or tan pellets that resemble mustard seeds. Under adverse conditions, these sclerotia pellets and fungal strands survive in the soil and plant debris to reinfect healthy plants when conditions become favorable. This disease is most severe in warm (80°F and up), moist, sandy soil that is low in nitrogen.

Control Once plants become infected, they cannot be saved. It's best to pull out and destroy infected plants and remove the soil in the diseased area and 6 inches beyond. You can discourage rapid reinfection by making the soil unfavorable for fungal growth. Add a fertilizer and liberal quantities of compost, leaf mold, or other organic matter. Clean up and destroy plant debris to eliminate the fungal pellets."

I haven't seen Sclerotium here in east central Kansas. Apparently our Winters are a bit too cold for it. Below zero Winter temperatures are not uncommon here. So we don't have Fire Ants, Killer Bees, or Armadillos. I suspect our Chupacabras migrated here from Texas. (grin)

" I keep bumping into the zinnia breeding thread here and in Dave's Garden... "

I also have a zinnia breeding thread over at the National Gardening Association in their Annuals forum. I like the way they show big pictures better. Here the tall format pictures can't exceed the monitor height when you click on them to enlarge them. That limitation doesn't occur over at NGA.

ZM

I pulled up a few plants that looked sick and left the area alone. Everything seems to be doing fine so far. It was mostly the cosmos and marigolds that struggled. Overall, I'm getting bigger stronger blooms from all of them, but the marigold blooms are still not quite there. I'm not impressed with the Zinderellas, either, maybe they need to mature some more. I may not grow those again.

Hi 123,

" I pulled up a few plants that looked sick and left the area alone. Everything seems to be doing fine so far. "

It is interesting that just doing that worked. Thanks for passing that information on.

" I'm not impressed with the Zinderellas, either, maybe they need to mature some more. I may not grow those again. "

Unfortunately scabious zinnia types in general tend to have a low percentage of blooms that "come true". The Zinderella bloom type should look something like this photo (which, incidentally, is not from a Zinderella packet). It is one of my current indoor "breeder" zinnias.

ZM

The last picture is a Zinderella. I planted half a peach packet and half a lilac, but neither one looks like your picture. Even if I got some Proper blooms, their seeds won't give me the same results, right? I'm still waiting on a few to bloom.

Hi 123,

" The last picture is a Zinderella. "

I suspected as much. That is a sadly disappointing specimen.

" Even if I got some Proper blooms, their seeds won't give me the same results, right? I'm still waiting on a few to bloom. "

If you should happen to get a true-to-type Zinderella, by all means do save seeds from it. There is a good chance that they will breed true. There is some variation within the scabious bloom type. The guard petals (the normal looking single row of petals that begin the bloom) can vary in size and length. This was one of my scabious types last Summer.

So, if you do get a "real" Zinderella, by all means save seeds from it.

ZM