Mine would defoliate right after the first bloom. New leaves would come in but the black spot was constant once I quit my spray program. Mine was a huge bush not sure how it would grow in your neck of the woods. By large I'm talking 5x5 if I remember right.

Mine grew fine here in th PNW......and we tend to generate a lot of fugal issues :-) Some back spot, yes - no rose beside the rugosas are immune from this in my climate - but it was no worse than on any other rose and much better than some. No rust at all.

I'm not sure if this would apply to you but I do not grow my roses in a dedicated 'rose garden', which I am convinced just spreads and accelerates disease and pest issues. Rather, all my roses were interspersed among other plants - shrubs and perennials mostly - in a mixed border. Plenty of air circulation. lots of sun and a rich soil.

Abraham Darby is my favorite of all the Austins and I would grow it again in a heartbeat except I now live in the woods so more shade than sun and it is just too large to grow well in a container in my few sunny areas.

So you got rid of it patty ? Can you suggest a good apricot for no spray ? Though to be honest I am probably going to get it and torture myself . It's just too irresistible!

Garden gal , I mix lots of perrenials as well and for shrubs I love butterfly bushes so I do have some diversity but it is a lot of roses ! For this one though , it'll be by itself, I'll take a photo ( but it'll be a bad one for sure ! ) . Back when I thought I would make giant beds around the pergola , I planted teasing Georgia not on but a couple feet in front of the pergola. I had a partner on the opposite side but the summer I couldn't take care of my garden a lot of roses were killed by mower guys and weed smothering. TG survived and is way too big to move so I am trying to get the area looking good again ! :) thanks for your help both of you !!

What about one of the Westerland sports? They aren't perfect, but better than Abraham Darby. You might be able to grow it no spray.

Just why are antifungal sprays so evil? They're not insecticides so they wouldn't be killing beneficial insects. I've never understood this. Diane

I would put in an AD. It is very unlikely rust will be an issue for you in TN as it also was probably not a problem in your former PGH. area garden. I have grown every imaginable rose here in W. PA, for over 50 years, and have never had rust on any of them. Now hollyhocks and figs (edible), get rust here routinely, but I believe they are universally rust prone in any hot, humid climate.

The major fungus disease here (as I believe it is for you in TN), is BS, then Downy and Powdery Mildew. Both of these two later fungi are not encountered here frequently,_as I believe you will not be bothered with them much either. BS is a constant, formidable enemy. You may go with the Bayer product, or go organic with Serenade.

I have heard mixed reports about Serenade's effectiveness. It works by frequent spraying of Serenade to keep a strong presence of a bacteria upon the rose leaves' surfaces that controls the development of BS...it sets up a hostile environment for BS. I think the reason for it not being successful for some, is their failure to apply Serenade frequently enough. Washing off in rain/watering means the necessity of reapplying it rather frequently.

Since it is organic and if frequent spraying to be effective is a probable must, why not go all out and spray as needed? It isn't hurting anyone. I intend to try Serenade myself this year in my garden and at my niece's garden.

I was planning on buying Abe this year!

I don't spray any of my other Austins like Jude the Obscure (apricot), Heritage, Sharifa Asma, Everlyn, etc.. Is Abe particularly bad for some reason?

Scent-sation is a very clean apricot but gets bigger than the descriptions state in warm climates.

Nanadoll, would you call your gorgeous Evelyns apricot?

I spray all of my Austins. Most of them get BS and the ones that don't defoliate still get spotty (Teasing Georgia). I love Abe and I think it will do ok even if you don't spray. You have a lot more hours of sunlight in TN than you did in PA so it will do better.

I don't think fungicides are evil. They need to be used carefully and judiciously. I usually spray every two weeks, but sometimes I have to miss a week, or when it gets to hot that BS cannot survive, I hold off spraying. All in all, I find that preventively spraying works well instead of responding to a BS outbreak.

Thank you !! I don't think the sprays are evil at all ! I didn't mean to imply it . I just don't know anything about using them nor do I feel like I'll be using them . I will see what I can read about in the store that's available.. I just never bothered with them before . Diane do you have one you recommend? Buford ? Thank you!

I guess I should have done more research on Abe . I believe I remember hearing it couldn't be grown without being a diseased mess but it seems I remember wrong ! Entirely possible for sure :)

I'll be picking him up as well as Violet's pride tomorrow:)

I don't spray at all and the black spot pressure is really high in Florida. I don't get much black spot on Abe at all. I don't know why. If I was to ever spray anything it would be NEEM oil spray. Neem has some anti fungal properties as well as being used to smother bugs and paralyzes the jaws of grasshoppers and such. It is natural from the NEEM tree. The bad thing about oil though, is you can't spray when its over 8oF or something (I forget exactly). I haven't sprayed in a few years maybe more though. Half cuz I'm lazy and half due to being on well water and having critters here that I don't want to spray lol. Rust and powdery mildew have never been an issue here so I can't really comment about that. I'm not super picky about everything having to look perfect because its a farm and stuff isn't going to be perfect anyways lol.

Its funny, the roses that do get a little black spot shed their leaves quickly and replace them very quickly. I've never had anything completely defoliate here. If I see a few yellow or spotty leaves I spray them hard with the hose and they will fall off. No problem.

I quit picking off any yellow or ugly leaves by hand when my JPJll got the saddleback caterpillars last year. Learned my lesson the hard way on that lol.

Lilyfinch, Violet's Pride has been great here with no-spray so far.

Sultry, that's great to hear on Abe because I'm dying to try him!

I'm in an area with humid summers & some roses do get bs, by the late summer & early fall. My abe had no bs. But I also plant my roses with minimum 6 hours of sun. I think that really helps a lot.

Every area/garden is different so sometimes you just have to try a rose bush yourself to see how it does... Actually nobody can really answer your question as to how it would do in your garden...

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do..

I've always wanted to grow Abe as well. However, last spring I saw all of the plants at my local nursery have rust and didn't bother to buy it. The last thing I want is more fungal problems. I've only experienced rust on one of my roses and got rid of it after grown it for a few years. Rust is usually not a big problem in my garden but I don't want it to be either.

I was concerned about this, too, Lilyfinch before growing Abe. I have 4 - 3 in the garden and one potted. The three in the garden did wonderful and had some blackspot on the lower 1/4 to 1/3 of the shrub late in the season only. Pretty darn good. The potted one didn't fair as well late in the season as it was in a damp environment on the deck but it bounced back quickly. I'd give it a try and see what you think.

jjpeace - I wouldn't judge a potted nursery plant on disease resistance too harshly. They are almost set up for failure with often overhead watering, water stress, lack of nutrients, etc. I've seen some awful looking, supposedly disease resistant plants that, once I get them in the ground, they perform wonderfully.

Lilyfinch, I was just trying to rock the boat a bit and came off sounding harsh. I didn't mean to imply that you think fungicides are evil. And I don't use them because we don't have fungal diseases here on roses, so I should quit feeling so self righteous. I do feel there is sometimes confusion on the forum about sprays because fungicides are not the same as insecticides. If my roses got blackspot, I would use fungicides.

LL, I think Evelyn is mostly apricot and is called that by David Austin. But pink Evelyn roses do show up fairly regularly. They are lovely, too, cause she's most always lovely. I'm in love with Evelyn, so I'm not biased--ha. Diane

Lilyfinch, how has Abe been for you this time around?

I have enjoyed Abe so far JC ! It isn’t perfect but the blooms are great . I like the fragrance a lot too . Ext year will be it’s 3rd year so I’m excited to see how much better it is . It hasn’t gotten to its full size yet or close , I’m still hopeful it will mirror teasing Georgia in size . I’ll look for pics but they may be hard to find in my sea of pink roses

Lilyfinch, I just removed a four year old AD this August and I regret it already. It was right in the middle of my patio and it was always completely defoliated and very ugly by late summer, although it did continue to bloom. I really wish I had moved it to a less prominent position as it was lovely in the spring. I may order one from Grace Rose and try again. Maybe grow it with a short Clematis. With all the color threads lately on the forum, I have been going through my photos a lot only to discover that AD, along with Lady of Shalott, was one of the most photographed roses in my garden.

Deborah, that sound like a great idea for roses that defoliate later in the year, but are gorgous before and give a lot of blooms. I find on those planted further away that I only notice their blooms and general form. I have two less than stellar Darcey Bussell surrounding my birdbath, but keep them because they always have multiple blooms and look so pretty with the other plants. A clematis may do the trick to hide the sticks.

Now I'm really sad my AD cutting didn't root. : ( Maybe this year.

I am also trying to remember that when roses displease me in the heat of summer I should just cut them back and wait until spring before digging them up. Live and learn.

Would a short boxwood hedge hide the defoliation?

Deborah, sometimes it’s best to yank them when you despise them most . For years I hung onto ballerina ..the blacks pot cycle was never ending and so frustrating. But every spring in bloom I enjoyed it so much . Finally dug it out and I just enjoy my photos now .

Jc I don’t know .. boxwood has a blight issue and I never wanted that in my garden . I don’t think it defoilated for me. Just lost some leaves but not badly . My flower photos I posted were taken in August and the leaves look pretty good I thought

They look amazing. thanks for letting me pester you about overly specific stuff so often