Brom leaves browning from edges, any ideas?

7 years ago

Got this guy off the uglies rack at the big box hardware store, lower leaves were all browned and dehydrated to a crisp, I assumed because it (and all the others) was dry as a bone. Took it home, trimmed off all the dead stuff... And a month later the same sort of crispy dry has been creeping in from the edges of the leaves. Doesn't seem to be restricted to the oldest/lowest/outer leaves, as there are some leaves totally unaffected outside/lower than affected ones.

No sign of pests. Ambient temp between 60-65, house humidity tops out around 35%, which I know isn't optimal (it's 12* F right now... You bet the heat is running!) but its in a mini-greenhouse, lots of water trays in there, I mist, keep the potting mix slightly damp, and fill/rinse the cup weekly. I have not repotted (read they weren't fond of it) but the medium looks to be along the lines of what I see sold as an 'Orchid Mix'.

This is my first Brom, so its new territory for me. The closest I can think of is how spider plants get brown tips if they're watered with tap water that's not aged... But this isn't just the tips, actually some tips are still green with the brown further up!

Any thoughts ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Featured Answer

splinter1804

7 years ago

last modified: 7 years ago

Hi everyone.

Kamereone – On first looking at the picture you’ve posted it
seemed to me the problem was due to water being on the leaves and the plant
being exposed to strong sun or other sort of heat which had resulted in
scalding. But then as I read the text
where you say, “Lower leaves were all browned and dehydrated to a crisp, I
assumed because it (and all the others) was dry as a bone.” This then opens up
other possible causes.

When you buy brom’s (or any plants for that matter) always
feel the weight of the plant and pot; if it feels exceptionally heavy and the
surface of the mix looks damp, there’s a very good chance your plant is water-logged
and the potting mix in the lower part of the pot could be like mud. This is
usually due to continued over-watering or a mix that isn’t “open” enough to
allow good drainage; alternatively, if the pot has been on the ground it may
have worms or curl grubs which have found their way into the pot and broken
down the soil which has consequently clogged up the drainage holes.

On the other hand, if the pot feels exceptionally light and
appears dry, it’s very likely the plant has been under-watered or more
probably, not watered at all for some time. It takes some time for potting mix
to dry out completely and as a result it eventually becomes de-hydrated. When it
gets to this stage it is extremely hard to re-hydrate it once again, and during
this period the plant continues to suffer and becomes de-hydrated as well and
starts to die. You say these plants were “dry as a bone” which indicates they
are suffering from serious de-hydration and if not rectified quickly could be
fatal.

In either of these scenarios, “over-watering” or “under-watering”
the first and most important thing to do is knock the plant out of the pot and
examine the roots and the potting mix, and it’s here you will usually find the cause.
In the case of excessive watering, the main problem will be water-logged and rotting
roots.

In the case of extreme under watering the main problem will
be de-hydration and dry dead roots. This is often coupled with a secondary problem
and that is “Root Mealy Bug”. This is a small insect that thrives in dry
conditions and feasts on the plant’s roots thereby adding even more to the
plant’s trauma.

In either case the first thing to do is remove all dead and
dying roots and in the case of the water-logged plant, allow the base of the
plant to dry out for a couple of days by standing in an empty pot and just misting
it occasionally and make sure there is some water in the central leaf axils.

With the de-hydrated plant, it needs to be quickly re-hydrated;
this can be done by soaking in a bucket of water to which a cup of sugar has
been dissolved. (I have used this mixture for many years on both orchids and bromeliads
which have often arrived by mail in a de-hydrated state. It definitely does
work, and helps re-hydrate the plant more quickly). If possible completely
immerse the plant for a couple of hours or at the very least partially immerse
it and occasionally push it under completely. It can stay in this state for a
couple of days after which it should be re-potted in fresh mix which although well-draining
will still retain some moisture. It should then be moved to an airy environment
out of any full sun.

You say, “And a month later the same sort of crispy dry has
been creeping in from the edges of the leaves”, and you go on to say, “I have
not repotted (read they weren't fond of it).

Firstly let me set the record straight; re-potting bromeliads
won’t do them any harm; and as potting mixes have a limited life, they need to
be replaced every few years or when the plant out-grows the pot.

You didn’t say if you had taken any or all of the
precautions listed above. If you don’t do this, the problem will be on-going if
it’s caused by the existing potting mix.

There is another cause for dead leaves and that is chemical
burning where the plant has come in contact with some type of chemical
(accidently got some overspray from a weedicide) or more commonly come into
contact with copper or boron (which in an amount greater than trace elements
will be fatal to the plant). The most common cause of this is contact with CCA (Copper Chrome Arsenate) treated timber, whether it is touching the timber or water is dripping off the
timber onto the plant below; either way may cause chemical poisoning.

There really isn’t a way to reverse this poisoning that I am
aware of; obviously the most important thing to do is move the plant from the
source of contamination, and then treat as above (remove any dead or dying
roots and re-pot into a new potting mix).

If the poisoning is only mild, some of the leaves will possibly
continue to die back, and apart from looking untidy, normal growth will gradually
return with the production of new pups. If poisoning is severe, all of the
leaves will die and the plant will appear dead. In cases like this, don’t throw
it out! I have seen what seems to be a lifeless plant still produce a pup or
two. If the poisoning is extreme, the plant will just continue to decline until
it eventually dies and nothing can be done to save it.

All the best, Nev.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (17)

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
7 years ago
Be aware that as the bloom fades the leaves will all die off and the original plant will be replaced by new pups. Also check the potting soil it is in. It looks very peaty and may hold moisture too long. Broms like a very loose, free draining mix.

tj
Related Discussions
Gardenia with brown edged leaves
Q
Comments (19)
6 ft from window is equivalent to darkness or deep shade at best. Gardenias need a lot of light. Like any plant in a pot it needs a well drained soil. Most of the pictures in this thread probably can be attributed to bad peaty soil that retains water indefinitely. I used to grow Gardenias and never had a problem. Now I have a dwarf gardenia instead and I like it even better. Here is a pretty recent pic. It is still outside, was 38F last night. It is may be 5 years old and blooms mainly in spring but does have some blooms rest of the year. Woolly aphids and mealies love the little nooks and crannies. Alcohol spray is the safest for these guys but I will use horticultural oil a few times a year.
...See More
Yellow Leaves, Brown Edges on Fuyu Persimmon Tree
Q
Comments (4)
Put overhead and western shade over it first leaf if this is on the south or west side. You won't have to bother with overhead shade next leaf as it hardens off, though western shade may be a good idea for the 2nd leaf. Keep in mind as well that with sandy soil you may need to water frequently, using multiple emitters around, or just outside the canopy line but not for long to reach that 3 foot depth. The tips look like salt burn/underwatering. Salt burn would be unusual in sandy soil unless you have been fertilizing. But since it looks like it is on new leaves I am thinking iron deficiency. I am interpreting it from a close up photo without seeing the whole tree or knowing whether it is localized to an area of the tree. I do not know how common iron deficiency is in your area. In my area iron deficiency is almost always due to high pH but in your soil it may actually be lack of iron. Either way initial treatment is with chelated iron (preferably Fe-EDDHA). If high pH is the cause then adding soil sulfur and building up the organic content of the soil over time with a surface mulch is the cure. This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 18:10
...See More
Black Tulip Magnolia has browning leaves - any ideas?
Q
Comments (7)
"This tree was planted about 2-3 months ago, with ammended soil in full sun." Generally, it's not good to amend the backfill soil when planting trees or shrubs. Amendments frequently cause drainage issues and root development problems. "I'm not sure what type of fertilizer it has been given, but nothing within the past week." Trees and shrubs don't often need to be fertilized. Improper fertilization can cause serious problems or death of the tree. Have you had a soil test that indicated a need for additional nutrients? When you say it hasn't had any fertilizer in at least a week, it sounds like it may have been receiving mega-doses of something prior to a week ago. Surely you aren't fertilizing the poor thing once a week! "It was watered for between 30 min to 1 hour every other day and looked fine until a few days ago." Wow, that sounds like a lot of water! Have you been checking soil moisture in between waterings? I don't know what kind of soil you have or how much water you have been supplying, but your description definitely raises a red flag for way way too much water. Are you sure you are not drowning the tree? Trees can die from too much water as easily as from too little. With the information given, it's impossible to say for sure what's happening with your tree, but it sounds like overwatering may be a likely suspect. Other planting issues may also have contributed to the problem. Details of how the tree was planted (planting depth, condition of roots at planting, how the roots were conditioned for planting, type of native soil, relative amount and type of backfill amendment, etc, etc) might lead to further insight. You may also want to carefully read the article linked below, for future reference and for possible help in further diagnosis. Here is a link that might be useful: Planting a Tree or Shrub
...See More
edges of leaves browning
Q
Comments (3)
Well, I had started watering less often... And that possibly got rid of the gnats. However, I checked the roots and they were perfectly healthy and the soil was at a good moisture level... And the leaves browner in a much different manner than I have observed in an under or overwatered plant. Usually I have seen a leaf start browning at the tip and evenly spreading towards the petiole. But if you look at the picture I posted, it started browning along the center of the leaf margins and spread in a blotchy manner which I found odd.
...See More
Jayvee Chun (Manila Philippines, Tropics)
7 years ago
Hi. The orchid mix is proper since bromeliads largely don't grow in soil but attached to other plants.

When you water, do you water the medium? The need water ON THE LEAVES vs the roots as they absorb moisture and nutrients from the foliage, especially the central tank in the center. I suggest you keep the tank 1/4 to 1/2 full and change the water every few days.

As for spraying, that would be great as they like moisture and humidity.

Another possibility is that your guzmania is dying. Bromeliads are monocarpic--meaning the lifecylce of these plants entail them to bloom, die, then produce offsets to continue the cycle. So this may simply be it.
splinter1804
7 years ago
Hi everyone.

Jayvee - That's good advice you've given, especially the fact that bromeliads are monocarpic; unfortunately, I sometimes tend to overlook the obvious.

Regarding the watering; as I don't live where I have to grow plants inside I'm not familiar with indoor culture so really can't give experienced based advice on watering plants inside, except to say that it's best to take them outside and water them there if possible..

Growing outside is different story as you can splash plenty of water around with no problems. I always water the "whole plant" from overhead; including the underside of the foliage, (many insects like this drier part of the plant for breeding, and watering this area will act as a good deterrent).

As I said I water the whole plant including the potting mix which I water until the water runs right through and out the bottom of the pot. The main thing is not to "over water"; over-watering is not caused by the volume of water given, but by the frequency that it's given, and the old nurseryman's rule was that if in doubt as to whether the plant needs watering or not, leave it for another day or two rather than risk over-watering.

Remember that in nature these plants are growing on trees (as mentioned by Jayvee) and it doesn't matter how much water they get as they dry out quickly due to the abundant air circulation. This is not the case with pot grown plants and it's up to us to assess when watering is required. This is an observation that only comes with time and practice, but one of the best guides is the weight of the plant and pot. With practice you will soon be able to judge by the weight if the plant needs watering or not.

The other very important thing I omitted to say in my previous post is to NEVER let a plant sit in saucer of water as this is a recipe for disaster in the form of ROT. You are best with a deeper saucer with very coarse gravel in the bottom so that the plant sits up on the gravel and not in the water. Any water in the saucer will provide extra humidity which is beneficial as it's usually lacking with inside-grown plants.

All the best, Nev.
kamereone thanked splinter1804
Jayvee Chun (Manila Philippines, Tropics)
7 years ago
Hmm. Well given it is blooming, it is reaching the end of it's life cycle of blooming and death, which gives rise to pups.

However, maybe it is in too much sun? It needs dappled sun, bright but not direct. Guzmanias like bright filtered sun, unlike Neoregelias which can do almost full sun.
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
WOW. You guys are awesome, that is a ton of great information! THANK YOU! I'm going to follow splinter1804's suggestion and unpot, trim back dead roots, and give it a good soak, since it definitely sounds like I'm dealing with a dehydration issue.

The method for remedying too-moist roots sounds great too - I don't know why I never thought of just letting soggy roots "air out" - it sounds like the same concept as letting a cutting "scab over" before attempting to root it. I'm certain it's a technique I'll find use for!
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

Well we're out of the pot, some finer particles than I was expecting in the potting medium, and some compaction at the bottom. Thinking I'll dry out the mix a bit and sift out some of the real fine stuff.

None of the roots were brittle enough to break off, but I'm sure some sections are dead as they were at the surface.

Otherwise not too sure what I'm looking at... Input greatly appreciated :)

edit: Better photos...
splinter1804
7 years ago
Hi everyone.

Kamereone – I’m not quite sure as the pictures are a bit
small to see the finer detail, however I’m seeing small areas of white
speckling which may or may not suggest an insect pest called “Root Mealy Bug”.
As I say, I can’t be positive as the detail isn’t clear enough. If it is Root Mealy Bug, it's only a very slight infestation.

What cause me to suspect this is, that plants grown indoors seem more prone to this pest probably because the environment is drier than it is outside and these inspects thrive in a dry environment.

When you took the plant from the pot was there a whitish fine
web like substance on parts of the inside of the pot? If so, this confirms that
you do have Root Mealy Bug.

Below are some pictures of root mealy bug infestations which you can use for identification purposes.

ROOT MEALY BUG SHOWIUNG A CLOSE-UP OF INDIVIDUAL INSECT

AN EXAMPLE OF A SLIGHT INFESTATION

TWO EXAMPLES OF SEVERE INFESTATIONS

If you do have Root Mealy Bug, it isn’t the end of the world (or the plant);
just clean as much of the old potting mixture as possible away from the roots
and mix up a bucket full of a good quality contact/systemic insecticide
suitable for killing this pest and immerse the whole plant for an hour or two, then remove and allow to air dry and leave overnight before re-potting.

I find this more effective than spraying because:

(1) I don’t like spraying toxic chemicals around where
the spray drift may get on things where it’s not wanted and cause further
damage. e.g. good insects, birds, lizards, fish ponds etc.

(2) Unless you spray the whole plant thoroughly including
the roots and the foliage (including under-side of the leaves), you can’t be
sure of a good penetration especially around the roots. By immersion, you reach
all parts of the plant without contaminating surrounding areas.

(3) Spraying certain insecticides have been associated
with the killing of the honey bee population in some parts of the world;
admittedly this is mainly from aerial spraying, however it can still be harmful
to bees and good insects when sprayed indiscriminately around the home garden
as well.

I don’t know what insecticides are available in your country
but below are two which are widely used by home gardeners here in Australia and
both are effective against Root Mealy Bug when used as directed.

CONFIDOR, is an effective systemic spray but contains IMIDACLOPRID
which is fatal to bees - http://www.yates.com.au/products/pest-control/insects-ready-to-use/bayer-confidor-insecticide-ready-to-use/#YYLgOq1wEwlk8qzA.97

MAXGUARD – is a three-way spray; it is systemic, contact
and residual and is made up of different ingredients than Confidor and is not a not a scheduled poison.

https://www.scottsaustralia.com.au/scotts-brands/defender/defender-pest-control-garden/defender-maxguard-insecticide/#Features3301

Remember to always use insecticides as directed and with extreme caution and always wear the necessary protective equipment.

All the best, Nev.
kamereone thanked splinter1804
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Gotta love tech, had a whole post with pictures written and the page refreshes and POOF! all gone...

No evidence of mealy bugs, so I'm going ahead with the rehydration bath splinter1804 outlined above, though I'm not certain of an appropriate sugar:water ratio, so I went on what I think is the low side (~2tsp:gal), though I can't imagine a super crazy high concentration would cause any harm?

edit: NM on the concentration, it was covered and I missed it, "soaking in a bucket of water to which a cup of sugar has been dissolved."

though I've come to realize I may need a different clarification... Is the bath roots and all, or foliage only? I assumed the former, but now I'm conflicted due to the implication it can be left submerged for quite a while ("It can stay in this state for a couple of days") which seems a lot like the forbidden roots-in-standing-water. I'm guessing this is one of those fine line situations, swimming is ok until hydration is achieved, and then its time to get out of the pool?
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
On the topic of mealy bugs, while I'm pretty sure that's not an issue in this case (no webbyness in the pot, etc), I believe I've seen similar before on houseplants while visiting family; on orchids, some succulents, and walking iris IIRC. I've seen some of those "spikes" that supposedly are just stick-and-forget and claim to address mealy bugs - any experience with those?
splinter1804
7 years ago
Hi everyone.

Kamereone - Regarding the treatment of de-hydrated plants
using the sugar and water method. I soak the whole plant (or as much of it as
possible).

As plants absorb moisture through their roots and leaves
alike, it stands to reason the more of the plant that can be soaked the quicker
the fluid will be absorbed. Usually I soak the whole plant, but with tall
plants where they whole plant won’t fit in the bucket, I place as much of the
lower half as possible in the mixture and fill the centre well of the plant
with the mixture as well as occasionally taking the plant out and inverting it
so that I can dunk the upper foliage as well.

The ratio quantities of sugar to water aren’t critical
nor is the amount of time immersed, but I like to keep them soaking for at
least 2 -24 hours (or even up to a couple of days) depending on how severely
dehydrated they are. Usually the plants I’ve treated were plants that came in
the post and they had been wrapped in newspaper and packed in a box for several
days; in one case, a little over two weeks when the parcel went astray, and
even those plants after a couple of days of this treatment responded well and
after a week or two you would never have known they had been severely
dehydrated.

When the plants first arrive and were unwrapped, they
look a bit like a butterfly when it first comes out of its cocoon; all squashed
up and wrinkled. After an hour or two in the mixture the wrinkles seem to
gradually disappear as the leaves straighten themselves out again and return to
their normal shape; again the comparison with the butterfly fresh out of its
cocoon is a good example.

You mention those, "spikes that supposedly are just
stick-and-forget and claim to address Mealy Bugs”, I’ve never seen or heard of
them here. But I did read where as an alternative to toxic chemicals, you can
sprinkle “Fossil Flour” (Diatomaceous earth) on the top of your potting mix and
water it in and it will kill Root Mealy Bug.

I did a trial with this last year when I found a plant
with Root Mealy Bug after knocking it out of the pot in preparation for
dividing and re-potting. I cleaned off as much of the potting mix that I could
and removed about half of the roots that were covered in the root Mealy Bugs
and re-potted in fresh potting mix and new potI sprinkled about ½ teaspoon of Fossil Flour over the top
of the potting mix (it was a five inch pot and as the fossil flour is very fine
you don’t need very much, just a dusting) and then added a topping of fresh mix
and watered in well.

When the plant was knocked out of the pot again after six
months, there was no sign of any active root Mealy Bug (even under a
microscope) and I was so pleased to have found a natural insecticide that didn’t
harm other insects, It’s now become part of my normal re-potting routine and I use
it on every plant I re-pot as a preventative.

To read more about this natural product, go to : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

CAUTION: As
it’s a very fine powder you should take the same precautions you would when
using any other dusty products and wear a dust mask with an appropriate filter to
prevent inhaling this powder.

All the best, Nev.
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
(pardon the brevity, I'm about to scream at the internet, typed a response here TWICE with photos to have them vanish...)

brom bathed. potting medium sifted through window screen. Photos hopefully explain themselves.

hitting submit and crossing my fingers!!
splinter1804
7 years ago
Kamereone – I’ve had posts get swallowed up on me so many
times when posting on various forums it almost drove me mad. What I do now is
type my message in M.S. Word and then when it’s finished I just cut and paste
to the forum, that way if the forum “eats it” you still have it and don’t have
to type it all over again.

Now back to the main topic; I can follow what you are doing
OK but my question is, “Why are you sifting the old potting mix?” I hope you
don’t intend re-using it for your bromeliads, because this isn’t a very good
idea as any disease, Root Mealy Bug or other harmful insect eggs etc. will just
be passed on the plant that’s potted in it. If you suspect a problem with any
plant, definitely don’t re-use the same potting mix.

It seems OK to re-cycle it and dig it into the garden although
in theory, the same thing could happen. However I know many growers who do this
on a regular basis and they don’t have any problems, perhaps because it’s going
into another area and another micro-climate which may eliminate these problems,
but I don’t know for sure.

There is of course another line of thought followed by many
of my orchid growing friends and that is, if the plant is in good health and
growing well, they often mix in part of the old potting mix with the new as
they say this has all the good bacteria and by doing this you are giving these
bacteria a “kick start” to build up in the new potting mix. I don’t practice
this method myself so I can’t advise from experience. But I definitely wouldn’t
re-use your old potting mix.

All the best, Nev.
kamereone thanked splinter1804
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
I'll admit to being a slacker in the reuse regard... Most times I'll sun bake soil till it's so dry it won't condensate in a plastic bag if left in the sun, and that (knock on wood) seems to have been working out.

Of course don't have that option this time of year, and while I considered putting it on the dehydrator or in the oven, I was getting antsy about soaking too long or leaving in the open air, so both those thoughts flew from my mind and I repotted in the (un baked) old stuff yesterday. Oops.

And I now am just remembering that there's a half-bag of orchid mix in the barn from back when Gran was around and still able to fuss with plants.

Which is worse, reusing mix, or using mix from a bag that's been sitting for who-knows-how-long among other bags of soils, mulches, and seed in a moist barn and has probably been visited (or inhabited!) by mice? Maybe it's stayed continuously dry and unmolested; still old and potentially exposed to whatever grew on other bags. Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I know... Suck it up and go buy new stuff...

Thanks for the reminder on the perils of reusing mix!
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
7 years ago
Old unused mix should be fine but look at the mix. Many orchid or succulent mixes are still too peaty and need to be mixed with extra perlite.

tj
kamereone thanked tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
splinter1804
7 years ago
Hi everyone.

Kamereone - Just to add to tsugajunkie's comment above about old unused potting mixes; because many are organic and contain natural fertilisers, they will break down naturally even though they aren't supporting a plant, so it's pretty important to know just how old it is, because if it's too old there will be insufficient nourishment left to adequately support a plant. Also because these old mixes are dried out, they are hard to satisfactorily re-hydrate again. Also beware of breathing the dust!

All the best, Nev.
kamereone thanked splinter1804
kamereone
Original Author
7 years ago
How does one determine if a mix is "too peaty" - is sitting out the fines a sufficient solution?