Another person here who is sick unto death of discussing these things on a public forum where they easily turn rancorous. Yes, try Hot Topics.

I personally don't mind discussion. I avoid hot topics precisely because of the negativity over there. I will try to respond to your questions tonight when I have time Annie, though I will say once again I am not a Trump supporter. If you want discussions to remain civil, it might be better to avoid labeling anyone and simply ask what people think.

I believe we will just have to agree to disagree and move on here at KT.

Can moving on be done without expressing it? ;) Cause when you stop and post, it's staying there, not moving on. Get it? I'm really kidding.

Roseberry Ranch

I
agree. All that is being accomplished by debating pros and cons is
only succeeding in bringing about even more division than ever.

Begs the question ... why do you post there?

I didn't watch the State of the Union this morning.

State of the Union address isn't until February 27.

The OP was referring to our current state as a union.

I would like to remind everyone that this forum is the Kitchen Table. Just like in real life, conversation around the kitchen table is about everything and anything. However, politics is often not a conversation at some kitchen tables. I vote to cool it here for awhile. I have added the description of this forum

This a place where you can chat about topics not covered by the other forums. Like, why is one leg of the table always shorter than the other three?

I think any contributions complying with the site's rules are fine. There are no forum sheriffs. other than the moderators who enforce site rules. I'm not sure why some of you think you can claim that role for yourself.

There are plenty of threads that don't interest me. Some are on topics I think are about personal feelings or beliefs that I think don't belong in a secular and public conversation. Unless I'm so offended that I feel the need to speak up, which has happened a few times but only a few, it's easy enough to ignore a topic of no interest. It's like programs or movies on your TV. If the content or other features of a show bother you, change the channel or thread, as the case may be.

I think ep's post is right on.

1. How are people feeling about the voter fraud investigation? I am confused. Our President said there was no fraud while Jill Stein was investigating but now there is fraud? What's your take?

I think Trump is overly concerned with being popular. When he was making his "no voter fraud" statements during Jill Stein's investigation it was before all of the final vote tallies were in, so he wasn't losing the popular vote (at that time) by the huge (or is it yuuuuuge) 2.8 million vote margin that we have now. So it wasn't a concern to him them. But now that his ego has taken a hit he is not willing to accept it. This is (in my opinion) a very childish reaction, but it is to be expected from someone with the emotional maturity of a 6-year-old.

His daughter Tiffany is registered in two states (New York and Pennsylvania); his son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner is registered in two states (New Jersey and New York); his White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer is registered in two states (Virginia and Rhode Island); his chief strategist Stephen Bannon is registered in two states (New York and Florida), although he seems to have gotten himself off the registration rolls in Florida this week; and his Treasury Secretary nominee Steven Mnuchin is also registered in two states (New York and California). Does Trump think that these five committed voter fraud? Of course not. And he shouldn't automatically assume that anyone else who is registered in two states committed fraud or that persons unknown committed fraud by voting under the name of a deceased person whose name is still on the voter registration rolls.

2. How are you feeling about our relationship with our neighbor Mexico and the possibility that we the taxpayers will fund a 12 to 15 billion dollar wall through either Congressional appropriation or a 20% tariff that gets passed along to the consumer?

People in the USA should not have to pay for the wall in any way, shape, or form and then expect to be reimbursed at a later date. Won't happen (the reimbursement, that is).

Are you aware of the fact that if the wall is built as Trump wants, it will, by necessity, have a section built not on the border, but on US land? Near Brownsville, Texas, the middle of the Rio Grande is the border. You can't build a wall down the middle of a river, so the wall would be built on US land. There is a golf course there, and 13 of the 18 holes would end up on the Mexican side of the wall. This would also mean that approximately 200 residents whose homes are built around the course would no longer have access to the rest of the USA. I guess since it's not a Trump golf course, he doesn't care.

3. How do you feel about our President saying that he would support torture?

Copy and paste what e p wrote above, and sign my name to it, too.

4. The few details we have about Trumpcare indicate that those with pre-existing conditions will lose healthcare if they have a lapse in coverage. I think that is scary! What do you think?

I think my husband and I are incredibly lucky that we have the retirement pensions and healthcare policies that we do. Yes, we are both on Medicare with supplemental policies, and I know that Trump and the other Republicans want to mess with Medicare, so I am thankful for our supplemental policies.

Yes, I am concerned about the folks with preexisting conditions. SO many people have some sort of preexisting condition, and the older folks get, the more common it is. Preexisting conditions aren't limited by age, though. Think about young women who have had some sort of reproductive issue, or young male athletes who have had concussions from football, etc. They could easily be eliminated from coverage, too.

5. How do we feel about the President's demeanor? Are you happy with the way he is representing us to the world? Twitter diplomacy? Do you think there are actions he should be taking to heal/unify our nation?

As I said in my reply to the first question, I think Trump has the emotional maturity of a six-year-old. I don't make that comment lightly. I have a 63-year-old sister who is on the autism spectrum, and Trump's behavior is so like my sister's. Totally self-centered; if their day wasn't totally perfect (in their minds), it was a horrible day; they don't care if what they want (to them, what they need) is inconvenient or detrimental to anyone else because, after all, it's all about them; they can't let things drop (as in Trump's inability to accept the fact that his inauguration crowd was one-third the size of Obama's in 2009, having to respond on Twitter to any perceived slight), etc., etc.

In response to your last question in Item #5 -- yes, he should resign, and commit himself to a hospital for evaluation and treatment.

It has helped me to remember that our new President is a wheeler-dealer, lifelong New Yorker. He's succeeded all his life with bluster, exaggeration (positive and negative), and staying in the spotlight by whatever means available to him.

His promises are vague, sometimes ridiculously impossible. He can't say a sentence without exaggeration. He denigrates any 'competition'.

This *requires* push-back, over and over: No...No!...NO! Absolutely-Positively-Never-Ever! STOP ALREADY! NO!

A comment/question regarding being registered to vote in two states: When I moved to Virginia, I did not notify the voter registration people in Maryland that I was moving out of state. Since that time, I have only voted in Virginia. I have no idea if Maryland still has me on the voter rolls (after 23 years).

If the problem of dual registration is as bad as people are insinuating now, I hope the federal government can find a way to solve the issue--even if it means requiring every voter in every state to re-register...and set up a national voter registration database. I also support voter ID laws...with free ID to any who do not already have it.

I posted here because I thought everyone has been pretty civil as well as honest. There are a lot of folks here that I believe are good thinkers and express themselves thoughtfully. At times, I too am tired of politics. However, I am trying to understand others. I am actively looking for places where I can have open dialogue in person with others BUT that is even harder to find! I appreciate all of you for taking the time to respond even if you didn't want to engage in further dialogue.

Wanda - it's not against the law to be registered in two states - as long as you do not try to vote twice in the same election. I'm looking for Maryland's registration process, but I doubt you are still on their rolls. Usually after a certain period of inactivity voters are purged from the rolls. You can look it up here https://voterservices.elections.maryland.gov/VoterSearch if it worries you.

When we lived in FL, you had to vote every so often to stay on the voter rolls. I just checked my status in FL ( we moved out 27 years ago) and they have no record of me being registered. Good. I wish we had strong voter ID laws.

I think Ohio is the same as Florida for current voter registration, although our governor took some flak last year for purging the rolls. The only ID I needed to vote was a driver's license. My grandmother, a staunch Democrat who never had a driver's license, kept her picture ID updated, just so she could vote.

1) Trump is already President, he can't advance any farther, so I
think any taxpayer money spent on investigating voter fraud is wasted. If he wants to pay for the investigation, OK, but it wouldn't change anything, except a long shot at massaging his ego.

2)
I wish we had the same relationship with Mexico as we seem to have with
Canada. Although I have no idea how to achieve that, I don't think a
wall and a tariff is the answer.

3) If we support torture of our
enemies, I fear that our military, and citizens who are captured by
terrorists, will suffer in retaliation. And other countries who do not
support torture will be less likely to ally with us when we need them.

4)
I agree with you that it's scary, and with every word of Lindsey_CA's
second paragraph. Even though Trump has stated that pre-existing
conditions will be covered by his plan, I don't know that he can keep
that particular promise.

5) There are actions he could take
to begin unifying our country, but I don't know if he is capable of
seeing us as one nation as long as he knows that the majority of voters
did not vote for him. I hope he doesn't start 'rewarding' the states he
carried in the electoral vote, and 'punishing' those he didn't, although
I live in a state in which the majority of voters chose him.

On a personal note, his demeanor--the forward posture and scowl, the paranoia and seemingly endless obsessing over perceived slights,
and his late night/early morning contradictory tweeting--remind me of
my aunt, who had Lewy Body Dementia. I wonder if he suffers from REM
sleep disorder (a common indicator of future diagnosis of LBD), since I
read that he would often travel long distances to be back home at night.

I
watched his joint press conference today with the British Prime
Minister, and it struck me that at least twice he referred to her by her
first name, even though she made a point of referring to him as 'the
president', and after the second time he called her Theresa, she seemed
to shoot a quick look at someone in the audience, maybe a member of her
own press corps. It made me wonder if he is that clueless about
diplomacy, or if he was trying to 'put her in her place'. Even though she
is his equal, and was sharing the spotlight equally, he needed to feel that he
was superior.

I also read that one of his spokesmen Rep. Cris Collins of NY referred to other government employees as 'his [Trump's] employees'. Did he start paying their salaries? They aren't his employees--they are our employees, and so is he.

I offer these thoughts without vitriol, or
name-calling, or blame. I've posted before that I have voted for the
Republican candidate as often as the Democrat, so it's not a party
issue. It's the man that I don't like, or trust, or respect, although I
will give him his due if he proves me wrong.

This conversation is greatly appreciated, and sadly the discussions are going to continue for a long time. Everyone needs to take care of their mental health regardless of what forums are participated in, and taking a break at any time can be restorative.

1) Investigating the 'fraud' is wasteful. I question the possible ulterior motives, which may be to tighten the voter registration requirements "to prevent future fraud." As this usually ends up making it prohibitively difficult for poorer people to register and vote.

2) If there's a tariff to pay for the wall, then its us, not Mexico, paying for the wall. I fear supporters want the wall and don't care who pays for it.

3) Can't even. Says he'll defer to Mattis. Maybe its a "good cop" "bad cop" setup. See how that works on detainees. In the re-opened secret prisons.

4) DH has a preexisting condition so I'm looking at going back to work for the sole purpose of saving that money so he can eventually retire and we can afford to keep him alive.

5) I'm disappointed and feel his ungracious, rude, crude, twittering demeanor sullies the office of President. I think he let Theresa May lead the press conference today because he didn't know what he was doing. He managed to plug his Scottish golf course during the press conference. The initiation fee at his Mar-a-Lago club just doubled. The crassness of promoting his wife's jewelry line on the POTUS website, refusing to divest, says to me he is mocking the office of the President of what we'd like to believe is the greatest country in the world. His need to be the biggest, the best, the most awesome is going to get us into a lot of trouble. I don't think there's anything he can do to heal or unify; its just impossible given the way he'd have to gloat about doing it. He is inherently a divider.

1. The voter fraud investigation is a waste of time and money. Stop acting like a petulant child Trump, you won.

2. Mexico wall- ugh. Mexico kind of irks me. I wish we could have the same kind of relationship with them that we do with Canada. But we don't. Mexico depends on us and frankly, leaches off of us. Every time anything comes up about illegal immigration in our country, Mexico weighs in and tells us to stop persecuting their people.

Their people that they know broke the law to come here and benefit from our social services, paid for with our tax dollars; their people who send billions back each year to their families. Of course Mexico doesn't want us to hinder any sort of border movement. I don't see untold millions sneaking across the Canada border into the US illegally. I wonder why? Maybe because their country is just as nice as ours, some might even say better, so they have no need.

Mexico should fix their own country so their citizens don't want to leave.

An expensive and useless wall is not going to stop anything. I can't blame them really. If I lived in the border towns of Mexico I would probably do everything in my power to escape as well. They are extremely dangerous. When I was a kid, it was no big deal to cross the border and visit Mexico. I wouldn't dare do it now though.

America's immigration system is despicably flawed and in desperate need of a major reform. As a country, it is foolish and dangerous to continue to ignore the problem. Patch jobs of granting amnesty to millions doesn't stop the problem though, it exasperates it.

All it does is send a message, you don't need to bother coming in legally, just get here and stay under the radar long enough that they won't kick you out.

What about those people who are doing it the right way? They wait months, sometimes years to get here. Why are we giving a pass to everyone else that cheated? All that does is encourage more cheating, and I'm not just talking about Mexico, I'm talking about illegal immigrants from all over the world, those who overstay their visas, etc.

We should be making it easier for people to come here legally. We should be encouraging open legal borders.

Walling ourselves off, figuratively and literally, isn't going to fix the issue. Ignoring it hasn't worked either, please do something but by god, make sure it is actually useful and helpful.

3. Torture- I wish I could post a gif right now because it would be one of the "no, no, no, nope, nuh-uh, no, no, no" running away gifs. Seriously?!?!? Not only is it resorting to medieval brute tactics and horribly unethical, it is also ineffective. Why on earth would anyone, let alone the president of our country, condone such tactics?

4. Trumpcare- honestly I need to do some more research. I saw that Rand Paul has presented an alternative that heavily favors HSAs but I don't know much beyond that.

5. Demeanor- see everything I've written above. I will say that I have been watching him and I've noticed a distinct difference since he actually won. I think the best descriptor is "deer in headlights". I don't think he actually expected to win and I think he has been scared blank-ness since he did. He doesn't have a clue what he is doing and it shows. But the fact that he actually tweeted

"Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."

Is probably the most "presidential" thing he has done so far and that is saying something. I wonder if he actually wrote it? ;)

Where is the Garden Forums? I can't find it. What is it under? Why would 'Hot topics' be there???? That makes no sense.

E P said it succinctly and perfectly. The man has a mental disorder which should preclude him from being president. He's a narcissistic sociopath and just watching him at the news conference today made me nauseous. I know quite a few people living in other countries who feel the same way. Let's just say George W. Bush moved up a notch from worse president ever. He has been replaced in one short week.

Robin0919 -- no matter what page you are on (e.g., deciding which of the Home Forums to read; within the Kitchen Table deciding which discussion thread to read), if you go to the top of the page, at the upper left you will see this:

Here is a link to Hot Topics:

Hot Topics

Lily316--do you watch Van Jones The Messy Truth? Just curious. I really enjoy it.

This video of Lawrence O'Donnell's commentary/Last Word/MSNBC/1-27-17is interesting, and covers several of the points above. A report on repeal of ACA starts about halfway through. (I've read that MSNBC leans left, but I find them informative, and they are not my only source for news.) I also enjoy Rachel Maddow--not necessarily her delivery, but her background info.

These Executive Orders that are supposedly protecting us from terrorists are ridiculous. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, yet Saudi Arabia is not on the list. The Boston Marathon Bombing terrorists were from Russia. Also not on the list. Many terrorists have been US citizens, some born on this soil.

The lack of empathy is horrific. There are innocent children dying every day through no fault of their own. If what was happening in Syria was happening here, our perspective would sure change pretty quickly and we'd hope other countries would help us.

He's also giving priority to Christians from those countries he's blocking. There are billions of Muslims in the world and the vast, vast, vast majority of them are not violent terrorists but merely people wanting to survive and have a decent life.

We study the holocaust in history books and wonder why no one saw it coming, no one stood up and no one helped until after millions died. I wonder what the children of the future will study about this time.

Hot Topics is in the Garden Section because they don't tend to use their "indoor voices". ;)

People who witnessed this happening in Germany in the 1930's have written extensively how a despot weasels his way into power. Bannon is the mastermind behind much of this as Trump is too busy concerning himself about the size of his crowds, badgering the park service, and fretting how the woman's march was four times bigger than his inauguration.

Anne, I love Van Jones but have never seen The Messy Truth. I'll have to watch it. Rachel can be longwinded getting to the point but she and Laurence are probably the smartest commentators on air. Compare her to Hannity which is where the right gets its news that explains a lot. They interviewed a group of Trump supporters and they said they liked ACA a lot but hate Obamacare. Ha!

When you move from one state to another, is there a requirement to let the Voter Registration organization know that you are no longer eligible in the former state? Sure I could Google but thought that others might know off of the top of their heads.

"When you move from one state to another, is there a requirement to let the Voter Registration organization know that you are no longer eligible in the former state?"

There is a PDF voter registration form available online that is acceptable in every state (there are pages at the end giving the address in each state to which the form should be mailed). There are actually two versions of the form included in the document. One is a fill-in PDF, meaning that you can type in the information on your computer and then print out the form and mail it in. The second is one that you have to print out, and then fill in the information by hand. There is a place on the form(s) where you indicate where you are currently registered. Presumably the state to which you submit the form will notify your former location (whether it is in a different state or just at a different address in the same state) that you should be removed from that registration roll.

We live in Massachusetts. Each year we receive a census form from our town. If not completed and returned, we are advised we will be removed from the voter registration roll.

We just use the US census here in Texas for census (or at least every town that I've lived in).

Our voter registration is linked to our drivers license. We get a VR form every year in the mail that has to be completed or a box checked to certify that our residence is unchanged, signed and mailed in. We get the VR card back in the mail and it and a photo ID are required to vote. Our name also has to be located on a master list and we have to initial our name when we step up to vote. The photo ID isn't an issue here. We have a law that requires all adults 18 and older to have photo ID on them at all times.

Interesting that different locales handle VR according to statewide rules.

PKponder- that is interesting. I've never gotten a form to complete. I do get my voter registration card in the mail and I do have to have it and my ID to vote though.

I've never understood how having to submit an ID could be a difficult thing. Every person I know has an ID. You have to have one to work, to drive, to write checks, to go in adult establishments or purchase alcohol or tobacco. It isn't an undue burden to show proof of who you are.

Since I've live in PA my entire life, I know I'm not registered anywhere else but here. But I believe the law here is if you don't vote in three consecutive elections, you are dropped from the list of registered voters. I could be wrong because I never not voted in every election in my life. Interestingly though, some of Trump's own people have double registrations including son in law who actually was registered as a Democrat as was Ivanka so neither voted for daddy in the primary.

Canada doesn't have the poverty that Mexico does and quite frankly most Canadians don't want to live in the US. For most of us our quality of life would take a hit.

Having said that - I couldn't ask for nicer neighbours. So thanks for being you.

Who, other than someone inside the Board of Elections, knows there is a registration going unsued? Who knows they can send a 'ringer' in to vote, using MY registration?

Investigation of this (already proven non-existent) 'problem of voter fraud' is an excuse to create and extend abuses of citizens' rights.

It's a complete waste of time and money. He already won. His ego just can't stand the fact that he didn't win the popular vote. The man who claims to have evidence about the voter fraud won't release it. Convenient.

People with green cards coming back into the country can't get in. He's ruining the very values that America is known for. Banning refugees is not going to help terrorism. Many terrorists have been US citizens. Maybe rounding up anyone foreign-born will be the next step. I guess Melania will get a pass.

Terrorists attack America because they hate America. This isn't helping. He's making enemies left and right and it's only been a week.

In California they do not (I think they cannot) ask for ID when you vote. But, you must sign "the book" under your printed name before you are given a ballot. Allegedly, the signatures are compared to the signatures on the voter registration cards and if one doesn't match up, someone has to do something. What, exactly, I don't know.

Before every election, we each get a sample ballot mailed to us. I always take that sample ballot with me when I vote. When I get to the table where I have to give my name so they can find my name in the book for me to sign, I show the person my name on the sample ballot. Our surname is one that very rarely is spelled correctly by anyone who doesn't know us, so it's easier to show them the correctly printed name rather than spell it out loud for them and still have them get it wrong and not be able to find us.

Compared to everything else the government spends money on, a wall would be a small drop in the bucket. Several years ago I read that the federal budget included a billion dollars every year to subsidize domestic cotton farming.

How many people here are aware that Mexico has a wall on its southern border?

Compared to everything else the government spends money on

$2.4 trillion in Afghanistan. Killing, maiming, destroying property and cultures.

$billions spent on the infamous drone program. Killing many to get one.

But a wall is immoral.

Pk ponder, you have to have a photo ID on you at all times? Yes, while driving for sure, but otherwise????

I thought both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were immoral. The wall? I think that's just silly.

ID in Texas

parker25mv, what is your source? Mexico does not have a wall on it's southern border. The pictures circled around Facebook are of the wall already in existence between the US and Mexico in Arizona, or the West Bank barrier.

If you look at Google maps, you can clearly see that there is no wall. Snopes has disproved it as well. http://www.snopes.com/mexico-guatemala-border/

I wonder how many people let these "alternate facts" influence their votes. I wish people would do a little more research.

@PK Ponder - there isn't any state, including Texas, where it is against the law to go without ID... you cannot be engaged in any activity that requires licensing without carrying that license (so no driving, fishing, boating, carrying a weapon...) but if you are just out and walking around you do not need ID, nor are you even legally required to identify yourself to anyone unless you are under arrest.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/02/do-you-have-to-carry-id-with-you-at-all-times.html

http://blog.uslawshield.com/when-you-must-id-in-texas/

I stand corrected! My entire life, I've understood that all adults in Texas must carry photo ID. Yes, I always have my ID on me when I leave the house. I even tuck in in my pocket for walks. Now I have to research whether that was never the case or whether it has changed since I turned 18!

I have never used an ID for voting or for anything else. We do have to sign under our printed name when we vote and it's compared to previous signatures.

PKponder, here is an article on "Stop and Identify".

While I haven't ready every post in this thread, I will say I agree with ep and Lindsey_CA.

How do I feel? I'm heartbroken, sad, afraid and disgusted with our current president. Do I respect the office? Yes, I do. Do I respect the man? Not at all!

I firmly believe we must all stand up and let our voices be heard. The very principles our great (STILL GREAT!) country were founded on are in danger.

This is no time to remain silent!

Resist!!!!!