Did you see this post by Curdle from down undaaa?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4307091/rose-garden-photos?n=11

In the post, there were a few photos of two different roses pillared up the same post. I particularly like the look of a small and larger flowered climber of the the same color climbing up the same post.

It would depend on how much room that left under the pergola to hang out without being stabbed by thorns... but I say go for it! It could look fantastic!

Thanks Cori Ann. I forgot to bookmark that post. The main problem would be picking the colour scheme as they're all so beautiful. Love the first pic. I wonder how they attached them. That thread reminded me of a couple from earlier in the season that have had me thinking for months and eventually led me to consider an arbor since I've always wanted one and have the space. I need to review your posts to see what you're growing, but our zones are so different. : (

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3971951/little-and-big-small-roses-and-their-big-sisters?n=9

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3569631/ideas-for-a-climber

I had a vision for my North wall, but since it's not going to work with the original roses as imagined I'm transferring the colour scheme to the pergola: light blush pink, crimson and med pink, mainly because there are so many roses in those colours that I want.

My deep red roses WILL be Cl. Crimson Glory, Cl. Etoile d'Hollande, Fields of the Wood and Ramblin' Red. For the Pinks, I'm thinking of Nahema, The Wedgewood, Cl. Caroline Testout, Cl. Shot Silk and possibly Cl. Clotilde Soupert, Parade, Blossomtime, and Setina. The jury's out on those.

Update: We were typing at the same type,smithdale. Your pergola sounds beautiful. I'd love to see pics.

Vaporvac,

The only climbers I am growing now are Lady Ashe and Madame Isaac Pereire. Here is my list of those with which I have had a good deal of experience, though (ask me about any of them specifically, and I will gladly oblige).

Lady Ashe

Red Fountain

Cl. Don Juan

Fourth of July

New Dawn

Westerland

William Baffin

Carefree Delight (yes, it climbs, 10' canes)

Joseph's Coat

Zephirine Drouhin

Altissimo

Jeanne La Joie

Darlow's Enigma

Conrad Ferdinand Meyer (stiff, incredibly thorny, 10' canes, if you like a good fight, this is your climber)

Roseraie de L' Hay (ditto for RdLH)

E. B. Le Grice

Dr. W. Van Fleet

Madame Isaac Periere

Thank you Moses! I welcome your expertise. The only climber I know well is New Dawn (I have 5!) and now Viking Queen which I love.

I have Aloha on order so would love to hear your opinion of Lady Ashe as they are related, I am considering her for a NW wall with full Summer sun, but could put her on the Pergola if need be. Jeanne La Joie has captivated my imagination for using in a combo perhaps with Aloha so please share the details! Did you grow DE as a climber or large bush? I grew two from bands for a friend, so I could get cuttings. I will have to look up Red Fountain....does your MIP repeat?

I am in Cincinnati. Where are you?

My response to your original question is that how many roses you put at each point on an arch depends on which roses you are planting. If one of them were Quadra, you'd get only one or two spots for a very modest climber on the other side, since that rose would eat your arch. On the flip side, if you have climbers that are only marginally hardy in your zone you'd need a lot more of them to fill the space, and many of them might not climb. So as always, it depends.

Among the crimson roses you're considering, I have both Ramblin' Red and Field of the Woods and they should be nicely hardy and climb well. There is some speculation that they are the same rose (since FotW is a found rose), so they will be highly similar if you use both and you could put one on each end of your arch, or use another rose if you want more contrast. Etoile d'Hollande is marginally hardy for me (the bush not the climber in my case), so the climbing version of that might be a bit short for you, but you have another zone warmer than me to protect it. Crimson Glory (not the climber) is pretty hardy for me but not a frequent bloomer, so I imagine the climber would be even less frequent. I'd say both the latter roses are more for accent than for continuous bloom. So far, Quadra and Illusion are the closest to continuous bloom in the crimson range that I have, though FotW is coming into its fourth year and we'll see if it ramps up beyond the sporadic bloom I get so far.

Among the pinks, I have Cl. Mme. Caroline Testout on my main arch and she grows well for me, though is more of a sporadic bloomer than regular one, partly because she loses canes over the winter most years. In zone 6 she might be more regular. Nahema is fabulous and a more regular bloomer for me, as well as more prolific blooms when it does. Shot Silk is totally not hardy even in the zone 6 part of my yards so I'd be very cautious about expecting that one to climb in a true zone 6. I haven't grown The Wedgewood. Clothilde Soupert (the bush) is fine for me and blooms sporadically, but even in my dry climate I have to think of her blooms as round since that's the way they always look - she ALWAYS balls, but it doesn't seem to stop her. Blossomtime wasn't hardy for me but I only tried it once - it'll probably survive zone 6 but might not climb well. Parade has survived fine but it's only in its second year, so I can't tell how prolific it is. The color scheme tends more toward crimson than light pink though. I've never grown Setina.

I agree with Moses' recommendations for climbers and I've grown most of the ones he mentions, though a few won't survive for me - like Don Juan, Fourth of July, and surprisingly New Dawn, though Coral Dawn does OK. Aloha is definitely a keeper and well worth considering for your arch, as it has reliable medium pink blooms all season and survives zone 5 quite well as a climber. I also have Lady Ashe/Dixieland Linda and it's a tough rose well suited for our climates that is hopefully coming into more prolific bloom here in its fourth year. Colette is another climber in that color range that would do very well for you, as does the related Lunar Mist for me in a yellow. Jeanne LaJoie climbs very well for me and is hardy, blooming off and on all year with a heavy spring bloom and sporadic after that. The color scheme is very close to Aloha, though the blooms on JlJ are smaller and more clustered. DE is a massive low-care bush for me but I can't imagine him climbing under the best of conditions. He wants to be about 8' tall and 4-5' wide in my yard under very harsh circumstances. Put him where he has to duke it out, including part shade, and he's perfectly happy. My MIP never reblooms except for one stray August bloom this year, after 6 years of growth. She only blooms on surviving cane, which she doesn't always have in zone 5, but she should be fine for you in zone 6. Expect mostly spring bloom from her. I grew Red Fountain in my old yard and it has a growth pattern a lot like Jeanne LaJoie - small crimson clusters on thin long canes with mostly all summer bloom, though mine was rambling rather than on an arch.

Just my two cents of course!

Cynthia

Vaporvac,

LADY ASHE has the same cast iron flower as Aloha, just more peachy/amber yellow complementing the dominant light to medium pink. Fragrance is very good, but not exceptional like Double Delight, by comparison. The flower is quartered, very heavily petaled, and high like a layer cake, not flat. It lasts for ages on the bush.

LA is definitely a climber because of its cane length, but there is a stiffness/rigidity to its canes, unlike a typical climber. Its hybrid tea origin is showing in this regard.

Mine blooms all summer just like a hybrid tea, starting with a heavy spring flush and strong show right into winter. It was my heaviest blooming rose this past spring flush. Right now it has a few blooms on it in exhibition stage. LA does get black spot for me. I spray. The first spring flush yields blooms 3-4 to a cluster on 12" laterals. All summer I get single blooms on stems up to 3' long, great for the vase! LA is a climbing HT, just like Don Juan.

It is tip hardy with no protection here. It has reached 6' in each direction on a 4' fence (12' across). This is its 4 th. year in my garden, planted in spring, 2013, as a 1 gal. from Chamblee's. I believe an additional 2 ' in both directions (16' total fence coverage), will be its mature size in a couple years.

Interesting thing about LA is when the wide, flat, not pointed, flower buds are starting to show color the petals are so short you think the flower will be 2" across, max, a bull nosed bloom. Through the unfurling process the bloom grows like a mushroom to 4"+ across, SURPRISE! This characteristic never ceases to amaze and entertain me. Aloha blooms like this, too.

I grew Aloha but they never climbed for me, all three of them.

Will LA work on a pergola, blooming overhead? The flowers do point up, and especially after the first spring flush at which time it blooms in clusters, it changes to hybrid tea mode for the rest of the season with single blooms on very long cutting stems that will be easy for a crow flying overhead to see, but not as easy for you to see standing on the ground.

I think you need flowers that nod on short stems for your pergola so you can see them from below. Your pergola is one place nodding bloomed roses will shine forth turning their liability into an asset.

OMG, you guys! This is like reading a treatise! I need to pour myself a hot beverage and digest this info. I can't thank you both enough for taking SO MUCH TIME to write such a detailed response. Whew! I'll see if I can link or post a pic of my "inspiration" pergola, although mine will be a bit smaller. I keep forgetting to measure the space.

Vaporvac,

RED FOUNTAIN is a cross between Blaze and Don Juan. It inherited its rich fragrance from Don Juan, and cluster blooming trait from Blaze. It was popular 20 yrs. ago, and is rarely seen today. It is essentially a very fragrant version of Blaze, and not much different other than its fragrance. I think the red color of RF is much richer and more vibrant than that of Blaze's blooms. It gets black spot like a lot of roses from years ago do. I would pass on RF.

JEANNE LA JOIE is probably the most profuse flowering rose there is for its first flush. It is a mini climber, pushing 12'+ canes easily. One plant can easily cover a child's playhouse in 6 yrs.

Mine were so profuse of buds for the first annual flush that about half way through their development, before blooming, about 1/4 of the green buds would spontaneously abort. It looked like someone had cast large green garden peas beneath the roses. I suppose it 'knew' it could not possibly support all the buds it had produced. This was with plenty of sun, water, and nutrients. Even still, the foliage was 90% obstructed by the outrageously profuse flowering of those that remained. Each flower is almost perfect exhibition form, very heavily petaled and could win mini queen if shown. Thus is the spring flush, now comes the bad news.

For the rest of the season it's 'What happened to you?' Lots of very long, 14" laterals come with a cluster of about 5 flowers at the end of each. Basically a few flowers here and there. Remember, this is a mini rose flower on a monsterously large plant. Just a few little blooms here and there make a puny showing. If the flowers were 4", then maybe it would be OK. Looks very sparse and raggedly all the rest of the time until next spring. I think exhaustion is the reason. No matter how it was pruned in early spring, severely in an attempt to limit the first flush flowering, or lightly to make it disperse energy to more shoots...no success. Determined to grow it's own way reigns.

DARLOW'S ENIGMA is a less refined climber for a difficult spot where few other roses will thrive. For a focal point rose it does not make a strong statement. A good climber for back somewhere. I grew it as a pillar, big mistake! Too big for a pillar and not showy, IMHO. It has lots of twiggy growth which means just minimal pruning in spring to remove dead growth or aged, declining canes. Trying to prune it for a pillar takes hours of fussing with the twiggy stuff, and what do you get, a wild looking rose. Grows effortlessly, though. Good for the side of a barn or a shed, or cover an eyesore.

MADAME ISAAC PERIERE is loved by some (me), and hated by others. It is not a particularly attractively shaped bush or climber, somewhat this way, that way type of growth. Charming to some, annoying to others. Somewhat shortish laterals on some flowers do produce lovely , heavy petaled blooms with an intoxicating scent. Good repeater, shapes up better as a mature bush, but what doesn't? Black spots really big time. Is she troublesome or eccentric? I am a push over for fragrance so...

BTW, nodding flowers are part of the deal with MIP, this may be an advantage for you, Vaporvac. This rose is worth a try.

Vaporvac,

May I direct your attention to a little known, little grown climber that I rate very highly. This rose is E.B. LeGrice, a Hybrid Bracteata.

A more profuse, continual blooming rose of any class, yet alone a climber, which characteristically are stingy on the repeat bloom after the first flush, I have not yet discovered. Winter hardy with no protection, long 14'+ canes, profuse double blooms that are lovely in all stages of bloom, even full open, and no black spot, are E.B. LeGrice's strong assets. In particular, at the full open stage the center petals are neatly presented showing the beautful boss in a refined fashion few other roses' full open blooms possess.

Its flowers are not huge, 3" or so and about 20 petals each. Light pink in bud, when full open the color is not bold, cream with a slight yellow cast. Its scent is weak, but its earlier mentioned assets more than make up for its shortcomings.

Rogue Valley Roses is the only place that sells it to my knowledge. I can almost guarantee you that this rose will be one of your favorites.

What a beautiful flower and so delicate. Why don't many grow this one?

Don't know for sure. Market flooded with big name breeders' climbers, maybe? Relatively new to commerce, poor marketing? One bad comment on HMFR can sink a rose. Even Rogue Valley Roses' brief description is not accurate by my experience. I can assure you E.B. LeGrice is a blooming maniac and no black spot. It is a big climber, probably not subdued enough for a small vinyl KMart trellis. If I had the room for it where I garden now I would grow it in a heart beat!

Moses, I loved reading about Lady Ashe! I just got her as a band and you've made me glad I did! Lisa

Wow, Moses - looks like you got me talked into trying E.B. Le Grice. Apparently HMF won't find it for me without the space in the last name. Your description is excellent, and the fact that it's so hardy as well as quick to rebloom says a lot for it. The blooms on HMF are lovely and it would go quite well as a "filler" among some sparser but more exotic climbers on an arch.

Do you find any trouble with mildew? Several folks mentioned that it mildewed quite badly even in non-mildew prone areas. We don't get much of any, but it sounds like that would be the only deterrent.

Thanks for the info and more enabling!

Cynthia

Cynthia,

I believe the mildew comments were made by folks who grow/grew EBLG in year-round mildew prone areas like the West Coast where just about all roses get mildew there. Mildew is rarely encountered here in my climate. Since EBLG has never shown any mildew here, it may be due to the climate here or EBLG's innate mildew resistance.

Mildew here needs dry conditions (no rain), and hot days accompanied by cool nights. This occurs on rare occasions in the fall, and even then mildew usually does not show up, go figure. When the favorable mildew conditions in the fall occur I keep an eye out for it, but it just doesn't materialize. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had mildew in over 40 yrs., and then it was very light and easily treated.

Now, black spot is a bird of a different color. It is epidemic here. Few roses are BS proof/resistant here, even the Knockouts get BS here. The only roses that are BS proof here are silk or plastic roses.

EBLG is just about BS free here, certainly equal/superior to the Knockouts' BS resistance.

A rosarian here reports he wets down his roses' foliage overhead daily on the rare occasions when mildew pops up in the fall. Knocks mildew dead in its tracks, with no chemicals used other than H2O. I have never tried this method.

One last word on EBLG...I feed all my roses heavily, no skimping...not over fertilized, but kept optimal. Watering is never skimped on either. I want maximum flower production. I want to see flowers, and plenty of them. That's why I grow roses! I don't grow them to see how well they can survive with minimal nutrition and hydration. EBLG grew and flowered fantastically for me under my system. I do not know how it will do under a different system.

Vaporvac you have probably already seen this because it's the most popular photo on houzz for "rose pergola," but this is my favorite photo of a pergola covered in roses with a dining area underneath. Love the little candelabra hanging and everything.

https://www.houzz.com/photos/tuscan-farmhouse-mediterranean-patio-santa-barbara-phvw-vp~3025061

With yours... having 8 large posts instead of the 4 on this little metal pergola... I'm sure it will be my new favorite photo! I can't wait to see what you decide and photos.

Wow, that is some rose pergola. We are all looking forward to your photos too, and who knows if they'll be a new popular photo, Cori Ann.

I have a 10' pergola that I got when I worked at Ace yrs ago. It was a $500 aluminum one that I got for free because it was missing the screw kit! I use mine as my bird feeding area, and just this yr put up big pots around each column to have two climbers at each one, plus other potted roses mixed around the corners. It's still kinda messy, as I'm still planting beds nearby and have debris and crap to clean up. Just been a bad yr for me to get things accomplished. But I'm hoping this spring I will get everything planted and cleaned up. My property is really sloped and we had to do our best to try and level the dang thing. It's not perfect, but it's not that bad. It'll be really cool once the roses grow up over it.

The climbers I have there are: E VAYRAT HERMANOS, which I dug up from its old spot at the corner of the house. Never did bloom there. Still hasn't bloomed after over 10yrs. With it I paired up AMERICA at that column. Then I put CHOCOLATE SUNDAE and SALITA at another one. Then NIGHT LIGHT and BLAZE OF GLORY, which has already scaled up over the top. And the last column has SVR DE MADAME LEONNIE VIENNOT (also dug up from the side of the house) and ALOHA. Those are all in 20" plastic pots. There are at least 5 or more other roses at each column planted in various ceramic or decorative plastic pots.

This was back in Feb before the roses all got potted up and two of the beds still weren't done off to the right.

You guys are hilarious! My imagination is generally the best thing about my plans! It's a mental project to get me through the winter months when I tell myself it's too cold to work outside and it is motivating me to move on to clearing out and planting the "back 40" once and for all! I've also never seen that pic before! It's set the bare high, that's for sure!

I measured the area and it's smaller than I thought... maybe 22' before the hill descends. I could realistically make it between 15'-18' to allow for space next to the dry stone retaining wall and the hill as I think would look stupid right next to the wall. So now I'm wondering if this is long enough to allow for the arch : (, and if 5'-6' is big enough for each section. I did see a pic of one that had a front extension and that might work out and still be pretty. I'll post these pics or the links to my original inspiration and its maybe replacement.

The main pink considerations are now Nahema, The Wedgewood or Strawberry Hill, EB Le Grice, Renae, Aloha, Colette, Compassion and maybe Jeanne Le Joie. Not sure about Peggy Martine. Parade and Setina are still in the running for accent colour, especially if I add any trellising. Haven't decided to add either Illusion or Quadra to mix. It will depend on final dimensions. I also like Raspberry Creme Twirl.

I'm torn between having so many varieties or using just one for each colour at least for either side. But then I'm dying to see the diversity and experience these roses for my self. Will it look tacky with so many different roses even if they're still the same general colour and "type" ?

Moses - thanks for all the detailed information about EBLG! We also get very little mildew year round, only occasionally in the fall and only on a few roses even then. I wasn't all that worried, but I thought I'd check. We do get BS on a regular basis, but not as badly as you do toward the east coast. If EBLG stays as clean as Kordes roses, it's a keeper already.

I also appreciate your caveat about the TLC and feeding your roses get. Mine usually get regular water and one feeding, but I have too many to keep up with regular feedings. I'll keep my results in mind given those parameters. It's enough to know that EBLG can rebloom prolifically under the right conditions, and that gives it a better chance at reblooming well under moderate conditions that are within my capacity to maintain. Your discussions of the roses you grow are tremendously helpful in their detail and applicability, and I appreciate the time you've spent. You should post these on the HMF comments pages because they would be of considerable interest to many other cold zone gardeners like us.
I went ahead and ordered EBLG last night, so I'll enjoy seeing how he does in my yard.

Cynthia

Cynthia, I'm wondering if you have anything to report on EBLeG. I'm making up a spring order from RVR and still want him when he's back in stock. In re-reading this post, I also agree with you that Mose's comments would help fill out details on this and other roses on HMF. It's so easy for things to fall through the cracks and get lost amongst other posts. In HMF the info is all in one place under that particular rose, hence easy to find.

Calling Cynthia! Do you have any updates on EB La Grice?

Vap, have you finished your project ? We all would love to see. It is great when someone put their projects up. I need ideas..lol

I know Cynthia will see your thread and reply soon.

Jin