I've also been on the search for a 30" induction range. I'm not a gourmet chef by any stretch of the imagination. My recommendation is this: decide whether precise control or knobs is more important to you. If precise control is more important, then forego the knobs and get the Bosch. If knobs are more important, then forego the precision and get the Samsung or Miele.

I think you are probably right that exactly what you are looking for may not exist. So there will probably have to be a compromise, and it seems like its either going to be the heat setting precision or the knobs.

As for reliability, time will tell. But I think some of the current generation induction ranges seem at least reasonably reliable. Personally I'd feel pretty comfortable with the Bosch or the Miele, and I'd be comfortable enough with the Wolf or Samsung that I don't think it would be a deal-breaker if that was what I decided on.

Why not get a 36" cooktop instead of the range? Reuse it if and when you do remodel later. One nice feature about induction is how it disappears into the counter and becomes part of it. You lose that with a range.

Thanks for the feedback. @Anon- I feel like either compromise is pretty significant. My mother lives with me and I fear she will struggle with touch screens, and trying them in various showrooms, I'm not a huge fan either. Knobs aren't just an aestetic thing, they feel like a functional need. And what's the point of spending up for an induction range if I can't get precise control at the low end? Maybe someone can tell me that it's an overblown concern, but I read reviews about how 2 is too low and 3 is too high and there's nothing in between. Very tough to know what's what.

@fori - thanks, but since we're not touching our cabinets at the moment, I don't have the option of a cooktop since I'm replacing a range. I looked into doing a cook top and wall oven underneath but that got expensive fast, especially when I needed to find a cabinet, plus, I really don't have room for 36 until I make another adjustment to the layout.

I'm relatively new to induction but in my opinion the precise control especially at lower levels is a significant benefit of induction. I purchased an Electrolux range earlier this year and quite happy with it so far. Wouldn't work for you though since you want knobs. I have no problem pushing the buttons - it seems pretty intuitive and simple.

One more thought/question. If money were no object, is there an induction range that fits what I am looking for? Maybe the Viking or the Wolf? Any others?

ETA: The fact that so many of the higher end ranges only have 9 or 10 levels makes me wonder if in fact it's not as big a del as I'm making it.

At least one 10-level induction cooktop can be reprogrammed to more steps. I don't recall which one that was. At least one 10-level induction cooktop, the Wolf, has non-linear changes between steps giving much more control at the low end where it is needed. However, I don't have any of these to provide a first-hand impression. (I have a Frigidaire 36.) I expect the ranges to potentially have similar cooktop characteristics within a brand to their stand-alone cooktops.

Downloading and reviewing the user guides will better clarify the capabilities. theinductionsite.com may provide supporting information.

kas

Ron, I don't know anything about the Viking, but the Wolf induction range's cooktop is controlled by touch screen, not knobs. Those knobs apparently control the oven, believe it or not. I believe the Wolf also only has 10 levels, but the post above indicates that perhaps they have more control than a typical 10-level control.

The bosch touchscreen induction is just so easy to use. You pick the burner, then touch the number you want to heat it to. I think your Mom will be able to figure it out unless she has more serious problems regarding memory, and if she does, she shouldn't be using an oven or cooktop. :)

As to your "money no object" question, I suppose that there is one additional thought or rather a work-around to the ten step controls. Get a portable induction unit that plugs into a 120v circuit and provides 100 power steps, such as the knob controlled Vollrath Mirage Pro ($450) or touchpad Cooktek Apogee ($1k). Maybe get the Samsung slide-in that you liked and pull the Vollrath out it for those particular tasks where precise heat control may be required such as melting expensive chocolate, making very delicate sauces, running a pressure cookers, etc.

Heck, maybe you just get the Vollrath and use it on top of or alongside your existing smoothtop range. Do that until better induction choices come along. If and when get to where you feel ready to do a kitchen remodel, you'll have something to cook on besides a microwave or camping stove. ;>)

"My mother lives with me and I fear she will struggle with touch screens,
and trying them in various showrooms, I'm not a huge fan either."

I don't think that knobs are better or worse than touch screens, just different. I am retired (okay, early retirement, lol) , and have always had knobs, but adjusted to the touch screen of my cooktop in about a nanosecond. I guess my mindset was just that if I wanted this induction cooktop, this is the type of controls that I would have to live with. Rather than fear that your mother will have difficulty with the touch screens, would it be possible to take her with you so she can try them herself and let her give you her first hand opinion?

I will agree that it might take a bit of getting used to, but I really don't think the touch screen is insurmountable. My DH is not at all inclined in this regard, and I just printed a couple of instruction sheets for him to follow for the foods he made the most, which included setting the hob timer... ie, press this button, then that button, then do this..... and if he can do it anyone can. Maybe having a couple of "cheat sheets" for your mom will help.

jwvideo used the phrase: "purely aspirational." How perfectly apt an expression for consumer electronics lifetime assertions. Do we ever learn of how the reported values were calculated? Even if a standardized reliability prediction method of calculating mean time to repair (MTTR) were used, we would still have to understand that the resulting value (usually in hours of operation) is the value of operational time where one-half of the units have failed. And conversion of hours of operation to years of life is obviously dependent on how many hours per day are assumed for cooking -- likely to be widely variable among residential cooks -- as are also the combinations of hob powers in use that would affect the MTTR calculation.

Also to be kept in mind is that the 50% that had failed by the MTTR did not do so all at once, but over time. At best, the better designs will push the MTTR farther out by designing
with higher parts stress margins. This obviously adds cost, and will be difficult when the
updated designs attempt to occupy ever less thickness. Imagine a 5kW per channel stereo amplifier packed into the same volume.

20 years at 2 hours per day is 14,600 hours, which would be a pretty high MTTR value for a mix of power electronics as complex as an induction cooktop, particularly when fans and hot heat sources are involved. The more I consider induction cooktop lifetime, the more impressed I am that my previous Kenmore (Electrolux clone) induction cooktop lasted 7 years before failing.

At the time there were a lot of complaints on-line of even earlier failures, mixed with outrage that replacement parts' costs made repair not cost effective. I now see these failures as inevitable. Hence the value of a modestly priced warranty extension, and of being able to "let go" when failure occurs after the warranty period.

kas

>>>"20 years at 2 hours per day is 14,600 hours which would be a pretty high MTTR value for a mix of power electronics . . . Do we ever learn of how the reported values were calculated?"<<<

Not really, but this is certainly food for thought.

FWIW, I think you meant MTBF ("mean time between failures") or MTTF ("mean time to failure") rather than MTTR (which, IIRC, is about the time it takes to diagnose a fault and complete a repair.) AFAIK, the difference between MTBF and MTTF is that MTBF is about repairable failures (what most of think of when we talk about reliability) and MTTF is about lifespan (the point at which a product is junked because failures are either impossible or uneconomic to fix.)

For those of you whose eyes are starting to glaze over, please bear with
us for a moment. :>) For those who cannot do so, the point is that
Miele products might be lasting longer because they are
so expensive to buy that folks see it as cost effective to pay repair expenses that might trash a much less expensive appliance such as a
Frigidaire. (IOW, you might be willing to pay $1200 for a replacement board for your $7k Miele when you would not spend that much on a Frigidiare that cost you $1400).

On the question of how Miele gets its 20 year projections, you can find a sort of description on Miele's web site here. That web page describes testing with hours of continuous operation and continuous cycles for dishwashers, tumble dryers and washing machines (e.g., they run the washing machines for 10,000 hours representing 5000 cycles which they say is equivalent to five loads a week over twenty years.) Back in 2004, an independent German testing institute ran a durability test of various washing machine brands and confirmed that then existing line of Miele washing machines would run for 4995 cycles. That was "without intervention of a service technician" which sounds like an MTBF rating. All the the other brands tested apparently needed work at some point or else irreparably broke-down before reaching 4995 cycles.

Nowdays, however, I have not found anything telling me whether Miele is currently talking about a 20 year MTBF or a 20 year MTTF for washers. I have never found anything on how they actually test on their ranges and hobs. My searches included the British and German versions of Consumer Reports (Which? and Stiftung Warentest.) They seemed no more helpful than Consumer Reports. (However, my German is not very good so I might have missed something if they did cover appliance lifespans.)

Also, as Kas points out, we are talking about averages here. Half are failing before reaching the average life span. I think I would be more interested in a stove with a 50/50 chance of going 20 years without a repair (20-year MTBF) than I would one with a 20-year MTTF (meaning that I might have to spend to spend several thousand dollars on repairs to reach the 20 year mark.

Of course, there may be plenty of other reasons somebody might want a Miele anyway just as somebody might prefer a Mercedes 500 to a Subaru Forester.

Yes, I miswrote, a risk from writing too late at night. I must have been dreaming of mean time to start a repair.

MTBF was what I should have used. MTTF applies to devices that are impractical to repair, like a light buib or a transistor. In the military context where reliability analysis is most exhaustively applied, it would be rare for a complex, accessible system to not be repairable at some organizational level even if some components of the system are not repairable.

An induction cooktop certainly qualifies as a system with replaceable major assemblies. However, when the boards cost as much as they do, and the tech time needed to get to and replace the boards and then button up is so long, it is more economical to do such repairs early in the cooktop's lifetime. The later in the cooktop's lifetime the repair is made, the closer the other boards will be to predicted failure.

In the case of the low-cost Frigidaire induction cooktop, replacing two boards plus paying tech time approaches a new cooktop's cost. Without a still-active warranty, one might as well treat this case as unrepairable. With a warranty there is little to lose having the repair performed. Higher end cooktops may have different repair economics.

When replacing induction cooktops, changing manufacturers after a failure may have additional costs related to mismatched countertop cutout dimensions. For ranges, which have more standardized dimensions, this shouldn't be an issue.

kas

Ron Varrial: It looks like theinductionsite.com has massively revised their layout since I last visited. I think it best to download all relevant user manuals and dig out the information you want. If you tabulate the data, feel free to publish the table in a message here.

Ron:

1. Have not seen the "Regular" model much less seen the Chef and Regular side by side, so cannot comment on any differences in feel. On feature differences, what I recall is that the "Regular" does not have the divisible flex oven, it's oven elements pull a bit less power, and it lacks an oven temp probe, but it adds some kind of smartphone app for monitoring the stovetop and oven. (IIRC, the app is only monitoring, not controlling the stove.)

2. "Touchscreen" meaning "touchpads" for burner control? I ask because, AFAIK, only oven controls have actual touchscreens. As far as burner settings, my recollection is that the Electrolux induction stoves have the most burner settings by offering quarter-steps at the low end in addition to half steps for the rest of the settings. I think the Elux total is 23. 3katz4me has an Electrolux and can give you the exact number. Next most settings would be the Frigidaire and GE ranges which have 19 including half steps. Next is the Bosch with 17 or 18, IIRC. Miele is next with 12 settings. Everything else seems to have 9 or 10.

   ETA: While looking (unsucessfully) for theinductionsite grid, I see that the site is reporting that the very expensive Viking induction ranges are supposed to have continuously variable burner controls. Dunno if that is actually the case. It is possible and might be contributing to Viking's very high price. Garland-Manitowiac has these kinds of controls on its expensive commercial induction products (staring at $1600 for their least expensive single burner unit). Cooktek, Viking's corporate sibling, comes close with 100-step induction controllers and burners for its commercial induction products. Given the Viking's pricing ($2k more than the already very expensive Miele), and Viking's apparently iffy reputation, I'm guessing that having continuous burner settings would not change your opinion that the Viking is too expensive.

Ron,

I may have missed it in the threads above, did you consider the Frigidaire Induction range? I linked the user guide, it appears to have at least 16 power settings for the induction hob. The standalone unit starts at $1500 and the slide in is just north of $2k

Good luck!

Oh dear - hate to see you get the old radiant electric when induction is so much better to cook with.

Homepro -- we did discuss the Frigidaire slide-in but Ron was put off by that model's chintzy-feel, particularly the plastic knobs and plastic stovetop trim. I suppose one could substitute better knobs, maybe get a set of the Samsung knobs, for example. Heck, you could probably throw on some of Wolf's fancy red knobs if you wanted :-) Still, there seems to be no getting round the meltable plastic rim of the stovetop and the somewhat lightweight feel of other components like the oven door.

FWIW, the likes of AJ Madison are selling the Frigidaire slide-in for under $1600 (have to put one "in the cart" to see that price, though.). Black Friday deals may take the price down around $1400. Last year at this time, our local Lowe's had one tagged at under $1500. (I think it might have been $1459). Also, FWIW, on the one I saw, there were power settings for "low," high," and "boost" besides the 16 numbered power settings for a total 19.

Jwvideo,

Thanks for the clarification! I wondered why that was eliminated as an option. It can't be beat at $1500 for the slide in! I just recommended this to a friend with a limited budget!

We went through the search for an induction range earlier this year and went with Bertazzoni. Our previous was an electric Jenn Air cooktop with the touch controls. We considered Miele and Viking but couldn't justify the price. Bosch was a contender but it overhangs the countertop on each side. We really wanted a pro style with knobs but without the overhang. We boiled pasta last night and I commented again at how much more precise induction is over electric. It seemed impossible to avoid a boil over with electric. I'm not sure of the Bertazzonis reliability but so far so good. The oven is on the smaller but works well for us.

Interesting. I didn't realize Bertazzoni made an induction. Recent posts about Bertazzoni reliability are scary enough to make me lose interest, though.

Ron electric would be my absolute last choice. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it anymore.

Alright! After so much web research, reading many threads here, going to probably 10 appliance stores over the past few weeks, I think I'm near a decision. But as helpful as you guys have been, I wanted get any last minute input, see if I'm missing anything, etc. One other note, I measured the 12" cabinet above the fridge and thankfully I did. I only have a hair over 68.5 in the lowest and 68.75 in the highest. I talked to my handyman and he said we could shave off half and inch without much trouble if I needed to. My wife says we should spend under 5,000, so that's what I'm working with here.

Combo Option 1:

Frigidaire Slide in Induction FGIS3065PF, $1400-1600 (Goedeker's has it at 1400 but local shop is balking at matching). I still think it's "cheap" feeling in the knobs and the plastic front panel but it's got solid reviews, knobs, and reportedly nice range of power levels. At this price, if we do a full-on reno in a few years, I won't feel so bad scrapping it for a 36" cooktop, wall oven etc.

KitchenAid KRMF706ESS fridge, 2600-$200 rebate (local shop). I was looking for a fridge with two cooling systems and a lot of produce storage since we have a farm share. I really loved the look of this one, particularly the flat front. The real bonus, however, is that it's 68 3/8 tall which means it'll juuuuusssstttt fit. $2400 is definitely more than I wanted to spend on a fridge, which is the down side.

This combo equals $4000 which is under budget once I add extended warranties, tax, etc., and I can afford the hood vent without having to haggle at home.

I would buy both from the local shop, but I'm curious what you guys think. If Goedeker's has the range for $1400 and no tax and $100 delivery (I would have trouble getting it into the house if they leave it at the curb), is it worth the savings if the local store will do 1600, 3.5% tax and free shipping? Basically $150 for less hassle of dealing with two companies, or is that silly?

Option 2:

KitchenAid KRMF706ESS fridge, 2400 after rebate (local shop).

I know I wasn't considering ranges without knobs, but my local shop will do the KA induction KSIB900ESS for $2150 after rebate (ETA: and I just noticed that they have a 12 piece cookware set after registering!). It also has a wireless temp probe, which is good since I cook a lot of slow-low roasts but maybe I can just buy one (is it a gimmick?). It's got a really sturdy, appealing feel and look. I swore I wasn't going to fall into the trap of same manufacturer for both, but I really liked the KA when finally seeing it in person. I see a lot of love for this range, but also some skepticism, especially about the 10 power levels. Any new thoughts on this one? It does look to me in the KA pictures, that there are actually 30 steps on the power screen, but who knows. The thought here is, for $2150, we would be getting some real bang for our buck, and the KA seems like a big step up from the Fridgidaire, but I don't want to fall into the trap of all this research and then going with look and feel at the detriment of performance.

This definitely puts me right up against budget and i'll have to fight for it, and I'll probably have to hold off on the hood vent for now (we don't have one at all, we open a window and turn on a ceiling fan LOL).

Option 3:

Cut the cabinet, and go with Samsung RF28HMEDBSR which is at AJMadison for $1369 after rebate or RF28JBEDBSR for $1749 after rebate. I cannot figure out why one is $400 cheaper, to be honest, they look very similar to me. Or, the LMXS27626S which is $1519 after rebate.

At those price, I can more easily afford the Kitchenaid range if that's something I want. Or, I could save on both the range and the fridge, and do a hood, and still come in under budget. The only pain is trimming the cabinet, which I don't have the tools to do myself, unless someone wants to give me an idea (it seems like a dremel type saw would do it, but I'm so far from handy, it's scary).

So, I guess all around, I'm still narrowing it down. If you recommend I either buy from one place, or split it up and just get the best price per piece, that would make life easier. I know this was a range thread, so I don't want to muddy it with the fridge talk, but am I wasting money by spending 600-1000 more for the KA fridge than these Samsungs or LG? Having seen a lot of salesmen, I've gotten a lot of negative sentiment about Samsung and LG but I don't put too much stock in that since overall I've been disappointed in most of the information and help I got. I would actually like to order through the guy at Best Buy of all places. They have the high-end appliance store-within-a-store at one near me and the guy was great. I'm not sure they'll price match though, at least not with Goedeker's.

Best Buy will price match Goedeckers and AJ Madison.

Good luck!

I don't want to throw any new kinks in your plan, but have you priced the wolf induction? Maybe it's just regional pricing, but we just bought our 36" for under 2500. I was actually dead set on the Thermador freedom but budget concerns creeped in. I know you would prefer knobs but just a thought if you might be interested.

Is that Wolf Induction cooktop? I need a range. The 30" Wolf induction range was about 7000 when I looked into it. For under 2500 and 36", I'd tear out a cabinet with my bear hands to fit it.

Yes Ron he's talking about the cooktop.

Personally, if you're planning on gutting the kitchen in a few years, I would do option 1. it may turn out that you love the Frigidaire and want to keep it, but if not, you won't feel like you have to. In the meantime, you'll get a good fridge and the hood which you do need.

I agree with cpartist. Option 1 seems like a good stopgap measure to get you a superior range (as compared to standard electric range) now, and you won't feel terrible scrapping it in a few years if you end up going that route.

I'm sure you'll really enjoy your choices. Congrats.

>>>"Thanks again for all the help and for providing me a sounding board. Of
course I'm still not convinced the KA induction is the best, ." <<<

Well, I'm repeating myself when I say choosing appliances almost always winds up being a choice between different mixes of compromises and tradeoffs.

But, it has to be a relief to have the decisions made, eh?

After you've installed and used your new appliances for a while, please report back and add to the sounding board.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Nice surprise today when the truck showed up. The fridge we thought was back ordered until Dec. 7 was in stock and delivered! Even though the fridge won't fit under the cabinet (it's 1/2 inch too tall), it's OK for now, just sticking out a foot into the kitchen. Should get the cabinet shaved down next week.

Turns out I didn't have the right outlet receptacle from my old range. The delivery guy said it's not something they can do, and I had to call an electrician and that they could leave the range in the garage and refund our $50 install. Then he kind of hinted that if he had the right box on his truck he could have done it and I asked what if I ran to Home Depot while he brought in the fridge and he said no problem, he would do it. As I was at Home Depot they realized we had an old water line but it wasn't actually connected anymore (I knew it wasn't working but didn't realize it was disconnected). He told my wife they're not allowed to do the hookup, but we'd be able to do that ourselves and told me what to pick up. When I got back, they wound up doing both the water line and the outlet for us. It was awesome. I was waiting for him to give us an invoice but he said it was part of the $85 we paid for delivery/set up. I knew the saleman originally said they wouldn't do any of that kind of stuff, so I gave them $80 I had on me in cash. Probably saved me 3x that in an electrician and/or handy man since I would have gotten nervous doing the water hookup myself. I still can't believe it's a case of screwing a pin into a pipe.

Now that I've had the range for a few hours, some early issues. I did the burn off for an hour at 400. But I noticed a few hours later, it's still hot. Turns out the drawer is still going full blast. I tried turning it on and off, different settings, etc. But it's at 400 and couldn't get it to shut off so I flipped off the breaker. Not a great start. I'll go flip it back on before bed to see if I was able to reset it, but just in case, I think I'll sleep with it off tonight.

Also, in playing with the induction, there's ABSOLUTELY a pulsing on and off at lower temps. I'm not sure how anyone could say there isn't. I don't mind the minor buzz, since it tells me it's cooking. But at levels 1-5, it's basically buzz-off-buzz-off-buzz-off. It doesn't seem to go full blast heat or anything, which JW mentioned as a fear, but I'll have to test it more. So far I fried up some pepperoni and scrambled eggs, and it was really responsive up and down. My mom and wife were ooohing and awwing over the boiling water demo in a shallow pan. That's got to be an induction salesman's greatest selling tool right there.

One year later, how do you like your induction stove?

good to hear. we are in the middle of the same decision process and I ask myself if it's worth it to spend an additional $1k for an induction top on a range. I think I probably will, but it is hard to justify

I've just gotten the LG induction range and couldn't be happier with it (granted I've only had it for 3 weeks). I gather that the reason it doesn't seem to be favored by some who post here is because there are only(?) nine power settings instead of infinitely variable adjustments but in my 3 weeks of egg-cooking, meat-searing and stock making I haven't found that to be a problem at all. As long as the low settings are low enough (and they are much superior to gas at the low end), I've had no problem whatsoever in fine-tuning the heat level to exactly what I need. In addition, the knobs on the front are substantial and not at all cheap-looking (which was the complaint on the Frigidaire) and since they are on the front of the unit, do not get in the way of the cooking surface (a real pain on my prior cook top).

The top is a breeze to keep clean so far and because it never gets very hot, nothing gets cooked on. I really think this range should be included in the mix when one is considering 30" induction ranges. I think it's a winner.

joblue, I too have the LG induction range and also love it. I've been using mine for about 4 or 5 months now, and so far it's doing great. I also believe the fact that there is "only" nine power levels is a non-issue, and LG has a long history of making solid, well-respected ranges (even though the induction is new).

All stove designs reflect trade-offs. The "nine versus more" is just one more design tradeoff and is a matter of personal preference. Nine/Ten settings works fine for some and not for others. Just something to be considered when choosing between ranges.

Also, I noticed the other day that Costco.com now offers the LG for about $US2500 which includes delivery and set-up. The plus for buying from Costco is the absolute satisfaction guarantee. If it turned out you don't like this stove after a couple of weeks, and have the ability to haul it to a local Costco store, you could take it back for a full refund.

Fabulous thread full of great information! Now, almost 2 years later, wondering how you like your stove? I love my Vollrath PIC w/100 settings and hope to someday replace my gas stove with induction. The cheapest Frigidaire is now under 1K. It lacks a few features (no convection, no warming drawer), but I believe it has 20 heat settings on the hobs and seems like a fantastic deal. Anyone have any experience with that? I suppose it will have the chintzy feel but most modern appliances are much more lightweight (IMO) than what I grew up with, so not necessarily a deal breaker for me. If everything else was good I think I could live with that. BTW, someone mentioned that the Viking induction had variable settings. This makes sense because apparently the Vollrath Mirage Pro w/100 settings is a design originally made by Viking. (I think I read that on this site on another induction thread.) Also, I think even 10 settings would be just fine as long as those settings were where they needed to be--i.e., great low end control. When you consider that old electric stoves only have 5-6 settings--low, med low, medium, med high, high, and maybe a simmer--even 10 would be a step up. Unlike the cheaper PICs, I think any full-sized induction stove would offer good low temp control, or who would buy them?

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any experience with the under 1K Frigidaire induction stove. Haven't seen one in person yet, and wondering if it's worth looking at. Thx.

Seems to me that the Frigidaire stoves are indeed worth looking at. Let us know what you think when you get to see one.

I do not have any direct hands-on experience in cooking with the low priced Frigidaire induction stoves, but I recently helped a friend check one out when our local Lowe's had them on sale. (The sale price was $699 for a whiie.) That was for the Frigidaire FFIF3054 which, I think, was the basic model you were describing.

Frigidiare also has an "upgraded" version in its Gallery line -- Model FGIF3036 --- the upgrade being an oven convection fan. Last time I checked, the Gallery version was priced at $850 at Lowe's.

I suspect they will be sale priced for Columbus Day discounts.

As best I could tell from the user manuals, there are only 10 power settings for the induction burners. The manual makes no mention of any half steps.

If that should turn out to be insufficient for some of your cooking, you would still have your Vollrath Mirage Pro PIC. You could pull out the Vollrath PIC for those times when finer heat control is needed for a recipe.

One thing that turned up in the research I did for my friend was that some of the early production run had control board problems resulting in a shutdown with an F40 error code in the display. Either the stove would not work at all or would suddenly throw the code within a few weeks of delivery. All of the posts I read indicated that Frigidaire or the seller quickly replaced the stove or refunded the purchase. Judging by the postings, that particular problem seems to have gone away in more recently produced units.

FWIW, my friend decided not to get one. She found the Frigidaires too lightly built and wants something with a more substantial feel.

On your tangent about the Mirage Pro and the Viking PIC models, the story is a little different. The Mirage Pro was never made by VIking. Actually, Viking did not make the Viking PIC, either. Both the Vollrath and the Viking were made by a company called Luxine. The Mirage Pro was a more advanced design than the Viking. Vollrath absorbed Luxine in 2009-2010.

The VIking PIC was not the same as the Mirage Pro. The Viking PIC units began experiencing glitches such as an inability to recognize some lines of induction-capable pans. Most notoriously, it had problems with Le Creuset enameled cast iron pans that neither the Vollrath Mirage Pro nor any other PIC seemed to have had any trouble with. There also seemed to be some quality control problems with the Viking unit and there was an uptick in postings from buyers who received units that were defective out of the box or which died soon after purchase. Viking dropped its PIC product in 2012, IIRC. Perhaps coincidentally, that was when Viking was negotiating to be acquired by Middleby Group, the owner of the competing PIC-maker, Cooktek.

That's great info, thank you jwvideo. I am not in a great hurry to replace my gas stove but would love to see the Frigidaires. If they're really that cheaply made, though, I may want to keep looking. Had no idea they had more than one model under 1K--I hope that's where the entire market is heading!

The information about the Viking/Vollrath PICs is fascinating! I love all the background info and I think it helps me make better purchases. How do you know so much about appliances? Is it all appliances, or just induction? Just curious...

How I know what I know -- which might not be all that much --- started years ago.

Got interested in induction in the 80's when my aunt bought one of the early Kenmore induction ranges. Stumbled into the old gardenweb (actually its "THS" predecessors) a couple of decades ago when I bought an old house and needed some appliances. . Learned a lot just by reading and occasionally participating in the odd discussion here. About seven years ago, I started considering replacing my then dual fuel GE range, had a dishwasher die, and also wanted a bigger fridge. I found a lot of help here and also, applying my government research training, found a lot of other resources elsewhere on the 'net.. Maybe researching was more fun than buying? :>) Anyway, friends figured I spoke "appliances" and have been enlisting my help ever since which keeps me somewhat current on some topics. For the help I've received here, I try to share what I learn.