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Fiddle leaf fig staking + dormancy question

Stephanie Burke
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

Hello all! Long time reader, but first time poster here with a question about my beloved fiddle leaf fig plant.

I became the proud owner of my FLF in late August and although I was expecting it to enter dormancy immediately as I live in London, I've been thrilled as the plant has added six beautiful leaves, all far larger than any others on the plant!

That being said, I have two questions:

1. Due to this rapid growth, the plant is starting to bow a bit. Should I stake it to support the stem or would this actually make the plant 'lazy' and less inclined to straighten itself out?

2. Should I be concerned that the plant hasn't gone into dormancy? It's in a northeast-facing window that receives bright light in the morning and indirect light the rest of the day. It seems to love the spot, but is a dormant season a requirement for optimal health? For a bit of context, it produced its largest leaves yet over the last two weeks.

Thank you so much - I appreciate your feedback and perspectives!

- Stephanie in London

Comments (46)

  • Dave
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If it's growth is causing it to lean, I'm guessing it's reaching for light as it's not getting enough.

    You can support it if you'd like nothing wrong with that.

    Ficus lyrata do not go dormant. They'll slow down during the winter months, but they won't stop completely.

    Stephanie Burke thanked Dave
  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you for the quick response, Dave! I should clarify a bit: The plant was bowing a bit when I received it. So much of the upper portion of stem was green that I concluded that the plant has experienced rapid growth this summer and wasn't being turned wherever it was grown. Since I received it, I've positioned it so that it is leaning away from the light in hopes it would self-correct. And while the new leaves are certainly pointed toward the light, it isn't enough to straighten out the stem.

    ...which was a long-winded way to say: I'm going to stake it. :) And thank you for clearing up my dormancy confusion! I was certainly under the impression it would stop growing in the winter-ish months.

    Thanks again!

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  • Dave
    7 years ago

    If the conditions are favorable, they'll grow all year.

    However, winter growth is usually a bit more leggy and not as dense and full as summer growth.

    Stake it! Nothing wrong with that at all.

    Stephanie Burke thanked Dave
  • litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
    7 years ago

    Stephanie, it can be shocking to hear someone tell you the best thing for a plant is to chop off shiny new growth, but I've learned that there's a lot about plants that's counterintuitive, and that our love for any fresh green thing sometimes keeps us from recognizing whether new growth is a sign of health or a result of a cause of trouble.

    Stephanie Burke thanked litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
  • Dave
    7 years ago

    I guess the best thing the op could do is post a pic so we can all see what they're working with.

    Stephanie Burke thanked Dave
  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    All - thank you so much for your thoughtful feedback! As you can see from the pics below, I have a more bush-like plant that I am hoping to prune to eventually lead to a more tree-like shape in June. Based on what I read on the forum elsewhere, more leaves = more food for the plant and this would lead to the stem thickening so yes, I am a bit scared to prune, but am happy to do what you experts deem best as the goal is obviously long-term health.

    A last piece of backstory: The plant was staked by the nursery I bought it from and I left it like this for the first six weeks it lived with me. As the second set of leaves started to come in a few weeks ago, I purposefully turned the plant so the leaves would grow toward the light and against the stem's tilt.

    I'm posting three pics below.

    1. Unstaked

    2. Staked as it has been up to this point.

    3. A close-up of the stem.

    My questions essentially boil down to: Is it possible to bring a plant back from a weak stem due to staking (will my stem self-correct back toward the light)? Or should I prune it down even though it is not the optimal time of year? Furthermore, in my ideal world I was planning on pruning to where my most recent set of leaves are now in order to facilitate branching. Will it hurt the plant in the future if I decide to prune and later remove lower branches for aesthetic purposes?

    Many, many thanks, all!

    Stephanie

  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago

  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago

  • Dave
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I guess it all depends on what you want out of the plant.

    I agree, if it's growing in light conditions that aren't ideal, it'll become leggy and need support. But that's not a great fix. More light would be.

    I think there are some situations where staking is needed.

    I grew a small f Benjamin this past summer, kept removing lower branches as they'd grow so I'd get the height I wanted. It didn't allow the trunk to fatten up enough to support all of the quick growth that occurred outside, so staking was needed. It literally couldn't stand on its own.

    but I do believe my situation was a little different.

    Stephanie Burke thanked Dave
  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Hi Dave,

    I am fairly certain the plant is getting the correct amount of light now given it is still producing leaves, and quite large ones :) I know that the lean's genesis was it's time prior to joining me as I've only had it for two months and it was staked when delivered to me (and I did not question this).

    So what I'm trying to sort out now is whether or not the stem will self-correct if I unstable and position the current lean to be opposite the light source -or- if I should prune to rectify previous sins committed.

    Stephanie

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It's absolutely true that the more leaves a plant has the faster the trunk thickens. It's also true that if a lack of light is causing the plant's inability to support itself, that issue will continue to be a problem and cause the plant to have a weak trunk, no matter how many leaves it has. As noted, there would be an exception when the trunk is shortened or when the stake is a temporary fix because you have changed the plant to better light or are summering it outdoors, either/both of which could cause the trunk to thicken/strengthen appropriately.

    BTW, you can strengthen your tree's trunk w/o thickening it by flexing it regularly, which increases lignin production (lignin is what makes plants woody/hard); and you can stimulate thickening by very lightly abrading the trunk with a stiff nylon brush.

    Young parts of the tree that aren't well-lignified will self correct, but branches that are well lignified (these branches should be showing the beginnings of mature bark) won't.

    I was planning on pruning to where my most recent set of leaves are now
    in order to facilitate branching. Will it hurt the plant in the future
    if I decide to prune and later remove lower branches for aesthetic
    purposes?
    It won't hurt it, but you'll need to select one of the branches that occur behind (proximal to) the pruning cut to a vertical position as the new leader.

    Dave said: I grew a small f Benjamin this past summer, kept removing lower branches
    as they'd grow so I'd get the height I wanted. It didn't allow the
    trunk to fatten up enough to support all of the quick growth that
    occurred outside, so staking was needed. It literally couldn't stand on
    its own.
    The key here is, you kept removing lower branches ...... which would have strengthened the trunk so it would be self-supporting. I usually leave all branches on the trunk unless they grow larger than 1/3 the diameter of the main trunk. Also, removing lower branches doesn't increase extension of the leader, it inhibits it; so, if you were aiming for more ht, leaving the lower branches on until they got too large or the tree was as tall as you wanted it to be would have facilitated reaching that goal.

    If Stephanie's sense is that the issue of low light is been rectified, there is no reason to remove the stake in the immediate because it will be a temporary thing. If she has reason to believe a weak trunk will be an ongoing issue, she might consider pruning back to a point where the tree IS self-supporting, even if she waits until summer and leaves the tree staked until then.

    You can expect the newest growth to still be phototropic (responsive to light stimuli), but that trait will diminish with the age of the wood. Another way of saying it is, wood with bark that shows no green will not be phototropic or only very marginally so, and phototropic response will increase incrementally as tissues forming the basis for comparison become younger and younger [(ontogenetically). Trees don't age like animals (chronologically)]. So, the top of the tree will bend toward the light, and certainly all new growth will follow in the same vein, but wood that is already well-lignified will be set in position unless it's mechanically manipulated, which is also an easy option (at this point in the tree's development) if she wants to straighten the trunk.

    Stephanie Burke thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
  • Dave
    7 years ago

    Al,

    great points. Not to derail, just wanted to add a quick comment.

    I removed all side growth as I figured all the energy would be sent to the main leader and I'd get height faster.

    True or untrue?

  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hi Al,

    Thank you for the detailed response and education! With all of the above in mind and after evaluating the stem's woodiness, the lean certainly is a result of the green/young stem, which at this point accounts of ~40% of the plant's height.

    My plan of action is to keep the plant staked until June, assess stem strength, and decide whether or not to prune from there (and keeping the guidance re: selecting a leader in mind). May even try my hand at some of the stem strengthening ideas above, but admittedly a bit nervous! Do you agree that this plan is best?

    Thanks again,

    Stephanie

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    7 years ago

    I figured all the energy would be sent to the main leader and I'd get height faster.

    True or untrue?

    Untrue. Here's why: First, that you removed the bottom branches doesn't mean the tree won't still devote about 1/3 of it's energy to the bottom 2/3 of the plant. It will still make branches low on the plant unless you keep them rubbed off. So let's say you are careful to remove and rub off newly occurring branches on the lower 2/3 of the plant. Comparing a tree with a foliage mass (FM) of 9 units (one where the lower branches haven't been removed) to a tree with a FM of 6 units (one from which you removed the lower branches. The plant with 9 units of foliage, because it's apically dominant, will concentrate about 2/3 of its growth energy in the top 1/3 of the tree ...... so 6 units./ The tree with 6 units of foliage will still concentrate about 2/3 of its growth energy in the top 1/3 of the plant, so about 4 units. So the tree with 9 units of foliage should grow about 50% faster than a tree with 6 units of foliage, all else being equal (6 is 50% more than 4).

    Whether it's 9 units vs 8 units or 2 units, the end result will be the tree with more foliage will grow taller, faster, and will also put on more additive growth in the process. Additive growth is thickening and multiplicative growth is ramification - an increase in the number of branches and leaves. When your tree is at the ht you want it, you can remove the lower branches and start pinching to increase ramification. If that plan is followed, you'll get to where you're going much faster and your tree will be self supporting for the duration or soon after, even in low light situations. It's only in extended periods of low light and allowing the plant to grow as tall as it wants to that we find remedial pruning necessary as a fix for trees that manifest tendency to flop over due to weak trunks.

    Your plan sounds fine, Stephanie. I'd urge you to try to get the plant outdoors next summer when temps allow (nights reliably above 55-60*). I'd at least prune the apex off for now to stop any additional elongation, which we know will be extra weak because it's almost winter/Christmas - only 55 more shopping days, and days are growing shorter and light intensity weaker with each passing day.

    Al

    Stephanie Burke thanked tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
  • Dave
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Al,

    thanks for the info. Makes sense and it's something I definitely didn't realize.

    I'll keep the lower branches on in the future.

  • litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
    7 years ago

    "...you can stimulate thickening by very lightly abrading the trunk with a stiff nylon brush."

    That's a cool fact, Al. I might try it on my dracaena's upper stems. Thanks!

    Stephanie Burke thanked litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    7 years ago

    Al!! Once again, my mind is blown! Just to see if I understand apic dominance... given that such plants devote 2/3 energy to the top 1/3 of the plant... is it the case that the plant still has a certain number of branches/leaves it "wants" to have in its lower 2/3rds?

    That is, in Dave's situation, did the removal of lower branches not re-direct that energy because the plant kept trying to replace those lower branches? Or was it something else that happened? What did it do with the extra energy?

    Or am I completely lost? This is a great thread. Also when you said that plants don't age chronologically... wow! It is way cosmic.

  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    7 years ago

    Stephanie, your plant is lovely!! If you get a chance... I would be interested to know what you want it to look like when it grows up, and do you have any pictures of one that looks that way?

    This would help me understand what Al is saying. I wonder if maybe I need to start hanging around the Bonsai forum. I am just amazed at the interplay between human and plant.

    Although otoh... perhaps there are not that many overall shapes? I can think of only 3 right now:

    1. upright or straight/symmetrical tree

    2) asymmetric tree or a tree that has a leaning branch

    1. something more shrubby and compact or rounded

    No doubt there are a ton more options if one is doing bonsai.

    I am just thinking out loud. I have to figure out the same thing bc I just adopted a little ficus religiosa, and it is cute as heck... but I don't know what I want it to look like! It was so reasonably priced and healthy -- probably not much more than I would have to pay for seed -- that I just did it.


  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    7 years ago

    Healthy leaves are net users of energy until they are somewhere between 60-75% of their mature size. At that point they become net producers of energy; so, to remove even lower branches that are o/a net producers of energy limits the entire organism's ability to produce energy (food) from the sun's light, water, and CO2. Roughly 1/3 of the energy produced by leaves on branches attached to the lower third of the plant is used there. The other 2/3 goes to elongation and leaf production in the upper 1/3 of the plant. These numbers are used for illustration and only apply to trees or other plants with strong apical dominance. The growing tips of branches are called apices, which is where the term 'apical dominance' comes from. The plant tends to direct energy to this area to fuel extension and new leaves, strongly favoring the upper part of the plant.

    In Dave's situation, removing lower branches deprived the upper 1/3 of the plant of 2/3 of the energy produced in those lower branches, so a net loss of potential growth.

    Lost potential in any plant is hard to quantify because a plant severely stressed can still look healthy to the average grower's eye. I run into growers all the time that claim, "My grandmother's plant hasn't been repotted in 25 years and it's the picture of health", or "I've been using Premium Super Soggy Soil Perfect and my plants couldn't be better." The lost growth potential in grandma's plant would immediately become apparent after a full repot when the plant grows more in that first year than it has in the last 10 years languishing with its roots tied in tight knots; same thing occurs when changing to a soil that doesn't make the plant pay a steep energy tax for the cyclic death and regeneration of roots inherent in those Premium Super Soggy types. One thing for certain, lost potential can never be regained. Once it's occurred, it's gone forever.

    You can strengthen the bottom of the plant by cutting back the top, but you can't strengthen the top by cutting back the bottom.


    Here's another tidbit: If you want to save a very weak branch on the tree you see as being in jeopardy, bend it upward and it will get more energy. You'll often see bonsai that are nearly perfect in appearance except for that one WAY out of place vertical branch the practitioner is allowing to grow from the top side of a horizontal lower order branch to quickly strengthen/thicken the lower order branch.

    Al

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    N2CG - An accomplished bonsai practitioner can literally make branches grow where they are needed by a variety of means. Thread and approach grafts are common

    Thread graft to make a branch grow where it's needed on a hawthorn. The graft has already 'taken' but the scion is still intact.:

    an approach graft on a trident maple that has 'taken' and the scion severed:

    For trees with buds on the scion too large to pass through the hole drilled straight through the tree, a technique actually exists whereby an unneeded branch can be removed and reattached where it's needed, This takes at least 2 years to accomplish, however. I also graft roots to the base of the tree where needed to create an attractive and balanced root base, which is essential to every well developed, high quality bonsai tree.

    Gotta get dinner on the table. Braised beef tips tonight.

    Al

  • Dave
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Al,

    to be fair, I removed any buds that formed. No leaves for even branches were allowed to form. I'd remove them as the bud was forming.

    Not sure if that changes anything, just wanted to be clear on what I did.

    here is the plant in question right at the end of summer. It was over a foot shorter with only 2 leaves when I started it in May.

    Sorry about the thread derailment. I hope people are learning from this.

  • Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
    7 years ago

    Whoa Nelly, Al! Just amazing.

  • ajebailey
    6 years ago

    Hello everyone,

    If someone can give me some insight with my Fiddle leaf fig it would be so greatly appreciated. I have had this for about 2 years and it is growing well. I unfortunately am having two issues with it that I'm not sure what to do with. My first is that the new leaf that has come out has red speckles all over it, they are much more noticeable on the bottom of the leaf as shown in the pic. I figure it is due to my watering schedule and the fact that it is root bound? Watering schedule fixed and working on the root bound issue. It is currently in a 10" pot (in the basket) and I'm planing on switch it to a 12" in the next week. Not sure if I should trim the root ball back because of all the different advice online but I know it's getting transplanted in the near future.

    Currently the plant is 6.5' tall when it's tied to the other branch.

    Also my second problem is the aggressive lean. I am rotating my plant but it doesn't seem to be helping only with the top new growth. Makes sense now that I read the previous post about the non woody growth verses the woody growth. I feel like I'm going to get the feedback of cutting it back but my only issue with that is that I really want to maintain the 2 stew look. More of a large shrub then a tree. So I feel lost because I know staking it up is not optimal.

    I have attached a couple pics that shows the new leaf growth. Also another photo that points to where the new leaf growth is and where I have it tied to the other branch for support. Also one more that shows what it looks like when it's not tied up for support.

    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

    Thank you

    Antoinette

  • Dave
    6 years ago

    I'd thoroughly check for spider mites and report back.

  • ajebailey
    6 years ago

    I checked it over thoroughly for mites or any other pest and I see nothing at all. I have had experience with spider mites and gardenias about 5 years ago and I make sure to keep an eye out for any pests.

    Thanks for the suggestion

    Antoinette

  • robin98
    6 years ago

    Could the red speckles on the new leaf be oedema from being overwatered at the time it was forming/emerging? If so, it's a physiological thing (cell rupture from high internal pressure, something like that..) rather than a disease or infestation. You did say that you thought it related to your watering schedule so maybe you answered your own question :)

  • ajebailey
    6 years ago

    I think your right robin98. I am now on a consistent watering schedule and I believe it should help. It's so heart breaking and a harsh reminder to see that leaf everyday but lesson learner.

  • Christine T
    6 years ago

    I think the consistent watering schedule may be the problem. I think using a wooden dowel by inserting it into the soil to test how moist the soil is is your best bet. The ficus is likely leaning because the leader isn't thick enough. This is likely caused by not enough light during the period of new growth causing it to grow towards the direction of light instead of putting energy into thickening up the trunk.

  • litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
    6 years ago

    Watering when the plant needs it (and not before) is one of the biggest things you can do to keep any plant healthy. Like most plants, aerated soil is as critical to a ficus's health as sunshine. That's why we check soil moisture.

    A sharpened dowel is a simple, fast, and accurate tool for this (5/8" or 1/4" seems best), but any thin piece of unfinished wood, like a wooden skewer or even a cheap chopstick, works fine too.

    Stick the dowel through the soil to the very bottom of the pot, leave it for two seconds, and withhold water until the whole dowel comes out completely dry (don't worry, at that point there's still water within the soil particles that the roots can access but we can't feel). Then water slowly but thoroughly, wetting the entire surface of the soil, until water drains freely from the pot, making sure the pot doesn't sit in the drained water.**

    To get excess water out of the pot so the soil at the bottom doesn't stay completely saturated, prop it up so it's tilted at 45 degrees for 10-15 minutes. If there are drain holes around the edges of the bottom you're done (that's why I love my cheap plastic pots); if the holes or holes aren't at the edges you'll leave the pot upright for 5-10 minutes to let the excess water drain out.

    This practice ensures the roots get substantial periods in moist, not wet, soil, when they can get oxygen from the air between soil particles and grow into a healthy system that takes up water and nutrients stores water for dry periods. Watering until water drains freely from the pot prevents the buildup of mineral and fertilizer deposits that can damage the plant and retard growth.

    Plants use more water when they're growing and in low humidity, and use less in the winter, so check the moisture every day until you know how your plants behave . If you don't have a pencil sharpener, just scrape off the dirt stains from the last time you checked with a utility or pocket knife or even a razor blade.

    I hope that helps!

  • twomalamutes
    6 years ago

    Hi everyone,

    I see recent activity on this topic so hoping someone can help me. I have a small fiddle leaf fig (photo attached) I purchased from the nursery a few weeks ago. It had a stake which the store person told me to bravely get rid of so that the plant doesn't become weak on reliance. He said it will stand up after a while.

    I've had it in two spots around the apartment where I now know wasnt getting enough light. I may have also been over watering for a week or two.

    I've moved it now to the sunniest spot possible without being out on the balcony. And I'm checking moisture when watering.


    Wondering what I should do about the lean because it's pretty much horizontal.. I'm new to gardening. I've read many of the responses in this thread and must admit I get a little lost with some of them!


    Appreciate any help on next steps for my little flf, thank you!

    Yani

  • litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
    6 years ago

    Use stakes until the plant can stand up on its own. If you don't, the stems will turn at right angles to grow vertically if they have enough light, but that's not going to be a good look for the plant. Abundant light will thicken and strengthen the stem so your FLF can support itself (my dracaena's willowy stem doubled in thickness after five months of 2-3 hours of direct indoor sunlight and artificial light the rest of the day). Moving the plant and brushing the trunk with plastic bristles (without damaging the outer layer, of course) are also said to help.

    So give your new buddy the best light you have and make sure your big furry beasts don't accidentally sit on it!

  • twomalamutes
    6 years ago

    Thank you very much litterbuggy! I was wondering how long it would for the trunks to strengthen, would it be something similar to your dracaena? I've put the stakes in and right now that's the thickest thing in the pot, haha. Hopefully I'll see a difference in a few months time.

  • litterbuggy (z7b, Utah)
    6 years ago

    Sorry I disappeared; I'm easily distracted.

    I'd expect to wait four or five months to see significant improvement in the stem, and maybe longer before it can support the plant. I think moving the dracaena back and forth from the windowsills and the artificial lights helped too.

    Pinching of the growing tips at the end of the branches might also help by encouraging the plant to invest energy below, but you should take that with a big pinch of salt because I can't remember where I got the idea. Maybe someone who knows more about it will pipe in with advice.

  • Stephanie Burke
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    @twomalamutes I would also stake the plant. I was nervous about staking my FLF when it was leaning after a period of rapid growth bc I didn't want to make the stem reliant - I thought a bit of tough love was in order, ha! The way I understand it is that the more leaves the plant has, the stronger, more woodier the stem will become as the leaves are food/energy factories for the plant. So if I were in your position, I would stake and encourage new leaf growth and just wait out the stem catching up. That's exactly what happened with my plant; the stem got woodier and stronger with time. The green parts of the stem can still be influenced/altered, but once it starts getting more woody, it can't be and you could be stuck with unsavory angles forever. Hope this helps!

  • Ellie Pearson
    6 years ago

    Hey guys!

    To stake or not to stake?

    If it makes any difference, the window faces north. If I don't stake it, should I rotate the tree so it faces directly away from the window? Or should I start at more of a 45 degree angle to the window and rotate regularly?

    Any advice on how to increase the foliage? And how often should I report?

    thanks!

  • twomalamutes
    6 years ago

    Thanks Litterbuggy and Stephanie Burke!

    I went back to the nursery at which I got the advice to take the stakes out and received completely opposite advice from the same person! Just goes to show that sometimes you might get odd advice from professionals...

    I have another question: I have around 4-5 stems in there, should I separate them and if so, when should I do it?

    Sorry Ellie, I'm just a beginner so can't offer any advice. unfortunately.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    6 years ago

    Ellie - you can stake it, or you can change the planting angle by trimming the root mass so you can turn it such that the plant will be vertical in the pot, or you can prune the top back to a leaf that is pointing back toward the center of the pot - there's nothing wrong with a trunk with some movement (curves/bends) in it.

    Increase the volume of foliage by improving vitality (which can be accomplished by increasing light and air movement, IOW by moving it outdoors), fertilizing in the luxury range, and by pinching judiciously.

    Two - if you're going to divide your plants, do it now (if you live in the Northern Hemisphere. Mid-Jun to mid-Jul is about the best time, but if I fall behind here in MI, I'll keep repotting ficus until mid-Aug. Actually, I've been repotting tropicals since early morning - just felt like taking a cranberry/grape juice break.

    Al

  • twomalamutes
    6 years ago

    Hi Al,

    Thanks for takng the time to give advice during your juice break!

    I'm in Sydney and from the months you mentioned I gather you recommend repotting during summer? I'm in the middle of winter right now though it is very mild (today was a sunny but chilly 16 degrees Celsius:) I might wait until spring.

    Another question :-) Of the 6 individual trunks in this pot, there are 3 that are a lot more mature. Should I repot the mature ones together or mix them up?

    Thank you!

    * * *

    Just wanted to show you all an updated photo (the stake is still in there but the plants are not attached for the photo) and I'm so pleased with how far it's come! I'll keep them staked for a while more.


    Thank you all for your help!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    6 years ago

    Two - early spring, like Sep and Oct are the worst time to repot; this, because your plants are at their lowest energy level of the growth cycle after a long winter. Ideal for you would be just before Christmas.

    Your planting will look better if you have trunks of different thicknesses. Just be sure the thickest is the tallest. I usually suggest the next thickest would be 2/3 the ht of the tallest/thickest, and the thinnest trunk 1/2 the ht of tallest/thickest. In nature, when comparing trees of the same species in close proximity, the taller tree is the thicker tree .....

    Al

  • twomalamutes
    6 years ago

    Thanks again for your advice Al! I will wait until summer time for repotting and see how the trunks are fairing then as to which to repot together. So much to learn!

  • rpscotch
    5 years ago

    I really hope this thread is still open. I have read these comments for a couple months now and hopefully will get an answer. I have a FLF that I have had for just over a year. I believe it to be fairly mature as the tree is about 6 feet tall and has a thick trunk for a FLF. The question I have is regarding new growth. The tree has not produced a new leaf since I purchased it in Jan 2018. I have fertilized it during the growing season (April through June, in San Francisco, CA) and watered appropriately (roughly once a week). There have been some leaves in the beginning that browned on the edge, so I removed them. I did a little reasearch and found that was likely a watering issue so I adjusted at the time and there has been less browning, but still no growth. I havent given up on this tree because whenever i remove a browned leaf, there is milk that comes out of the branch, so I know that its at least doing something. Can anyone help determine how to get this plant growing again?


    Thanks,

    Roman

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    5 years ago

    The simple version of how to stimulate growth is, provide cultural conditions the plant will show it's approval for instead of conditions at or beyond the limits it's programmed to tolerate. If a plant is not growing, it's dying. If plants are making more food/energy than they require to keep their systems orderly, they grow. When plants are using more food/energy than they are making, they are not growing ...... AND, they will be shedding parts. Plants dealing with this antipodal arrangement 'are dying' because the discordant arrangement is unsustainable to the degree it always ends in the organism losing viability unless the trend is reversed before that occurs.

    The only way to improve your plant's lot is by identifying the most limiting factor and correcting it. As soon as it's corrected, what was formerly the second most limiting factor rises to the top like sour milk on the morning's coffee to become the all new most limiting factor. That's how Liebig's Law of the Minimum works. Often, it's better to perform a less individualistic search for the one most limiting factor in favor of a more holistic overview that has you evaluating the several factors most likely to lay waste to your best efforts to date.

    I invite you to look this over (by clicking the link) to see if it reveals habits or conditions you think could be improved to the benefit of your plants. As you read it, if you read it, pay particular attention to the strong emphasis on how much sway your choice of soils can have on your ability to keep plants happy. Getting that part right is almost certainly the largest step forward a container gardener can make at any given time. I encourage you to keep asking questions as they come to mind. The more enthusiastic you are about learning, the broader will be the response you get from folks who thrive on your enthusiasm. After all, it's not much fum trying to push someone up a rope if they don't feel like climbing. I'll wish you lots of luck and success in advance, and hope you fare well as a result of your efforts.

    Al

  • rpscotch
    5 years ago

    Thanks, Al. I was considering reporting the plant, but the nursery I purchased it from said there was no need. but after seeing no growth for over a year, action must be taken. Do you suggest a particular potting mix that is readily purchasable at a store Or would it be better to create my own? I am very eager to get it right and understand how to diagnose issues going forward as I have and enjoy a bunch of plants in my house. Any soil suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Based on your post that you recommended, I think I only need to repot and not pot up.


    Thanks

    Roman

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    5 years ago

    More times than not, but that isn't to say 'always', when I ask a question of an employee at a nursery, greenhouse, or plant store, I get an answer so off the wall I instantly recognize it would be futile to respond with anything but a thank you and a hasty retreat. That sort of encounter is a bit like calling a fireman because you're stuck on a burning roof and when he arrives he tosses you one end of the rope he's holding and tells you to jump. You just KNOW you're pretty much on your own.

    Repotting includes bare rooting, root pruning, and a change of soil, so it's much more extensive than potting up. Potting up is a half measure that ensures your plant will forever be limited by the root congestion inherent in plantings only potted up, while repotting ensures the planting will be free of those limitations until the approximate point in time when the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact. As your plants grow, you can avoid the need to repot often by potting up before they reach that stage of congestion where the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact, but at some point you'll need to start repotting (or dividing if more appropriate) if you want your plantings to be free of limitations due to root congestion.

    Soils run the gamut from unusable/poor to superlative/almost perfect. If there is a useful point of delineation that determines good from bad soils, it would almost necessarily be soils you can water to beyond the point of saturation (so you can flush the soil of accumulating salts at will) w/o the plant paying a tax levied by prolonged periods of saturation. That arrangement can sap a huge fraction of your plants' genetic potential. If only for the fact they will fight the grower tooth and nail for control of a planting's vitality, they should be avoided at nearly any cost.

    Media that provide appropriate structure and long term structural integrity, which are key elements of a good container medium, make your growing experience soo much more rewarding; still, they are not easy to find on the shelf. I used to recommend any of 3 formulas of Fafard brand media, all of which were based on chunky material (pine bark), but Fafard was acquired by Sunshine and the bark they are using is quite fine and quite advanced in stage of breakdown due to composting. It's unlikely you'll find a medium on the shelf that is as good as you can make for half the price, if you can find a source of pine bark that is appropriate in size from the bag, or can readily be screened to an appropriate size w/o significant loss of volume. I've always been lucky enough to be able to find appropriate. Witness the products at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock from 3 different packagers. All are or are very close to ideal for use in container media:


    I use a 5:1:1 ratio of 5 pine bark (ratio varies slightly with the size gradient of the bark) to 1 peat to 1 perlite + dolomite garden lime. It produces a superb medium that works for you instead of against you.

    You can also make an extremely productive medium from mostly inert ingredients. Who would think that you could grow well in a medium that provides almost nothing in the way of nutrition? Lots of little rocks and a bit of pine bark, all of which are screened to a size range that ensures the medium holds no excess water.

    In Frisco, you should be able to find fir bark prescreened to 1/8-1/4" easily. Ewing Irrigation has Turface MVP (tan particles), and you can use Manna Pro Poultry Grit in place of the white particles. That's what I grow all my trees in (around 250-275 in pots at last count.

    Al

  • rpscotch
    5 years ago

    Thanks, Al. Ill head to the store and pick up the necessary materials.


    I am wondering if I should repot my peace lily at the same time. Does this 5-1-1 formula of yours work on the majority of potted plants? The peace lily is extremely forgiving so I would assume that it would work just fine, but I thought I would ask.


    Very interesting to hear that plants will survive in a majority rock mixture (picture above with dime). The concept makes sense to me, but intuitively, I would think that dirt is required. As I am getting into growing more, I am quickly realizing the necessity for air in the roots. I just aerated my lawn (I know its not directly comparable) and it responded almost instantly to the newfound airspace in the soil, even though I don't think my soil is particularly compacted or made up of a lot of clay.


    Additionally, I have a bougainvillea that I planted to crawl over the front of my house on a trellis, and it is not crawling. I suspect that it has a form of root rot as the foliage has turned a form of reddish brown. I will have to dig up to investigate but anticipate having to nurse it back to life in a pot before putting back into the ground.


    Thanks for all the advice so far. I look forward to providing updates along the way. I am sure I will be posting often!


    Roman