Thanks Suzie for the link! Very interesting! Are you sure my grapes would not do well for you in CA? I believe they are good to zone 9 atleast. I ordered them from a place out that way I believe. I should have plenty left if you want to try some. I had an idea. Since my fridge is in a cut out type cabinet, I cannot really get the cuttings up there. However, I do have a heat mat that I use to germinate tomato seeds. It is a very low heat. Do you think they would be good on the heat mat? I remember when I was rooting figs for the first time (figs, my first love!), someone had suggested using a heat mat. How do you feel about this? Well, they are all wrapped in their garbage bags. Hopefully a few will make it! I did use rooting hormone on some of them. I had so many, I figured I could experiment. Well, all 3 vines are in the ground. I planted them yesterday. Hopefully they will take. I also dug up a rose bush that was at the house that my mom planted when I was a baby. I do not know how that will do. I did re-plant it here at my house, but the leaves were already limp. I wonder if roses can survive that. I also took a few cuttings from the branches, only about 4. I read to stick it in rooting hormone then into dirt with a soda bottle on top of it. They said to keep a few leaves on them, but the leaves are already pretty limp. I do not know much about roses, so I do not know if they will survive or not. That would be a shame. Although this bush is over 30 years old, it was cut way back, almost to the ground a year or so ago, so it was not as big as you would think it should be. It did have this huge, deep, long main root that I had to cut at one point since it was down so deep. Well, I will update on the grapes, and also the rose bush. thanks again for all the info! Christy

Rubythorne, where in MO are you? In SE MO (bootheel, my youthful home area), there is a wild grape (Vitis rotundifolia), commonly called Muscadine and/or Scuppernong grape, that are very sweet and are used extensively in the SE US for jam, jelly and home wine making. They are a fairly tender species and probably wouldn't survive if winter temperatures fall below 0F for a length of time. Many wild grapes are dioecious, requiring male & female vines, usually within 25 ft. of each other. Some selections and hybrids have been bred that are monoecious (hermaphroditic), having male & female flowers on the same plant. These are one's that are usually available from nurseries. Good luck on your quest!

I have grown A. brevipedunculata 'Elegans' for 3 years now. This variety of Ampelopsis is easily kept within bounds, actually only climbs to 8 ft. or so. It can be grown in hanging baskets and pinched back for bushiness. It makes a fine houseplant. The color is much more brilliant and the leaves more deeply cut than other Ampelopsis varieties and it can be grown in sun or shade. I started my first plant from seed 3 years ago, grown in a pot and left outdoors all winter. When new growth started last year, I pinned the largest streamers down in a flat next to the pot, kept it shaded and moist, and in 2 or 3 weeks I had about 8 plants! Be sure to layer only the thicker stems, not immature runners. I didn't nick the stem when I layered it. Seeds also germinate quickly. Sharon

Geoff, while its not a hard and fast rule, I have found in my own experiences that "real" grape will have a darker, reddish brown color, with an almost hardwood look to the vine at its base "trunk", as well as have bark that easily peels off in 6-8" strips. At least that's how my mature grapes look. as a contrast, Porceline Berry seems to just be very "viney" regardless of how mature, or thick, the base "trunks" become and the bark never seems to get that same texture as the grapes. I'm sure there's other ways to tell, but that's at least the most obvious indicator when I examine the ones on my property.