I'm on the verge of buying a J&P White Dawn that looks unbelievably healthy (even though I normally buy only own-root, and generally boycott foreign-owned growers). The virus-free certification may have knocked me off the fence. As to Peace, I've never seen one that looked anything but horrible. Down here, and even in Northwest Arkansas, they are just a bunch of skinny, leafless sticks, with blooms on the ends. Are there places where Peace actually looks good without endless pampering? I doubt any of the wretched specimens I've seen were own-root.

mgleason, thanks for the heads-up/offer re. Papa Meilland. I'm planning on ordering for early spring. I've hearing such positive feedback about Northland Rosarium that I may order with them come January. But keep me posted about your PM plans. What do you expect to charge for PM? Re. Taboo/Barkarole and Black Beauty; Ceterum is right that I am favoring fragrant roses right now. So I'm not serious about Taboo at this point. I do expect to get a Black Beauty and/or Hocus Pocus in the future, but probably not in the next several months. It's at least a quite compact plant, so i figure I can squeeze it in somewhere. But I do already have a reverted Memphis Magic (was supposed to be striped Memphis Music). It is such a deep red its actually burgundy rather than red. Terrific color! That's tiding me over at the moment, as far as scentless dark reds goes. And I have the small deep red HT Deep Secret--awsome fragrance! Depending on weather, it varies from blood red to black-shaded red. Not the best flower form in the heat, but when I cut it in bud and bring it inside, it opens out beautifully and holds very well. Mgleason, I meant to ask you about UCDavis' program. How does one go about requesting cuttings from them? Is it a wholesale operation only? Can we get info regarding what vendors have gotten which VID plants from them? It would be great to be able to track their program. Sounds like you may have been doing just that for a while. Mike

My grafted Chrysler Imperial was never a strong, vigorous rose, although it did put out beautiful blooms--with long waits between blooming periods. And I don't remember it ever getting over 2.5 to 3 ft tall. After two years, I got tired of always WAITING for it to bloom, to grow, to do anything! So I spaded it--and planted Oklahoma instead. I'm now having some similar problems with Oklahoma, though it is a bit more floriferous. Maybe there is something about these old classics that just doesn't like our middle of the country conditions? I don't know, but I wouldn't think own-root would help since roses tend to be even less vigorous if they are not grafted. One possibility. Did you plant the graft an inch or more below the soil line? This past winter did a number on several of my roses, even though I usually plant the graft below the soil-line. If your graft was above the line, such a brutal winter would be hard on many roses. It occurs to me that maybe it would be worth your time to see if you can find CI grafted on multiflora (like Palatine uses). Multiflora makes an even more vigorous rootstock than does Dr. Huey. Good luck. Kate

Patrick, I replaced my FC this year, it was always a puny plant (although grafted) and it didn't survive the winter. The new one is grafted as well, I bought it for $10 at a local nursery. Well I think I have gotten more blooms out of this new rose in half a year than I did with the old one for the past few years. It's very robust. I've been getting into exhibiting, and I've learned from exhibitors that the rootstock is important. Especially with these HTs. You can probably try it own root, but it's going to take longer to establish and probably never be as robust. Since I'm a bit further south than you, I am going to try some roses on Fortuiana. The exhibitors down here swear by it. You should see the size of their roses on fort. I think it would do well in your zone, if you apply a little winter protection. I have also ordered some roses on multiflora to see how that does here. I am also excited because there are two nurserys here that are now carrying Austins on fort. There are some Austins that have struggled in my yard and I am going to try to replace them. Some roses are good own root. I did get some own roots earlier this year. Playboy is doing well. Paul Ecke Jr, not as much. Not sure about Twilight Zone yet, it's still in a pot. IME Fragrant Cloud is a bit of a delicate rose, I've never seen it own root, but maybe someone has had it. Here is pic of my FC I took this weekend: