Thanks! So how tall do you let the shrub get before you start the pruning? And how often do you prune while getting it into the basic tree shape?

BTW, I'm in 7A. I keep forgetting to say that bcs I was accustomed to it being there automatically on the site I used to use.

It really depends. With a few - both of the Sambucus, for example - they were already about 10' tall before I started pruning. Sambucus may die back in winter where you are. With a lot of the Cotinus, I start when they are much younger. With many of them, at least here, there is little downside as if I don't like the look, I can just coppice them and basically start again. You have more at stake as you have a specific spot and you want it to look nice. I teach our Master Gardener tree class and I did a whole section on doing this. If I can find photos I'll post some but I'm migrating my photo library right now so I may not be able to access them.

Where are you? Is serious drought tolerance a consideration?

There are many things common sold here as standards. Weeping cherries are ubiquitous. Several varieties of hardy hydrangeas can be grown this way. However, none of these are particularly drought tolerant.

Sara, I found these instructions and am wondering if they sound about right to you. (The Rose of Sharon would be for a different location in my yard.)

instructions

That's the first time I've inserted a link - hope it works. Would appreciate seeing your pics if you run across them.

mad-gallica, how do you get your zone to show up beside your name? I looked at editing my profile but didn't see a place to put in my zone.

Anyway, I'm in 7A and I can only remember maybe 3 droughts when we were not allowed to water. And I'm talking months not years.

I don't think hydrangeas can take full sun here. I am finding more and more that even when plants are marked full sun, they need some protection from the fierce afternoon sun in the South. At least in my yard they do, LOL!!! Just last fall I had to move some roses and I've got to move them again bcs they are still getting burned.

As far as buying one, I have only looked on line since trees for fall planting won't arrive for another 6 - 8 wks. I love the weeping trees and have always wanted one but I think the branches of an 8 or 9 footer might "weep" right on to the top of my hydrangea. Guess I better measure the hydrangea so I'll know how much clearance I need under the tree canopy.

To add zone info:

Click on 'your houzz'

choose 'edit profile'

select 'advanced settings'

near the bottom there is a field labelled 'zone for garden forums'

put your zone and general location in the field

If you only put in your zone, you will still have people asking where in the world you are. Zone 7 could be New Mexico, Virginia, Alaska or France, for all we know.

those instructions are not all that bad .. on my skimming ... except its all about a rose of sharon.. and is invasive in some areas ... the rules.. if there are any... do NOt change.. based on what kind of plant you choose ... its just general pruning into a tree form ...

first.. choose and plant something.. and do not prune it for a year or two .. let it grow some roots to get on with life ...

then just start creating a trunk .. by removing side branches down low .. maybe a foot or two a year ... but not until at least.. the second year ...

try not to pick anything that suckers ... or you will eventually be in for a battle on having just one trunk ...

but often.. the best solution for a window issue.. is a window film ... for immediate problem solving.. and then you can remove it ... when the plant gets big enough ... i mean really .. even in the best circs ... you are talking 3 to 5 years .. before a reasonable sized plant.. reaches the height you need ..

ken

they are rather cheap... and very easy to install

https://www.google.com/search?q=window+films&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlpaCh2JjOAhVo54MKHfSoCqAQ_AUICSgC&biw=951&bih=745&dpr=0.9

I have two Service Berry shrubs pruned to tree form, a single trunk with a canopy that give light shade and of course bear fruit for the birds, and people but I've never tried them. In the Fall the leaves turn a beautiful orange. I did not do the pruning. I bought them as 5' specimens already in tree form. In fact, in my area they were very popular for awhile. Mine were planted in appx. 2009 and 2010. Here is a photo from April of this year after blooming(white). The tree on the left really needs the canopy branches thinned out, which I usually do but have been lazy. The one on the right competed with the privet hedge for a long time thus the tilt. It will be interesting to see how well the trunks hold up with age. I have Service Berry in shrub form throughout the property that are very old.

And the trees do sucker at ground level, so those have to be cut off or you'll have a shrub again!

Nice!

Those ARE great Mz.GG. The holly is really nice.

Thank you, Sara and Schoolhouse. :)

Hydrangea paniculata is often used to create "trees", with Limelight being the most commonly found. Around here, H. paniculata is fine in full sun, but I think might be a bit challenged in zone 7. Perhaps someone from your area might be clearer about that than I am.

How about a climbing or rambling rose trained as a pillar or umbrella shape? The rose forum people will be happy to recommend something perfect for your situation.. In my garden I have these shrubs acting as trees: lilacs (that sucker), Miss Kim lilacs (don't sucker, trained as gorgeous standards), winged euonymus (auditioning before I get rid of them), peegee hydrangeas (fabulous), shrub honeysuckle (frangrant and even attractive but a bear to control), sweet autumn clematis that can be trained to the height you want and still cascade on an umbrella shaped trellis...

Another good one is Corylus avellana 'Contorta' (Harry Lauder's walking stick), which is fun to limb up as the trunks are twisty, like the branches.

Thanks to everyone for the responses! Here's a pic of the garden so you can get a better idea of what my situation is. The smaller higher window in the middle is the one I don't want to block - at least not all of it. Can you see the mahonia under that window? It was taller before a sheet of ice and snow slid off my metal roof and just abt ruined it. Anyhow I really liked the look of something tall there and a small tree would give much needed shade to the hydrangea and hostas to the left that are getting burned, maybe even the acuba, too.

So I'll move the mahonia somewhere else, extend that center area of the garden further out into the yard and plant the tree as close as I can without having it touch the house at mature size. So you can see I will need something with a nice compact shape. I've seen a pic of a very nicely shaped Double Flowering Plum Tree at Nature Hill Nursery (but they are not available now) and that would be abt the size and shape of what I'm going for. As you can see in the pic, the main limiting factor is height.

Once the fall trees come in, I'll see what I could get locally but I want to be ready to buy a shrub to train if necessary.

For those of you who posted pics of your beautiful trees, are any of them under 9 ft?

Other notes:

1) Must require little to no pruning once trained. (I have some physical challenges that prevent me from doing as much as I would like in my yard and I am trying to make some changes towards "aging in place" or at home or whatever they call it).
2) Unfortunately, I already have a crepe myrtle just out of the pic.
3) Can't imagine any hydrangea could take 10 - 11 hrs of July, August and September GA sun even with copious watering.
4) Unfortunately, lilacs won't take GA heat and humidity.

Thanks again everyone!!

Ken_adrian, thanks for looking over the instructions and your comments. I will keep the suckering in mind.

MizGG, what is the flowering tree next to your CM? It looks too tall for my situation but I love it!

kitasei , love thr umbrella trellis idea! Will look into that.

Sara, the H L Waling Sick is such an interesting looking shrub/tree! Info I found said 8 - 10 ft high but pics of mature ones look like at least 12 ft. Would be fun though. Maybe I could put one somewhere else.

First Yard, thank you! It's a Crape, too (different variety). They labeled it wrong--was supposed to be white, but it's lavender. :)

A column or trellis doesn't seem to suit the space against a wall or your need to not require training or shaping.. Keep looking at shrubs.

kitasei, I think I will be able to prune/train it into the shape I want. But after it's in the tree form and several years old (maybe 5 or so ?), I don't want to have to keep doing regular pruning it to keep the shape. Once a year is doable. Is that unrealistic? Do you have to keep pruning them for their life span?

I meant do you have to keep doing regular pruning (more than once a year) for their life span.

Also, don't forget it will not be up against the house. I will pull that center section of the garden further out into the yard so that whatever I plant will not touch the house at it's mature size.

Yes, a rose requires ongoing maintenance. It's not the right spot for it either IMO.

That's funny Kitasei, I was just thinking that a type 3 clematis on a trellis would be just about perfect. Once a year, sometime before spring budbreak, it would need to be whacked back to 2 or 3 buds per stem. (I do this with hand shrub sheers and it takes about two whacks.) It would be OK if it didn't get done, but the blooms would be more at the top of the plant. I think that the advantage of this is that the snow dump from the roof wouldn't create harm since they do fine with an annual whack back. There are also some clematis (type 1 prune) that really don't need any pruning.

IME most shrubs will need regular maintenance to keep them tree form since they tend to want to bud out to form a shrub, either as suckers at the base or as sprouts along the trunk. So to my mind, the trellis/clematis combo would by far be easier. There may be damage to most shrubs if ice/snow slides off the roof another year. As someone who lives in an area that regularly gets snow and ice, I only plant shrubs that can be hard-pruned in the dump zone from the roof, which kind of defeats the goal of a tree form shrub or even a small tree. I would plan to plant far enough out into the yard so that whatever tree or shrub you might use is out of the roof dump zone.

Now don't laugh. Aw, go ahead and laugh - I know it's pitiful, lol! I do not have landscaping software so I used my miniscule knowledge of Paint to try to create this very rudimentary illustration of what I am trying to do.

I whited out the mahonia bcs it will be gone. The brown represents extending the center of the garden further into the yard. (If I can find or train something with a 6 ft canopy spread, I actually won't have to extend the garden as far into the yard as I drew. That garden is abt 5 feet deep already so I could plant the tree on the edge and it would only extend 3 ft towards the house.) You can see that the tree tops out at the bottom of the window.

OOps, I didn't realize it would be so little. Hopefully it will enlarge if you click on it.

Now don't laugh. Aw, go ahead and laugh - I know it's pitiful, lol! I do not have landscaping software so I used my miniscule knowledge of Paint to try to create this very rudimentary illustration of what I am trying to do.

I whited out the mahonia bcs it will be gone. The brown represents extending the center of the garden further into the yard. (If I can find or train something with a 6 ft canopy spread, I actually won't have to extend the garden as far into the yard as I drew. That garden is abt 5 feet deep already so I could plant the tree on the edge and it would only extend 3 ft towards the house.) You can see that the tree tops out at the bottom of the window.

OOps, I didn't realize it would be so little. Hopefully it will enlarge if you click on it.

NHBabbs, that is a thought, Years of work could go down the drain. Luckily it's a once every 5 - 10 years thing here but still. "Thinking out loud" now .... the snow sheet drops right in the middle of the garden so abt 2 1/2 ft from the house. If the tree trunk is 5 ft from the house and the canopy extends 3 ft towards the house, then the closest half foot of the canopy is what's in danger. I could plant the tree another half foot out and still get the shade needed.

But the need for regular pruning you mention concerns me the most. I am trying so hard to move towards making my yard low maintenance. I could handle pruning off shoots on the trunk but suckers growing from the ground require more stooping/bending and pruning the top of an 8 - 9 ft shrub/tree would require climbing onto a step stool or ladder - not good.

So it looks like I am left with 2 options: having a strong umbrella shaped trellis built and using a vine that can be whacked back in Feb./March or miraculously finding a small tree that naturally tops out at 8 - 9 ft. with no pruning required.

I'm getting kinda discouraged.

.

There are some small varieties of crepe myrtle that don't go past 12ft.

Thanks Caldwell, but it has to top out at 8 - 9 ft. or it will completely block the window. Also I already have a crepe myrtle just a few feet outside of the picture. Any other suggestions?

Sorry if this was mentioned .... I've never had one myself, so someone who has will hopefully weigh in. I was googlng dwarf trees, and it came up--

http://landscaping.about.com/od/fallfoliagetrees/p/Crimson-Queen-Japanese-Maple.htm

The size sounds good, and the color is nice. My concern would be if it would be ok in full sun/intense heat.

ETA: Ok, reading more about it, never mind. Sounds like it is prone to sun scorch. You'd have to plant another tree nearby to shade it. :D

What about black diamond crepe myrtle (I love crepe myrtles!)? They stop at about 10ft, I just bought one at walmart. They come in multiple flower colors, see links below:

===>>>>>> Pictures

===>>>>>> http://www.blackdiamondblooms.com/home

P.S. (Ken, I copied your arrows LOL)

MizzGG, your second photo is very nice. Intrigue and beauty.

first yard, 'triffic diagram. lol

No, no, don't get discouraged, first yard.

I have a Euonymus japonicus that I have tortured into a living sculpture (or at least that's the way I see it). And when it tries to regrow its branches that I so meanly cut off one year when going through ... anyway you don't want my life story. Suffice to say that I felt the need to go into the garden and prune things.

When these over-pruned shrubs-turned sculptures/trees bravely put out new buds in order to furtively regrow their branches while your head is turned, it is a simple matter to run your hand over them to remove them.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Ok, I didn't want to have admit this to all you crepe myrtle lovers but I guess I have to. I hate, hate, hate crepe myrtles!! The one in my yard was here when I bought the house and it's huge (maybe 30 ft?) bcs apparently it was never pruned. I would have it cut down if it weren't so dang expensive.

It's really not the tree itself, it's the fact that everybody in my town seems to have at least 3 of them in their yard. You can't look anywhere without seeing them.

That said, the black foliage is appealing. However 10 ft would still block the window. I have to stay under 9 maybe even under 8 1/2. 8 would be perfect - tall enough to shade the hydrangea but short enough not to block the window or look out of place in that garden. Thanks for trying tho. If it would stay at 8 ft with only yearly pruning, I'd probably break my no CM rule and get one just bcs of the black foliage.

What about training forsythia into a tree? you can cut forsythia all you want and it won't die.

tete-a-tete, I think the vigorous (to put it nicely) shrubby vine in my backyard that I have been trying to get rid of for 13 yrs is euonymus japonicus. But I looked it up and there are at least a couple of cultivars worth looking into, especially one that is said to stay shorter. (I'm sure mine is the species.) If it doesn't sucker, it might be a possibility. Thanks!

Caldwell, I love forsythia! Just never considered it bcs I thought it didn't have the right structure and growth habit to be trained into a tree. Do you know anyone who has done it successfully?

I wasn't really recommending Euonymus. In fact, I never really felt drawn to them and their leathery foliage. They are nice enough as screening shrubs when you want some green and this fellow was already in the garden when I came. Husband was not overly impressed with what I had done, but he understood my need to expend ... what I was expending.

I like the idea of Forsythia.

My mother once gave me a cutting of one from some old and almost dead friend of hers. I confess that I am not sure what became of that cutting. But it was a drooping form of Forsythia, apparently. I wonder if you could find one like that. You could play with its training over time.

Remember, any new leaf buds that are endeavouring to grow back and eventually form branches are easy to remove when young.

I found pics of pretty tree form forsythia but small forsythia was grafted onto a "standard" if I have my terminology correct. Don't know that much abt grafting. Any special problems with it? The pics of forsythia shrub trained into tree form did not look as good for my particular situation.

Dwarf peach tree. 8'-10' mature height 8'-10' mature width.

http://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/peach-trees/redhaven-peach

first yard : Contrary to the often unreliable Caldwell Home and Garden above, forsythia cannot be trained into a tree form. Those sold that way have all been grafted as you've discovered. A dwarf forsythia form is grafted onto a non-forsythia understock - perhaps privet - at the desired height. This is a novelty item not commonly seen in nurseries or gardens. If you like it, why not give one a try? Grafts can fail, but there's no reason I can think of why there should be any particular problems with a grafted forsythia.

mybrownthumb6b, I love peaches! But if it did grow to 10 ft., it would completely block the window. However, I am going to keep it in mind for a location in my backyard. Thanks!! It sounds like a great tree.

I am attempting to train a forsythia into a tree, and so far it is working. Peaches (or any other members of the prunus family) are a bad idea. These fruiting trees (even ornamentals) have many disease problems, and without a spraying program cannot be maintained.

Oh, I certainly don't want to have to spray. Thanks for the heads up on that.

What about Sambucus nigra 'Black Lace'? It's got lovely black foliage and flowers, and can be pruned into tree form. I believe it's Z 4-7.

Love that foliage! Will research. Thanks.

Caning shrubs - like forsythia - do not make good candidates for training into a tree form. They will continue to produce stems from the root crown throughout their entire garden life. Grafting on a non-forsythia root stock is about the only way I could imagine this working!

Dappled Japanese willow, Salix integra 'Hakuro Nishiki' is often sold in tree form and makes an excellent small "tree' in the appropriate setting.