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aprilneverends

Old kitchen question-getting ready to sell

aprilneverends
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

Hi everybody, wasn't sure where to ask this question, here or on "Buying and selling". Decided to start from here.

We most likely will need to sell our current place when the new one is ready.

We have a great floor plan-the kitchen is in the back of the house, so you can't see it from the entrance or the living. At the same time it's open to both dining and family room. Very comfortable set up.

The kitchen is functional, has some updates like lazy susans, and while i never liked any separate detail of it, it never irritated me as a whole. The cabinets are pickled oak, the granite is my least favorite granite (brown something), and it has a travertine backsplash with some "Tuscan" motive above the stove. Nothing to write home about, but not bad either-the colors work together, the plan makes sense.

I must add that other cabinetry in the house(vanities, linen closet, etc) and the stair rail are pickled oak too-that's what builder put there in 91. The granite and the backsplash are upgrades from the previous owners.

We changed some stuff too, like putting new flooring in,but never touched tons of pickled oak. So the place feels very cohesive right now, in this sense))

Now for the question. The house was built 25 years ago, and that's when the cabinets went in. Most of them look fine, but some are pretty worn..especially in heavy used spots, like a pantry, or where the teapot stands..all this vapor probably takes its toll on the finish.

The more I look at them the more I feel something should be done.

What would you choose?

a) to refinish/refresh them. appeals the most to me, but never did it before. Do I need a pro? will a good handyman do? (we definitely won't do it ourselves, too much on our plate) Can I refinish just the badly worn parts, or will the difference be too obvious?

b) to paint them. Frankly I can't think of a color that will work with all the other elements as well as this pickled oak..)) Unless it will be some pretty close to this pickled oak color, maybe with less pink in it. I can't make it much darker too-the kitchen is in the middle, doesn't have its own widows, and is not a big kitchen. What's harder/takes longer time, painting or refinishing?

c) to leave well alone, and reflect it in the price?

For example you consider to purchase my place and you like it. Say, you like it a lot. It has many redeeming qualities. And then you see the kitchen needs some love. You can tell exactly it's 25 years old kitchen. Functional, comfortable, but outdated, and visibly worn out in some spots. As a buyer-how much would you expect me to go down in listing price? In numbers.

Or would you think-"I have to redo it anyway, it doesn't matter"?

Will be interested in any answers and grateful for any input.

We haven't picked a realtor yet, so while it's probably a good question to ask a realtor-I decided to get your opinion first. It's a very helpful forum.

Thank you in advance:)

Comments (21)

  • 1929Spanish-GW
    7 years ago

    Is this house also in South County? That might make a difference. I'd review what's selling in your area and see what you can get away with. Will this sale most likely be a flip or a reno? If what's selling is only the "pretty" stuff, do what you can afford, then price it right and let it go.

    aprilneverends thanked 1929Spanish-GW
  • sheloveslayouts
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    It all depends on your local market. Ours is ridiculously hot right now. Even when it wasn't so hot two years ago our talented realtor's mantra for our average priced home was clean-unclutter-repair-fresh paint-clean some more.

    Recent pending sales' pictures and their "days on market" will tell you a lot. I use Redfin.com, but I don't think it's available in all markets.

    aprilneverends thanked sheloveslayouts
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  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yes, it's in the South County. We're in the nice, very manicured condo community in an upscale neighborhood. Our plan is the smallest though-comps say low 700 s or-in case the buyers were in a hurry/didn't upgrade at all-high 600 s.

    We had a lot of activity here last year and this one too-can't say for sure without checking, but something like 10 homes were sold (out of eighty). I monitor the market here very closely, and try to go to open houses too.

    It's a family-oriented place..now older homeowners leaving/downsizing/going to senior communities, and families with kids come instead.

    When we bought we were one of the youngest, and the kids didn't have any neighbors to play with. I told my husband "it's going to change in several years"-I was right of course, now many new younger families come, but we need to leave ourselves))

  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    BTW I tried to clean the cabinets with microfiber cloth..I think it made them a bit worse. In places where the finish started wearing off..

  • sheloveslayouts
    7 years ago

    It might not hurt to get a bid for painting all your cabinetry and your trim the same white.

    aprilneverends thanked sheloveslayouts
  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    White won't work with the rest of hard finishes, at all.. it was built in the peak of a "brown trend"..Tuscany and all. I think even cream won't work. It has to be a tad darker. Basically, like taking the wood color and translating it into paint.

    If it's faster/cheaper than refinishing, it makes sense. Is it?

  • Nothing Left to Say
    7 years ago

    Interview at least three local real estate agents. Ask their advice before spending any money on updates.

    aprilneverends thanked Nothing Left to Say
  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    OK..decided to check the listings..13 closed sales in 2015-16, and 4 active right now...oh my. why is that they all decided to move when we decided to move? lol

    I want to invest as little as possible..obviously..after this monstrous remodel we're going through in the new place..

    And of course it will be clean. Painted, touched up. etc. But this worn out finish doesn't look clean, unfortunately. I'll try this restor-a-finish thing first(thank you practigal).

    (I'm very anxious about interviewing three realtors, because I'll have to choose one, and what if the other two will be upset ..But I understand no one can help me with that))


  • sheloveslayouts
    7 years ago

    If they get upset, be glad you didn't choose them :-) I think this is common practice... They'll come over for a chat to see the home and then later send you a Comparative Market Analysis.

    If you need realtor recommendations, We've had good luck using Dave Ramsey's Endorsed Local Provider network of professionals (for insurance and accounting, not for Real Estate.)

    aprilneverends thanked sheloveslayouts
  • Abby Krug
    7 years ago

    Hello aprilneverends- OK I am going to try to help you feel better about rejecting two realtors ;-) Don't think of yourself as the person doing the hiring. This is a business transaction and you are acting in your business's best interests. All decisions are driven by the business and it's needs- not you. I assure the realtors are very clear on their work being strictly business. I think hiring a realtor is a particularly sticky thing for a woman because in my town most of the realtors are women I know from the community- making the transaction begin to feel like a personal one instead of a business one. Good luck with your move. Your house sounds lovely. -- BTW am I the only person who sees today's limed oak as a very close cousin of yesterday's pickled oak?

    aprilneverends thanked Abby Krug
  • Jillius
    7 years ago

    I agree that your realtor's and the market's opinions make the most sense and should drive your decision. However, you did ask for our personal opinions, so here goes.

    For example you consider to purchase my place and you like it. Say, you like it a lot. It has many redeeming qualities. And then you see the kitchen needs some love. You can tell exactly it's 25 years old kitchen. Functional, comfortable, but outdated, and visibly worn out in some spots. As a buyer-how much would you expect me to go down in listing price? In numbers.

    As a buyer, I'd expect the cost of your home to be the cost of a similar, yet fully-updated home, less the cost of remodeling, and then maybe also less another $20,000-$30,000 or so to make it worth my while to undertake the bother of remodeling.

    For our one-bedroom condo, we paid $350,000 for a complete fixer upper. Hadn't been touched or changed since 1974 when it was built to the height of 1974 fashion. Comparable condos that had similar specs/locations and were already updated were selling in the realm of $450,000 at that time. Our remodel cost us about $70,000 with the various fun surprises we had during the remodel.

    Or would you think-"I have to redo it anyway, it doesn't matter"?

    To me, your kitchen would be a gut job. It's rare to replace worn cabinets without replacing everything else (and the brown phase of the '90s is my least favorite trend of the last 50 years). Therefore, your efforts to pretty it up slightly would be totally wasted on me and I would definitely think, as you say, "I have to redo it anyway, so it doesn't matter." I'm not going to pay more for cabinets I'm ripping out just because they have paint added to them before I rip them out.

    What would make a difference to me (short of complete remodel) is the difference between an unusable gut job and a gut job that is still functional. The latter means I can live in and use the house immediately and update over time. The former means remodeling before the house is at all useful or functional to me.

    Therefore, if you were trying to appeal to me, you have already said it's functional, but I'd polish it up as much as possible in that respect. Fix anything that's cumbersome or not working. Make sure the doors/drawers move smoothly and close properly. Tighten up hardware. Replace any appliances that aren't working or are a total pain to use with something newer and functional from craigslist. Take down things that are blocking natural light if it's free/easy to do so. If the faucet and/or sink are annoying to use and cheaply (sub-$300) replaced, then replace those. Basically anything that fights you or makes you want to rip your hair out and the house apart on a daily basis. Try to reduce all problems to things that are solely aesthetic or things you definitely cannot change with an expensive remodel.

    If you have a good layout, that'd also appeal to me, so be sure to point that out in your listing. Remodeling without needing to move anything is WAY cheaper than rejigging the whole kitchen/whole house.

    It does seem as if your target buyer is someone who is planning a remodel, so I'd advertise it in a way that caters to the remodelers and never mind what people looking for turn-key beauty would find slightly more appealing.



    aprilneverends thanked Jillius
  • sumac
    7 years ago

    Like any professional there are good bad and indifferent, so choosing a RE agent can be a crapshoot unless they come with a trusted reference. So many young ones out there that have never even owned a home of their own yet! Also, you cannot decorate (or remodel) for the future owners (another crapshoot) Tastes are just too subjective. That being said I think cleanliness sells best and not just in the kitchen. In. every. single. aspect. of. the. house. If your home looks to be immaculately maintained people will be more open to having to update or remodel for their own personal tastes. My 2 cents FWIW

    aprilneverends thanked sumac
  • lam702
    7 years ago

    A clean home is the most important I think. Immaculately clean. Fresh paint helps too. Painting cabinets is a lot of work, to hire it out is not inexpensive. Check with the realtor first. If he or she feels painting the cabinets would help the sale, and you are anxious to get it sold fast, maybe that is a good idea. You won't get your money out of it unless you DIY, but it might speed up the sale. If you arent' in a big hurry to get it sold, you could wait it out for the right buyer. You say white and cream wouldn't work, but there are many, many shades of cream that you could look at, with various undertones, I'm sure you could find one that works with the brown counters.

    aprilneverends thanked lam702
  • practigal
    7 years ago

    In my area "great bones, needs updating" is code for needs an updating that MAY involve more then new paint and flooring. When it says "needs TLC" that means that in addition to paint and flooring something is quirky about the house and you had better be ready to remodel or live with a serious flaw. In both cases all of the house systems are in good working order although they are not new. "Fixer" means that in addition to new paint, flooring and fixtures probably all of the house systems need to be redone. "Fixer/tear down" means just that. Since everything ends up online it's important to take nice pictures showing a spacious rooms (because you remove the 99% of what was in them) and include the right descriptions for your property in your area so that it gets exposed to as many would be buyers as possible. A good floor plan is worth a lot, be sure to emphasize that.

    From your descriptions I think your house will be in the " immaculately maintained, great bones, needs updating" category and by having it immaculately clean people may find that there is less immediate work to be done and therefore more attractive to purchase now.

    Definitely you should interview at least three realtors if none of them put any effort into trying to get your business interview three more. Don't feel bad about the beauty pageant it's part of the business model for realtors.

    aprilneverends thanked practigal
  • annac54
    7 years ago

    When we sold our house with pickled oak cabinets, I cleaned them well, lightly went over them with steel wool, and applied a coat of clear coat. They looked a lot better since they had finish wear on the tops and sides (finger pull doors/no hardware). If your cabinets are not really dirty or too damaged, this would probably clean them up without a horrendous amount of work. As always, test it before you commit to the whole thing. Then let the next buyer decide if they want to paint, replace, whatever.

    aprilneverends thanked annac54
  • 1929Spanish-GW
    7 years ago

    Sorry to take so long getting back. I sold my condo in RSM also during an election year (2004) and the market slowed down all of the sudden with no warning. It was shocking to me. I lived in a larger complex, at a lower price point then yours. I had upgraded newer wool carpeting, granite and some other minor changes in the kitchen. My biggest issue was # of bedrooms. I was in 1br/loft, 2ba three story open plan. I loved that condo.....back to reality !

    But there were other units on the market and no one would pay for any upgrades. That's the problem when there are multiple units that look about the same in close proximity.

    First, get an agent to walk you through all the current listings and see what they have done. Then review the pics of closed listings and see what they've done, what was the closing price and how long they were on the market. That will give you a hint.

    You don't want to do a reno, so I'd just clean it up and paint the walls. For the cabinets, I'd try to make the existing finish look as nice as possible. While painting the cabinets would make a bigger difference, sounds like you'd have to paint all the wood and that's a project.

    South County shoppers like new shiny things. You just want to find someone who likes to pick their own. Or you get into a long list of upgrades you have no interest in doing. A good agent can help you get it sold.

    aprilneverends thanked 1929Spanish-GW
  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thank you very much for all the advice!

    Jillius, nothing in the kitchen fights me or makes me want to rip my hair out on the daily basis:) Except for the fact I need to sell this place. I didn't plan on it at all, but life happens.

    Nothing in this kitchen is really cheap too-after all, it's an upscale gated community..the appliances are Dacor and Bosch, the sink is Kohler, etc. All is fine.

    I obviously don't want to slap some paint without any consideration for the house as a whole. A trend doesn't matter as much as things making sense in specific house with specific architecture in specific location. Ours happens to be a rather well-executed Mediterranean..and all the homes that were sold in this community-some were updated less than us and some more than us, but they weren't changed that much from the time they were built, in terms of style. Because the style works within the house. So it won't be that brown. But just as an example -it will never be a cool gray too. And if it will-it will look totally out of place.

    The layout is amazing, it's true, and I'll definitely mention it. Architecture and layout made me put an offer on this place the moment I saw it.

    But I must add-nobody in HOA here would let you change the layout anyway..:) even if you wanted to.

    As for competitors. I'm worried. A lot. But I have a feeling they will all sell by the time we finish our remodel)) Of course I think my home looks better than theirs lol (I mean the same exact plans..obviously bigger plans go for 750 and up, and some have very nice views too) But I also suspect mine looks better mostly because I styled it better. So when the furnishings go out, it will get harder.

    Thank you so very much for all your opinions and encouragement, again. I always got so many compliments from many people about our home. I really love it. It's a bit hard to remove yourself mentally from "I live here"-and get into the mode "I sell it".

    You've been very helpful.

    I read each and every response-and I think what you think. To restore/renew would be the best way to go about the kitchen. I found a couple of companies that advertise they restore the wood finish very fast..if restore-a-finish won't work, or annac54 advice-I'll call these guys to get a quote from them.

    I wouldn't put "needs updating" in the description, in our case-all the homes here that were sold with original carpet, countertops, etc, didn't even mention updating. You see the pictures-you kinda know what you will find. You buy location, architecture, vibe..you don't necessarily buy a kitchen. A kitchen, you can buy later:) As long as you can cook in the existing one without totally hating it..

    But I will ask realtors of course..who knows what happens with this market in a month or two.

    I just want, as you've all said, to make it very, very clean.

  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I'll answer with great pleasure-I would love to show the house fully furnished! It would be really a mistake not to.

    My husband is adamantly against it though. Today, I told him (well I told him many times lol but today wasn't an exception) :


    -Do you realize we might be loosing 30 000 dollars or so, if we show our house unfurnished?

    He said his sanity is worth more.

    He's a very savvy guy(much more than me) but this remodel did us in))

    We'll see..maybe I can ask a realtor(when I have one) for private showings or something, while we still here..maybe he'll be less stressed this way.

    Thank you for your kind encouragement!

  • sheloveslayouts
    7 years ago

    You could present him with a couple estimates from Stagers who provide the furnishing, just for comparitive value. If I remember correctly, it was between $4-5000 for a 2000 sf house in a Portland suburb 2 years ago. Staging adds significant value, so people (not me, of course) are willing to pay for it.

    aprilneverends thanked sheloveslayouts
  • aprilneverends
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    That's a great plan. My husband suggested something along this lines, once. He was camping for many years before he met me, anyway. Just without dresser, bed side table, actually-any table(he had a cardboard box for that), and without a bed too. He will thrive, no doubt.

    But then it will be killing my sanity..))