Make a list of your requirements. For example, I think the soil does better if my beds are narrow enough so I don't walk in them. I like lasagna beds because I don't need expensive equipment to get started. I built my beds on old weedy lawn. Edging them with shallow trenches helps keep runner weeds out of the beds and the riding lawn mower can get closer.

I like some beds to be dedicated to a particular vegetable. Obviously the winter squash need to be where they can run rampant. I also like to have potatoes in a separate bed. After a first hilling, I heavily mulch with straw.

Location of water source? Since our driveway runs along the south side of our house only a few feet away, I had to drag hoses across the driveway and then over the lawn to the veggie beds. A few years ago my husband built a high tunnel for me and installed a yard hydrant plus a hose reel on a heavy duty stand. This meant burying the water line. It's wonderful but it was something he could do himself otherwise it is probably a big investment.

I don't want to have expensive power equipment so I plant densely in beds using ideas from Square Foot Gardening. I do have wide grass paths and have been toying with the idea of replacing with gravel but I also think it's important to have a lot of green.

Location of compost bin? I had ours in shade. That was a stupid place to put it. It's now in a more convenient place. A 3-bin system. Due to distance to our weed dump and all the things I like to carry around, I have an old riding lawn mower with the mowing deck removed that pulls a cart. I also have a nice garden cart but when I have 5 or 6 pails of manure to haul around, I like gasoline power.

I think whatever you have, you will need more compost and composted manure every year so you might need a dump spot.

I usually use a spading fork every spring because there are some kind of weeds to remove and I like to turn over whatever soil amendments I might be adding. I don't double dig. I don't think it's necessary.

Agree that the quality of the native soil is crucial info to have first. That alone would rule out any need for lasagna or double-digging and their limitations.

Then all sorts of other factors come into play - cost to construct, size, ease of care, season extension issues, planting layouts, garden equipment you have, production amounts, your access to regular supply of soil amendments, need for varmint fencing, your amount of available time and energy, E-W orientation, appearance, to name just a few.

From a purely amount-of-production point of view then nothing beats a good old in-ground garden IMO. I have both in-ground and raised beds and the in-ground will out produce the raised beds 2x over.

Ease of care is about the same for both IF you have the necessary equipment - at least a large heavy duty tiller for in ground and/or a smaller lightweight one for the raised beds.

If for some reason I had to pick just one, then in ground garden would win hands-down but that is just what works best for me. So this is just some thoughts to consider for your situation.

Dave

A lot depends on the dedication to gardening, the time available, being present during the gardening season reliably, and the crops desired.

If a few kitchen gardening items are the interest, I suggest a raised bed. If large gardens are desired, I am with Dave above. I don't do any bordered beds. I tend to have wide beds. Most of my beds are highly amended and stand about 5 inches taller than originally. My beds go from 7 feet wide to 20 feet. They run parallel to each other with a minimum of waste. I can walk on them some.

The chic bordered beds are citified gardening. I am out in the country and have a lot of space with good to excellent soil.

What I like about a long narrow bed is that it helps me pay attention to how much I am planting. Six broccoli plants are enough. I'm not tempted to make a longer row planting more than two of us can eat. I like a wider bed for things like potatoes and heavily mulched garlic. Also, the concrete reinforcing panels we use for trellises are 8' long. If I was feeding a family of 5, I would do larger beds.

This will be the first place I have actually owned land, so I have limited vegetable experience. Mostly just containers, places people have let me put in a small bed here and there, and seeing my moms garden growing up. And all of the things I read on here from wonderful, experienced people such as yourselves!

I work outside, so for now the labor is not prohibiting me from doing any sort of bed. I cannot do a soil test yet since I don't own it yet, but looking at GIS information the soil looks to be well drained, but possibly not very fertile. The area is currently weedy lawn dominated by crabgrass. I think the idea of a hydrant by the garden is great, and something I could install. The compost bin can go near the garden easily. I have planted a little bit of a lot with varying success but my main interests have been sweet potatoes and chili peppers. I would like to have a lot of standards such as tomato, squash, beans, onions, maybe corn for novelty if nothing else.

Dave, as far as doing an in ground garden, would you just till or do something else to get rid of the crab grass? Smother in the fall and till in the spring? Any thoughts on what all the no till people have to say?

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I am excited about the possibilities, learning and work I have before me with the new garden and I am thankful to have a resource like this to learn from as I get started.

"Dave, as far as doing an in ground garden, would you just till or do something else to get rid of the crab grass? Smother in the fall and till in the spring? Any thoughts on what all the no till people have to say?"

Well I'm old and a life-long believer in tilling for many reasons. So I'll pass on commenting on the no-till claims as that always turns into arguments. ;-)

As for the initial ground breaking it would pay to have someone with a tractor and heavy duty plow do the initial turn over. They can get it much deeper and so bury the crab grass deeper than any tiller can. Otherwise you are looking at renting a sod stripper and stripping off as much of the grass layer as possible first.

If you can go that route then one more good tilling this fall to work in several inches of compost may do it. Spread on the thick mulch and leave it till spring.

But as I said how well it will work all depends on location and climate. The further south you are the warmer the winter climate and the less weed kill you get. Also the faster decomposition you get of the compost. So it is possible you may need to add more compost and till again in the spring before planting.

Dave

What do you have at your disposal?

For instance, I have a trailer and enjoy collecting animal manures. And leaves. It is almost a hobby. Well it is a hobby, I confess.

If you knew someone who had spoiled hay, then you might decide to make use of that and have a lasagna style of bed.

A raised bed is a bed in a garden that is raised. It is still in the garden. Raised beds have better drainage than beds that are no higher than the surrounding soil. And good drainage is important for most plants.

If you are handy, you might get a kick out of constructing some raised beds. Even just of a simple construction and not particularly high. Maybe a foot high.

Regarding soil, the soil in your garden is probably going to be better than anything you can buy.

And narrow beds are terrific for ease of movement and not having to tread on the soil.

Also, what about wind breaks? You might want to think about where the prevailing winds come from and how you can protect the vegetables from them. Tomatoes in particular hate, loath and detest wind. (Not so much the small-fruiting types but the ones with larger tomatoes.)

I have double-dug permanent beds that are outlined in rock. The double-digging was necessary because the beds needed to be outlined with wire due to gophers. I started with raised beds with wood sides and wire attached to the bottom. I find that these were not as productive as my in-ground double dug beds and once I did the math on the cost of lumber and amendments, it was not going to be feasible anyway. I am now experimenting with burying a lot of wood for a modified hugelkultur bed in these double dug beds. It will be a while before I know how well it is working. The rocks lining my bed are free (except for the labor with the wheelbarrow).

My biggest recommendation to you is to start slowly and play around with things to develop an idea of how things work in your location, discover what you enjoy growing and what the needs are of those things you enjoy. You may find things that are simply not worth the trouble to you and you may be surprised by other things. Do not put out a lot of money unnecessarily until you know what you like and understand the process. There will be discouraging times (pests, diseases, weather, etc) and it helps to not have spent a lot of money that is going to be wasted for that year.

Dave, is there a time of year to till? Or is it just so much more difficult after a freeze it isn't worth it? How deep would the big tractor be digging? I am still young enough that double digging 10-20 feet after work is not a big deal, and might be easier to orchestrate than finding someone with a large tractor and plow to come into the suburbs.

I have built a few raised beds for friends and it was fun building them, but if the primary quality they will give me is a different look, and possibly be less productive I wouldn't want to spend the money. I have a worm bin now, so I am making some worm poo, and I could see myself hunting out leaves for compost... I never would have thought about a wind break, I assumed staking or tomato cages would be sufficient. Its the little things!

Would there be any possible downside to the first few years of a hugelkulur bed? I am on board with frugal gardening, I am planning to save as many seeds as I can from my patch work garden of containers and plants tucked away at friends houses and by the shop at work so I can start things from seed again this year and buy a few less packets. Going with the flow and seeing what works makes sense, I am excited to see what it all can be!

Depends on how much wind you might get. Last week in NH there was enough wind to take down some trees. Not so bad in our town but the zucchini plants got windblown. Wind strong enough to blow our old aluminum lawn chairs around. Good points about how much you want to deal with. We used to grow corn at our other house until the raccoons got smarter than us. It's much easier to stop at the local farm stand although I've been less happy with my formerly favorite stand now that they've switched to succession planting a super sweet variety (no more Silver Queen).

Sometimes you can find free stuff on Craigslist. I started my first lasagna bed with grass from someone down the road that just piled his cuttings in the corner. My husband lets clippings lie where they fall unless I ask him to bag the cuttings for use in the garden. Some people get free wood chips when crews are cutting trees for the power company and ask the crew to dump on their property.

You might want to invest money/time in something like a cold frame or low tunnel. Here in NH I can get a late crop of bush beans IF the bed is covered by Agribon low tunnel. We get a light frost in mid-September but if I can protect the plants for one or two nights, there is still a couple of good weeks of growing season and no frosts. We are in a low area so get frosts that our neighbors up the road don't get. My seed starting light stand was built from scrap lumber and discarded fluorescent lights.

tete-a-tete makes a good point about collecting things.

Have you decided on permanent beds, rows, some combination? Raised beds don't need to have walls. Simple tilled and amended soils will be raised above the ground level. But as mentioned above, whether you decide to use walled/unwalled raised beds, or any other layout, should depend on the quality and make up of the native soil. There are many considerations... whether the ground is flat, sloped, sandy, rocky, etc... Then there's the desired width of the beds.... All these considerations depend largely on the land and the composition of the soil.

I have permanent unwalled beds using the native clay, heavily amended and mulched with organic matter. The land is sloped, so I have built terraces. These decisions were based on the land I am working with. I use a tiller to initially turn the virgin clay, and once the beds are amended, they just require a digging fork to turn them each year. Eventually they may not need turning/tilling at all, but it takes quite a long time in the Southern States to get clay in any shape for no-till.

You can rent a heavy-duty tiller to turn the soil. If you rent it on a Saturday, most places give you Sunday for free. Till in the fall... or really as soon as you can now and mulch heavily. You could do a fall garden in the space, plant a cover crop, or leave it mulched with a thick layer of organic matter (straw, hay, leaves, compost, ect... or any combination of such products) until spring. You can dig it by hand if you wish, it's good exercise - just have proper expectations of the work involved and the time it will take. Again though, this too depends on the composition of the native soil. You might have bedrock right there at the surface.

Anyway, blank slates are nice, but too many options can stall decisions. Let the land, and your preferences narrow your considerations.

'How deep would the big tractor be digging? I am still young enough that double digging 10-20 feet after work is not a big deal,'

And you will do a better job of it than a tractor, because a plough produces a hard pan beneath the dug bit, which is not good. Also, the dug bit tends to be too fine and the soil structure is damaged.

How many in your family? For the 2 of us we have 4 4x8s and 2 3x3 raised beds (due to gophers). Also 2 3x7s that I cover and use for winter stuff. I have 3 3x8x1 raised up beds that I have minimal success with for winter greens etc (trouble with soil mixture)

Anyway, for the 2 of us this is plenty of growing space.

A couple of things I would really pay attention to is pathway width! If you have the space, make the paths 3' wide. Due to some space constraints we had 1 and 2' paths and it isn't good for your back to be messing with a wheelbarrow in that small space! Also truck or lawn tractor accesibility! When we started, we could back our truck into the yard. After some other garden stuff we couldn't! We did, however create a section of our outer fence so an 8' panel could be removed to access the garden (or move furniture or whatever)

The raised beds were built over several years and haven't needed much besides a truck load of soil/compost every couple of years. We top with our own compost each year.

Also, decide what you want to grow and if it is worth it! I've found that for 2 people, corn gets ripe all at once and I don't have much luck freezing it! OTOH, a 6 pack of basil will make pesto for the year AND keep my chiropractor happy!

Certain things are very easy to freeze/process, others aren't! I have been inundated with crookneck and zuks this year and have found a refigerator pickle recipe that is great! All the neighbors will get some! LOL

Good luck and happy gardening! Nancy

I am thinking that it sounds like double digging will be the best, most economic way to go. I dug two short rows for a friend this year and they seem to be producing well. Is it recommended to add some compost or other organic matter as I fill back in after digging, or is top dressing sufficient?

The family is two for now, though after long days at work I eat enough sometimes it seems like there are more. I have been making hot sauce from peppers I have in containers and my small gardens, so I will plan to have a sizeable chili pepper section.

Nancy, what is in between your garden rows? I should have plenty of space, that is a great idea to space them out a little more.

Yesterday I walked around a field grown perennial nursery. Plants they have grown, get potted up and either put on tables or on black fabric covered ground. I was shocked by how hot it was to walk on the black fabric. It was also hot but not as hot to walk on the gravel walkways. As I've posted, we have grass walkways between the beds. I have considered a hard packed gravel (like our driveway) so I don't have as much problem with creeping runner weeds but I think the grass makes for cooler temperatures. I also wonder how healthy the soil is when it gets covered either by fabric or gravel/stone. Here in NH, my plastic covered high tunnel with the sides rolled up and double front doors left open heats up to 104 F this time of year on a sunny day. The plants inside are doing fine but I am amazed at how hot it gets by 10am. Since we usually have snowy winters, my husband made a cape-style wood frame for the plastic so the roof is quite tall in the middle.

groundskeepersmally, LOL, about the sizeable chili pepper section. This year I am just beginning to learn about different varieties and have about 30. I started 3 seeds of each, got poor germination on some, and gave away others so in most cases I only have one plant of each variety. I have them growing in different beds with some in the high tunnel where peppers and tomatoes have always done well for me. Have fun!

Thirty varieties, wow! I have seven now. This was my second year starting from seed, heat seems to help germination for most of them. Any insight on which beds they are happiest in?

A grass strip does seem like the easiest thing, but runner weeds and sprawling plants I could see as two problems. I feel like wood chips would be a good option if I could get up with some tree guys. Or if I got a small chipper/shredder to make some...

It's hard to say about happiest place because I have peppers with maturity dates ranging from 60 days (shishito) to 100 (Aji Dulce #1). Carmen has always been prolific for me but it's a sweet Italian roasting type. The cayennes have also produced a lot of peppers so far and some are already turning color. With the unusual high heat in NH this summer, it might be they are all happy unlike a year when we've had a cold rainy summer.

The trick with the grassy paths is to dig about a 6" deep trench with a sloped side. It seems to reduce the amount of root infiltration and the mower can get closer to the bed. The other thing that works is to edge the bed with folded newspaper covered with grass clippings. Again, the mower can get closer and the newspaper/grass mulch keeps down the weeds. Right now I have a bed edges on the east with a border of self sowing calendula which needs a little weeding but not much at this point in the summer. The bed contains carrots and two rows of beets. Pea trellis in the middle. West end of the bed is now devoted to summer squash and zucchini and since the leaves are shading the bed completely, there's hardly any weeds. The mower can get close. My husband does the mowing and the mower must just push the squash leaves out of the way as it goes by. The bed containing bean trellis with peppers on either side has a trench and seems not to have many weeds. I just grab the few I see when I do walk throughs. Garlic and potatoes are heavily mulched with straw. It's amazing how much 1 bale will cover. Bales cost $10 this year and I get at least two years of use out of the straw.

Groudskeepersmalley, If possible in your Zone 7 I would recommend this particular method….Skip to 2:40 for the gardening information:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWA7ZLJKa08

At my homestead I use homemade compost, leaves, grass clippings, etc. Today I laid down a box of beet tops between rows after harvesting an 8' row for canning pickled beets (yielded 9 quarts).

If you can use this method it will practically eliminate watering and weeding, promote productivity, and eliminate the need for any tilling, or otherwise disrupting the the soil life-web again in your garden.

Grass paths would be so much nicer than wood chip ones. Easy to move wheels on, easy to keep trim; grass is good for the soil and it provides fresh greens to get your compost heap hot.

Re adding stuff to the soil when digging, carefully use your own judgement. Does The Stuff look good? So much stuff that is sold is rubbish.

Was going to watch the youtube but must duck out.

However, I see it's about ant poison.

You don't need to poison ants in a garden situation. They don't do any harm and apparently they even eat white ants which is a pretty good service.

Sometimes I upset an ants nest when digging. Mostly I try to put off my excavations while they move their eggs to (hopefully) safer areas devoid of earth quakes.

We started about 15 years ago not knowing much at all about gardening (hadn't discovered this forum yet!)

So at the time, we laid down old carpet from the carpet store dumpster and covered with wood chips. This as around the raised beds, not under them.

We have discovered that the old carpet does rot, but we have an endless supply of wood chips, so we're in good shape.

I would love grass, but we're at the (hopefully) end of a 4 year drought here in CA and it is politically/environmentally incorrect to have a lawn of any sort (Unless you're incredibly rich and live in LA)

We get basically no rain from May to October.

I've had gravel in another part of my yard and didn't like it at all. I still got weeds! I am on the wind side of a horse field, so weeds are a given. Nancy

We've been having a wet Winter this year and all around me is moist soil and one garden bed in particular has never looked so lush. So easy to forget about drought in these conditions.

However, so much moisture is lost due to prevailing winds. If everything is looked after (which is a big huge ask and takes time and effort) so that the vegetable garden is well protected, maybe grassy paths here and there would not be frowned upon (especially if out of sight).

Just a thought.

Here in Maryland lawns areas may go dormant in the hottest weeks of summer, but especially for those not as concerned with the lawn being strictly fescue, it is not difficult to politically and environmentally maintain a lawn, though surely there are arguments to be made for different methods of lawn care.

I think that if I can procure wood chips that seems like an easy thing to throw down and not have to worry about getting a mower in.

The deep mulch method I have heard about, it is very interesting to me. Maybe that can be an experimental bed. I am thinking that if I did some double digging, and maybe some just smothering lasagna method, I could have a comparison to see how much the tilling helps. Maybe I can have some deep mulch beds as well. I suppose it would only be fair to include a walled raised bed due to their popularity, so maybe I will make one of those also, though after hearing the testimonials of in ground gardens or more simple raised beds, I am feeling less inclined to spend the money on lumber. Perhaps if I find some free boards it will be a little better. Then there could be the question of tilling under the raised bed or not! Or maybe thats just too much.

Keep in mind those options are not necessarily exclusive of each other. You can do a lasagna bed in a raised bed. You can double dig, then add the raised bed frame, then plant.

I am tempted to try a bed or area of all of the suggested styles, but I feel that I might need to pick up a little more square footage first!

you are going to develop a favorite bed as you experiment and get experience. I had a lot of time our first summer moving to a new property but not planning to start a garden until the following year. I had a monster lasagna bed or two. I still like to do a few layers to add organic matter to my beds. This summer I am attempting to top beds with composted leaves/grass clippings and considering a green manure crop on one bed.

'I am tempted to try a bed or area of all of the suggested styles, but I feel that I might need to pick up a little more square footage first!'

'Keep in mind those options are not necessarily exclusive of each other.'

With raised garden beds:

The gardener has hopefully dug the soil nicely (not with a machine). If there is some home made compost at hand, then it's nice if that is added and dug in.

Some raised beds are fenced or bricked or boarded up but others have sides which are nothing more than soil. They are all called 'raised beds'. Hopefully all raised beds are in contact with the soil and that soil has been included. I don't understand why people buy in rubbish and use that.

(There is no good stuff out there. You almost certainly can't buy it.)

(I am talking about soil. No one sells good soil. Almost no one. One person was selling good soil some months ago and I was so surprised, that I didn't get it. It just doesn't happen. Well, it did, but only once. I could kick myself.)

Then there is the no dig method. One of these methods is the lasagna bed. Another no-dig method could be the straw bale approach. The man who started that and wrote a book about it had at his disposal a huge whopping load of straw bales. He lived on a farm. So for him, it made sense. I tried it just for fun but it was half-hearted and so my results were half-hearted. The fact is, I have lovely soil because I have been improving it for 25 years. (And I've only ever used stuff I collected for free.) And it makes sense that I garden in that.

(With one exception. I think that the beauty of straw bale gardening is that your young plants would get an earlier start in the season. I live in a cold temperate climate and for me, that would be a great advantage.) (The reason they get an earlier start is because it's nice and warm in those straw bales. Not like sitting in the cold ground.)

I think it's great to try one digging approach and one non-digging approach. If you spread yourself too thin, are you going to be able to really make a good attempt?

tete-a-tete, Concerning 'nobody sells good soil....A place near me bought a 7 acre field and sold that topsoil. I bought a 10 yard load. But that is rare.

I do digging...mixing in partly composted things and amendments.

I do have some concerns about being spread a little thing and being overly ambitious and having some gardens get overly weedy or plants needing more care than I make time for. But I will be starting most everything from seed, and using cheap or free soil amendments, so if a few gardens don't do so well due to neglect, I will have to keep that in mind as I decide which garden style works the best for me in that spot. Any way, I won't be out much money, mostly just sweat and time. The more lessons I can learn through sweat and time, and the less I learn through spending money the better, right?

Yes, wayne. It can happen, but it happens so rarely that when people talk about buying in soil/mulch/compost, what they tend to get is stuff that isn't as good as what they already have: their topsoil. And they can improve their topsoil best by making their own mulch and compost. But it takes time. HOWEVER, it is fun and satisfying.

groundskeepsmalley, I agree. Anyway, experience is the best teacher. (I like your attitude.)

In Maryland there is more and more widely available bulk compost. Some people who I trust claim that it is "pretty good stuff." The two main ones I know of are municipal compost, so I would have questions about how long, if ever, it takes for lawn treatment chemicals to be inert or gone or whatever from peoples lawn clippings. The closest one is made by the county and has the latest batchs lab tests actually available online. For 20 some dollars a cubic yard it is more than compost I can make, but I can't make yards of compost available whenever I want them.

If you would like to have lots of compost, and you have space, you can get a load of wood chips for free from the companies that trim trees for the utilities.

Just be sure to order it in the late spring or summer when the trees are chipped with their leaves. Leave the chips alone (you can use as many of them wherever you like in the meantime of course) for 6 - 8 months. Then, sift them through a screen such as hardware cloth. It does help to sift them through a large screen to get out the larger chips, then run them through a smaller screen to get out everything larger then 1/4".

This will give you yards of compost just by waiting. Not everyone has the space, but if you do, it's a good way to get a lot of compost for free - well, for a bit of time and effort.