hilariously, another gardenweb user killed their gingko tree with aluminum foil. no, it is not a conifer.

Yes, we know, It is a gymnosperm, which includes conifers, so they share certain characteristics. Thanks for the late heads-up though... ;p... How did they manage to kill it with aluminium foil??

subtropix - 'As long as I can provide six months of sun and heat,' is a cruel joke';-)

FWIW Cycads are grown indoors here.

I've seen Sago palms in many a shopping mall and hotel atrium, subtropix. It's more adaptable to indoor culture than you may realize. What prevents it from being extremely common is its very slow growth and subsequent high price at the cash register.

Tara, one more say on your choice of language. The GardenWeb is NOT a community where members can say whatever they want. That there is an established decorum is just one reason why we are arguably the most successful forum of its kind on the internet.

Your term is a childish one and not worthy of someone flagging your post and having the administers look at it. But, I daresay you have not seen worse in these forums, because abusers of the community are quickly yanked and even banned from participation.

I'd like you to think of my comments as a friendly reminder that this may not be a forum like others you may frequent. You agreed to respect the rules when you signed on, like it or not.

Those of us who have been members of this wonderful community since its origin tend to be protective of it. It is a safe, respectful web destination for people of all ages, all nationalities, races,and religions. It's success is possible only because we, the members, behave ourselves when we pay a visit.

If I can just put my oar in here. This really is turning into a mountain out of a molehill and I believe largely hinges on misinterpretation. Tara's term is really very mild in our version of English. (Ask Campanula) You will hear it in normal conversation between educated and professional people in informal settings and it is generally said entirely tongue in cheek, just as she used it. She was replying to me and I understood exactly what she was on about. I personally wouldn't use it on GW because I have learned to tread carefully when exercising what is to me normal humour. People get very touchy. Words are often used differently on the two sides of the pond. For example, posters on here often use the word 'bugger' to mean some small bug or other. Over here the word has an entirely different meaning and is a fairly serious insult. I was quite shocked when I first saw someone use it here. But I realised it was understood differently and certainly would not have made a big fuss about it.

Quite. It was just a joke.

Let's just move on, ok? ;o)

Indeed, I see some people on this side of the pond use vulgar and childish language without thinking about it, but as Rhizo said, I wouldn't do it on here (or anywhere really, but that's just me). I think what drew my attention to it, even more than the original "offense" is when Tara wrote, "Did I say that out loud...?".

_____________

As for the ginkgo, I never have figured out why anyone would ever consider it a conifer. I guess they needed to stick it somewhere and just didn't have another classification handy. In their desire to simplify the system, they just added it into the conifer division without much consideration.

Subtropix, you must not have read my whole comment, or, must not be aware that ginkgos have indeed been considered (incorrectly so), by some, as part of the conifer division (botanically speaking).

Ginkgo were at some point lumped in with conifers. They are both (along with Cycads and Gnetales,) gymnosperms). They are no longer included in coniferophyta, however the American Conifer Society includes them under our umbrella, but that is a rather arbitrary decision. Ginkgo now have their own phylum/division (one of five of the seed-bearing plants), as well as class, order, family and genus. Taramaiden your language is fine by me.

"Let's have a heated debate!"

(For those old enough to remember 'Mrs Merton'...) Oi..! **Rolleyes**

my ginkgo still remains in its original pot, because my part of the world has seen unseasonal diluvial conditions, which even for us, is uncharacteristic and most unwelcome.

The UK is known lyrically as a 'Green & Pleasant Land' and I truly believe that there is no country more beautiful in the Spring, than here (Browning even wrote a loving panegyric poem...) but goodness me, enough's enough! A couple of weeks ago, we had enough rain in 2 hours, to match our annual average rainfall. This past Saturday we had the mother of all hailstorms that ripped several of my garden plants to shreds.... Thunder, lightning, wind, torrential downpour - then the hard bits. Oh, my, God. The hard bits.

And it's cold. I mean, 'jumper and jacket' cold.

So, if anyone could transport a bit of "Good Ol' Summertime", our way, that would be truly much appreciated.

Thank you.

Tell me about it! I'm walking to work in the same coat and scarf I was wearing in January. Yesterday I was contemplating gloves. Looking out of the window I see just a wall of wet green. It's like living in an aquarium. Temp is 57f.

... Where I work, our summer t-shirts are purchased by optimistic hopefuls, or those escaping to warmer places. On the plus side, sales of brollies have hit the roof....

And isn't it a lovely shade of green...?!

I just got back from the UK and the weather was dreadful. And this coming from someone who lives four months out of the year in arctic-like conditions. We were there two full weeks and I think it rained every day. But I agree, it is lush and quite beautiful.

I'm sorry you had such a poor climactic reception, maakia, I hope however, that the people were warmer and more accommodating!

We do have some lush, green growth, but honestly, even for us, this is definitely OTT!

I'm looking out of my living room window, and it's windy, wet and decidedly uninviting!! The grass needs cutting, the leaves are strewn everywhere, and the weeds are abundant and prolific! (Why can't cultivars behave like weeds?!)

The people were as warm as the weather cool. :)

Subtropix wrote, "I would like to see where Gink(g)os have ever been classified as CONIFERS."

I'm very surprised you haven't run into that numerous times, Sub. It's pretty common in older (and not that old) botanical and horticultural literature. I've seen it debated in publications of the Conifer Society not that long ago, and I've seen current, prominent GardenWeb members make the claim (which kind of surprised me).

I want bother giving you a lot of references, because, if you really want them, a quick Google search should turn up as many as you want. But, for an example, the Ginkgo pages reports, "In earlier classification systems the Ginkgo tree was placed in the class Coniferopsida, because it is thought to be more related to conifers than to any other gymnosperm...". I'm a little amazed that many university publications STILL insist that ginkgos are conifers, placing them in the Pinopsida Class, etc.

Aaaargh! Potayto, Potahto....! I think we get it now... It's just descending into "I want to be more right than you" territory, and just so's you know? The ginkgo doesn't really give a damn what anyone thinks it is. It's been here a while, and will in all probability be here a long while after we've done arguing about it. So it was a conifer, but isn't a conifer, but it's like conifers.

Cool.

And now: The weather.

I don'r want to say anything too loudly, but we actually have a blue sky out here.... cue Jeff Lynne....

This website page is very interesting....

Missing link Tara.

No, it's there. Word 'this' is link... (Unless you're inferring I am the missing link. You could very well be right, there!!)

Aha - I see. My eye sight is very poor. When I add links I bold and italicise them so people like me can see them ;-)

Good tip, I take the hint!

Tara, I came across this inspirational source and thought I'd share it with all Ginkgo lovers (or is it 'Gingko'; interesting we can't agree with the spelling along with the botanical classification of this transcendent species).

http://kwanten.home.xs4all.nl/hiroshima.htm

Yes, I knew about this, but thank you so much for posting it. If I remember rightly (and I may be mistaken, but I don't think I am... ) I think reading about this very tree, many years ago, is actually what fuelled my interest in the ginkgo.... Isn't it amazing? I think if we could all cultivate (pardon the pun) this amount of compassion and desire for Peace, on a global level, the world would be a happier, more stable and friendly place. Make love, not war - grow a ginkgo!!

Wouldn't be me if I didn't run this thing down a different tangent, but evidently, the oldest species on earth is the cinnamon fern, essentially unchanged since the Carboniferous era. That's an old gene line!

Maybe some bacteria's got it beat-I don't know-but for plants, that's a record.

I've never heard of it so it doesn't count.

(I'm kidding.)

That's wonderfully impressive actually. I could do with one to plant in the same pot as my ginkgo, and then gradually turn my garden into a prehistoric show house!

Hmmmm.......I always thought that is was the horsetails, Equisetum species, that were the oldest surviving "fossil" plants, dating back to around 350 million years. No doubt changed a bit over the eons, as 100' tall equisetum trees were common in those days. Maybe that's the difference - the fern virtually unchanged while the horsetails shrank :-))

There is a lovely book, called simply 'Ginkgo', by Peter Crane (he used to be the director of Kew). It is not a gardening book, rather a history of this remarkable tree. A wonderful read if you are a Ginkgo fan.

I've added it to my 'Amazon' basket! Many thanks for the heads-up!

Yes GG, Equisetum has got to be of roughly the same "vintage" I pretty much just echoed something I read somewhere, probably Science Daily. And also yes, perhaps it is the shrinking of the horsetails that account for Osmunda cinnamomea's ranking.

"Aaaargh! Potayto, Potahto...The ginkgo doesn't really (care) what anyone thinks it is...And now: The weather."

I'm wondering if I am the only one that doesn't understand the intent of some of Tara's posts. It seemed like the original post was an attempt to provide information (although I am not really sure that that was the only, or main, goal). But, then later, it seems as if she is saying that she has no real interest in learning or discussing facts about the plant. Maybe it's a language/culture thing? I can't tell.

Facts I'm interested in.

Arguing the minutiae of whether it is a conifer or not, or its classification, becomes redundant after a while. It is what it is.

I'm not sufficiently attracted to botany for me to actually care one way or the other.

The fact is, I have a ginkgo.

There's my pleasure.

If you'd like to have a continual debate as to its precise botanical classification, be my guest.

But feel free, in that case, to start your own thread.

And please, don't 'discuss' me in the third person, as if I have no opinion. I'm not a sidelined observer, you CAN speak to me directly, you know.

More appropriately though, via messaging.

I'm open to all.

"...the minutiae of whether it is a conifer or not..."

See that's one of the kinds of things I don't understand here. To me, what something is, is like "Fact Number One". Without that, it's much more difficult to understand or determine everything else. I can understand possibly not caring about the botanical name, for instance, but that would be a different thing.

If you'd like to have a continual debate ...feel free...to start your own thread."

See that's another thing I don't quite get. YOU were the one that mentioned it being a conifer. I don't really think there is a rational for a debate about it. The facts are pretty well determined (at least now). Typically, on GardenWeb we discuss things in the thread that they are brought up in. If someone makes a statement that's not true, it's often helpful, sometimes to the original poster but almost always to the general audience, to point out the actual truth of the matter. In fact, that's what makes GardenWeb a place where people can learn new things!

Yes, but I got this at comment number 3 when gardengal expanded on it. Why is this 'debate' still going on?

Well, my goodness me... finally had some respite from the constant downpour that is British weather... Got a chance to pot on my Ginkgo. So I prepared the pot with good drainage, a good compost (John Innes No. 3) and then knocked the ginkgo out of its original pot - and found a well-established red ant's nest.

Oh goody.

so I knocked off as much of the soil as I could, to rid the soil of ants, and was left with the root ball which was still in a 'rectangular' form, from the previous pot it had been in.... Plunged it into a bucket of rain water, and left it for 20 minutes...

Then, I took it out and drained it well. There is good evidence of new root growth.

I planted the ginkgo, as per nursery instructions, so that the top of the graft was level with the surface of the soil, staked it and watered it in well.

It's probably going to take a little time to settle down and to establish itself, but goodness, if it can live through Hiroshima, I'm betting this bit of upset is not going to faze it too much.... :D

Congratulations!

Just ordered the book recommended by Sara above, and it'll be my first Summer read and I can't wait to get it!

I guess most enthusiasts are growing MALE cultivars due to the stench of the female fruit (which is highly esteemed by Asians btw for various reasons).

Spent yesterday ripping out a colony of Onoclea sensilis (Sensitive fern) from under my Ginkgo tree. Been warm and dry here (going to very HOT and dry) and that fern lives up to its name and goes brown in both heat, drought, or temps in the 30's even without frost. Have LOTS of other ferns though as they are all deer proof. Probably will just mulch the area and place my other Jurassic collection under the Ginkgo..., cycads and Dawn Red potted trees

Oooh, would love a photo of that, when it's done, that should prove very attractive! Yes, as soon as payday comes round, I'm ordering the book, too!

I'm going to get in touch with the nursery I purchased THIS specimen from, and ask them about a female cultivar. I fancy a nut or two. But maybe I'll have a bit of a wait, for that luxury!

Tara, Ginkgo is a commonly planted tree in New York City, including Manhattan (I think it is because of its tolerances for air pollution and heat and drought (and some of these trees almost seem to be growing out of concrete. Female trees are not unknown and old world Asians know where they are planted for harvesting the smelly fruits (just don't know what they are used for).

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/nyregion/the-female-ginkgo-trees-acrid-smell-of-success.html?_r=0

I love Japanese food, and there is an amazing place in London that used to be called the Yaohan Plaza (Now 'Oriental City') which is basically everything Japanese you can think of. I bought some ginkgo nuts there, already prepared and processed, and put them into some Miso soup. Unforgettable yet indescribable flavour. But you have to know how to cook and prepare them from raw, and honestly, I wouldn't have a clue....Canny Orientals!

Ginkgo typically take 25-30 years to set fruit so if I have any female trees, it will likely not be my problem!

I haven't found the fruit to be a problem except if the tree is planted over a sidewalk or driveway, or very near to where people are commonly present (picnic area, etc). Out in a yard or especially in a field or wild area, the fruit shouldn't cause any problems. I think people get overly concerned about this issue.

" I think people get overly concerned about this issue."

Agreed. There's a mature female Ginkgo at the Minnesota Landscape Arb that produces fruit. When I first ran across it I was anxiously awaiting a grand funk after seeing the ground littered with its legendary putrid stench. What a letdown.

Maybe I'll just stick to lovin' it for all its other attributes....! I am on the lookout for a variegated variety from the nursery I purchased this one from. Currently out of stock, but will inform me once they are back in....

Sara, I am in the middle of the book, "Gingko" which you suggested above and cannot put it down! (Maybe the GardenWeb should start a botanical/horticultural book of the month club. LOL)

A question occurs to me and I don't remember it being addressed in the book up to this point. 'Gingko biloba', as the name suggests, describes how leaves are commonly divided into two distinct lobes in most cases. But I see there is a LOT of variation in this respect and some leaves are divided, some not (apparently on the same tree). Will go out later to assess my own specimen (right now chillin' in the shade as it's been HOT, HOT, HOT here). Curiously, in the book, Crane describes earlier species of Ginkgo (now extinct) that had MUCH more prominently lobed leaves than the modern, surviving, relic species. So, I guess my question is..., why all the variation of leaf design within the 'modern' Gingko biloba? Do other trees show such variation within the same species or even on the very same tree? My thinking is that the more deeply lobed leaves are more wind resistant than a non-lobed leaf structure, but just speculating.

P.S., For all those who feel protected from the supposed stench of the female fruit, Crane's book documents supposedly MALE trees that apparently crossed gender barriers and went on to produce female fruit (known as "leaky males"; they are much more common apparently than "leaky females"..., as in terms of biological survival, you only need a few (pollen-abundant) males around to fertilize the female who carries the all-important seed to the next generation.

I'm not sure about the lobe issues...I seem to remember (maybe from this book?) that the leaves that are produced directly from the trunk differ from the leaves that are produced on the branches (and this is certainly true of some of the itty-bitty leaved cultivars like 'Chase Manhattan', which will sometimes have almost full-sized leaves on the trunk). Certainly there are other trees with irregular loving - sassafras comes immediately to mind. I defer to any dendrologists in the audience!

Glad you like the book - it is one of my favorites. Peter Crane spoke at an event at Quarryhill Botanical Garden and I was able to tell him how much I liked it. It is marvelous to have someone of his abilities and knowledge write about such a remarkable tree.

ps if you haven't read 'The Wild Trees', that is another good one. Very different - it's about Sequoia - and as much about the people as the trees, and is quite a page turner!

Oh the Sequoia..., yet another of my obsessions! In my climate the Dawn Red (Metasequoia) rules!.., too much Winter cold for the Coast Redwood and too da/n hot and humid the rest of the year for the 'Big Tree Sequoia'. My gymnosperm collection is limited to..., Dawn Reds, Gingko, Cephalotaxus (Japanese Plum Yew), Eastern Hemlocks, Taxodium (Bald Cypress), Podocarpus, and potted cycads.

Cedars ought to do ok, no? I saw huge C. atlanta 'Glauca Pendular' at Grounds for Sculpture in NJ last year.

subtropix, I have 2 bayberries (myrica) that have swapped sexes over the yrs.

"My gymnosperm collection is limited to..., Dawn Reds, Gingko, Cephalotaxus (Japanese Plum Yew), Eastern Hemlocks, Taxodium (Bald Cypress), Podocarpus, and potted cycads." I forgot to include my Atlas Cedar. Sara, I saw a structure build by a planting of six 'Glauca Pendular'. You could have had a wedding party under its canopy! Cedars are MASSIVE trees. I have seen them planted on large estates, majestic is the only word that comes to mind. On to the Ginkgo...

Well, the Gingko that I planted nine years ago must be about 20 feet tall. It used to be the dwarf in a island of Eastern Hemlocks but now is beginning to tower over them, which is probably a good thing as I think that will appreciate some shading. It is the cultivar 'Autumn Gold' and supposedly male..., for what that is worth. Supposedly, they don't express their gender until about 25 years of age. I recently purchased another one for container life (but will not make it into a bonsai). Oh, and decided to experiment and see what they are like to grow from seed, so in my spare time, I will now also be tending to 50 ginkgo seedlings. Gifts to neighbors to expand the modern range of the Ginkgo? LOL.