Alternative Long-Term Care Insurance
10 years ago
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Does anyone have long term care insurance?
Comments (8)I got it a couple years ago - I'm 54 now. It was offered through Prudential with an open enrollment through my employer. Employer does not pay for it but I took advantage of the open enrollment as I don't know that I'd qualify otherwise. It's a decent plan though not over the top - currently about $900 per year. Both DH and I did a lot to help our parents in their later years and since we have no kids there will be none of that if we live to be old. We'll be paying for help. DH's mother was in a nursing home for 11 years after suffering several mini strokes and his grandmother was in for 20 years after suffering a massive stroke. My grandmother was also in for many years. I hope I never end up there but if I do I'd like to somehow be able to pay for it myself and not end up being covered by taxpayers. My FIL paid for MIL - had LTC insurance for the first few years then self funded. I admired their ability to do that and would hope to be able to do the same....See MoreLong-Term Care Insurance
Comments (18)I looked into it for my parents twice, but the first time my mother's financial advisor convinced her that it was not worth the money, and because of that she didn't take me seriously the second time. The second time I looked into a program open to federal employees and their relatives, and it looked like the coverage was good (but the premium for my mom would have been $400 a month). Premiums increased substantially with age, so I suspect the key is figuring out a good age at which to sign up (not so young that you're paying premiums for such a long time that it cancels out the benefit, but not so old that premiums are beyond reach). I wish that my mom hadn't listened to her financial advisor, and that she'd been open to a LTC policy, because I know that I am the one who would end up filing the financial gap if one or both of them needed long term care at a level and length of time that would deplete their savings and investments. For the peace of mind, it would have been worth the high premiums, which I offered to pay myself. At her current age, 69, I doubt she'd qualify for anything that we could afford, and my dad wouldn't qualify at all because he has cancer. A LTC policy for my parents would ease my mind because I know how illnesses that require full time care over a long time period can eviscerate savings. My grandfather had alzheimers for 15 years, and spent the last 10 of them in an assisted living facility. My grandmother kept him at home as long as possible (longer than made sense, to be perfectly frank), but the reality is, given his strength, his diminished mental capacity, and later health complications, he needed the kind of care that only a LTC facility or a full time live-in nurse could provide. This was in the 80s and 90s but it cost thousands a month. Despite being hardworking, a saver, living a frugal lifestyle (to the point of growing their own produce in the summer and freezing and canning it for winter), and having a pension, paying for care for that many years took all of my grandmother's retirement savings. So once the money, inevitably, ran out, they had to go on medicaid and my mom helped with living expenses. I am very worried about facing a similar situation with my parents, particularly since costs are higher now, and I live in an area with an extremely high cost of living. Just think about stories you read about people who have a major illness with medical costs that cause bankruptcy, then multiply that financial impact across multiple years. Planning for an emergency, or even setting aside money for a comfortable retirement, is not going to cover full time care for years. As I understand the costs, it would be like sending a child to an elite private college --- and few people can afford that for more than 4 years even if they have been putting money aside since the child's infancy. Paying that annually, indefinitely, can make a mockery of even the best laid financial plans. The odds are that most people will not need that kind of care, but if you do the financial costs are devastating....See MoreLong Term Care Insurance in 2011
Comments (7)We purchased LTC insurance (separate policies) in our late 40's. Our program is sponsored by the state pension fund, so the carrier cannot leave the business until the pension managers find a replacement carrier. Class-wide premium increases are allowed, as they are on every policy and type of insurance. You always have a risk with individual insurance. Many homeowners have had whopping price increases and declination of new coverage whenever there's a major catastrophe. That's the downside of a public, competitive marketplace. LTC is no different. All I would say is, don't limit yourself to just your employer's offerings. There are several groups that specialize in LTC insurance, so Google and contact them if you're really interested. Yes, you may get stuck on a few mailing or call lists, but those aren't a big deal and easy to remove yourself from, or just toss the envelopes. Don't let it stop you. Genworth is good, I don't know anything about MedAmerica, and Northwestern Mutual is also a very solid company who has publicly announced they intend to remain in the LTC marketplace. Always contact your State Insurance Dept. - often the info is on the web - to look at the number of complaints a company has had to report. Also remember that it's worth investing WHO the company actually is - Conseco, one of the very worst LTC insurers ever, wrote LTC policies under six different subsidiaries. The Net can be your best friend, if you are willing to take the time to track info down to the source. Don't expect someone else to do all the work for you, and any time you talk to an agent, always rely on what is WRITTEN, not what you think someone said or implied. Verbal and phone assurances are worth the paper they are written on, and no more. Why did we buy this complex, risky product? Because our calculations determined that the extended disability of one spouse would quickly use up the assets of the survivor. And under no scenario would our assets cover BOTH of us being disabled and needing home health care, for longer than a year's time. When life expectancy continues to increase, and the ability of the medical profession to keep you alive but with a lousy quality of life also continues to progress, it was not a hard decision to buy sooner rather than later. We budgeted for price increases. If you understand how insurance actuarial stats work, it was clear to me that the Boomers would live longer, thus requiring care of which our current medical system does not cover the cost. The old "my family will take care of me" attitude is inadequate, especially when families are scattered around the globe, many Boomers (like us) chose not to have any children, and the Millennials are having a hard enough time surviving without having elderly Boomers hang around their necks like a 200-lb albatross, looking for charity. For very comprehensive policies - unlimited benefit period, 3 month elimination, 5% compounded inflation benefit, 50% home healthcare (for new policies it's now 100% of benefit), 2 ADL disability definition: Me, example #1: Age 48, female when policy was purchased. Premiums slightly over $1200/yr. Premiums are now $2K/yr, after two class premium increases. I used to pull LTC quotes as part of my job, working in a CFP's office. My best guess is that if I went to apply for a policy now, age 60, overweight and pre-diabetic, an equivalent new policy premium would be approx $3500. DH, example #2: Age 46, high BP under moderate treatment. Premium started at $800/yr, now $1700/yr. At age 50, when the policy was 4 yrs old, DH suffered a serious haemorrhagic stroke. Fortunately he has recovered almost totally. However, no insurer would have written ANY policy on him for at least 5 yrs after the stroke. And they would definitely rate him as Standard, not Preferred, possibly Class 2 or even Class 3 risk, for being (now) age 59, slightly overweight, pre-diabetic, previous stroke, family history of heart attacks and diabetes (every male in his family died of cardiac failure before age 70). My best guess is that his premium for an equivalent policy would now be in the $5K to $7K annual range. So was buying LTC insurance 11 yrs ago a smart decision? Yes, for us it was. The total of all premiums we have paid are still less than the cost for six months for ONE of us in a nicer licensed care facility. You might find the link below useful. I like SmartMoney, which is the magazine arm of the same holding company as the Wall St. Journal. Here is a link that might be useful: SmartMoney LTC calculators...See MoreLong term care insurance?
Comments (31)chisue, insurance companies don't make money strictly off policy premiums. AIG's current headline news is a perfect example of this. When I worked at CIGNA (formerly Connecticut General, then they bought INA and changed their name), each of their 5 separate divisions was given an annual profit margin target to hit. This was called a "zero margin plus xx%". Note this was not a sales number, it was a "quick and dirty" percentage of how much revenue minus division expenses they made annually. My boss (one of the regional VPs with a shot at the division presidency) got interested in exactly where this target number came from. He learned that what CIGNA called "zero margin" was actually a base 15% profit margin. CIGNA could earn 15% off its money, through investments and such things as real estate development (for instance they bankrolled Foster City, a landfill development in the SF Bay Area that was considered risky at the time, but is now a desirable mixed-use suburb, selling it after a few years for a hefty profit), without ever writing another insurance policy. Therefore, their divisions had to earn OVER that 15% profit margin, to be worth expending corporate funds for. This is why insurance companies go in and out of market niches - they tend to keep a fairly conservative eye on what their profit margins are on each line of business. When people are discussing the stock market, the majority of money in it is institutional. Insurance companies are a very large part of that. They are even better than banks at leveraging their money. We used to make jokes about actuaries, but insurance companies realistically suvive on the number-crunching abilities of their actuaries. Like developers in a software company, they are what actually drives the financial corporate engines....See More- 10 years ago
- 10 years ago
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