The leaves aren't, but it's soft and bends and breaks very easily. Here is the end of one my husband brome off. Seems strangely green.

Excuse my grammar and spelling. I meant to type in the leaves aren't tiny. My previous phone corrected everything for me. The newer, better version doesn't or I just need to tell it to somehow.

I'm sorry, I guess I was just hoping that it might be confined to one cane. The sooner the awful deed is done the better.

The thing thats bothering me is that it came back looking fine? Were the buds normal? Did you see normal flowers? If so the rose is not completely infected yet. More idea's coming if the answer is yes to these questions.

oh. Patty,I thought you were going to look at it and say it looks pretty healthy:( I guess I'm in denial. I drove an hour to Orion rose farm 9 years ago in search of Cardinal Richelieu. I got a mislabeled CR, and this Quadra. I was one of their last customers. The realtor was there when we were. My children were little then and a storm was coming. My youngest was 2 then; he doesn't remember, but my older two say they will never forget that place. I guess I'm going to dig up Quadra now, go have a glass of wine and cry. Oh, and please help me to save my other roses.

Thanks,

Julie

ok. just saw these last posts I am confused. I will hold off on the awful deed and glass of wine and tears. I will go take more pic.s,

Julie, I am no expert with regard to RRD. I am learning about it myself having found a strange growth from one of my rose today. I am still learning about identifying growths that look abnormal, unusual, and unexpected.

I went to lift this cane, and it immediately broke. Would a lot of recent rain make the canes like this?

It does not look like either herbicide damage nor rose rosette virus to me. A lot of my roses looked like that this spring.

Henry, Are they rubbery and break really easily?

The number of basals I've broken on Quadra and Capt. Samuel Holland because I've tried to train them defies description. At this point I don't touch them.

Hi Julie, I'm in the same position as Karen, I am no expert in RRD, but I am a long time roses grower. I am not sure why you don't think that this is normal new growth.

I'm going to cry now to because it is infected. I was so hoping that maybe it was a new infection on just one cane. It is at that point that reacting quickly it is possible to save them. If it were me I would cut it to the ground. That way you will eliminate any sick growth and mites that might be on there. Then wait to see what grows back. If the virus is in the roots any new growth will be very ugly. In this case your sweet rose would have died anyway. I'm so sorry. In the slim chance the virus is not in the roots yet you will be saving your rose by cutting it down.

This is why I no longer grow climbing roses. It hurts to put so much time and energy not to mention getting attached to them. I've lost many a rose to rrd. But that is rare now that I stick to smaller roses. I be back in a moment.

Karen I will explain the top photo in a moment.

Well, in the 1st pic, you can see there's strange fin like growth not present anywhere else. In addition, there are some fat stems that are rubbery and break really easily, Not all of the stems are rubbery, so it is confusing. Also, is it normal for a stem to be soft and solid green like a succulent? I want nothing more than for this rose to be okay, but something doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. I will wait for more replies. I hope it's just normal for Quadra.

Patty, didn't see your last reply before mine. Would love to hear more.

Several things that are wrong for the growth in the original pictures:

Leaf spacing. At the base of canes, in the lowest inch, you will see lots of leaf breaks, BUT as you go up canes, the leaves spread out. The internodal distances of the leaves on both these stems is a lot less than two inches, and that isn't the way HT leaves space out in normal growth.

Then look at the stipules at the base of the leaves. I see at least several different shapes. Some variation is normal within a bush, but I see one that looks like a bass violin, upper left, stipules that go well over half way up to the first compound leaf breaks, and some that are very simple, thin and not attached all the way up the leaf rachis.

The stem on the right, at the end has four breaks into new stems. This shouldn't happen until the first terminal bud has its petal formed and its sepals bending back if not later than that. This growth just isn't happening in the order that healthy roses do things. This stem doesn't even have a terminal bud yet.

Look at the bottom of the picture and compare leaf margins ...some are small and more or less regular in their tooth pattern. On the left, the margins are growing/have grown as if there was no specific pattern that they were following, just whatever they felt like.

Someone said new growth looks this way....only if you look at overall color and not specific growth.

With Rose Rosette, it helps if you look at your roses beyond the blooms and see what happens and when it happens. the order of bloom development is a major key that something goes wrong.

Okay now I'm not feeling so much like an odd woman out. You guys are actually not believing Ann. One of the nations top experts on rose rosette. Talk about a thankless job. Ann you must truly be a great diplomat not to have thrown in the towel decades ago. The top photo is classic rrd. Narrowing leaves, extremely feathered leaves, the petioles have changed, the top most leaves nearly have thorns on the leaf itself, growth is beginning to twist. Rrd/rrv does not always present the way we expect it too. No rrd is not the only cause of breakage in Quadra. But the excessive fast growth seen in rrd does not give canes a chance to harden up. There for they are snapping off easier than what is normal. I'll be back hubby needs help.

Julie, Everything that you are describing can be normal healthy tender rose growth. Here is a link for the best description I have seen for Rosette virus: Rose Rosette Disease - OSU Fact Sheets - Oklahoma State University .

Sorry wrote before I saw Ann's explanation.

The following was asked: "Henry, Are they rubbery and break really easily?"

H. Kuska reply. I did not check them. I would expect new growth to be less sturdy than old growth.

I have to say I'm still sick to my stomach over this. I'm glad thatAnn responded to the last photo posted. I was enlarge it as much as possible trying to convince myself that it was going to be fine. It's not and the reason for not keeping her around is the it puts all of your other rose at risk.

The only chance we have to save a rose from rrd is to see it as soon as it starts to grow after becoming infected. That instinct that says thats odd when you see your rose. I've seen a rose from the house that had me grabbing shoes and heading straight out the door. Those times that stop you in your tracks have all been rrd for me. In order to save the rose you can post a photo if you wish for confirmation. Then grab a bag and head straight for the rose and get that cane off. Before it can travel thru the rose and becomes systemic. I probably average 1 infection a year. Way down from what it use to be.

Right or wrong I sort of believe that the farmers spraying round up here has eliminated a few infected multifloras. Sad to think that such a thing is actually helping me.

So I mentioned big roses up above and that I prefer not to grow them anymore. This is because it becomes to hard too see everything that is there. It increases the chance that I'll miss seeing rrd right away. That said what was I thinking when I purchased Above and Beyond last year. Most likely I will remove it in the next few years or this year. When I get over having spent the money to buy it or it starts getting really big. All of our roses depend on us to learn and react quickly to what we see. The first time is the worst but it does get easier and we can grow roses.

Thank you so much Ann and Patty for taking the time out to explain the subtle differences between abnormal and normal rose growths in the above pics that I as a novice cannot see. You have developed a natural ability or instinct to see something wrong or abnormal right away even before the abnormalities manifest themselves. Again thanks for educating us on RRD.

I am so sorry Julie that your rose is infected with RRD. When you posted the pics, I guess you probably had a gut feeling that something was wrong. I hope that you get this in time so that it does not have the chance to infect other roses in your garden. Wish you the best of luck, Julie.

I think the lesson here is if you see something weird, even in the fall, take it out. I was fortunate enough to see something on My Wild Irish Rose last fall and Ann was giving a talk at the Greater Atlanta Rose Society. I brought in the cane and she diagnosed it as RRD. I had already cut the cane at the base (the weird growth was about 3 feet up). Knock on wood, so far, it looks ok. I am cutting it way back because we are getting our house painted, but I haven't seen anymore aberrant growth.

My husband and I just went out to cut out Quadra, and it looks healthy. I only know how to put one photo per post sorry. I need to know if the rubberiness of this is because it is new growth. My husband thinks it is. I do think what I cut off and showed in the 1st picture yesterday was very strange and maybe I cut it all off. I also have no idea where it could have come from. I've never seen multiflora roses around here, and I don't believe any of my other roses have it. Here is a photo of a rubbery cane that broke off. Could it be new growth?

This growth looks a bit strange, but it was wrapped up in a tomato cage.

Julie, can you remove the leaves at the bottom of that cane. Were is that growing from? Is that a cut cane down in there? I can say that the last branch you were holding up yesterday is infected with rrd and the cane has a bad look to it.

The only safe suggestion is to cut the plant to the ground and wait to see what grows back. Then you will now for sure without endangering your other roses.

That first picture looked bad. These are showing new growth that is turning green at nearly expected times. Watch these canes for the beginnings of flower buds.

You know the way HTs bloom. First the apical bud. Then leaf axils down the cane start putting out stems with buds.
On roses (HTs) there is an order of bloom that is one of the things that the roses were bred for.

That this rose is at a corner is a possible clue to why a disease vectoring mite could have dropped there. At edges and corners, wind speeds change fast and there is a tendency to drop snow around corners in winter just past where the wind speeds up slightly. That corner may have led to almost quiet air and mite drop.

Otherwise, it looks healthy

Thank you,

Julie

On the last cane being held everything I can see looks good. In where the heavy growth is are any leaves showing feathered edges. Are any leaves beginning to look skinny? Where stem are coming from the main cane are any fatter than the cane that they grew from?

It's kind of a beastly shrub/climber. I don't think any of the stems coming off main canea are bigger. It's so thorny. It's hard to get in and get a good picture.

Thank you,

Julie

Good luck with it Julie.

Is there anywhere to send specimens for testing? If so, does anyone know the approximate cost? Seems like it might be worth it in some cases. Bummer to lose good roses, sorry Julie if that's the case.

Thank you Ann and Patty and all,

I will take your advice to watch it closely, and remove anything strange. Your e-book is very helpful, Ann. I have a new appreciation for everyone dealing with this horrible issue. I've been considering what I would do if all my roses got it. Not a pleasant thought for sure.

Thank you,

Julie

Thanks Dingo,

Unfortunately, I threw out the strange growth after I took the pictures. If I find any more, I think I will send it to the U of M.

Julie

.A PCR test costs $35 at the University of Oklahoma. I don't know if the test works on dead or dying stems.

I do know that samples I sent to the University of Arkansas (at their request) for some of the work that was done to define the RRv virus required both a plant shipment tag (official government to allow shipment across state lines) as well as shipping the material which I had frozen solid and kept under refrigeration in our freezer until I could ship them with dry ice in a cooler to Arkansas. The keep-them-frozen part was important. (Shipping was expensive as only one specific type of FedEx will accept dry ice shipments.)

Several places are working on ELISA tests but none (that I've heard of) have succeeded. Agdia has/had a good website describing what ELISA tests do.

One thing about reading about plant diseases. It's depressing.

Second thing about reading about plant diseases. You will start to wonder if there will be any food crops left unaffected in another century.

And you will see diseases in plants where the plants are chugging along, but diseased.

Agdia's Plant Pathogen tests.

This is the latest scientific paper that I am aware of for rose rosette virus testing (pcr is normally considered more sensitive than ELISA).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166093415300719

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Ann reported on the progress of developing an ELISA test. In general ELISA tests are consider cheaper than PCR tests (but less sensitive).

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This is an earlier (2013) report of PCR testing progress (the bold type was added by me):

"In 2011, a research group from the University of Arkansas reported the detection of a new virus, specifically an Emaravirus (negative strand RNA virus), in symptomatic roses. They were able to detect this virus in 84 out of 84 symptomatic plants that were tested (Laney et al, 2011). This study also resulted in a genetic (PCR) test to detect the virus. However, the procedure can be tedious. Several diagnostic clinics, including the Texas Plant Disease Diagnostic Lab, are currently testing and validating a modified detection method to ensure consistent detection success and ease of use. The Oklahoma Plant Disease and Insect Lab and the Texas Plant Disease Diagnostic Lab are two NPDN-affiliated labs that have capabilities to test for RRV using PCR methods."

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I do not know how this Florida PCR test compares pricewise to the earlier used PCR test but their description seems to indicate (to me) that it will be cheaper.

Thank you, Henry. Being cheaper, will definitely encourage more people to consider having their roses tested. Sadly, I imagine most people are completely unaware of the disease, and a lot of the people that happen to purchase roses around here, would probably just grow something else if they did know.

Thanks,

Julie

Thank you Ann and Henry for the information. I'm sort of surprised testing isn't more widely and readily available.

Fifteen or so years ago when RRD came into my life, I contacted Agdia to see if there were tests. I got a nice letter back saying that they'd never heard of RRD, that they'd be interested in offering a test but first they'd need concentrated material to make an ELISA test.

At that time, the sole positive test was to graft a sick bud onto healthy multiflora and if the multiflora got sick it was a confirmation of RRD. Except the bud grafting (according to Jim Amrine who did this a lot) only took sometimes and that in the spring.
Then there was the identification of vector mites on a bush. Except there are two Phyllocoptes species that live on roses and only one is the vector. 400x microscope and a phase system lighting to differentiate the two mites.

Dingo, you do know that fifteen years ago all the literature (juried papers as well as what came out of state and federal ag departments) said that RRD was a good thing that would be a wonderful bioherbicide to kill multiflora and it seldom affected cultivated roses?

Hi Ann, yes I had read that it was thought to be a good thing initially. Honestly I have not done very much reading and research on it, but it seems I really need to as it's becoming more prevalent. It would be great if they developed a "snap test" that gardeners could use at home so positive cases could be easily identified and removed, similar to the hosta virus test that's available.

So I went and read about the Hosta virus and it is an ELISA test. It's not the same family of viruses, but the multiple possible disease vectors is depressing (from mammalian to insect to separating forks.)

Roses are so much more complicated and the complexity of symptoms that change from cultivar to cultivar and also change over time on the same bush until it dies.

Also Hostas are 'juicier' so testing that part of a plant would be easier than a home gardener extracting enough fluid from a rose cane to do a swipe sort of action....

A hosta link

My husband contacted the Plant Disease Clinic @ the U of M. The test is $100.00, and as you stated, Ann, the options are to dig up the whole plant or pack a sample in dry ice. There has only been one confirmed case of RRD in MN, and that was on a potted plant no where near here. However, I imagine, with lack of knowledge of the disease and the cost of the test, there are probably many more cases. They asked my husband to send a photo. They may wish to do a test for free. Julie

if you have a bush suspect for RRD, or any other disease for that matter, and you cut out canes, what should you use to clean your tools afterward before use on another bush?

What should you use?

You may not know that that is a loaded question. I asked a plant pathologist what to use to kill viruses in phloem. He asked four virologists and they had two different answers. Three said a solution of water and bleach, the fourth said the legal thing which is bleach is not an approved chemical for killing viruses.

What I have done when creeping black crud (probably a bacteria and I had spread it with my secateurs) had to be removed. Cut below the crud. Wipe secateurs with conc. bleach. Wipe them dry. Cut again another half inch down. Wipe with bleach, wipe blades dry. Let blades heat in sun for ten minutes each side. Come back and cut again. And that stopped that problem. (And I do have two sets of secateurs.)

Rose Rosette: If we see it on just one cane, I cut as low on the cane as possible. Then leave the secateurs out to sun scald them. From what I've seen RRD doesn't move down a cane all that fast. there are many many sieve cells it has to pass through.

I think there are some major, unstudied differences in speed of transmission within canes of different classes of roses.

Thanks, I had been using those Clorox wipes to disinfect between different groups of roses but I'm new to roses and completely paranoid about RRD so I wasn't sure I was doing what was right.

I have read that rrd does not spread easily with pruners. I still clean them well with something that will kill a virus. Bleach followed by soapy water then I use the Lysol that comes in the little brown bottle. Then I dry them well and let them sit for a day. It's overkill I know but I don't care.

The hard one is hosta virus x which studies have shown is not killed even with bleach. It also will persist in the soil. I really love my hosta so have not purchased any since the first announcement of the disease.

In a very small way rrd has given us a little break as we can replant and disinfect successfully.

Oh yes I forgot that I let them sit in the sun.

I had no knowledge of RRD being in Mn. Forgive my novice question Ann, but is Quadra considered a HT?

Kelly here's a link to HMF for Quadra, classed as a Hybrid Kordesii, Shrub. I knew it was a climber lol but not it's specific description :)

Quadra