How far apart are they. I don't doubt that S&S could crowd out other hostas. Hickory trees (walnuts, pecans and others as well) give of juglon that keep the area weed free with hostas seemingly immune. I have never heard of any hosta doing this. I doubt it.

S&S is fairly tall and I would suspect it may be shading out the competition and even elbowing out its neighbors even though T Rex and Blue Mammoth should put up a good fight. I'm not at all surprised Fire and Ice would lose out.

Jon

Never heard of anything like that before. It doesn't seem to affect your Lemon Lime. What exactly happens to the ones you plant closer and have lost? Do they dry up? Rot? Get doggie pee? Or disappear overnight? OBTW, what is under all that soil... how does it drain? I don't see any weep holes. Can you plant some sacrificial annual there and see if IT dies too?

-Babka

Babka -

No weep holes ... the raised bed soil is on top of soil. No weep holes needed. This information was reaffirmed when the raised bed to the EAST of it was dug into for other reasons relating to water. IF one raised bed is designed that way all 10 others ought to be designed similarly, That information is also consistent to what I was told when I first moved into the building 24 years ago by the Garden Committee Chairperson at that time.

in most cases in the past I actually didn't check for the previous years plants ... having said that as the years went on the more I checked before putting the next plant in. Some years they were not there; which would be indicative of crown rot. LAST years (2014/2015) Blue Mammoth left rhizomes with what should have been spikes, although no green spikes were seen. Only white bumps. This would be indicative of freeze out. BUT 6 years of no success with Blue Mammoth - I find that irregular as Blue Mammoth is considered to be 'easy' to grow.

The Fire and Ice (2015/2016) there was nothing left.

The last attempt at T-Rex (2014/2015) also had rhizomes. white bumps, but nothing green showing. I think I've tried that also the eight years with varying degrees of success - I think nothing more than being planted, surviving, and then not surviving the second winter.

Empress Wu (2015/2016) seems to be having the same fight as T-Rex had.

Note: There was nearly 100% success in the garden from last year. Chartreuse Wiggles (planted in 2014) and Tortifrons
(planted in 2015) have not been seen from last year. They were in the
front half of the garden. There were no rhizomes left from last years
seven Tortifrons planted when I put in Corkscrew this last week. I have not checked on Chartreuse Wiggles yet. i can chalk these two losses to winter as plants have grown in their locations previous years.

Very observant of you to note that the Lemon Lime is not being effected. This adds to the mystery,

Peter Kelley - St, Paul MN USA

Babka has a good question, which you answered before I posted How about light conditions? S&S could tolerate more sun than T-Rex or Blue Mammoth. Any crispy edges?

Jon

Does it look like someone is helping themselves to your plants? I thought someone had picked all of my ripe peaches and it turned out to be squirrels-I found the pits buried in potted plants.

Interesting. I have had failure of two plants that I planted in front of S&S. trehane veronica, which shrunk each year until practically nothing is left, Its planted about 2.5 feet away. And ranunculus buttered popcorn which just never established itself. I blamed the pm sunshine. I moved mine once, after it had reached 4 ft diameter, and found the roots to be shallower than expected, mostly 8-12" deep. I wonder if its stealing water and nutrients. However Lemon lime is rhizomaitous like a ground cover, which would contradict my observations.

Crown rot rots, but doesn't make the plant disappear. You just get a soft brown crown and mush underneath. The plant doesn't totally disappear. Those "white bumps" you refer to are eyes (dormant buds) that will become shoots (what you call spikes). All hostas don't come out of dormancy at the same time. I have a span of a month between the first guys up and the last guys up. (not counting Clifford's Stingray which doesn't play by anyone's rules and shows up a couple months later!).

Your soil look beautiful and loose. Could planting depth be contributing to your problems? Do they sink after that first year? Your 8 year old S&S is not exactly large at 24", but I guess that depends on what you started with. Mine can take that long to get mature leaves, but we don't freeze here and dormancy really helps with vigor. Your whole situation is so strange, and requires a lot of figgering out what the #$$% is going on.

Don't give up. There has to be an answer.

-Babka

Jon - No crispy edges on either T-Rex or Blue Mammoth. At least not that I remember, AS the years have gone by and much to my amazement the near by trees keep sending out more and more leaves. A this time there are moments in the afternoon where there is nearly no sun.

Frankielynniise - I had to confront the Management Company here finally because the first and very promising spike on Empress Wu suddenly VANISHED and what was left was a slight indentation as to where it had been. What I equated to someone slicing the spike BELOW the surface with a pocket knife. Ihad told them previous that I felt that the plant was suffering (at that time) presumably from a critter under the garden. The crttter became unconfirmed as the burrow that I thought I had seen last fall during the planting of Fire and Ice had 100% disappeared. Nature made a horrid fool out of me in front of BOTH the management company AND the exterminator.

Previous to this post I was so agitated that I was nearly in a state of depression.

Beverlymnz4 - I’ve taken note of your comments. Hard to respond at this point

Babka NorCal 9b - I had not been aware that Crown Rot could still leave a vestiges of a survivable plant. I had been told previously that crown rot would take any living part of the plant after it took hold of the plant. Thank you for correcting my knowledge about Crown Rot.

I do understand that different hosta come up at different times of the spring; I generally give my plants until June to spike; and that the ‘bumps are dormant buds. AT that time I replanted the buds to give them a chance to grow (they never did).

As for plants sinking … .The ground seems to be pretty solid; so I would doubt that they would sink, although I suppose it is possible (thinks hard). I’ve planted hosta for years and now often check the crown line of the plant before putting it into the soil to insure that the line is slightly below the surface of the surrounding soil + not more than an inch. This season has been an horrid season form my smaller hosta [Church Mouse, Holy Mouse Ears, Frosted Mouse Ears, and Little Sunspot in particular] have all surfaced to raise the crown line to not more than 1/2 inch ABOVE the soil. At first I was concerned, but since then they have all spiked, leafed, and currently looking O.K. Never seen this in hosta before.

Peter Kelley - St Paul, MN USA

I had my Sum & Substance planted right next to another hosta for years...finally got to dividing both of them last year. I didn't notice that the other hosta suffered at all.

I'm curious why you would plant large hostas (S&S, Empress Wu...) that could potentially outgrow that space when mature...what you have there looks fantastic, so don't take my comment in a negative way.

Donna_in_Sask - I've waited for years for someone to ask me that very question! The answer is simple, or at least relatively simple. I am a non-driver. The only way I'm gonna to see some of those fabulously HUGE leaves is to grow the plant myself!

Yes, after 6 years of having Sum and Substance I've yet to see that 18 x 12 inch leaf. [optimist] It's getting close to letting me see one! The same is true with Empress Wu I'ld just like to see one of those 28 x 24 inch leaves. Was hoping for the same for T-Rex and Blue Mammoth as well.

Between all three of those: Empress Wu, T-Rex, and Blue Mammoth has been Sum and Substance being the same factor. A GREAT Vulcan and a GREAT Detective both once said, "if you remove all the other factors that don't fit, what ever you have left, regardless of how extream it might be, must be the logical deduction. Sum and Substance is the last factor I have to consider in this mystery; and hence this question has evolved. In the process maybe I learn that something new about that I need to know along the way.
Peter Kelley - St. Paul, MN USA

Here's my S&S, Sage to the left, Blue Angel to the right. The picture below shows it engulfing Blue Angel, if you can imagine any hosta stronger than Blue Angel. BA will be moved this coming spring. and S&S leaves are the size of a basketball

Poor BA is squashed

Mstrbpk- Do you have a photo of what the planter looks like now? Who made it who didn't survive???????

-Babka

Have you considered that there is something in the soil or leeching in from the surrounding rock or concrete? I think Babka is on to something. I have never seen a Sum and Substance that is this small after 8 years. THis suggests to me that it, too, is struggling.

Do you ever topdress with compost or manure? Could it be a general lack of nutrients?