Thanks so much to everyone for your comments. I did manage to closely look at the plant itself in good light today (as opposed to looking at it in the semi-dark or looking at photos that weren't very good). It's much better to look at the rose than to try to tell anything from a picture; the larger older leaves actually get in the way of seeing many of the new rosettes on the rose in photos. I've found rosettes coming out in multiple places with many tiny, slightly more-pointed leaves that are yellowing--a veritable rosette of leaves--and those multiple places with rosettes have leaf stipules that are very much larger than they ought to be. At least one of the enlarged stipules is surprisingly long, longer than the leaflets it adjoins. The degree of thorniness was suggestive but not conclusive, though where the worst problem cane starts close to the ground, it grows larger than the cane coming from the ground that it is joined to. On this particular cane, many of the thorns are orange or an orange shade of beige, though the thorns on the rest of the plant aren't orange. It appears that the thorniness is in the stage of gradually spreading now on the cane coming from the ground that the thorny cane grows out of. On the other side of the plant, I see a good bit of thorniness too from canes coming up from the ground, as well as some rosettes and some tiny, tiny leaves, including some that are yellowing and more pointed than other older leaves on the plant. This makes rose #6 out of the original 13 roses we started with last year--not a good percentage for the chances of keeping this disease confined. I really, really wish that I'd taken out the rose, Cornelia, showing the first problems when I first suspected the disease last fall. To repeat, those initial symptoms in Cornelia were: a sudden increase in thorniness, making a very low thorned plant into something very thorny on certain canes, and including many thorns that were oddly colored black. The one thing I'd especially want to emphasize (which a careful reading of Ann Peck's book will also disclose): that different varieties do not necessarily all react in the same ways to this disease, especially at the earliest first symptoms. So, for example, not seeing black thorns this time on these other roses gives me no reassurance at all. (And in fact, by the time I was seeing full-blown red witches' brooms with red-streaked canes on Cornelia this spring, the color of the many extra thorns was no longer black.) A few questions I wish I knew the answer to: Does anyone know for sure whether Neem oil or something like PAM spray will discourage the particular kind of mite that spreads this virus? I know the problem in the mites' ability to be wedged so deep somewhere that whatever you spray can't reach them, but I was thinking that if spraying takes place every few days that the mites would be out in the open eventually and get whacked. Any ideas about pyrethrin using it the same way? Or soap sprays used frequently? What about pyrethrin dust for controlling the mites remaining in the ground that might live off of whatever remains of the rose's roots? I am also thinking of using Wilt-Pruf on the new roses (now sitting on the other side of the house from where the RRD roses were located). Any experience with trying Wilt-Pruf as a mite discourager/protectant? (For sure the smelly spray products used to discourage pests like deer and rabbits do nothing to ward off mites. And for sure beneficial nematodes have no effect in controlling these mites either.) Do the mites usually land on a plant via the wind and almost never end up traversing the ground to get there? If they do traverse the ground too, might something like diatomaceous earth work on those mites doing the walking? Or might they find something like snail bait (Escargo) tasty while they're on the ground? We are organic gardeners here, so something like Avid won't be used. Thanks for any ideas! Best wishes, Mary

fduk, for what it's worth my first try at Julia Child was sum what like yours. I started with three of them. In their third year I could not take any longer and began too dig them up. They did not grow well and defoliated every year from black spot. Mine where own root. I dug up the first two and thru them near the compost pile. Did not have the heart too pitch the last one. So I moved it too the empty lot. There it could do what it wished without bothering me. Yeah, It change from a mouse into a princess.She now showed no disease and has beautiful blooms. I just sighed telling her I suppose if I move you back too the yard you will not look like this. She stayed in the lot for years. I'm reasonably sure the only difference was the amount of sun. She's now back in the yard as a neighbors tree finally grew too large. Another neighbor removed a tree providing a very sunny spot in the yard. Mine will never resemble Diane's beauty or that in San Jose ect. but she is now a beauty in her own right. Finally bought 4 more.

Did you get them? Probably no replies because this is posted under foliage plants.

Phew! thanks to all the great input and the video - I felt more equipped to go for it and I got all but one rose all done. And I'm happy with them. I cut back the Julia, just a little more. Took off a few more thin canes and side canes. Took some branching ends off to a straight line, but basically left it about the same height, maybe a few inches shorter. I went back and looked at Beverly, which had good growth on it but some of the canes I had left were thin, so I took those back and shortened what was left a little. PJPaul really was awful and I had to cut most of it down to the ground and left about 3 stronger canes about 6 inches high. Savannah - had some strong growth on some canes, so I cut those by half and anything that didn't look right I took back to the ground. So, we'll see. I'm trying to find no spray roses. Julia Child has been great for me for years so these three are my next experiment to see how they work out.