I think there are two issues here. One is condescending to older women as "young ladies" which to me is the inverse way of saying "old bag."

The other is recognizing the authority and power of certain older accomplished women who are unlikely to ever be addressed in that way.

Elderly is a very relative term. I feel it's attached to a state rather than a specific age.

I feel a good of this has to do with physical presence and mental acuity. Some people present themselves in ways that do not encourage this type of behavior.

But I don't feel men or women want to be talked down to at any age. I doubt anyone would deal with me in that way but, if they did, I would let them know very clearly that I didn't feel it was appropriate.

I've only heard men use that term to address women. It isn't always used for older women; my father in law used the term when addressing service people (women servers, especially, regardless of age) and it made me cringe. It was used in a way that was too familiar, flirty if you like, not respecting the professionalism of the women waiting on him. He was an ignoramus socially, yet saw himself as a "ladies man". Ugh.

More generally, I think it's just one more way of taking away women's power as unique individuals. In addition to the "young" part, I don't want to be called or referred to as a "lady". I can't imagine any person, man or woman, addressing a man beyond about 14 as "young man." It would never happen to a mature man, regardless of age.

To me, the term 'young lady' was always used when I got in trouble as a kid-so I really have a negative association with it. But I agree-I think it's very disrespectful for a young person to say that to an older woman. I don't like to be ma'am'd either, but I put up with that, because it is respectful.

Perhaps the younger people in your class thought it was being complimentary? I personally don't like backhanded compliments, and that is how 'young lady' seems to me. I also think that how you consider that is indicative of your sense of self-do you see yourself as an equal, as being worthy of respect, or are you comfortable with the 'little lady' type of deferential treatment? My mother would probably love it if a man, of any age, flirted with her and called her young lady-me, I'd want to throw up!

I have been addressed as "miss" a couple of times, It makes me feel stupid,

I think "young lady" is condescending nonsense and I have been known to say kindly but firmly, "do not refer to me that way again."

However, I live in a part of the world where I am called Miss Kswl by an astonishingly wide variety of people. Some of them I wouldn't want calling me by my Christian name and Mrs. Last Name now seems unbearably formal in many situations.

Now in my dotage :-) I am increasingly impatient with nonsense. Yesterday someone called MY cell phone and asked for my husband. I replied that the phone wasn't his, and the caller countered, "oh, are you the wife?" I responded firmly and unkindly, "I can already tell that I have no reason to talk to you " and hung up. No idea who it was----suspect telemarketer----but at this point I really do not care. Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.

I don't think twice if it is coming from someone I know. We used to participate in a social club, and several of the men would use that term. It was part affection, and part truth, as I usually was the youngest person in the room.

I do NOT like it when it comes from a cashier, which seems to happen a good bit. Perhaps when I'm dressed in running clothes, with a ponytail and ball cap, I look younger than my 50+ years. But I do not need to hear it from a 20-something. I am not interested in your assessment of my age. Just say hello and ring up my purchase. I just ignore it and move on.

Maybe one day I'll say "I'm old enough to be your mother. Would you say that to her?"

I can't imagine any person, man or woman, addressing a man beyond about 14 as "young man." It would never happen to a mature man, regardless of age.

Oh yes, they do. A fiftyish friend of mine reports that his doctor (who is in his 20s) calls him this all the time and it depresses him, too.

I just ignore it and move on. Same here. I don't particularly like it, but it's not something I give a great deal of thought to.

Being called a young lady, ma'am, miss, old lady, sweetie, dear, etc. is small stuff. As they say, don't sweat the small stuff.

If someone called me a bi*#ch, they would get my attention.

I've never said anything about being addressed by" m'am", "miss", "hon" etc.

But, I have to say, the time is coming when another person addresses me as "young lady", because there's no other way to see it as other than patronizing.

I think it is condescending and disrespectful. Do they really think I'm so frivolous and silly that I'm flattered?

But other than an irritated glance over my reading specs, I don't sweat it. :-)

Here again, it's one of context...it can be insulting or thoughtless or funny or lighthearted.

I was just telling my DH last week that it really riles me to have someone address me in such a patronizing way. A withering look can do wonders in a situation like that.

When my oldest DD and DSIL got married some of his family members were so intimidated by me. I didn't understand why but DSIL said because I was so competent and a strong woman (old ironsides! Hah!). So it is a double slap to be condescended to.

My DGF did not suffer fools easily and I am finding that I have a huge dose of my GF in me. In the past I have always been pleasant even when someone pmo but my patience with fools has waned to the point that I can get quite snarly and honestly don't feel the need to be pleasant when someone is being an _ss.

Annie Deighnaugh

Here again, it's one of context...it can be insulting or thoughtless or funny or lighthearted.

******

That's why I tend not to say anything. If someone's coming from a good place, and in no way meaning to offend, I have a hard time saying, "seriously?!".

I'm a bit too young to be young-lady'ed by anyone younger than me, although I do get ma'amed. In my area there are a lot of "sweeties" "dears" and "honeys" used by wait staff and cashiers. it really drives some people up the wall but I don't mind it as I can tell it's just friendliness.

Young lady would bother me a bit more because the implication is...condescending. It's not something I do with my older female friends and relatives and now I DEFINITELY never will. I also try to avoid ageist language in my every day life (e.g. try not to say things like "that outfit makes you look ten years younger!" or "honey you don't look a day over 30").

Well, I think I have a good understanding of the intent, most of the time. If I'm not sure, I will give the benefit of doubt. But in the context that Terricks asked about? Nope. I'm not going to get all giggly and forget that my order is wrong. I'm going to be irritated and subtly convey it.

robo- I don't think I'll ever get my hackles up over being called "hon". It's what I grew up with, so if I get irritated at that, I should be worried about myself!

I have often been called "young lady" and taken it as a term of endearment ...well....if the tone isn't sarcastic anyway. I have heard lots of men & women greet a woman in this manner: "Well hello there young lady!" with a genuine smile...Hmmmm....I wonder if it's a regional thing?

What gets me is when someone calls a mature woman young lady, imo, it is equivalent to calling an overweight person "slim", like "your order is coming right up slim". I don't mind ma'm because it is respectful. I am not crazy about being called honey or dear. I had a job applicant in my office one day interviewing him for a position. He called me "dear" that ended the interview.

I'm guilty of using "hon" for both men and women...mostly because my slow brain can't remember their name right off the bat, and I'd rather the generic hon than to address someone by the wrong name which I think is more insulting.

I honestly don't mind hon or sweetie if the person using it calls everyone that. I worked with a woman like that. Absolutely everyone was sweetie or babe to her.

I don't like the assumption that I will be flattered by being called young lady by someone much younger then me. I have come to terms with ma'am, since I am old enough to be one now. :-), but I would have shot darts from my eyes at being called ma'am in my 20s and 30s. Now I hear service people calling every woman "miss". Which also seems strange.

I hate it. And I particularly hate being called Miss Myfirstname.

I had a job applicant in my office one day interviewing him for a position. He called me "dear" that ended the interview.

******

Oh my, now that's bad form!

"If someone called me a bi*#ch, they would get my attention." ~maddielee
------

If someone called me that I'd gaze into their eyes and reply 'Did we grow up together? You seem to know me so well'.

I don't care for being talked down to and 'young lady' and the like all strike me that way, as if the only characteristic worth noting about you or commenting on is your age. I need to get some screaming bright pants and tops and great big glasses, at least it would give the youth something else to focus on. lol

We don't like being "old ladyed" and we don't like being "young ladyed", what's left?

LOL, we don't like being "ma-am'd" or "miss'd" either. :-)

"If someone called me a bi*#ch, they would get my attention."

My reply: "You say that as if it's a bad thing."

I have so many names:

From the bus drivers: sweetie, baby, ma'am etc. All nice people whom I see everyday. They can use whatever term they'd like. Happy bus drivers are good.

From kids in after school programs: Ms. FirstName - anything else would be too formal for the situation and my first name would be strange (we aren't actually friends but we are trying to foster a friendly and open relationship).

I am young so young-lady would just be weird 'cause there is really no reason to point it out. And I agree that 'young lady' would sound patronizing from another women.

At the end of the day, being "young ladyed" is better than being eulogized!

Truth be told, I've been called many things in my life and I've gotten over all of them.

Jelly, loooooove it! I can already see it on a tee shirt. A Mae West-ism. ;)

I have a habit of calling everyone honey, and have been doing it for years. My kids may just as well not have a first name because they are always called honey. Service people, male or female, young or old, are honey. A rude customer servive person will also be 'honeyed to death'~try it! lol I don't use it in a condescending manner, it's just my way of being friendly and making someone feel comfortable and lessen any defences. With my kids, it's just cause I love them so much. ;)

I'm curious what everyone thinks about the problem of "elderspeak".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/us/07aging.html?_r=0

I think the article reinforces the idea that everyone has their own opinion about it. Like the boy in your class who said, "My grandma likes it," some in the article said they viewed it as an attempt to be friendly and didn't take offense. I've found that it's easier to change myself than change others, so I work at letting annoying words roll off me. Sometimes it's really hard work. :-) One thing I don't want to become is one of those "people filled with pet peeves." I do think health care workers should know better, or at least be trained better in how NOT to speak down to those they are caring for.

I was just "young lady-ed" at LAX by the guy who has you walk through the body scanner. But, since I'd just gotten a random TSA Precheck and flew through security without having to disrobe, I felt it was warranted. :)

I'm sure I've been "young lady-ed" at some point, but can't think of a precise time. I can picture a young waiter saying this (and faux flirting), but I think I would tend to just inwardly say, "What a dork" instead of feeling upset over it. I think I'd see him not as condescending, but perhaps as socially awkward and a bit clueless. And young. Sometimes youth and dumb go hand in hand. ;-)

This reminds me of dining out once with my ex husband, who had a long ponytail. We were seated in a booth and the waiter walked up behind where my ex was sitting, turned to face us and said, "Are you ladies ready to order?" That was many years ago, but it still makes me chuckle. ;-)

But I digress. I do agree that context is everything, but out of all the many things that tend to make my hackles rise, a waiter trying to be cute/clever isn't really one of them. That's more along the lines of meriting an inward eye roll and carrying on with the dining experience, IMO.

From the New Yorker...I thought it was timely to this conversation:

Could I imagine a waiter "young ladying" Ruth Bader Ginsberg? I suspect the percentage of teen and 20-something waitstaff who might young lady someone AND recognize Ruth Bader Ginsberg for who she is would be low. So, yes I could imagine it.

About the only time I get "young ladied" is by middle aged men and my contemporaries. It's not a 20 something thing. They barely make eye contact!

Dear God....

Some don't like "Ma'am", some don't like "Miss", some don't like "You old bat..." ;-)

Some seem to almost WANT to be offended by something IMO. The people who ACTUALLY DO get offended by something so simple & harmless as "Young Lady", must have underwear that's too tight or something. <<< Yes, I know this may upset some, but I'm a "Big Boy", so let the arrows fly..... >>>

I'm 54. On the rare occasion I DO say it, it's to someone I think will respond with a little smile. To ME...it's ONLY an attempt to be light-hearted & somewhat jovial in a respectful way. Sometimes, some nice little conversations have ensued! I've NEVER had a grumpy look tossed my way about something so trivial. A few times, a Woman has said back to me, with a wry little grin, "...and HEAVY on the 'Young' there Sir...!!! I LOVE IT!!!! :-)

I guess it's safer than saying "Hey Babe......." ;-)

Faron

How many of us have expressed to a toddler girl who's behaving or doing something just learned (like putting toys away or eating her broccoli) and exclaimed "My, what a big girl you are!"

I pay far more attention to the tone and context of comments. Nonverbal communication says so much more than verbal communication.

So Faron, If a hot young twentysomething waitress served you your dinner and said "here you go young man, is there anything else we need here?", in a faux flirty way you wouldn't feel like she was treating you like a fossil?

"I guess it's safer than saying 'Hey Babe' "

I'm curious about why there are all these terms used to address and refer to women, but there really is nothing comparable regarding men?

To both I say, "Hello" "Thank You" "Excuse me" etc. without having to add a qualifier: "Babe" "Young Lady" "Hon", etc. It wouldn't cross my mind that I need to add something more personal if I don't know someone's name.

It's interesting to get a male's perspective.

"On the rare occasion I DO say it, it's to someone I think will respond with a little smile."

May I ask how you determine this? (not being snarky at all, I'm just really curious!)

Faron, I am only objecting to it being used in a certain snarky manner. Not in every context. If I knew you, and we kidded with each other, and it was used in a mock-stern way; "young lady, is your report ready"? or "you should eat that kale, young lady", that would be different. I'm only irritated when it is used in the specific manner terriks asked about, the faux-flirty way of someone who doesn't even make eye contact and makes it obvious that they are being ironic but I am too old and silly to realize it. I hope I am explaining it well enough. Because I am not an easily offended or touchy person. But I knew exactly what terriks was asking about.