Ratdogheads - my Henri Matisse stays between around 3-4 feet in a mostly sunny spot, but might be a little larger in a full hot sun location. Suffice to say that planting it behind my Champagne Moment was not one of my brighter ideas, and it involves some judicious pruning to make both of them visible. Redwolfdoc - welcome to the fun of rose growing, and always feel free to start a new thread on a topic where it might get more response. I checked the website HelpMeFind, a TERRIFIC website for roses and well worth the optional membership fee, to look up Blue Angel. Both the regular and climbing versions of Blue Angel appear to be on the edge of reported hardiness for our zone, but those are default ratings so not anything to discourage you. If that rose has survived your winters, that's already a good start. Blue Angel cl. is reported to only bloom on old wood, which means that it won't bloom well if it has to regrow from dying back to its roots or graft each year, which is typical of some types of climbers that survive but don't thrive in our zones. Still, 3 seasons is still way too soon to make a judgment about a climber. They tend to spend more time than non-climbing forms in putting down roots and preparing to make their moves, so if it grows some or is at least green and healthy-looking in the active seasons, you might give it some more time. In my world, alfalfa hay or pellets is always a good thing to add to a rose to boost its production a bit in spring. To give you perspective, my Madame Isaac Periere - that is definitely hardy in my zone - was unexciting and unremarkable for 3-4 years while it was putting down roots. Then last spring in its fifth (?) year, it absolutely ate up every rose near it and was stunning in the spring. There's a standard rose wisdom that for roses, first year sleep, second year creep, third year leap. For climbers, you have to give them another year or two of creeping or sleeping before you get leap years. Hope this helps, and welcome to GW! Cynthia

Hi Caroll, this is from Carol! :) I'm surprised Molineux had come back for you (even protected against the house). Had it lost any vigor? Mine survived in a raised area over one winter, but it was obviously not suited to its environemnt. It only regained two canes and had one flower. On the other hand, these should do very well for you. 1. Brother Cadfael - great if you have dry summers (you probably don't). It got tons of buds which were beautiful and large. The bush got up to 3 1/2 feet for me. It was quite floriferous!!! Only problem was that it balled quite a bit in the 3 summers before I moved. We had 3 years of tons of rain. With protection and in an exposed area it had about 1 1/2 feet of green cane for me. Although, under your eaves, it probably wouldn't get too much rain. In that case this would be a fantastic rose for you to get!! Can't remember if there's fragrance. I think there was. This is a great rose! 2. L.D Braithwaite - wonderful fragrance. Gorgeous flowers. Tons of flowers. Same area as Brother Cadfael. This one doesn't ball. The blooms last FOREVER. Get this rose!! My fav. 3. Eglantyne - very hardy - can't say much about it because I planted it in the fall, then it overwintered (really well) and then we moved. 4. Golden Celebration - my only rose to get a little bit of BS. But I love this rose!!! I bought it again for this house because the shape of the plant is arching - great for pots which I'm now using. Gorgeous flower, scent. Lots of blooms. Wow!! About 1/2 foot of green cane in an exposed area, but winter protected. 5. Mary Rose got about 6" of live cane - but very exposed area - planted in a huge raised bed right against the wall. It didn't get many flowers. I think it needed more time and a better location. 6. A Shropshire Lad. - survived its first winter with about 2 1/2 inches of live cane. Didn't even get to see a flower since we moved. But it did get large. 7. Abraham Darby - progressively got smaller and smaller after every winter until it didn't come back. But heavenly scent and gorgeous roses!!! But IMHO, if Molineux has good vigor for you, year after year - then you could try any Austin. Good luck!! I love pushing the zones too! Carol

Thank you for that helpful bit of info, will depend on how leafed out, don't know what to expect. I always water potted plants and let them sit a bit before I put them in. I tend to overwater, and the soil around here gets so dry so FAST these last few years! The new batch coming is going on the east side of the house, oh yes, I got Veilchenblau and 2 Gruss which are supposed to do well in part shade; it won't dry out quite so fast, but it does get dry, and I have to watch it. Next year I may not have to water so much as it seems the roots on stuff I put in last year have gone deeper. We've got rain on the way so I put off watering most stuff except scattered some poppy seeds. Now I have to keep that moist continually. I found a pretty pink columbine at HD and went and planted it out by the garage. The soil looked dry as a bone, but when I got down about an inch, it was nice and moist. Thanks for mentioning spreading out the roots a bit. I wouldn't have thought of that but do always try to dig a little bigger holes than I need and then fill back in to where the plant will be even or just a slight bit deeper. That gives the plant a little better start, chops off competing roots, and loosens the soil around them. My Austins look kind of pathetic but I have high hopes for some of them at least. What must the neighbors think, sticks poking out of the ground with funny shoots on them? Then I have seeds to plant to fill in, hope that works out ok. I will mulch around the roses and leave the bare soil until the seeds get going, if I'm lucky. Thanks again, you are a wonderful help and have been on other threads as well. I fell in love with these purple poppies, so will have to plant those, just came in the mail, so much to do. Those aren't the ones I scattered earlier today. I don't know whether to mix them in with the roses or the yellow and white lilies I have coming or find another spot for them. Here is a link that might be useful: Purple poppies

Here are some of the roses that have died on me. I am in zone 5a (not 4). I figure that if roses are hardy to zone 4 then they might survive here. This is getting expensive. I bought several Buck roses from Sam Kedem a few years back when he was still doing mail order. Most died the first winter. Maybe it was a combination of weak plants and rabbit damage. Country Song Rural Rhythm (both have Austin The Yeoman in their background) Choral Prairie Harvest Prairie Sunrise (survived for a few years, then suddenly died over the winter) Gentle Persuasion Queen Bee Prairie Star (died this year, from RU, protected from rabbits) Austins that have died (mostly from Roses Unlimited) A Shropshire Lad William Shakespeare 2000 Eglantyne Tamora Heritage (walmart own root) Molineux (walmart own root) Graham Thomas (walmart own root) The Prince Golden Celebration Romanticas that have died on me (Bolero survived without protection!) Peter Mayle Liv Tyler Rouge Royale Yves Piaget Frederic Mistral Delbard that died Madam Figaro Notes: I am very impressed with Evelyn. Most of my Generosa roses survived the winter. Honeysweet, you go girl!