If you're open to considering what I suggested above, could you please provide us with the dimensions listed below? Note that I've asked for 3 measurements of the overall room in each direction b/c of your comment that nothing is square, etc. In many cases, these old houses can have differences of 4, 5, or more inches from one side of the room to the other!

"K" is the window I see in the pictures but not shown in the layout you posted.

A = _____

B = _____

C = _____

D = _____

E = _____

F = _____

G = _____

H = _____

I = _____

J = _____

K = _____

L = _____

My bad, I didn't know what a recessed wall was. I have looked it up and I think I get it now. The fridge is 36" wide; is this possible? I'm having a hard time imagining what this would look like.

No matter what there will be compromises and the need for creativity. I'm also going to assume you are handy and will do all work yourselves which you'll need to do if you are going to keep costs low.

One approach to try to keep you at the $2K mark might be to consider a smaller sink, which I think you'd want to replace anyways to get rid of the 70s avocado porcelain. You could squeeze a 24" sink and a 24" dishwasher under the window (but the window would not line up directly under the window). You might be able to buy low cost off the shelf cabinets at HD or reclaimed that you could insert against the wall under the window. You'd have to look at the cabinet construction very closely to see if it would still hold up. It looks like you might have a total width of about 5-6 feet. You would have to look at the plumbing closely to try to minimize the need to move pipes. This would help you decide whether to move the sink to the left or the right. You would lose storage so you would need a pantry in the utility or living area. Then put the fridge by the water heater.

Agree with flipping the hinges on the back door so the door opens against the water heater.

I'd then patch together cabinet doors, paint cabinets, and get a countertop with whatever is on sale at Home Depot or reclaimed. You would also learn how to install tile backsplash.

If you do the work yourself and get lucky finding sale/reclaimed items I think you could do this for $2,000. You might find a sweat equity deal where someone remodeling their kitchen will give you their old cabinets in exchange for helping out.

Agree if you went up to $4,000-6,000 you'd be able to get something much different at Ikea IF you do the work yourselves. Labor is typically going to be at least 50% of the cost of a remodel so doing the work yourself will double your effective budget.

Other inexpensive cabinet options:

• Cragslist
• Habitat for Humanity Store

Stan Z: "No
matter what there will be compromises and the need for creativity. I'm
also going to assume you are handy and will do all work yourselves
which you'll need to do if you are going to keep costs low."

DH is handy and he has friends who are handy, some of whom are contractors, but they seem to be perpetually busy with no time for us anymore. I think they got a taste of what it was to work on our house and they don't want to touch it ever again, tbh.

"One approach might be to consider a smaller sink,"

That's not something I"m willing to do; in fact I've been planning for a deeper sink; I absolutely hate shallow sinks. I soak dishes several times a week and need a deep sink. Even having a DW will not alleviate my ongoing need to soak dishes weekly. I should have posted this in my original post and now it's too late, so I'll post it here. I have a food allergy, which complicates things. DH eats foods I'm allergic to, which creates a need to keep things segregated, which makes it even more difficult to use this kitchen. Soaking of dishes has become part of my protocol. DH has his dishes and I have my dishes, but I regularly need to use "my" side of the sink to wash his dishes, which then contaminates my side, so I have to clean it often so that I can use "my" side of the sink again. I cook a lot, too. 5-6 nights of the week I'm cooking from scratch. I get a lot of pots/pans dirty and have to soak them. We are also putting in a big garden and I'll need the sink even more for processing/canning/blanching etc.

"get rid of the 70s avocado porcelain."

Yes definitely; I was planning on going with a stainless sink.

To everyone who is suggesting removal of cabinets, this is something DH is dead-set against and here's why: nothing is 90 degrees, which means that any new cabinets we put in will fight, and fight hard. They won't fit right. Also, the floor will fight too since it rolls/is not even. Also, it seems wasteful. I am hoping that we in fact can get away with cutting the cabinets to the right of the sink to make way for DW. I will be posting more pics tomorrow.

Do you have 3'5" between the corner and the actual opening into the laundry room, or between the corner and the door trim?

I believe it's the door trim; I'll re-check.

"...it seems wasteful..."

Seriously? If they were in great shape with no issues, I'd agree, but from what I see, they look like they're going to fall apart any time now. If you don't want to change them out, then I strongly discourage you from trying to cut in to what you have - you may end up having to scramble to replace everything.

Get the portable DW - my mom has been living with a portable DW for at least 20 years now - and she's OK with it even though it's hooked up to water & drain on the other side of the kitchen and she has to cross the kitchen to load/unload the DW. It's b/c she's in a similar situation as you are cabinet-wise. In the past, she didn't want to replace them and they're not in too bad a shape (except the corner susan in the upper corner cabinet that collapsed a few years ago and the wood-on-wood drawers that stick.) (Plus, I think it was somewhat for sentimental reasons as well - my grandfather and father built the house we grew up in, including the cabinets.)

Now, however, she's looking at Ikea since Ikea now offers wood drawers.

However, it's your kitchen and if you're dead set against it, that's your choice.

So...

1. Put the DW to the right of the DR wall - they come with butcher block tops, so no need to worry about counter. Maybe build a pony wall b/w the DR and Kitchen to hide the back of the DW.
2. Move the refrigerator to the Laundry Room wall, next to the doorway
3. Get a rolling cart or shelves for b/w the refrigerator & hot water closet
4. Call it a day and be done. Minimal cost - no more angst.

---------------------------------------

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

is there space in the laundry room to put more cabinets and another sink? you could check HFH for used cabs. you could have the larger sink in there to soak things and a small one in the kitchen for cooking/small things - and space to the R of it for a dw - look for an 18' w one.

cab to left of stove too.

Sorry to jump into the conversation, but I thought it was funny that your husband is claiming that getting rid of these cabinets would be wasteful. If you are really careful and don't sneeze, you might be able to squeeze 5yrs from them, but why would you want to? Life is too short to live miserably, when you have a choice otherwise.

i think you should compromise with DH--he gets to keep his crappy old cabinets and YOU get to have him stop eating things that make you sick until you're in a big enough kitchen to keep things separate.

He is being unreasonable.

I remember your thread from a few years ago. The cabinets were in very poor condition then, with knot holes falling out and the plywood doors separating. You also mentioned a musty smell. You got so much advice then.

The sink thing is ridiculous. Let him wash his own dishes. My DH does the dishes every night. He can't cook so that's one of the ways he shows his gratitude for having a good homemade meal every night.

Sorry but the minute you pull the cabinets you will end up going over $10k unless you can find all used cabs and countertops...AND know how to patch the walls and do all the work yourself...

Have you considered getting dishwasher drawers? You could clean your stuff in one and his in the other.

Are you presently trying to renovate or did you just move-in? I'm not judging, but I don't think it's suitable for use in its present condition. If drastic change is not in the budget, there is definitely things you could do to make it better. I'm curious what your budget and goals are, other than a dishwasher.

I'm curious what your budget and goals are, other than a dishwasher.

I think that was in her first post.

Thank you for updating your thread with the link to this one! : )

Yes, this project is possible. No, you don't have to live with that kitchen the way it is. You and your DH just need to get on the same page and catch a vision for that space that works in both of your minds.

If you're up for a little more demo work, I'd recess the fridge the way that others are suggesting, like this: (No need to move a loadbearing wall. A header will be needed over the fridge, though.)

As far as the cabinets go, I think the cheapest thing to do would be to build cabinet framing on site, sort of the old fashioned way. If the walls and floor are as wonky as you are saying, this might be the least stressful way to go. Install cleats along the back and side walls, and vertical support members along the front, on either side of the sink. The shelves could be attached to these. Ideally, the bottom shelf would be installed above floor height with a toe kick so that you could sweep easily.

Will you get GW approved drawers? No, probably not. (Or maybe you could buy 1 stack and only have to level that one section!) But, you'll get wide open spaces, new counters. You could get cooking for very little money.

And, it'll be charming. ; ) Hang curtains over everything. I'd use metal piping or rods, and buy clip rings (or, I've used Notebook Clips in the past for this, threaded through button holes along the tops of the curtains.) I'd want the curtains to slide easily, and I'd want to be able to take them down and wash them when needed. This person used sheets for the fabric. Yard sale season is almost here, chances are that this could be done for a song.

Here is what the framing for the cabinets would look like (except I'd add shelves in there, too!)

And here are some more skirted examples (click to expand the collage):

Before you decide against Ikea I thought I'd throw out some ideas for your consideration:

Ikea cabinets hang on the walls on suspension rails so wacky floors shouldn't be a big deal. In addition to the level rail, there are two adjustable height legs on the front of the base cabinets to level them front edge to back edge. Since your walls are likely wavy you'd probably have to shim. I suspect the trickiest part might be just finding the studs in the wall. Here's a pic showing a shimmed ikea sektion rail. My husband is smart, but definitely NOT a DIYer type and he recently installed our Ikea cabinets without any struggle.

I put together a floor plan in the Ikea planner focusing on maximum function with minimal cost. My focus was to increase prep space between sink and range and to get you some efficient storage, especially drawers.

The kitchen cabinets, saljan counter top and the forhoja kitchen cart in the drawings below come in at less than $1315. This layout would be even cheaper if you opted for 30" tall uppers instead of the 40" uppers shown below. The cabinets have the cheapest door/drawer fronts--haggeby--but they'll last until you sell.

Cabinets include five upper cabinets (36" by water heater, 12" to left of range, above range, 24" to the right of range, 24" above dishwasher.) The base cabinets include a 15" drawer stack to the left of the range, a voided corner so you can get a 30" drawer stack between range and sink and a kitchen cart to the left of the water heater so you can move it closer to the work space for when you do your canning.

My hope is that your sink plumbing is far enough to the right of the existing cabinet that you can move the sink over so there's only about 26" between the sink base cabinet and the dining room wall for your dishwasher, maximizing prep counter on the left. If it's not you can just move it over as far as you can. You don't have to move the plumbing, however, just 12" to the right would make a big improvement in function.

It looks like the short wall on the dining room side of the laundry room door is the perfect length for tucking the refrigerator. It looks like you might have the fridge in the dining room proper right now. You might skoot it over to the bedroom wall instead and see it is improves your space.

Another thing I noted is that your back door swings the wrong way. Hmm. Maybe there's a reason for this that's not obvious or maybe it's just more of the janky-ness you inherited, but having the light switch on the hinge side rather than the knob side would drive me bananas. Also, having to walk around the door to get between back yard and kitchen is easily improved. I'd swap that back door for one that swings properly

Sorry this is so long. I'm typing kind of train-of-thought like since I'm short on time.

I would also consider building an outdoor canning center. I have seen a few people use them, Google ideas that fit your needs

I apologize as I haven't read all the other comments. But it looks like you might squeak in a DW if you can move the stove to the left 10" and put the DW right next to it. Not sure what that would mean for the plumbing and electrical, but it's worth considering. I agree that the fridge will need to go next to the hot water closet. Love mamagoose's recommendation for the narrow pantry on the blank wall.

But if you know you are going to sell in a few years, and knowing that kitchens are what really sell houses, I too would consider redoing the cabinetry, wonky walls and all. It will be an investment that you will enjoy and will help sell the house faster down the road. Otherwise potential buyers will come in and say, "this cabinetry has to go" and then knock $10-20k off the offer price.

So it seems like many of you believe that the cabinets are about to fall to pieces at any given moment. I believe you are not giving them enough credit. As old and ugly as they may be, they actually seem quite sturdy and I think they deserve a second look. In my old thread, "Help! Ugly Plywood Cabinets!" many folks there seemed to think that the cabinets were worth saving, and I had intended on following many of the suggestions in that thread. I really liked irmaly's suggestions and pics.

I should also mention that I love the patterns in Birch and I had a perhaps far-fetched fantasy of sanding them down to see how deep the old dark ugly stain went into the wood and if it was pretty shallow then I would re-stain with a light or clear gloss (the only way to find out if that's possible is to sand away and see how deep the old dark stain on the cabinet doors goes). I know that because these are plywood I can't sand too deep.

By the way DH finally has a workshop area set up that I can get to sanding these! I'm really excited.

So lets take a second look and come to a consensus: to save, or not to save, my old plywood cabinets:

And some more pics.

That's probably far more than enough photos to make a determination.

To me it's more about efficient use of space (and getting you a dishwasher.) And not the life left in the existing cabinets.

The cabinets you have night be solidly built, but blind corner and skinny base cabinets don't make the most of your space. The 30" all-drawer base cabinet and 15" all-drawer base cabinet I proposed above would hugely improve your kitchen time. Imagine not having to get on hands and knees to reach in the back of those skinny bases. It's awesome.

how about keeping the existing uppers and getting better base cabinets?

Are you willing to use a portable dishwasher?

what are the overall dimensions of the whole kitchen--across the wall behind the sink and the whole width of the wall and entry to dining room?

Can you move the back door to the laundry room? Make it like a mudroom entrance?

benjesbride, I'm not sure; it depends on the cost and how much of a pain in the rear it would be. I have no idea about either of those. $500? $1k? $2k? I should mention that we have had new siding on the outside of the house, so moving the door would then require at the very least re-doing the siding on the back of our house. I don't know how much of a hassle that would be.

mama goose_gw zn6OH,

Regarding your question about recessing the wall, DH reminded me that the walls in the kitchen are all plywood, not drywall. Would this make recessing the wall more difficult?

I was thinking along the same lines as benjesbride. Our home is complete out of square and level as well, and our floors also roll, and I also installed IKEA cabinets in our kitchen without much fuss and a bunch of shims.

Having done both, I think it is actually easier to install new IKEA cabinets than it is to modify existing cabinets (just because then the cabinet you are working with is meant for what you are installing in it and doesn't fight you nearly so much). Also then the result is a lot more attractive, has more drawers, and functions better (glides for drawers, soft close, can use IKEA's drawer organizers), etc.

You can even leave the uppers in place and just replace the base cabinets to add a dishwasher, a new sink, and some space between the sink and range.

HOWEVER, I also have an alternate suggestion. Even with all those lovely changes mentioned above, you'd still have a real lack of storage space and no large stretch of counter anywhere.

So, what if you left the existing cabinets as they are and just modified the area to the right of the sink to allow for a dishwasher. I do think it'll be a bother to bend the old cabinets to your will, and the result may not be super pretty, but it'll be functional and super cheap.

Then, I wonder how much it would cost to move the water heater into the laundry room (just on the other side if the same wall it's on now) and install a back or side door in a different room in the house (perhaps also the laundry room).

This is the type of suggestion that a lot of homeowners instantly dismiss because it sounds expensive and also they can't fathom where else to put the door, etc. Please bear with me!

You'd have to post a floor plan of this whole floor of the house so we can see the laundry room better and make suggestions for an alternate location for the back/side door. I'm sure we can come up with a good one.

And as to the cost, I'm expecting this suggestion to take the majority of your kitchen budget. However, if you do price it out and find out that the costs of those two acts (moving water heater and adding a new door somewhere else) is around $2000 or less, then that would be extreeeeemely interesting!

With those two items gone, you now have five (ish) uninterrupted feet to the left of your range for a long counter workspace on top of two 30" drawer base cabinets from IKEA, which will hold A LOT. I have exactly two stacks of drawers in my kitchen (both 30" as well), and together, they hold all my eating utensils (forks, knives, spoons), cooking utensils (wooden spoons, tongs, spatulas, etc.), prep utensils (knives, zester, peeler, measuring cups, measuring spoons, etc.), everyday dishes (bowls, plates), stove top pans, baking pans, mixing bowls, a bunch of other odds and ends, and there is still empty space in some of the drawers as well.

Two 30" drawer stacks hold A LOT. Five feet of counter for prepping is actually a really good size for ANY kitchen.

You can also install a window above the new counter where the back door is now (using the same header) and have light coming in two sides of your kitchen and view/natural light over your main prep counter.

The cost of those two drawer base cabinets plus a random cheap counter to go on top (butcher block or laminate) would be about $500.

So, say, $3000 total to cover odds and ends, plus the cost of the new dishwasher and sink and any additional countertop modifications in the existing area of the kitchen now, and I think it is quite possible for you to spend under $4000 for a massive improvement in function.

The plywood between the HW closet and the door is probably one sheet, and will need to be removed from the existing studs, but the same would be true of drywall, and you also need to remove the wall covering in the laundry. You might have to cover the studs and the new surround frame with drywall, due to fire safety code. While you're working in the laundry (sorry, scope-creep ;), you might want to put shelves between the new bump-out and the exterior wall, for storage, so you might want to do that construction at the same time.

I see an outlet, which will need to be moved, but you mentioned that you have friends who can help. When I bought my last fridge, the manufacturer's specs said it should be plugged into a dedicated outlet, so you might want to consider that. Did you get a chance to check to total length of the wall?

Yes, it was 3'5" between the corner and the beginning of the door trim, rather than the actual opening.

If you are happy with the present condition of the cabinets, you could just reface them yourself, which will make a huge difference in appearance. Sounds like you were going down that path, back in 2014, so what stopped you? I just bought a condo and redid the entire kitchen by myself, including electrical, within a couple of months of moving in (including faucet, ceiling light/under cabinet LED lights/dimmer, induction oven, cabinet refacing) for under $1500 for product.

For the cabinet refacing, I would not chance sanding the heck out of those cabinets. A good cleaning, maybe a light sand, then Zinsser BIN shellac primer to seal any existing degradation and allowing paint to adhere. You sand the primer, not the wood, to get a even look. Paint is the easiest thing to change, and it costs next to nothing if you do it yourself.

Yes, it was 3'5" between the corner and the beginning of the door trim, rather than the actual opening.

Great news! I think that is just enough room to add a couple of jack studs for a header, and 3/8" drywall on the inside of the box. You can use the thicker drywall on the back of the box. You might want to check the specs for required air space around the fridge.

I hadn't commented on the previous thread, but I wanted to mention that I remodeled an older kitchen a few years ago. The PO had built the cabinets himself, using wooden drawer glides, which had worn with use and started shedding sawdust onto everything in the cabinets below them. The cabinets were plywood with hard-as-rock maple face frames. We had one base with two drawers, and one top drawer on each of the other cabinets, as well as a narrow, 12 deep, tall pantry. I kept some of the uppers, and a couple of the bases, because I knew I couldn't afford to buy anything as sturdy and well made as those cabinets. I cut the tall pantry in half, and used part of it as an upper cabinet. My father, who helped me remodel, took the old bases and counter for garage storage, and I re-used the drawers and doors for other projects in the kitchen, and built-ins for an attic bedroom. I still have the door to the tall pantry, but I know I'll find a use for it some day.

If your cabinets are sturdy, and you don't mind repairing and refinishing them, it can be very gratifying to make an old, tired-looking, dysfunctional kitchen look fresher and function better.

Hey Swiss!

Your cabinets look just like the ones I took out. Built like steel, not especially attractive and poor functionally. I love the ones I ordered from The Cabinet Joint. Laughable's plan is exactly how I would rejuvenate your kitchen. It's just up to you now. What are you willing to spend for what duration.... If it is about the money- do absolute nothing. Sock all $ into forever home. Paint at the most.

heatheron40: "Your cabinets look just like the ones I took out. Built like steel,
not especially attractive and poor functionally. I love the ones I
ordered from The Cabinet Joint. Laughable's plan is exactly how I would
rejuvenate your kitchen. It's just up to you now. What are you willing
to spend for what duration.... If it is about the money- do absolute
nothing. Sock all $ into forever home. Paint at the most."

I agree; so far I'm liking laughable's plan the most. What am I willing to spend? No more than 4k on the kitchen (DH is putting 2k down and I'm putting 2k down). I will need to do some more investigating because right now there are still some questions: 1) Can the cabinets in fact be cut for the DW and 2) can a recessed wall be done? Once I know more I'll present the idea to DH and see what he thinks. So far though he's been greatly opposed to making "big" changes like that but I think I can convince him. I believe it's within reason and the fact is that we both have businesses and can afford it.

mama goose_gw zn6OH: "Great news! I think that is just enough room to add a couple of jack
studs for a header, and 3/8" drywall on the inside of the box. You can
use the thicker drywall on the back of the box. You might want to check
the specs for required air space around the fridge."

mama goose, I am really, really, really liking this idea. I'm getting excited thinking about it. I've been watching episodes of This Old House having to do with load bearing walls and such and it's making more sense to me, but I don't get why it costs $3k+ to remove a load bearing wall (or in this case, convert it into a recessed wall). Our house is a simple, small, single-story home. Why would it cost $3k+ to install jack studs and a header? I have no idea. Maybe someone here can tell me.

If we do the load bearing wall conversion to recessed wall, the fridge will still stick out some. A standard wall is what, 5 inches thick? Fridge is 31" deep. Hot water heater closet is 20-1/2". So 31" - 20-1/2" - 5" - 1-1/2" for fridge wall plug = 7" sticking out (I'm not sure I actually want to push the wall back into the laundry room though; have to think about that one). And then, what to do with the hot water heater closet? Perhaps This Old House has some ideas.

Random thought: DH and I have talked about getting a tankless water heater at "some point" in the future; he says it costs $1,700. Yikes. That makes me hesitate.

"I hadn't commented on the previous thread, but I wanted to mention
that I remodeled an older kitchen a few years ago. The PO had built the
cabinets himself, using wooden drawer glides, which had worn with use
and started shedding sawdust onto everything in the cabinets below them."

These cabinets have metal glides that squeak and also shed sawdust. Also, I have gotten splinters several times from these cabinets.

"If your cabinets are sturdy, and you don't mind repairing and
refinishing them, it can be very gratifying to make an old,
tired-looking, dysfunctional kitchen look fresher and function better."

That is what I plan on doing. As a happy bonus, DH has decided to start wood working as a hobby. He decided to do it because we can't find furniture in any furniture store we would want to buy; it's all particle board. We want solid wood furniture that is custom made and we can't find anyone who custom makes furniture that we feel comfortable with. So DH decided to begin learning by buying old-fashioned tools such as planers and hand drills and hand saws and all of that, and he will learn that way and then move on to power tools. He also has a friend who has years of experience with woodworking who is going to guide him. I'm thinking I will learn from DH and his friend all I can and do as much of the work as I can myself.

Updated to add: I just talked with DH about walls and he said that even the non-load bearing walls in the house put up a fight when they were getting removed (the old house had a lot of walls which we removed in order to open up the cave-like spaces). For example, he said shims were required and boards wanted to twist and warp due to things being uneven and not square, and the floor had to be modified (I am not sure what all was involved there). I can see DH's perspective; he says the kitchen and house isn't worth the hassle, which largely falls to him to deal with. But it's important to me, I just feel bad that it falls to him...I don't trust myself to touch a load-bearing wall and wouldn't even think about it.

You can buy unfinished solid wood furniture on the cheap, no need to build everything from scratch. I purchased a lot of my furniture from online unfinished stores for fraction of the price. Finish it the way you like it and your done. Wayfair has a big inventory. It might cost you more to build then buy.

Steph: "You
can buy unfinished solid wood furniture on the cheap, no need to build
everything from scratch. I purchased a lot of my furniture from online
unfinished stores for fraction of the price. Finish it the way you like
it and your done. Wayfair has a big inventory."

I'm looking at unfinished furniture on Wayfair and the dressers that come closest to what I want to build cost over $1,000. I think DH can build it cheaper. We have access to materials at discount prices too.

"It might cost you more
to build then buy."

If you count the purchase of all the tools, yes definitely. But we have a lot of stuff to build and that way the cost of the tools is spread out across many pieces and projects, so I think in the end it will be cheaper for us to build. And we get to design however we want.

mama goose_gw zn6OH: "The
plywood between the HW closet and the door is probably one sheet"

Heh, the HW heater is surrounded by single-sheet crappy plywood and I've hated it since day 1. Is it possible to make it look something like this, you think?

I have no idea why it would take $3000 to recess a fridge. I think you are confusing two different issues. Firstly, and simply, you have a wall that is 3½ feet, with two studs beside the door, and at least two studs on the corner (by the HW closet). Studs are usually 16" on center, so there shouldn't be more than two in that wall, other than the ones I mentioned. I would hazard a guess, and say you could probably remove both of them, with no ill effects because of the reinforcements on each side. Would I do that? No, partly because it is such an easy fix, why chance it? My late husband did the work on ours that I described in a previous post. In addition, he and his father cut a new door opening, and installed a header into the same wall (former exterior load bearing wall, in a story and a half house) in the DR. It took them an afternoon, and a few 2x4s and a 2x6, plus the new pre-hung door.

Removing a load bearing wall involves adding a beam and beefed up supports. My father (a semi-retired contractor) built and installed a laminated beam between our kitchen and DR, when I decided to widen the doorway from 32" to 8'. You first have to make sure the crawl space or basement piers will support the posts (if not on a slab), then build the beam, or order it made off-site, install it, reroute electric wires, install the drywall and finish it, so that might be what's involved in the $3000 quote. I don't know what ours cost, because my father didn't charge for labor, and he used material from his stock, with his contractor's discount for anything else he had to buy. It was 5 years ago, and prices have probably risen.

I understand the challenges presented when remodeling an older home--mine is a late 1920's bungalow with sloping floors, and the same out of square corners. It has protested every step of the way.

How do you feel about using a beadboard sheet on the HW heater closet? We used inexpensive BB sheets on some closets, and to cover a block chimney, when we added a room onto the house. I used the same material in the kitchen, but then, I love beadboard.

I hate to tell you but I had old but perfectly serviceable plywood cabinets for 20 years in darn near your exact configuration and they were still old but perfectly useable when I finally pulled them. They will never really die. So you cannot wait for them to die...But yanking them involved extensive fixing of the floor, wall and ceiling. It looks like you will have less patching than I had, but you would still have some.... Now the costs, new to you cabinets, a little plumbing, a little electric, the new DW, the new garbage disposal, sink, counter, backsplash, faucet, vent hood, ceiling lights, floor covering, toe kick, patch and paint...and you will easily exceed your $2k budget. Not to mention, but I will, that anytime you go into a wall you can be unpleasantly surprised....If you really cannot afford to do what you want, collect ideas and save money and in the meantime consider a used portable DW next to the stove and paint everywhere....

Swiss Chard

Been there done - physically done the rehab on several houses from late 1890s - 1950s.

And most of the posters suggestions are gonna blow past $6000, 8000+++ in a heartbeat, (Have figured out that it seems like most on Houzz have never lifted a paintbrush - let alone actually done the work like messing with a load bearing wall or reframing doors or wiring.) Start replacing those cabinets with even unfinished cabinets and you are already at $1000 for unfinished oak - and a lot of swearing and shimming and "you can 2 of the 3 - straight, level or plumb but not all 3." And dishwasher drawers...... shessh there goes another $600 -800 and that doesn't include the complicate plumbing runs to get to those.

Now to come in at the low end of budget:

(1) Leave the fridge where it is. Forget opening a load bearing wall and doing some build-out on the other side. Guarantee you are going to run into problems with support and getting the needed wiring in will lead to much -huge amounts of - cursing and "you want me to WHAT" from your husband. You would need to push a 31" deep fridge back 10 1/2" through the wall and into the adjoining room. Building a 6 1/2" deep bumpout (total depth 11 inches) into the adjoining room -and through a load-bearing wall to boot with removing/relocating 3 studs- would be a scary project. (And yeah we have opened up load-bearing walls and done the cross-beam support thing)

Plywood walls .....now we are into "Nightmare on Elm Street" territory.

You can just build a floor-ceiling wall on the open side of the fridge where it is- makes it look built-in and breaks it off from the dining room. Maybe there is room in the laundry for the fridge.

Hard to tell how the laundry room size but from the one photo, it looks like there is no room to take up 11" of floor space with a bumpback wall - probably not enough room for fridge either unless there is (a) space across from the washer/dryer or (b) you go to a stackable washer/dryer setup or a clothes processor (only thing I have used for 15++ years -love it.)

No way to put a fridge in that kitchen. The only space is only 20 1/2 deep and you would come through the back door and in one small step run smack into that 36" wide 31" deep moose sticking out in the traffic pattern. You might have been able to squeeze in counter-depth fridge there as it would only have stuck out 4 or 5 inches but to get one not more than 25" deep and 19 cu ft or more is way way way expensive - like over $7000.

(2) To the left of the sink, you CAN fit an 18" Dishwasher if that is at least an 18" cabinet - just have to remove the shelves and the kickplate and face frame. An 18" DW is actually more like 17 1/2 - it is called an 18" because it needs an 18" cutout.

(3) Leave the cabinets alone -just refinish.

(a) You could give them a sand and restain and use real varnish (not poly) to seal or paint and seal with real varnish (no need to sand - just use Zinnser BIN or 123)

(b) You can dress up the front of the cabinets by adding molding. This works nicely - not so tall coming out from the door that it is annoying but adds dimension. http://www.homedepot.com/p/DecraMold-DM-L58-7-32-in-x-17-32-in-Solid-Pine-Wall-and-Cabinet-Trim-Embossed-with-a-Button-Style-Design-10000108/100391978; http://www.homedepot.com/p/DecraMold-DM-L58-17-32-in-x-7-32-in-x-96-in-Solid-Pine-Wall-and-Cabinet-Trim-Moulding-10000107/100392983

If you want to get really fancy, you could add some birch embossings to the cabinet doors. Easy to do - put with some wood glue and small brads. Search for "Birch appliques" http://www.homedepot.com/s/birch%2520%2520appliques?NCNI-5

With a good quality gel stain (Old Village or Bartley) you can get the original doors and pine trim to stain to match. (BTW Old Masters is not that good - it will never get an even match with 2 different woods and Minwax is fit only for the trash bin.)

(4) 3'5" wall next to water heater. You still need a home for a microwave. The space is 21 1/2 deep.

You can make a pantry/microwave space by doing the following

* get unfinished UPPER cabinets which are 12" deep - all big box stores have them. 1 row will make the base and 1 or 2 rows the top (2 if you want to go to the ceiling.)

* get some 1x3x8 and some furniture feet (the 4 -4 1/2" bun feet would work.)

* make a rectangular frame with the 1x3 to run under the bottom the lower cabinet run. Attach the furniture feet plates and then the feet.

*attach the cabinet to the wall.

The feet and the countertop will bring it up to 36" high -standard counter height.

* top the lower cabinet run with some countertop -you can use plywood or particle board (3/4 " -2 thick) and tile or laminate or cutdown pre-made laminate counter or the concrete thing I describe below. Give the counter a 1" overhang. (Total counter depth 13"

* GE makes several microwaves that are 12 3/4 deep.

* Put an outlet there so that the microwave plugs in to its side and not straight back

* Mount a matching run of upper cabinets above

* Top the upper cabinets with a 12" edge-glued board (these are a true 12" - not the "called 12" but really 11 1/2" lumber. Add some molding to the from edge of the edge-glue board so it comes out past the cabinet.

Quarter round works or this works http://www.homedepot.com/p/House-of-Fara-5-8-in-x-3-4-in-x-84-in-Hardwood-Panel-Shelf-Moulding-545/203362309

Paint or stain as you like.

Now you have microwave home AND more cabinets for storage - a 12" deep pantry.

(5) Counter - you have a few low-cost but better looking options than is there.

(a) Strip the laminate and tile it. Lowe's has a white or cream 4x4 tile by American Olean for 16 cents a tile. You can use the fancy-schmancy countertop edge tile or you can do the same tile as the top on the front-edge cut so they fit under the counter tile (kind of a brick look pattern) . Probably a good choice - you have very little counterspace and need to be able toput down hot pans.

(b) Strip the laminate and relaminate with material of your choice. Figure $60 -180 depending upon what you pick.

(c) Strip the laminate. Do 3 coats of feather-finish concrete (sanding with 200 paper after each.) You can leave the concrete or paint it in a stone pattern if you like (lots of videos and instructions on the web for faux marble or faux granite.) Seal the counter with a 2 part bartop expoxy. Famowood Glazecoat works -Home Depot has it. (Just make sure that it is 75-80 degrees right at the countertop while the expoy is setting up - it needs a WARM area like that to set up. Definitely not a project for a winter day on counters on an exterior walls)

Stripping the current laminate just means a heat gun and 5-1 painters tool - comes right up

(6) Sink - just get a stainless steel. That looks like a standard 33" wide. 10" deep double bowl (50/50) is $107 at Home Depot.

If you have an architectural salvage place in your area (Habitat for Humanity Restore or others (we have one called Odom Reusable Building Materials - love that place) check them out for materials. Cabinets will go for $30 -50 and stainless sinks for $25 -35 (And if you get lucky, you can even score a Kohler white cast iron double basin kitchen sink for $60!)

BTW if you want to buy more space, dump the tank water heater and get a Bosch Tankless. Hangs on the wall. and is only 18" wide. With a tankless (gerat thing - never run out of hot water) you might be able to move the water heater the laundry and get rid of that closet - and thus add more 12" deep cabinet storage and counter. If you go to a tankless and keep the closet, you can cut down the water heater closet and use louvered door. (At a salvage place that louvre door you show would be about $35 - not the $200ish at a big box store.)

(BTW, the picture you have of one door.....uh there is an never-used louvered door here in the garage just like that.....its looking for a home.)

Total done like this = UNDER $1400.

... anytime you go into a wall you can be unpleasantly surprised....

Too
true--when we moved the back entry from the kitchen, to the dining
room, we found that the 32" kitchen door didn't have a header, just an
extra 2x4 on each side. We'd lived there 15 years at the time, since
1994, and the last remodel before we bought the house was in 1981. I suspect the
original back entry was in the DR, because the stairs are also in that
room, so the PO who remodeled the kitchen 1981 was the likely culprit.
Thank goodness we found it, though, before the house came crashing down
on our heads. ;)

With all due respect, Ann, I think you are
making recessing the fridge too complicated. It's a 3½ foot span, on an
interior bearing wall, in a one story house.

Swiss_Chard_fanatic, do your homework--you said you've already started researching, but here a some more websites (recessing a fridge into a wall).

Because
the new back wall of the fridge isn't load bearing, the studs can be
turned sideways, and you can use the sheet beadboard that I mentioned
earlier, to cover it if you don't want to see the plywood. That will save you a couple of inches in the laundry. The
new header and jack studs will carry the weight of the bearing wall (from the cripple/s)--the
bump-out just needs to stay upright, like a very shallow closet, so you
could probably use furring strips in the back wall (not the sides), rather than 2x4s. We used a piece of painted heavy plywood paneling, to
match what was already in the mudroom, on the back of our fridge bump-out (no
studs, but some furring strips in a grid pattern, to keep it stable). We
used a sheet of rigid foam insulation on the fridge side of the box,
because the mudroom is usually unheated except on the coldest days,
sealed the edges with caulk, and painted it. We actually had more air
space than we needed behind it, because I decided to pull the new drawer
bases out from the wall 3", and make the counter deeper.

If
the wires for the current outlet come from the direction of the WH, you (and by you, I mean a qualified person)
shouldn't have any problem relocating it to the new right wall. A dedicated outlet might pose more of a problem.

I'm
not trying to talk you into doing something that you're not comfortable
doing, but if you want to pursue that option, get an electrician to
come in and give you an estimate, check with your friends who are in the
construction trades, check local safety codes, and read about others'
projects. I do agree with Ann about used cabinets--I found some
vintage cabinets on craigslist for the kitchen and DR. They were
cherry-stained pine, which I painted off-white. It was a lot of work,
and took a lot of time, but I love the results.

No mama going into that wall IS complicated.

2 studs =16" (on center"). They need more like 38" to have room to slide it in and out. That means at affecting probably 3 if not 4 studs (based upon the distance from the exterior wall). Doing a new header is tricky stuff - have to be able calculate load bearing capacity of the new header to figure out the dimensions of the header -as in a 2 x4 is way not enough and it could need 2 2x8s or 2 x10s or 1 4x8. Not for anyone not experienced at this stuff.

From what the OP said, I gather they aren't that experienced - skilled at some things but not of "doing the engineering calculations" skill level. If the one doing the work isn't comfortable with having to shim cabinets out, they have no business trying to open a load-bearing wall and doing a header. And bringing in someone to do it will easily hit $800 -1200 (based upon what they charge in my area.)

And the walls are PLYWOOD. Finishing the corners of the setback are gonna be the very devil - wood wall into wallboard from the sides of the new setback or plywood to plywood?? Yikes. You have to take down the entire plywood panel - can't just cut it with a drywall knife. They would end up having to drywall the entire wall to put it back.

Also look at the laundry room in the one picture. It doesn't look like there is room to do a bump out to enclose the fridge. It needs 31" deep + 1/2 -1" for cords and air. Call it 32". 32 -20 1/2 existing - 4/12 wall depth = 7" deep space plus another 4 1/2 to enclose the bump-out/ That takes up 11 1/2 -12 inches out of the laundry. Even if you turn the studs, you still use up 9 1/2 -10 inches in the laundry.

Also it doesn't look like the laundry from the door to the back wall is as deep as the kitchen wall is long. It looks as if the it maybe 36-48 inches deep. That means the bumpout has to fit in a space without running into the washer dryer.

S_C_F, I found a picture of what your fridge might look like beside the closet, but yours would have the door trim up against in on the left side, and the wall would be the same depth on both sides:

Swiss Chard:

i have followed your post from 2014 concerning your cabs and this one. From pictures in both posts, it is obvious to me that you will never be able to just sand out the gouges, popping knots, splitting, and holes in your doors to a smooth surface in your plywood doorslfronts. Even with a great deal of filling medium and a power sander for aggressive sanding in filled spots, achieving a suitable finish on the cabinets for painting is questionable because the fronts/doors are in bad shape. The plywood itself cannot be aggressively sanded.

I have thought about what follows and have hesitated for days, but here goes. Thirty-five years ago after a year of marriage with a baby on the way, I realized that the strong person I married had, in many ways, control/power issues which led him more often than not to simply say "no" just to say "no"; it was a revelation that led to much relationship effort and work. I share that because given what you have shared with us in several threads, these are the questions my young self would have asked me. You say you have some money ($4,000) to improve the kitchen IF your husband will contribute half; and it seems as if the kitchen is your domain since DH contaminates your half of the sink with food you are allergic to. Does your husband respect your input and wishes? Does he appreciate how important having a functional "nice" (not fancy) kitchen is to you? Is putting up road blocks (like labeling the removal of the obviously damaged cabinetry "wasteful") his way of exercising power and control? I certainly do not expect an answer to these questions; I pose them because improving this kitchen is obviously important to you; it does not seem as important to DH. The disconnect seems to be the bigger obstacle than what you should do to improve the kitchen. I hope posters have given you information, ideas and, if needed, ammunition for forward motion. You are not being unreasonable in wanting an improved kitchen!

If DH insists on keeping the cabinets and you agree, just keeping the boxes and having new furniture grade plywood fronts/doors cut will not be very expensive. You will just use the existing doors/fronts for the templates. This will give you a much better result and be easier to finish with less effort than trying to do something acceptable to what exists. I think you and DH could DIY install the fronts/doors with a lot of research and YouTube tutorials. You would still have to fill/sand the visible damaged outside parts of the boxes before painting, but it will be a better result and easier job than what you are proposing to do by just sanding everything. Painting or staining/varnishing the insides of the cabinets would also help improve the final result.

You have gotten some great ideas in previous replies that I sincerely hope will work for you. Please share pictures and details as you move forward. Your journey will be inspirational to all of us and especially those who face budget, existing house layout, and resale constraints. Best wishes for a kitchen you enjoy!

Two questions: Could you please fill out the dimensions that Buehl asked about upthread? Do you have an Ikea nearby, making their cabinets a viable option?

I think I just blew up the budget. :-) Stick with me, though. This plan would give you a third bedroom in addition to a kitchen that would be pleasant to work in. (The kitchen layout could use some fine tuning, but it's a start.) This is a plan that would give you much better return on your resale. Most people are going to want three bedrooms. Even if they don't have kids, they want a guest room, office, storage, den, craft area, etc. You'll attract many more buyers with a 3 bedroom than a two bedroom. The problem was your laundry was hogging that space. So, I moved it. : )

The new entry door could go where your current kitchen window is located. (It might still need a new header.) I walled in the door to the laundry, and put a new header and doorway into what becomes the third bedroom (current laundry.) Since there's already a header for the back door, it would be smaller potatoes to put a window in the back door's location, which would be lovely over the stove. Code will likely tell you it needs to be a non-opening, inoperable window. There are creative ways to patch in the siding if what you used is no longer available. You'll also have some pieces left over from cutting out the new doorway that could be reused.

The kitchen sink and DW go in front of your current doorway to the dining room, turning that into a pass through. A new doorway has been cut into the dining room (another header necessary.) Some shallow shelves can be put on the wall by the full glass door.

The laundry gets a corner of the kitchen, stackable machines required (Craigslist?) Oh, and I moved the water heater. (Give your DH a big hug, he's going to need it after all these switcharoo ideas!)

You'll definitely need kitchen drawers in this plan in order to maximize the storage space. You could do shelves in the pass through for dishes, mixing bowls, etc, if desired. Is the dining room big enough to do a breakfast bar on the back side of the sink?

Galley kitchens with Glass Doors at one End

Example of pass through shelves:

Pictures of Windows Over Stoves

Remember I said that some houses need an injection of life giving charm [and functionality]? Something like this is what your place could use, both for you now, and for your future buyers.

This project is beginning to feel too overwhelming, and yet, it can't be broken down into smaller mini projects yet because the whole design must be planned out before breaking things down into smaller sub projects.

A few thoughts, now that I'm caught up on all the new posts:

1. You can count on the house throwing curveballs and unpleasant and unforseen things if we do open up any wall or remove any cabinet in this house.

2. Such unforseen and unpleasant adventures will cause the budget to increase.

3. I don't know how I feel about recessing the wall back into the laundryroom because that will take away space I'm currently using in the laundry room; a chest freezer is sitting there and we were planning on getting a bigger chest freezer. Also, bumping the wall into the LR will probably make using the space in the LR more difficult and less practical. I almost feel like I need to consult a professional, but then that would drive up costs.

Our laundry layout is like this:

Washer | Dryer | Chest Freezer [] hot water heater closet

[] is the wall separating LR from kitchen

Between the washer, dryer, and chest freezer, all the space is used up and nothing else can fit against that wall, and no room for bump-out wall unless the bump-out wall happens in front of the chest freezer...

4. Can a chest freezer go in a garden shed? How much more energy would it use in a non-air conditioned environment that gets very hot in summer? If I were able to remove that chest freezer and put it somewhere else, we could bump out the wall for the fridge and then put a shelf in the corner of the LR to the left of the bump-out wall. I see it's time to post a drawing of my LR.

5. Too late for stackable washer/dryer; we recently bought a non-stackable washer/dryer set by Speed Queen and I'm happy with them and couldn't imagine putting DH through yet another swap out.

Would it be possible to move your forever house plan up a couple of years? Grit your teeth over this one, save your money for 3 more years and sell it? In the space you have, the options are too limited on that budget. Old houses always have problems you can't anticipate. The only thing you can plan on is an unforeseen glitch that sucks money and time.

Coat of paint on these cabinets. Portable dishwasher. Time to get used to the price of things. Time to learn how to make furniture which will translate into building your own cabinets. Time to watch a lot more youtube and DIY shows on TV. Skip the decorating shows. If the friends who've helped before have projects of their own, volunteer to help. And then help. If you don't know how to do what they want, ask. Let them show you. Don't stand around and watch, get your hands dirty. If they are doing the demo that is the perfect thing to learn how things work. THEN when you go house hunting for the forever home you can see it for what it really is. See what potential problems you'll face. Know before you buy whether you can do it yourself.

It has been over a year and the time has now, finally, arrived. We are ready to move forward on this project. I have re-read the entire thread including the prior ones to refresh my memory. Here is our situation now:

1. No work has been done yet; the kitchen is exactly the same now as it was when I started this thread.
2. We are financially ready.
3. We have an individual lined up to perform the work. He is confident he can do it in a way that will make me happy with the results. This person is one of DH's friends and they have worked on other construction-related projects before together.
4. We have set aside a time period of 11 days for the project; if it went over 11 days it would present difficulties.

Previous to today, DH and I and Buddy all agreed to the following:

• Replace counters with Corian of my choice.
• Replace sink with deeper stainless one.
• Sand, prime, and paint cabinets, including insides, and add a Shaker trim, so that they look like irmaly's cabinets from [this thread[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/help-ugly-plywood-cabinets-dsvw-vd~2526534).
• Replace all cabinet hardware (pulls, slides, etc).
• Install lazy susans in both blind corners.
• Install backplash.
• Fix vent hood so that it actually vents outside the house (a pipe is already installed properly, but the air flow does not use the pipe).
• Install frame around door.
• Install door+door frame for water heater closet.
• Fix walls as needed.
• Install dishwasher next to water heater closet.
• Other minor mods.

But then the plot thickened today when Buddy approached me and suggested what basically amounted to laughablemoments' original ideas for placement of DW+fridge. Buddy says he has inside connections that would allow him to source cheap new cabinets at resale places--he wants to pull out all the cabinets that are there and put in these new cheap ones. I said how will you find a complete set? He said he felt confident he could but I am doubtful... I told Buddy that DH was still strongly opposed to such ideas, and the words of practigal and others tend to reinforce reality. One the one hand, I very very very much want laughablemoments' layout plan, but on the other I worry that such an ambitious project would go over the time-frame allotted while causing cost overruns. We have budgeted $4k-$5k for this and I realize, based on the other threads, that I won't be getting any of that back in resale value--all of it will strictly be for my own benefit. I spend 2-5 hours in the kitchen 6-7 days a week due to a food allergy that requires me to cook nearly everything I eat. I also cook half of DH's meals. DH does not use the kitchen.

And the plot thickens yet again...Buddy thinks that the wall left of the water heater closet where laughablemoments suggested the fridge go is not load-bearing...he will check via attic...crossing my fingers...

Is the kitchen in desperate need of upgrades? Yes. Is the house worth a $4k-$5k kitchen? No. Would it be lipstick on a pig? Yes. Can I live with the kitchen as-is for another 5-7 years? No. We already have over $15k of other renovations sunk into the house as a whole by now (subfloor+floor+walls+septic+more that I can't think of right now).

We have a month before the work must begin. Buddy says he's going to try to massage DH's thinking...I am having doubts...