Each region of the country is a little different.. From wasted amounts of dollars in north east, I can tell you, that HTs, floribundas, grandiflorias, etc.. just do not hack it year after year.. Sure with deeply buried grafts and some winter covering, they will last longer, but after trying dozens of these varieties, I found one that did OK in my zone and that was Sunset Celebration, that would typically have around 6 inches of cane left, it did very well for 4-5 years and wasnt a complete blackspot disaster as well. Granted I havnt tried every variety, but where I had them was basically in front of the house at the time, I just wanted lower bushes becuase the windows were not high there. No worries there as they never got above 4-5 feet max in any giving year. I tried alot of the popular ones, ala Oklohoma, Mr Lincoln, Double Delight, Sunset Celebration, Christinan Dior, I cant really remember all of them now, Oh I know I had a Queen Elizabeth in there as well. I tried alot more including stuff like Victorian Spice. But I couldnt picture not buying repeat flowering varieties at the time.. I pictured dozens of blooms throughout the season. I spend hundreds of dollars on these.. none of them lasted more than 4-5 years really. Then I discovered gardenweb, I also relized that my garden season is pretty short, mid june to late august. A OGR rose that blooms for 4-6 weeks can be a third of my season. Alot of these also are highly fragrant, BS resistand and hardy. I basically order 4-5 hardies now and a couple of moderns a year or remonont ones that I try to keep alive. Even though I had very good success with Austins in my zone 5a (close to 4b garden) , they hated my move to my new house, I lost alot of these for some reason.. even though I didnt lose a one of my OGR's the austins after transplant just shrivled and died on me, except for the hardiest varieties, they all appears to have survived in thier pots covered over winter, but I guess they just didnt like it. Bucks did nothing for me, I tried over a dozen of these that died as well.. The one caveat is I didnt try some of the hardiest ones like applejack or quiteness, basically becuase I had two dozen austins at the time , alot were already pink or pink blends and I didnt see room on adding these. I tried all of the blends that looked nice to my eye, and they all died, winter sunset, prarie sunrise, harvest, honeysweet... etc.. none of them made it here. Its up to you, but to me, plant where you live, if your willing to take the losses, plant what you like. But there are hundreds of different roses that are hardier than HT's that have great form and fragrance, including OGR's and some modern shrubs. Silverkelt

Hi Bart: Thank you for asking for simple terms, then I don't have to spend hours pulling up U. of. Extension research. If your soil sticks to your shoes, then it's clay and high in salt. Magnesium is what makes clay sticky, thus no need to add Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate). Clay soil is fertile and high in salt, no need for chemical fertilizer. What clay soil needs is buffering agent, or organic matter to neutralize the soil pH, and create space between the tight particles. Clay soil can be acidic like my last house, or alkaline like my present house. Organic matter like leaves buffer extremes in pH. Peatmoss, pH 4, glues up with clay because it's a fine particle. I get better result with large chunk organic matter, leaves (acidic at first, but buffers later), pine park (pH 4.5, acidifies longer, since it decomposes very slow). Sandy soil, and loose/loamy soil benefit from manures and chemical fertilizer... salt is not a problem since it can be leached out when the soil is loose with good drainage. I already tested muriate of potash (potassium chloride) ... My husband bought that by mistake instead of sulfate of potash. 3 roses haven't recuperate from the salt-damage and wilting, despite tons of watering. I will never use that stuff, except to de-ice in zone 5a winter. I put that muriate of potash on the new bed of tomatoes ... blossom end rots, had to throw 3/4 tomatoes away. High potassium drives down calcium, resulting in black-fungal on the bottom half of the tomatoes. I prefer unsulfured, blackstrap molasses as soluble fertilizer for clay soil, since it's cheap & low-salt, with NPK 3-1-5, 20% potassium, 17% calcium, 20% iron, and trace elements. That's better than cocoa mulch with NPK 3-1-4, and way-better than horse manure/bedding at NPK 0.7 / 0.3 / 0.6. Bart, your green manures and alfalfa hay are great for clay. Here's an excerpt from the link below "At the end of that first growing season we moved some roots of mint into the bed with the roses. The thinking there was that mint brings a substantial amount of minerals and other nutrients from the sub soil to the top soil because of the it’s deep roots. During the year as the mint grew to around a foot tall we’d cut it back and mulch around the roses with the cut mint. We’re still doing that now, so the roses get fed and we’ve got lots of mint for tea. The routine now is that during the year when the roses are in flower they’re constantly mulched and fed with cut mint, in the winter they’re pruned hard back and mulched with layers of hay." *** From Straw: I think it's clever to use plants like mint to fertilize roses, plus to keep deer away. Nutritional analysis of mint: 9% vitamin A, 2% vitamin C, 2% calcium, 7% iron, and 6% manganese ... the last 2 are much needed in alkaline soil to fix chlorosis. The picture of Summer Samba rose I posted in the other thread with very dark green leaves ... that has tons of clover growing in the pot. Roots of plants secret acid, so the soil where there was decomposed grass, tested less alkaline in red-cabbage juice. The soil with nothing growing on it, is rock-hard and very alkaline. Thank you, Bart, for that great idea about clover, I'm going to order clover seeds, they make a nice carpet around roses. Below is another shot of Summer Samba, bought from RU end of June, you can see the clover growing inside the pot, which I foolishly killed most of them: Here is a link that might be useful: Growing roses without manure This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 18:05

We have very high BS pressure here. Almost all my roses have issues with it. Many are already showing signs this year. CM is middle of the road for it here...not among my best or worst. Probably better to hear what others have to say on resistance than go by my experience since so many roses others find to be very clean are not bs resistant for me.

You might want to check out Grace Rose Farms. They are an operation in SoCal that grow roses specifically for selling to florists as cut flowers. Individuals can also buy from their website, but most of their crop is for florists. I am sure all their varieties do well cut! If you click on a floral arrangement they will list the varieties that come in that bouquet. For instance, their “Brights Bouquet” has Princess Alexandra of Kent, Munstead Wood, Carding Mill, Evelyn, and Princess Charlene of Monaco.