It's a 40 amp 240v circuit, not 80 amp.

That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming. Is it a relatively straightforward project for an electrician to upgrade from 40 amp to 50 amp?

I think it depends on where your panel is and where your appliance will be, and what's in between (finished vs unfinished basement?). I believe the 50 amp wire is also very pricy. Mine was straight forward, but very expensive.

Changing the breaker is no issue, pop the 40s out, 50s in. As Sherri1058 says, depends whether the existing wire can carry a 50 amp circuit, or also must be changed.

>>> Is it a relatively straightforward project for an electrician to upgrade from 40 amp to 50 amp?<<<

As dadoes and Sherri say, maybe, maybe not. MIght want have a look towards the end of this thread where the subject of rewiring for 50 amp was discussed last year.

Okay - well, that thread linked above was interesting. If nothing else it confirmed that I should get the extended warranty on an Electrolux induction range. Of course if I need to rewire for this range I may just go back to running a gas line. This is starting to look like it may be as expensive as that if not more so.

I've looked at the wiring coming out of my electrical panel. Two large wires, one goes to the laundry room (electric dryer) and the other goes toward the kitchen. I can't follow it all the way there due to finished ceiling in lower level but I can't imagine what else I'd have that would use the heavier wire. No window AC or anything like that.

This wire says its SE type R AWG 8. Based on what I find online, that appears to be 50 amp wire.

What is also confusing is that the specs for the range say minimum circuit required 40 amps in one place then in another place it says recommended circuit breaker - 50 amps.

In any case DH has a friend who's an electrician so he's going to talk to him tomorrow and try to get to the bottom of it which maybe isn't possible without having an electrician actually come and look at it. I don't want to create a fire hazard. In the meantime I told my appliance guy to put my order on hold until I get this sorted out.

Well DH usually readily admits lack of knowledge on all things like this. I was surprised he acted like he knew something about this. Interesting to hear that someone who should know thought the same thing.

Whether AWG6 or AWG 8 is acceptable depends on various factors, and this is what licensed electricians are required to know. Else, one can get a copy of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70), or better, the Code Handbook which subsumes the Code, and learn the relevant material oneself.

For an example of one piece of the overall current rating (ampacity) puzzle, one finds from the 2014 Handbook in Table B.310.15(B)(2)(1) for two and three conductor cable at 30C that THHN (among several other types including USE) copper cable is rated for 48 and 68 amperes ampacity for AWGs 8 and 6 respectively. Some derating is often required; if I recall without hunting for it, steady state draw should not exceed 80% of the limit. There can be other derating factors such as temperature. In typical cases, if the circuit is required to handle 40 amps steady state then AWG 8 is OK. If the requirement is 50 amps, then use AWG 6.

For the circuit breaker, follow the directions. A 50A breaker may be used on a 48-amp rated circuit that pulls 40A.

Don't forget that the cable used may be rated for 90C, but the conductors used by the appliance may be rated for a higher temperature, such as 105C. This allows the manufacturer to get away with thinner, lower cost conductors. In such cases the Code requires the connection means between the device cable and the house cable to be rated for the higher temperature operation.

kas

There is another possibility... Several induction cooktops have the ability to de-rate. Basically an Induction Cooktop that at full power can require a 50 amp breaker can be programed to never exceed 40 amps. Check the Install and Care and Use manuals to see if your cooktop offers that capability.

Glad we're talking to an electrician......in spite of all my research I didn't realize induction electrical requirements could be so much different than the current electric range. Live and learn.....

Actually, induction electrical requirements are no different than for any other kind of stove.

Many higher end stoves today have all sorts of features that bump up the power needs and therefore require a circuit with larger capacity than older ranges. Think about stoves with two ovens, with warming drawers and high-power convection elements in the oven, and stovetops with bigger and more powerful burners than previously. Those stoves will spec a 50 amp breaker (which could mean a possible need to upgrade the cable from the panel to the outlet.)

But if 40 amp is the spec -- as it is for the Elux freestanding that you said you were considering in another thread -- you should be fine with the existing breaker and and 8 gauge wire.

It is not uncommon to see a "spec" for 40 amps but a "recommendation" 50 amps. IME, that has been going on since the turn of the century. It is mostly a "belt and suspenders" kind of thing. The recommendations is partly for the situations that Kaseki was talking about and partly it is to avoid the possible chance of the annoyance of tripping a breaker in the middle of a massive, day long Thanksgiving cooking session when the the oven burners have been running full blast for hours, the warming drawer has been on max, and all stovetop burners at or near max. Note that I said it was only a "possible annoyance. . ."

A different concern is whether your existing range uses a three connector 40 amp sockets (old style) or one of the 4-connector sockets (current type for the last decade or so. Current electric stoves (including induction ranges) can use either the old-style three-prong plug or a the 4-prong plug, However, as was also discussed in the previous linked discussion, upgrading from a 3 wire cable to a 4 wire cable may avoid possible problems.

Something else to discuss with the electrician friend.

What kind of possible problems with 3 prong vs 4 prong?

It is desirable that the grounding conductor not use the neutral conductor. In some appliances there is no need for a neutral and the third wire is for ground. In more ancient appliances, there was no ground; the neutral was grounded back at the fuse box. This could be a hazard under some combination of conditions.

Neither my Kenmore or the replacement Frigidaire induction cooktops were supplied with plugs. They were to be hard wired to their supply wiring in a circuit box. This was also true of my Wolf double wall oven. This may relate to the units' power conductor temperature spec being too high for normal plugs, or for some other reason that UL came up with that I've forgotten. (Plugs and receptacles are permitted in conformance to NFPA 70 422.16(B)(3).)

Note that wire nuts are typically rated for 105C so they can be used, but are a real pain at AWG 6 size. I suggest using a Greaves PBS2 or similar inline splice that uses set screws to retain the conductors. You will thank yourself if the unit has to be disconnected and reconnected or replaced.

Greaves inline splice example

kas

>>>"What kind of possible problems with 3 prong vs 4 prong?"<<<

I may have unduly alarmed you.

Also, I had the wrong thread in mind. It was a different one that the one I linked to. Cannot find the right one at the moment --- end of a long day that is making me feel senile. :>)

Anyway, if my memory is not completely gone, I recall it as last year in a thread about some weird error messages that were being displayed on a GE stove with a three prong connector. Jakvis and Kas discussed adding a separate ground wire in a couple of cases where that fixed a similar problem. (Basically, the ground and neutral are combined in a three prong set-up where they are separated in a 4-wire cable. Once in a while, the grounds needs to be separated. )

Seemed like a good reason to replace an older three-wire 240v line with a four-wire one IF it was easy to do and you were remodeling anyway. However, with you having the wire running through a finished ceiling, it may be a lot $$$ and trouble, and may be not be worth worrying about. (Oh, and FWIW, the poster with the GE stove had warranty service which decided to replace a couple of internal connectors in the stove and that fixed the problem.)

Got some piecemeal info from a couple electricians by phone today. I don't think 40 amp would cut it for me to use the range the way I'd want. And I'm going to assume I have 40 amp wiring if I have 40 amp breaker. So will have an electrician out to estimate wiring upgrade and plumber to estimate gas line and then re-decide on new range.

We had to make that decision a few years ago at another house. We went with induction.

There were long debates here several years ago on the relative merits of induction vs. gas for cooktops. Induction is undoubtedly safer, while gas is undoubtedly more reliable long-term when designed with minimal electronics. It is much easier to get induction to melt chocolate at barely warm levels than gas when the gas burner is expected to also roast peppers at two feet. Induction is undoubtedly easier to clean than gas. Induction is undoubtedly more fragile than gas if one likes to throw cast iron pans about, but will look new much longer. Induction will usually not have red knobs.

I think that in most cases, if the route between kitchen cabinet base to electrical or gas line access is inconvenient to access (e.g., no basement is available), threading a 6-3 w/G cable will be easier than threading a gas pipe along the same route. This might depend on whether gas line tubing is allowed or steel pipe is mandated (as I suspect; I don't have any interior gas lines). A flexible underground gas line routed around the house to where it might transition to pipe to access the kitchen may simplify the project if allowed.

Some tailored search terms may yield the earlier more extensive comments.

Induction will usually not have red knobs.

Geez kaseki, warn me next time. I just spit my coffee out at the screen laughing.

(The pepper comment got a smile from me.)

There's a basement, partly unfinished with less than 10 feet of finished ceiling they have to go above - that area looks pretty open and accessible.

I've had gas all my life and love it though I have been looking forward to induction cooking adventures. But I have come to the conclusion a gas range would probably be less trouble prone and have a greater chance of longevity. That is important to me.

We'll see what happens - greatly appreciate all your help and advice.

Making progress - have a couple gas line estimates scheduled and our electrician friend will come out and provide a bid on the electrical when he returns from vacation next week. Also get to see about converting 15 year old electric water heater to gas at the same time and get my questionable washing machine shut-off valves replaced. This has morphed into something beyond a new range.....

Sorry, cpartist. At least you missed the keyboard.

If you put in gas, you'll need a 120v circuit to plug into.

Got one back there but now that you mention it, I wonder if it's in the right place. Will check that on the two gas ranges I'm considering

Changing from a 3 wire to 4 wire that otherwise has the correct capacity requires only the addition of a 10g wire run and a new receptacle.

I figure if I'm going to have all the other electrical work done I'll get the 4 prong as well.

Sorry, Dan. Running a single wire is not code. All 4 wires have to be run together in the same cable. In this case it would mean replacing the wiring already in place.

I am so glad that I moved my cooktop into the area that has a wall instead of the island (can easily run wiring) because I am pretty sure I would have forgotten to run conduit under my concrete floor and would have been scrambling to figure out how to get large enough / enough current over to the island. (breathes small sigh of relief)

Single wire in its own conduit would be code...and less expensive. Like $14/25ft. $8 for a 50A 4 wire receptacle. $15 for 50 feet of solid 10 AWG green solid copper wire. $2 for straps. Your cost for a 50' run is about $50.

Just intalled Ge Cafe 36inches- the electrician installed a 60 amp instead of 50 amp, could that cause a problem?

From an electrical code point of view, as long as the wiring conductors (which are what are being protected by a breaker) are rated for 60 amperes under the existing conditions, then there is no problem. If not, then a 50A breaker should be used.

UL (or CE or whoever) may put a breaker ampacity limit on the electrical feed for the purpose of appliance safety. If 50A is specified in the installation guide, rather than suggested, or recommended or listed as a minimum, then from a appliance safety point of view a 50A breaker should be installed.

This is a straightforward change, if needed, by the electrician; the cable need not be changed.