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bszjjj

crack in new wood countertops- is this normal??

bszjjj
8 years ago

We just had our kitchen done and the builder installed sealed walnut wooden countertops. They are beautiful and cost A LOT- so we were a little disheartened to find an area that looked like a crack had been filled with some type of material that blends. The builder is trying to tell us it is a natural Knot in the wood but it does not look that way to us and looks nothing like the pictures he is sending us to show us natural markings in the wood to tell us this is normal. We paid a lot of money for these tops so are feeling frustrated and even more frustrated by his response. Is it normal for brand new sealed wooden countertops to have areas with a crack that would have to be filled in?? See photo below- line down middle does not look like it is natural part of wood- wondering if this is normal practice to seal cracks on new tops as we have never had wooden countertops.


Comments (35)

  • Navy Momma
    8 years ago

    That looks like a knot that was filled with an epoxy resin. IMO that is something that comes with the territory of solid wood. However it probably should have been shown to you prior for your OK.

  • romy718
    8 years ago

    Would you put a coin or something next to the crack so we can see the size of it?

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  • Kippy
    8 years ago

    That is what I would expect out of a knot. If you look at the wood grain you can see that it is a naturally occurring knot and not a hole that was repaired..not that a knot will not fall out and leave hole

  • Carrie B
    8 years ago

    Maybe it's a matter of personal preference, but I would LOVE a natural knot like that if I were to get wood counters.

  • jellytoast
    8 years ago

    Can you please post a picture from a bit further back?

  • cookncarpenter
    8 years ago

    A beautiful knot like that, (including the filled crack) is what you paid for when you decided on real wood vs some artificial material.

    Wood is a natural material, expect and embrace it's characteristics, or get boring laminate...

  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    Perfectly fine and natural. When you buy a natural material, you have to expect some "imperfections". Notice I used the word imperfections in quotations.

  • cat_mom
    8 years ago

    It's a knot. We have similar filled knots in our custom solid walnut DR table.

  • Fori
    8 years ago

    It's funny that I don't have any significant knots like that in my cabinets though. I think the degree of knotting (new term?) depends on the grade of wood used; some people like the knots, some don't. Usually that is specified beforehand.

    I like your knot, but I would not be happy to have it by the sink like that. No reason. Just feels wrong.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I wouldn't want any cracks on a countertop. How are you going to keep it clean?

  • bszjjj
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    let me clarify- I think the actual knot looks great and gives the wood a natural look, which is my preference. What I am not so fond of is the filling that appears very unnatural. We have tried to discuss this with builder but he is unapproachable about anything that is not completely agreeable to him. We paid a great deal for the tops and would have liked to have explained to me why this was filled- or asked me if I wanted it filled prior to doing this- if that was an option. At first he just got irate when brought up to him that it's a knot and we did not know what we were talking about, then after another discussion acknowledging that he had filled it. But with no explanation, which has been fairly typical throughout our job, very opinionated and pushy, I think he does not care whose kitchen/house it is just wants things done the way he would do them. So ultimately I am wondering [since we have been unable to have a calm discussion with him and ask any questions]: 1- is this common practice to fill a knot in wood like this, 2- does anyone know if the knot was not filled in would it create ongoing problems [if not my preference- if asked- would have been to leave it as is], 3- when knots are filled is there not a way to smooth it out so it looks more natural as if it was part of the knot and not a filler

    I appreciate all of the feedback. I would post other pics as requested to show overall look and size [it's approximately a 2 inch space that is filled in] but this is not my primary residence so have not been there since the weekend. My kitchen overall looks great, unfortunately this person has been difficult to interact with surrounding a number of issues throughout project and I am just trying to get some factual information. When you spend a great deal of money on something I think it's your prerogative to ask questions and want to feel satisfied with what you get.

  • Carrie B
    8 years ago

    I'm sorry you're having a hard time having a conversation w/ your contractor. That is troubling.

    I would think that filling any crevices in a counter would be standard and desirable. Otherwise, you'd have the perfect area for crumbs and spills to accumulate w/o an easy way to clean them - perfect breeding ground for all kinds of things you wouldn't want in a counter. I'd be upset if it wasn't filled. Being filled makes the counter smooth on top - which is what you want in a kitchen counter.

  • rjs5134
    8 years ago

    I installed 1,200sf. of oak flooring with many knots that looked very similar. I filled all(almost all) with epoxy prior to polyurethane. Looks very natural and attractive to me. I love the knots. Many contractors(craftsman) have difficult personalities. It keeps people "off-guard" and less likely to push issues. If this were in my house I would ask for it to be filled and sealed so that I could not feel it when rubbing my fingers across to avoid cracks for bacteria and crumbs. Post overall pics, would love to see the whole job.

  • nosoccermom
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Is it smooth or do you still feel the crack? There are gazillions of instructions on how to fill cracks/knot holes, and it sounds like it's an art, so you don't just throw some black epoxy on there.

    I'd post on the woodworking board, and I'd also talk to some woodworking experts, e.g. someone who makes custom walnut counters or live edge tables on how to properly fill cracks.

    http://littlebranchfarm.com/natural-wood-countertops/


  • rwiegand
    8 years ago

    The knot and resulting crack are completely normal and natural features of the wood. You should be able to fill it so that it is flat and smooth, but ongoing seasonal movement of the wood may push the filler out. Yes, it is common practice to include them and fill them with epoxy. Whether you like it or not and whether it matches your specifications is, of course, a different question

    Depending on what I was building I might highlight such a knot as a feature, or select and cut boards to get rid of it. The best figure commonly is around knots, crotches, etc. If you specified clear heartwood then you didn't get what you paid for-- there's a lot more waste in eliminating such "features".

    George Nakashima was the master of creating beauty from defects in the wood.


  • leela4
    8 years ago

    I love everything I've ever seen that George Nakashima built. (No help to the OP, I realize.)

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    You tell customers that marble countertops etch and they complain when it does. You tell customers that Cambria samples don't match slabs and when they don't they complain when it doesn't. You tell customers that wood grows on trees and cracks and they complain when it does.

    You talk, you have them read and sign and no matter what you do/say/have them sign/ they continue to believe in fantasy.

    Customers, what would you do if you were a contractor?

  • bszjjj
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    sorry that you have obviously had some bad experiences with customers but you are making a lot of assumptions. Other than ordering wood counter tops and choosing a color my contractor didn't tell me anything else specifically about them. And when we saw the area that looked different than other spots and like it was filled- that he did not tell us anything about- when my husband questioned him about what appeared to be a crack he got defensive and freaked out. He didn't provide me with any information about the wood beforehand or even once installed- I signed a contract but it didn't say anything about that. As a matter of fact I emailed him several times asking about caring for the wood and never got a response to that either. I am not living in a "fantasy" world- I'm actually pretty easy to work with, but if I spend a bunch of money on something I think I have a right to ask questions and have high expectations. If our contractor had simply explained what many other people on here have done when asked instead of freaking out and telling my husband he wasn't a "wood expert" I would have been able to get the info from him and felt comfortable with what we have- but unfortunately that is not what happened. Maybe before you jump all over people you should know the full story and not make assumptions based on experiences you have had. This is one of several incidents that have happened during this experience- if I were a contractor I would communicate to and listen to my clients which is not what my experience has been with this person on numerous occasions.

  • nosoccermom
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rwiegand is right. As a consumer, there are certain things I just assume for a decent job. The problem arises when there's disagreement as to what a reasonable person would expect to be a reasonable job.

    I have learned to spell out my expectations more, e.g. when you redo my hardwood floors, I expect that there aren't sanding machine swirls all over. I did not expect, however, to have to spell out that there shouldn't be neat puncture holes about 8 inches up all around the wall perimeter because whatever nail punching tool hits the wall.

    If in doubt, spell out as much as possible. Even then, there'll be times when one side will be at a loss of words by what someone else "seems to have assumed."

  • PRO
    Linda Mayo
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It is normal standard practice to fill holes. Wood naturally has knots. The amount you paid has a bearing on how rustic the wood will be which can vary considerably.

  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    8 years ago

    A knot like that is a little island of contrary grain in the midst of normal grain. As such it will always have contrary movement to the rest of the board. It's end grain, so it checks. We call them checks, to differentiate them from cracks. They were previously filled, but the movement continued and they opened up again. If they are filled again with hard material, and the wood expands next summer, the filler will have no place to go, and additional stresses will be imposed on the surrounding wood. I'm not saying the wood will split, but it will be compressed, so when the wood shrinks back a second time, the checks could open up again.

    If one were to use a softer filler material, the pressure would cause the filler to extrude up out of the gaps.

    I have tried to describe the process at work here in a neutral and objective tone.

    Casey

  • CEFreeman_GW DC/MD Burbs 7b/8a
    8 years ago

    I see what you mean about how it's filled.
    I would be concerned about that due to the normal flux Casey described. Next to a sink? mmmm.
    Perhaps, if you decide to keep it, one of the natural preservatives such as Eco-safe in the crack? (Make certain it doesn't oxidize the wood into a weird color, though.)

    I like the crack/check. I don't like how it was filled, and I don't think it's gonna be a good idea once daily use begins. Hard to say, though, based upon just those close pictures.

    I wonder if there's some type of epoxy that would penetrate the wood fibers while filling the hole? That might not separate? Casey? Does such a thing exist?

    Geeze.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    bszjjj:

    I'm making no assumptions. I can link you to many threads here demonstrating that no matter what contractors do, when materials perform exactly as specified, customers still complain.

    You've got a rustic funky countertop. Get used to it or get out your checkbook and replace it.

  • rwiegand
    8 years ago

    I think both the contractor and OP would be in a better position had the contractor said "I can give you #2 common for $X, select and better for $3X, clear heartwood for $5X, or something with fancy figure for $10X". Then they could have had a conversation about what that means and whether it's worth it, or perhaps created an opportunity for an upsell for the contractor.

    Knots and other "features" are a natural part of wood, but that doesn't mean you have to include them in what you make if you don't want to see them. That's why we have tablesaws.

  • eandhl2
    8 years ago

    I am one who likes knots & checking, wouldn't bother me at all but it looks like not the best job of filling. Though it would be a crumb catcher I would have preferred it left open.

  • nosoccermom
    8 years ago

    "You've got a rustic funky countertop.". The question is whether OP knew that (a) this is what she would get and (b) what exactly that meant.

    And (c) whether the way that crack is filled is the way it should be filled, not to mention (d) whether OP should have had a say in the way it was filled.

  • gardenerlorisc_ia
    8 years ago

    I got the most rustic, knotty, holey piece of wood for my island top and distressed it even more with a hammer and chain hits. Love it. I do use a cutting board when making food items even though I wouldn't need to.

    If you want something perfect don't get a natural surface such as wood or stone, get something manufactured or plastic.

  • zmith
    8 years ago

    Oh, come on! The knot is right by the friggin' sink! The woodworker was not trying to be artsy with a creative placement of a natural wood feature. It's poor judgement and now the contractor wants the client to just "accept it?" Shame on him. It's not what bszjjj was led to believe he/she would be getting, and it shouldn't be accepted.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    Yes, this is Houzz where the contractor/designer/architect/sub/laborer/driver is always wrong and the customer is always right no matter what.

  • User
    8 years ago

    Yes, it's NORMAL. And no, the OP wasn't lied to about anything. The OP wasn't told anything. The contractor doesn't seem to know anything to pass along to the OP. It was up to the customer to do the due diligence on such an expensive central feature of a project.

    Having expectations that do not align with what was produced is a a problem that that the customer owns if those expectations are not codified into the order or contract. Especially since what was produced pretty much is the norm.

  • bszjjj
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I have renovated a basement, a kitchen [years ago prior to this], and 2 major porch renovations over the years and can honestly say I have NEVER had issues with the people I am working with. So I am sorry if the contractors getting on here have had issues with customers but you are off on this one. I am not a "wood expert" nor ever claimed to be- so when we have something that looks like it has been filled on a top that we spent close to $5000 on I think we have every right to ask questions. If the person we were working with had simply explained this is normal and why he did it without getting incredibly defensive and practically screaming at my husband this would not have been an issue- I would not have had to come on here to get information. I appreciate the feedback [most of it!] I have received on here as I was able to find out that it is not abnormal for someone to fill a crack like that. I did not come on here to bash the person I worked with- I will give credit where it's due and say that my kitchen overall looks great and I am pleased with it- but he was in fact very difficult to work with and I would not use this person again or recommend him to anyone I know. If you try push people to do additional work they have NO interest in doing, and are unable to deal with any type of questions or disagreements, as was my experience here, then being in a customer driven business is probably not the place for you, just saying.

  • User
    8 years ago

    If it helps at all, I think it looks beautiful. I love using natural materials like that, and a certain amount of imperfections makes it clear it's really natural, not a man-made imitation. As long as it's smooth to the touch, I'd treasure it.

  • just_janni
    8 years ago

    I too think it looks beautiful - I question the placement (so close to the sink for cleaning / indent that is part of the filling...) and it may have been better further from the sink.... Like with granite or any other material that has this kind of variation - seeing the actual piece, and signing off on the "placement" of that variation would seem to be a good idea. And if the homeowner doesn't suggest it (and truly - they are the less experienced party here) the fabricator should...

  • Vith
    8 years ago

    It is just clear epoxy in the crack. This is the finishing material used for wood countertops it is called bar top epoxy. If you want the crack filled completely they just need to put more material over the knot.

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