New Dawn isn't hardy enough for zone 4.

Kelly if I was going to try a rose in that situation. I'd go with Austin's Albrighton Rambler but don't ask me why (it's complicated). I know it would be tall for me. I'm guessing 9 to 10ft. It repeats thou that may depend on how much or little sun it gets. Even if it does repeat it will most likely take a couple years to do so. It listed as very hardy. Its native climate lies on a more northern latitude and has a lot of cloudy rainy weather. But I have no idea if this would work.

i do have roses that barely get 5 hours of direct sun and they do fine. They just bloom a little less.

I think you may want to look at the old Ayrshire Ramblers -- no repeat-bloom, but where you're hoping to put a rose doesn't leave much room to be picky.

:-)

~Christopher

The most shade tolerant climber I know is species Setigera. I have seen it growing and blooming in almost total shade from deciduous trees. Captain Samuel Holland grows and blooms well for me on the north side of a large oak tree. I'd be very careful to get something that is going to be very hardy, since the strain of the shade and the climate will be too much for most roses.

mad_gallica -- Have you ever tried Ayrshires? I've been reading up on them for possible use at my cemetery project. I keep seeing two traits come up -- 1) shade tolerance, and 2) very cold-hardy. I haven't gotten any yet because I am still not sure where I'd use them, but they're in my head. I agree about the Setigeras.

:-)

~Christopher

I've (tried to) grow R. arvensis. It even bloomed one year. It hasn't died yet, but has a lot of winterkill every year, and is generally a disappointment.

Two roses come to mind as very shade tolerant, but don't know if they'd be hardy for you in zone 4. The stone wall may help protect & warm them in Winter when the trees are bare. Both have been discussed on the forum. One that's bushy but can be encouraged to climb is Lyda -https://www.roguevalleyroses.com/rose/lyda-rose

The other is Penny Lane, a true climber - http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.18159.0&tab=1 & http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1654277/another-shade-tolerant-rose-penny-lane?n=11 

Mad_gallica, I have not heard of Ayrshires. I am having a difficult time locating them. Vasue, penny lane looks devine and is on sale at heirloom for $21! Maybe I will plant one at the top of the wall to fall down it and one at the bottom of another variety....

Thank you!!

Kelly - HMF has a page quoting descriptions of Ayrshire roses. It is a type of rose, not an individual rose. In the descriptions are several mentions of individual rose names - just look those up.

Here is the link:

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/gl.php?n=131

American Pillar does just fine despite tree root competition and shade in my garden--it is often recommended for zone 4. I just moved it to see how long it takes to eat a chain link fence in full sun.

Kelly, Penny Lane is only rated to zone 5b and given its parentage, I can't see it being hardy enough to have canes survive in zone 4, let alone zone 4 with complications. American Pillar did grow for me when I lived in zone 4; it just lost its canes every blasted year down to the snow line and so I rarely saw blooms higher than 2 ft. Neither is likely to really create the show you're looking for if they have to regrow their height every spring. Zone 4 is tough for climbers. I have a limited list of successes from my years in that zone, but none that would tolerate that much shade.

Were I you, I'd heed Mad Gallica's suggestion and try the R. setigera, also known as Prairie Rose. You can get it from High Country Roses: http://www.highcountryroses.com/species/rosa-setigera-prairie-rose

A lot will depend on just how much sun reaches some of the rose. Just out of curiosity have you ever seen this post by Celeste it isn't related to your current question but has other helpful information. Ridiculously Healthy Roses here in zone 4

Hi, Patty. Yes, I frequently go back to that post. I actually have rosarium uetersen, quietness and heaven on earth on order after seeing how well they seem to be doing for Celeste. I wish she would post more updates but beleive she has moved on to daylilies. ...

Why wouldn't new dawn be Hardy enough? It is listed as zone 4 on heirloom....

What about Blushing Lucy? I grow one facing north, in some warmer zones it repeats, but here in zone 6a, it's a once bloomer. I love New Dawn, because it repeats ( 1 of my 3 New Dawns repeats). There are not many climbers can repeats in a colder zone. Polar Joy is very very hardy, and it has long canes, 7-8' , not sure if you are looking for a tall climber or a short one. Polar Joy repeats fast like a KO.

Kelly, you can read all about the Ayrshire Ramblers in the book, Climbing Roses of the World, by Charles Quest-Ritson, Ch. 4, p 45. (Timber Press 2003) It is a fairly recent book, so your library ought to have it or be able to get it for you. I have several of them and I like them very much, even though the blooming period is quite short. The canes are long and flexible, as said above, and the foliage is a nice color of green and disease free for me. They fell out of favor with the introduction of Wicherana and multiflora ramblers. I think more breeding could be done with them. They are as hardy or hardier than the Kordesii, and have a much more graceful growth habit.

Kelly, years ago I read on these forums that someone in zone 4 grew New Dawn on a trellis. Each year, she took it off of the trellis, layed it down on the ground with some sticks of Juicy Fruit to keep mice away, covered it with straw and cardboard and then blankets and rocks to hold it all down. She got cane survival that way. Otherwise, it's just a big thorny shrub rose in zone 4. I have wanted to grow it for years, but I am just not that motivated. Besides that, Help Me Find says she blooms best on old wood.

This year I purchased 2-A Shropshire Lad own root from Heirloom Roses, and 1- The Generous Gardener own root from DAR. I expect them to be 4 feet tall and winter kill to the ground each year.. I also purchased 3 Crown Princess Margareta own root from DAR. I had these before and they were pretty cane hardy. I will have these where I get the most snow cover and I plan on taking these off of a low trellis and covering them with a garden quilt and possibly cardboard. I think the canes are a little more pliable than some other Austins, so this may work. CPM is a beauty in zone 4... Just don't try to keep her small like I did when I had her... She just wants to grow big!

Rebecca

p.s. CPM is listed as a Climber for shady positions in the DAR catalog. I don't know how far I would take that up North, but I am going to have her in afternoon shade. When I had her before, she got blasted with mid-day sun by a concrete patio. It bleached those orange blossoms to white around the edges really quickly. I much prefer the cooler temps colors like in the photo below.

Wow, Cynthia! ! Gorgeous! Thank you soo much for the info!!

Cynthia, I want to stroll through your garden and smother my face in your roses!!! ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!! I especially love the last photo... Good grief, woman, those roses are all made to go together. Very lovely!!

After all the CPM talk, I am going to grow her again against a fence in my back yard that gets lots of snow cover and let her sprawl!! 3 CPM's are on order for me. :)

You might want to look into Polestar. This is one tough hardy rose.....

Quadra is beautiful and very hardy.

I have quadra on order for full sun, any idea how it would do in the shade? ?

I have seen several explorers grown in rather shady areas.

One was an 8' tall John Cabot in part shade.

John Davis can wow you with its spring flush with 4-5 hrs of sun...

Both are Hybrid Kordesii, so is Quadra. So, it would probably tolerate it....

I thought of another suggestion -- what about 'Alba Semi-plena' or one of the other white Albas?

:-)

~Christopher

Glad you liked the photos, and thanks for the lovely complement Rebecca. Most years I look at photos like that and wish my roses looked that good (smile), but this year they might actually do something similar for a change, assuming we get some rain.

Quadra is truly outstanding is sun and laughs off the cold, and it's good to hear from TrueBlue that the odds are good in the part shade. My John Cabot and Alex MacKenzie are both Explorers and do fine in the shade, though obviously I don't know if they'd do better in sun. My Quadra here is right at the house corner before the shady area starts, but it's obviously quite happy in the sun and even if it's not as lush in the part sun would probably do reasonably well. Again, he's "only" about 8' tall here, but makes plenty of a statement to fill the arch. He's not a floppy climber over an arch like CPM would be though.

Cynthia

Cynthia my Quadra is in the sunniest part of my yard, around 6 hours. Thought it has to fight for sun with a clematis! Nothing close to yours. This year it will its 4th. Hopefully it will show some chutzpah this year!

On the other hand, I grow a semi-plena in part shade. It is around 7' feet tall, flowers for 2-3 weeks, has lovely greyish leaves, beautiful vase shaped form and is covered with hips in fall and even now, as we're speaking....