I enjoy watching "Love Actually" whenever it comes on TV but I do think Natalie wouldn't use the F word in her own home, as she does when she can't find her coat. Swear words were never used in the homes I lived in although my grandfather who worked in Smithfield Meat Market must have known a few!

Thanks. I am sure I will have more queries, as these series unfold.

Vee, I looked up the word "knacker" in my old Webster's Dictionary. It said that a knacker is a special butcher of horse meat, the purpose being to prepare meals for dogs. So, I get the connection between a "knacker" and being "knackered." But then, you knew this, of course....

dodgy means of low quality, or a dubious scheme. As in the con man was selling shares in a dodgy gold mine. Related word, "Cowboy" it means someone who doesn't know what they are doing. As in, "the builders were cowboys and used dodgy materials and now the roof leaks." The Brits laughed when Bush wore cowboy boots.

Knackered means completely worn out. When my kids were in British schools, "bloody" was a word that would get them in trouble for swearing. And since it was never heard in our American household, my daughter thought it was the worst word around until she was super frustrated yelled "Bloody" and I cracked up.

I'll make this response to the word 'cowboy' that Sigrid mentioned. It's true that it is used as an insult by some people, usually ignorant ones who don't know what a real cowboy does. A person who affects to wear cowboy boots as a fashion statement or a cowboy hat pretending to be a cowboy (or cowgirl), probably deserves to be sneered at, but those who wear these things as part of the standard gear for their job of cowboying don't deserve the derogatory label of 'not knowing what they are doing'. They do know and being a cowboy is an admired, honorable profession in most places where the work they do is necessary. All those people who like to revile cowboys ought to try to do the work of a cowboy. They might change their minds about casting aspersions on the skills of cowboys.

In several of the western U.S. states, most particularly in the cattle ranching states, being called a 'cowboy' as an insult by silly twits, who don't know what they are talking about, is usually turned on the insulters by cheerfully accepting the epithet. Of course the insulters probably think the cowboys are so dumb they don't know they are being insulted. Actually, they know but choose to ignore it. It's the insult slingers who don't realize they are the dumb ones. The same thing is done by the Cajuns of Louisiana: they've embraced the word 'Cajun' once considered a slur. They call themselves Cajuns (short for Acadians) and it has taken the sting out of the pejorative.

Frieda, you have heard the expression "All hat and no cowboy"?

Yep, Carolyn. Also "All boots and no sh*t." ;-)

" All fur coat and no knickers!"

Here's another expression that has somehow passed me by: "....then it's Molly bar the door...." I never heard this until about a decade ago. It sounds Irish-American. What is it's exact meaning?

Mary, I've always heard it as "Katie/Katy, bar the door." I remember it from the James Whitcomb Riley dialect poem, "When Lide Married Him" (published in 1894):

When Lide married him--w'y, she had to jes dee-fy
The whole poppilation!--But she never bat' an eye!
Her parents begged, and threatened --she must give him up--that he
Wuz jes "a common drunkard!"--And he wuz, appearantly.
Swore they'd chase him off the place
Ef he ever showed his face
Long after she'd eloped with him and married him fer shore!
When Lide married him, it wuz "Katy, bar the door!"

I think it generally means 'watch out, there's gonna be trouble'. A warning.

Edited to add: After digging a bit, I learned that it's thought that JWR probably took the expression from a Scottish folksong, "Get Up and Bar the Door." There are other theories, as well, but the meaning always seems to be impending trouble and precautions should be made. For some reason, it's an expression used mostly in the U.S. but may not have originated here.

I have also heard "Katie bar the door" and I've mostly heard it in the context of all heck's about to break loose - as in when tickets go on sale for a popular concert or stores open on Black Friday.

Donna

OK, what's a "punter"?

A punter is usually a gambler but the term can be stretched to mean a person engaging in an activity, a customer for various services, such as a prostitutes even!

Or it could simply mean a person who rows/paddles/poles a flat bottomed boat.

I'm surprised that Ann's definition of the word isn't in use in the USA.

Vee's definition is what came to my mind. I don't think I've heard it used in the US.

"Punter/s" is sometimes used in U.S. stock market (Wall Street) parlance to refer to 'risk takers' -- a form of gambling, as Annpan said.

In American football, the punter is the player who dropkicks the ball to the opposing team when one team has used up its allotted number of 'downs' (without moving the ball down the field for the required number of 10 yards to earn another set of plays) and has to turn the ball over to the other team. This definition can extend to any person (or group of persons) who has to relinquish making an action, a decision, or a big play; e.g., the outgoing Congress punted to the incoming Congress to make the final decision -- the former being the punter/s in this case.

Thanks. Ann's definition is the only one that makes any sense in the context. I continue to watch English detective series and the term is used by a Cockney former copper when speaking of folks who inhabit bars, pubs, etc.

In that context you mentioned, Mary, I agree that Annpan's definition is the likely meaning. I threw in the U.S. definitions because I wondered if they are also recognized in the UK when people in the U.S. refer to them.

I have a question about 'blue money' and 'blue films'. I first heard of blue money in the 1970 Van Morrison song with that title. The lyrics are as follows:

• The photographer smiles
  Take a break for a while
  Take a rest
  Do your very best.
  Take five, honey
  Five, honey.

• Search in your bag
  Light up a f*g (this word was censored so I had to modify it)
  Think it's a drag
  But you're so glad
  To be alive, honey
  Alive, honey

• Say, when this is all over
  You'll be in clover
  We'll go out and spend
  All your blue money, blue money.

It's not hard to figure out that "honey" was doing some risqué modeling or acting.

When a fella in London asked me if I wanted to go to the cinema to see a 'blue film', I usually declined -- but not always. :-) I knew that it meant pornography or erotica; e.g., I did go to see "Last Tango in Paris" and the Swedish film "I Am Curious Yellow."

But my question is: Why blue? Does anyone know or have an idea?

Frieda, I went to Google on this one. Lots of explanations there, so take your pick!

Annpan, I did Google and was quickly overwhelmed with the theories. I don't know which to pick! I was hoping that there would be a consensus about the choice of blue -- something that everyone just knew and accepted in the UK, if not in the U.S.

Perhaps the one that makes the most sense, if it's true: Van Morrison lived in Belfast where circa 1970 the color of the 'paper' money was blue.

That doesn't explain the blue in reference to erotic films, however. I heard other things of a salacious nature in the UK referred to as 'blue' as well: blue words (profanity) and blue thoughts (naughty thinking, I suppose). It's a curious thing to me, because I usually think of shades of blue as sedate or uncontroversial.

Are you familiar with the expression "The air turned blue" after someone has uttered a string of profanities?

Freida I don't like the idea of men inviting you to 'blue' movies!. What sort of company were you keeping? They are usually the haunt of DOM's (dirty old men) in long raincoats. I hope you didn't tell the folks back home.

Also interesting to me (from the UK) is the non-use of the word fag. Over here it is an everyday term for a cigarette. A faggot is a bundle of firewood and we regularly buy faggots from the butcher. A tasty form of meat-ball made with left-over bits of pig meat, liver etc spice and herbs. Traditionally served with mash and peas. English homosexuals do not have a fit of the vapours if they here this word. Perhaps they are just less PC than our US cousins. ;-)

Recipe

We also have so-called "blue laws" in the US - I think they are mostly arcane laws about not selling alcohol on Sundays and things like that.

Donna

Donna, I had just about forgotten the 'blue laws'.

I still hear 'cursing/cussing a blue streak' occasionally, mostly from older folk.

It's strange that blue became the euphemism for something obscene. Apparently it's considered old-fashioned nowadays -- I suppose because the obscenity is often just blurted out or shown and many listeners or viewers hardly flinch anymore. But then I couldn't copy a certain word in Van Morrison's lyrics above -- the one meaning a cigarette -- no doubt, due to the changed meaning in the U.S. in the past 45-plus years. Is that word still used as UK slang for a cigarette? I remember it was said seemingly without reservation in older British films and is still sometimes used in 'period pieces' to lend authenticity to dialogue.

I saw a clip on the TV news about George Martin, the "fifth" Beatle, who died recently and I was astonished to see cigarettes drooping from his lips and John's too as they worked. I rarely see that kind of thing now but I then remembered that it was common to see both men and women lighting up a cigarette as they worked, taking a few puffs and then letting it burn out in an ashtray.

Ann, we have recently discovered a TV channel 'devoted' to old British 'B' films. Many of them are terrible, with wobbly scenery and wooden acting. Others with up-and-coming actors and interesting 'outdoor' scenes (car chases etc) I'm All Right Jack with Peter Sellers was on last week . . .and in ALL these flicks the smoking is incessant . . . as it was in the cinemas of my youth when it was sometimes impossible to see the screen for the clouds of smoke or hear the soundtrack for all the coughing and hacking.

Frieda you ask if the slang word for a cigarette is still used over here. As I commented on in this thread above it is still an everyday word that is not considered offensive in any way, we have no hangups about it, our maiden Aunts do not 'come over all queer' and need the smelling salts nor (as far as I know) do homosexuals . .. am I allowed to use that word? . . . take out law suites against anyone heard using it.

I would be interested to know how/why it got its new 'meaning' in the US and the accompanying tiptoeing that seems to be around it.

I can recall hearing the word "fag" for cigarette when I was in England. I've no idea how the word transitioned into something different in the States. When I was growing up, the term for that lifestyle was "fairy" or "pansy."

I used to smoke, but was never a heavy, dedicated smoker. I can recall the dangling cigarette and the flirtatious "Can I offer you a light?" said by male to attractive female whom he wants to get to know better. Also, people used to smoke, as they did not know what to do with their hands. Sounds strange, now, I know.

About the dangling cigarette, Jennifer Worth writes in "Call the Midwife" that one theory of Cockney pronunciation was due to the dangling cigarette that one would not wish to take time to remove when speaking.

We used to think we were so "cool" when I was about 15, or so: smoking out in the woods, so as not to be discovered, learning about menthol-flavored cigs, etc. In all the films we saw, people smoked heavily. When I went to Paris and lived there and tried Gauloises, it was a whole other experience---- unfiltered and incredibly strong. That was what the "real men" supposedly smoked....

Vee, strangely, I got your last message (the one right after Annpan's about George Martin and right before this one of mine) before I got the one with the "recipe." When you said, "As I commented on in this thread above it is still an everyday word . . .", I went back and looked for where you said it and didn't see it. There was no post between mine and Donna's about "blue laws." But, lo, it's there now! I've noticed these delays before. I wonder, sometimes, if it's the choice of certain words that put some posts in limbo for a while. I notice that you were able to spell the word out, but it wasn't allowed in my post. I got a message (paraphrasing): You have written something potentially offensive [it didn't say what] and you need to change it.

I'll have to research the word that is offensive in the U.S.

Heh! Vee, they were just ordinary blokes who asked me out to see blue films. I was never into 'leching/letching greys'. It was considered arty at the time, I think. French guys also liked to suggest seeing these risqué films -- I think they might have gotten a kick out of trying to shock me. But it wasn't just me; my female English friends got the same treatment.

Edited to add: Yes, I've heard said or seen written "the air turned blue" after someone spews profanities, but not typically from Americans unless they are familiar with Anglicisms.

In the UK a "fag" is also a younger public (which in the UK is a private) schoolboy who is compelled by school tradition to work as a servant for an older student. This practice is called "fagging".

Colleen I had forgotten about that meaning of 'fag', though I don't think the system goes on any more. So many 'public schools' are filled with the sons of Russian oligarchs and Arab princes, the only people who can afford the fees, the parents would expect their offspring to each have a retinue of servants and certainly not demean themselves by cleaning the shoes or making toast for a senior boy. ;-)

Frieda, look at Wikipedia's definition of faggot, which originally meant an old woman as well as sticks for a fire. It says the slang is mostly of American usage.

Carolyn, I've just checked my huge and heavy Collins dictionary and have found several other meanings for the word fag/faggot . . . a bundle of wrought iron for heating in a furnace, a type of 'box stitch' in needlework, the expression 'to be fagged' meaning to be tired/exhuasted probably from too many menial tasks (tell me about it;-() . .. often expressed as "What a fag! I've got to iron fifteen shirts and darn ten pairs of socks" *

The US definition of the word takes up little space nor does this Houzz site prevent me from writing it.

* Honesty compels me to add that while I do iron shirts I no longer darn socks, my excuse being one can no longer buy darning wool!

Well, it's happened to me on my computer and 'devices' again. I checked in here at RP a couple of times yesterday and saw that there had been no activity on this thread after my posted reply to Vee at 12.45PM on Sunday. (West Coast U.S. time?)

But this morning (it's a little after 6.00AM, U.S. Central Daylight time), I see posts by Colleen, Vee, and Carolyn that were made only hours after my last post but apparently didn't show up until some time during the night while I was sleeping. I scrolled up to see if I had missed anything else and, sure enough, there's Mary/Woodnymph's post about her smoking experiences that I didn't see before. (That's the sort of reminiscent detail that I find so intriguing, Mary.)

I related this because sometimes my replies may seem daft because I've missed part of the discussion. ;-( Have any of you ever noticed this happening to you? I've done all the usual things of rebooting, dumping cookies, etc.

Also, do you all ever go back and reread posts? Sometimes when I have an afterthought, I will edit my posts to add something instead of making a new one. However, I wonder if that's a waste of time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carolyn, I'll take a look at the Wikipedia entry. I read some yesterday about how certain sounds are disliked by some (often many) listeners. Words with these sounds often take on derogatory or obscene meanings because they are perceived as unpleasant, even though originally they were not intended to be. The sounds of f, hard 'g', and k (the latter two are gutturals) are found frequently in 'nasty' English words. (Uh-oh, my name may sound awful to some.) The sounds of d, s, sh, and t are often disliked, too. The letter 'h', which can be a consonant or a vowel sound or completely silent, is in a special category. It seems to be a particularly troublesome letter in the UK.

In other languages different consonant sounds are disliked. The least popular vowel sounds are those of the letter 'u'. Isn't that interesting? :-)

Frieda, re. your inquiry about late-appearing posts. I asked John about this and although he says he is no expert (but much much quicker/brighter than me on the computer) he suggests if you use Firefox go to the address bar above the Houzz info. at the top of the screen and look at the half-curved arrow towards the right. When you click onto it it forces the computer to check if there is a later 'page' available, which will reload up onto the screen. If there is nothing new to load a red cross will appear.

He thinks a similar system is in place at Explorer.

Otherwise he thinks it could be a fault at Houzz.

Once or twice I have thought I had read all the posts, only to see one sometime later, but, knowing me, I could just have missed it. Often if much 'scrolling down' is needed I 'scroll up' from the bottom to save time and perhaps I don't always go up far enough.

I have scrolled back and as advised have found some extra posts I hadn't had on my screen earlier.

I have noticed that sometimes a post I have written has come up with a far different time attached (like "posted 16 hours ago") when I know I posted more recently than that! Probably to do with time zones?

Frieda, if you add to posts, I could have missed it as I haven't gone back before but shall in future. I am used to reading chat room daily posts in sequence but will have to change my habit on Houzz, obviously.

I constantly use the "refresh" icon to pull up all posts that I have missed, FWIW.

What is the feminine version of "nepotism"? I have tried to find a word but haven't traced one.

Vee, thanks to you and John for the advice. I'll try that with the Explorer feature which is what I have. Like Mary, I use 'refresh' frequently, but it hasn't solved this problem I have. Not only do posts appear late (I notice that yours and Annpan's are dated yesterday but I didn't see them until this afternoon, although I checked twice earlier), I do see some posts once and then they disappear! That is if I'm not imagining them in the first place -- there was one you made about darning socks and ironing shirts that has since evaporated. Did you make such a post? Did you delete it? Also, some of my posts appear late or are no longer around. Personally, I have a feeling it's Houzz.

My apologies, Mary: I didn't want to get off your topic of Britspeak, but this is where I noticed things were haywire. I'll let it go and see if it sorts itself out. I just want you all to know in case I don't respond appropriately.

Frieda, I can still see Vee's ironing post, but it has that word "f*g" so may be too much for Houzz!

BTW, I have US spellcheck and it red underlines Houzz! It also underlines a lot of other words that I spell differently...typos too of course. I have to keep my nails short as I often hit two keys on my laptop when I let them grow.

Annpan, I just now saw your query about nepotism. I don't know the answer, but I do know that the word in Italian for both niece and nephew is nipote/nepote (I've seen it spelled both ways) so maybe nepotism is gender neutral not just in English.

I'm glad that I didn't imagine Vee's post, although I can no longer see it. :-)

I detest spellcheck, mainly because it will automatically change my spelling for me and I might not notice it. If I don't want my spelling changed, I have to override it a couple of times. It irks me most of the time rather than helps me.

If you can't find the correct word, it doesn't exist! Not important, just cropped up in a recent family lunch conversation about my D getting work for her relatives in a place she was managing. I suggested "nieceism" and as it was that kind of lunch, we all got the giggles!

Vee's ironing comment is listed as being posted on Tuesday at 2.36 and follows Carolyn's suggestion that you look at the Wikipedia definition of faggot, which in another definition was what I ordered for that lunch excepting it was "rissoles" on the menu. Same thing but more upmarket...

My post mentioning ironing and sock darning was dated Tuesday at 2.36AM and is still on my screen. Frieda, I remember when this was the RP site you occasionally found items unavailable/disappeared/deleted. I'm sure Houzz must use the same 'system' for all countries/regions.

Re spellcheck, Ann I understand that the US way of spelling is used for ALL English words on computer systems. I have always been a terrible speller but do notice when words are 'corrected' to American and occasionally a US 'Houzzer' will pick me up on my use of the English variety!

I read recently that if a UK student submits an application to university and has some egs of 'American spelling' therein he/she will not be considered for a place . . . I don't know if it because he has used 'spellcheck' at all or because he should have corrected the 'mistake'.

I find it annoying when books have words using both/either UK and American spelling. I suppose it is a sign of lazy proof-reading.

I am posting this at approx 09.48AM on Thursday 17 March. GMT

I've looked up "nepotism" in the online dictionary and it is gender neutral (which I always thought it was, so annpan's question puzzled me).

Vee, I was told that I could change my laptop computer to UK English spelling but I don't mess with it myself. I tried a tweak one time and it was a disaster!

I get a red line under incorrect words but not alterations and no one has ever corrected my English wording. I do try to give alternatives if I think it is necessary to explain, where I think there would be a puzzling difference though!

Colleen, thanks. I did try online but asked for a feminine version so that was the wrong question apparently as I didn't get a helpful answer!

Vee, I don't recall the problem with RP when it was GardenWeb, but when it changed to Houzz there were a lot of weird things happening.

Someone has suggested to me that I might need to adjust my 'preferences' at Houzz because this is the only site where I've noticed problems. Apparently you can tweak things like spellcheck, blocking (or ignoring) certain posters, prompts to signal potentially offensive terms, blocking email availability or notification, blocking outside links, etc. Perhaps unwittingly I have asked for these things in some list. I don't remember ever seeing such a list and don't know where to find it. I would appreciate someone pointing my way to it, please.

You also might try utilizing a different browser system. I regularly have problems with one particular site when I'm using IE, but switching to google makes it better. It really depends on how the original site is coded on the back-end etc.