John, Don't worry about thinking your are being too assertive... no offense is taken. I'm just genuinely curious as to why the soft water is perceived as being so terrible. I often see many quite firm statements on a variety of topics (water, fertilizer, temperature, sunlight, methods for planting in ground, etc...) related home gardening. There is a sound horticultural basis behind many of these recommendations, but at the same time I see many firm recommendations that for most people likely make no difference one way or the other. I don't see the point of having this huge list of varying do's and don'ts if a large portion of the recommendations either are minimally helpful, or don't really have any impact. When I began growing container citrus several years ago, I started out all gung-ho trying to do everything under the sun that was recommended to make my trees happy especially in winter (grow lights, supplemental heating, boosting the humidity, etc...). The end result invariably was sickly looking trees. I've had much better luck not really doing too much and allowing the trees to acclimate gradually on their own to whatever their current environment happens to be. Getting back to the soft water question. I completely agree that too much sodium chloride will kill plants, especially citrus. I would also add that too much salt of any kind could kill your plants, of course the lethal concentrations will vary quite widely depending on the specific toxicities. An ion exchange water softener does not add sodium chloride to the water. The sodium chloride is just used to regenerate the ion exchange resin by saturating it with sodium ions. The softening process only replaces the magnesium and calcium ions with sodium. The primary anion before and after treatment should remain carbonate, no additional chloride is added. Since sodium carbonate is much more soluble in water than either magnesium or calcium carbonate, one could argue that it would be more difficult to build up high concentrations of it in the container. This is assuming that one flushes their container with excess water on a semi regular basis. Nevertheless, I doubt this aspect really makes much significant difference one way or the other if the container is being flushed with water periodically. While thinking about this whole issue, I also came across several research papers that investigate the effects of salinity on citrus. The primary toxic effects of "salinity" on citrus are increased osmotic stress and specific ion toxicities. Again, if one is flushing their container with water semi-regularly, osmotic stress should never become an issue, as the excess accumulated salts will be washed out regularly. With respect to ion toxicity, the general consensus seems to be that chloride is a more significant issue than sodium. However, the water softening process does not really add any chloride to the the treated water, therefore its concentration is no different than in the untreated water. The concentration of sodium carbonate in the "softened" water is also not really ever going to be that high (in the neighborhood of 200 ppm, if the input water is classified as very hard). I've seen a study (link below) that subjected citrus to salt (sodium chloride and/or calcium chloride) at concentrations up to 6000 ppm. Although the differences in response to the salt challenge were clearly noticeable among the tested cultivars, the most significantly damaged trees only showed a "slight marginal burn" on the leaves. So even assuming there was 200 ppm sodium chloride in the softened water, it would take several months of watering with no flushing of the soil to build up to these high salt concentrations where there are clearly visible toxicity effects. In summary, I do not see any scientific basis for why "softened" water should be perceived as so bad for citrus culture. At the same time, there is not much evidence that it has any significant benefits. In the absence of finding any direct studies investigating this question, I think the issue is largely irrelevant for container citrus culture. If a few basic care practices are observed (mainly not treating your soil as a black hole in which an infinite amount of fertilizer and soluble salts from the water supply can be allowed to accumulate), it shouldn't really matter. I will add one final caveat, if signs of salt toxicity do happen to appear irrespective of the water source, then one should absolutely start trying to isolate and correct the problem. John, I'm curious to know if you have any additional thoughts. In any case, cheers, and thanks for the discussion! -Scott PS Susan, my sincere apologies for taking your thread off on a little tangent. Here is a link that might be useful: Salt tolerance of some citrus

I can't post a picture right now. The leaves just look like they are green and yellow marble. I'm pretty careful about not over watering, I tend to err on the other side of that problem. The fertilizer I used was the powder kind that you sprinkle on the dirt and then water really well, is that OK? I couldn't find any liquid citrus fertilizer at the garden store. Thanks so much for helping!

Gnats are always a sign of a very poor mix and decay.. Now whether your tree lost root to desciation or to too much moisture is hard to determin exactly..But by your decription, I am going to assume with Jean that you are underwatering it and then the roots dry out. Then once you water it, you have roots dead that are not taking up moisture, rotting and decaying bringing gnats. Have you checked the roots to see if they are healthy? You would know that) Some parts of your mix are probably staying wet while other parts not getting wet at all? You would know that) Why are you watering in just cups? Are you giving your tree sips every time you water? If you are, watch for salt toxitity and uneven moisture..You would know that if the bottom saucer has white in it, or if the soil looks discolored and roots are dead brown and if areas in your mix are dry while other areas damp..) Almost always when branches turn brown your roots are gone that support that part of the tree.. Leaves falling don't concern me as much as branches turning brown. Either your condition is something that has built up over time, or just a quick response to a simple solution. I would check the roots and make sure the roots look nice and biege or white and don't smell. I would make sure the mix is moist throughout after watering. I would make sure the mix is porous. I would be sure it's getting at least 8-10 hours of sunlight or a very bright light is use if you keep it at room temps. I would change the mix as a 911 if the roots are ok. I would not fertilize it until you can put it outside again or give it bright light. I would make sure to flush it if the mix is ok. I would water until the water runs out of the bottom every time I water. I would use a wooden dowel or kabob stick until I make sure my watering practices are ok and I can judge on my own, usually by nudging the pot or picking it up after wet and then when dry. If you need more help, let us know..) Mike This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Mon, Oct 20, 14 at 13:01

I've had impressive results with a product called Biowash. I first used it very reluctantly as I have an acre food forest, all organic, and let the ecosystem take care of itself, except for mulching, and compost. And from the tasty fruits and veggies we get (a lot of it!), this approach seems to work, at least for me. Like many other Floridians, I was having trouble with some of the citrus trees we planted. Upon the advice of a trusted friend, I tried Biowash, which is organic. The results were pretty impressive from the first spraying. My orange, lemon and lime trees went crazy with blooms, and now there are plenty of fruits on the trees. And no, I'm not trolling to sell the product. ;) It just seems to work!