Good luck Leon! Rosie

Yup - the clubs with time turn into the coffee klatch and eventually die out - that's my friend and another gardenweb oldtimer Larry_B kept reminding us. You need to vigilant, keep up with the programs and try to bring new younger and enthusiastic members. Otherwise the whole group will only talk about great grandchildren and a last colonoscopy. And do not forget a monthly morbidity and mortality report. And anybody who tries to talk about violets or knitting will be considered a pesky intruder.

I just wanted to encourage Leon to get something besides the tired Lowe's violets. It takes several months to get the leaf to the babies to the first bloom. If you acquire some leaves, cuttings, young plants now - at Grand Rapids show or on ebay - you will a variety of blooming plants to play with in summer. You wait - and it will be another summer gone...

Thanks for that advice, Irina. You're right, of course.

I'll be checking out eBay next week. The sellers will be mailing as soon as the weather permits, and I'll be looking for a few interesting ones.

I'd like some bi-colors if I can get leaves that'll propagate.

It is a very economical way to start a collection! A lot of people want an instant gratification of a large blooming plant - but in a long run - your own babies will outperform somebody else plant. Plus you will have bunch of them for exchange.

I just talked with my AV buddy about her experience in plant exchange. And she said - many years ago when she was in a beginning of her hobby - she participated in exchanges to increase her collection and share her extras. She said - sometimes results are positive and sometimes - not. She said - I would pack a box with bunch of interesting rare stuff - and what I got in exchange - would be a box of crap - her words, not mine.

Leon - since you are a newbie - IMHO it is an info you need to keep in mind. If what you have - are leaves from NOIDs - you need the other side to know - that's what you are ready to send. I met oodles of generous people - who will send you good stuff for free - may be asking for postage to be covered. But not everybody wants noname AV to be added to the collection. When your collection starts to grow - maintain your tags, file descriptions and records of purchase, add photos of your inventory. It makes a difference between a collection and a hoard - and AVs are like potato chips - you can never have only one. And after first 30... you can have a senior moment and forget the name of the one without a tag.

Rosie, I found a yellow one I'd really I'd to get : Senk's Alchemy Gold.

If you could possibly find one (or, perhaps another yellow that's similar at all ) would you get a leaf for me ?

Ok Leon! I will write it down. Who knows what I will find? BTW is this a trailer? kinda looks like it in the pix. But no matter what I find, you do know it will be a long time before it is shipped, weather has to be WARM enough so it doesn't die in transit. Rosie

Thanks, Rosie

I think it's a trailer, I saw it on another forum but there's no way to ask because it's an old entry.

No matter ; EBay doesn't have any yellows at all . This guy Senk ( I don't remember his first name ) has been trying to develop yellow AV's for a long time now, and has finally succeeded.

There are several in existence now, but they're really hard to find. Being a beginner, this would be my first real addition to the collection.

Nope not a trailer,,,I just googled it. I google everything. When there is no one to ask,,,,,ask GOOGLE!!! You will always find an answer!!!

I just typed in Senks Alchemy Gold and hit enter. Here is the description. Senk's Alchemy Gold (9368) 09/24/2004 (D. Senk) Single yellow sticktite bell, Medium green, ovate, quilted. Rosie

@ Leon:

Bloominjungle has a plant of SAG on Ebay right now that is currently up to $10 bid plus $12 shipping...and five hours left to go before bidding ends. Too rich for my blood. I hope you know, Leon, what you're asking for - a Senk's variety and a yellow to boot - not the most common of varieties/colors. Well, reach for the stars - why not! If Rosie and I were going to Nationals, there might be a chance to find one for you, but I think the sale in Ann Arbor is a long shot - still we both will look, rest assured.

But maybe someone here on this forum has a plant in their collection already and will see this and share a leaf with you. I'd say post it on the Exchanges forum as a "want" but so few people go there it's unlikely to get much response, I'm afraid. You could just start a new thread with Senks Alchemy Gold in the title and ask if anyone knows of a source...

And now I am sure you are truly addicted: you have a "wish list!" :-)

Anne

Corrected: Lyon's carries Senk's Alchemy Morning Star (not SA Gold as I originally posted in my excitement - sorry!) and they sell leaves or plants. Leon, it is a trailer and it is very yellow. Perhaps it would be something you would enjoy: http://lyndonlyon.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=b7804dd17ebaccf5bf70107ac530f285&keyword=Senk%27s+Alchemy

I love getting leaves from LL! I have my eye on three, but I'm not sure which ones I want to get as plants and which as leaves. Edge of Darkness, Cosmic Blast, and LE Esmeralda. Ebay seems so high for shipping!

Irina, your and your friend's description of an older club is HILARIOUS!

I think I am too young to join the coffee klatch... but the time will come. My first club disbanded because it was small and members were elderly, the couple of younger and enthusiastic members tried to revive it - they put programs, invited new people... but new people didn't stick - no surprise ...eventually the members started passing out in droves - and we got down to 4... puff...and the club was gone.

I.

AnneCecillia, thanks for that link. I had seen it already - the Morning Star is actually white with a light yellow center; the Gold is deep yellow (one of the very few yellows I've been able to find ).

Irina, Once again, I appreciate your analysis so we (those of us who are newer to growing) won't be too disappointed and will know what is going on when when looking into joining a club! What about the AVSA conventions? Are they motivated, energetic and enthusiastic? It would be nice to take AV displays and growing to the next level and not just let it be a repeat of the past. My opinion is that the interest has moved to the Russian world. It is still a novelty for them and they are having a lot of fun with it. Joanne

Joanne - morning -

I think Rosie nailed it - you attend as a guest a meeting of any club - and you feel if there is an interest - in knitting or plant growing or reading in a book club - or it is more of a social type of gathering, where old friends get together. Nothing wrong with the last one - but if you want to learn something, not just have a pleasant time - you better pick the club where activities are more into learning, not chatting.

Like many of AV lovers I belong to 2 societies - AVSA and Gesneriad Society - and just by the nature of the subject - GS is more interesting to me. There are people who love AVs more than anything - and they are devoted to their love and invest lots of personal time into AV Society functioning nicely. But - African Violet - is more or less monoculture. Yes, there trailers and minis and species - but the vast majority of the hybrids we are dealing with is a progenty of Saintpaulia ionanta. It is not a rocket science to figure out how to grow it. And there is just so much you can learn. At some point - growers advance in a high level showing and judging - or into hybridizing. And both these paths are challenging and interesting. There is no such thing as a perfect show plant. There is always a way to grow it better. And there is no end in playing a multidimentional chess game with genetics trying to create something that was never here before.

In Gesneriad Society - we are dealing with 3200 plants from all over the world - some of them are very challenging. So the learning never ends. Growing for show - is much more challenging, there is no single recipe for all of them. Each species or hybrid can put you on your toes. Hybridizing - is even more challenging - a lot of species and hybrids are too stubborn to cross, require years of tries before it takes - and in result you can easily get something with Big leaves and Small flowers...

I think I talk too much...

Leon, as you are a brat forum member as well, perhaps you haven't seen it yet but in Eye Candy Deb has posted a thread for you about Senk's Alchemy Morning Star. I just saw it and if you scroll down, she has done a color comparison with SAMS blooms and some other recognizable yellow objects (a marvelous idea, that was!) You'd be surprised how yellow the blooms are. (And in the official description it is termed as yellow, not white with a yellow center.) Of course bloom color can vary in any violet with light and temperature, so you may have seen a pale one. But apparently this one can be very yellow indeed. Not trying to change your mind, just pointing out something you may have missed. :-)

AnneCecilia, thanks; I just checked those Eye Candy posts. Deb's sure convincing and I think part of the problem is photography. The camera can fool you.

But, when she shoots several yellow objects, all varying in color intensity, in one picture, her position is proven. Morning Star is yellow - I'm convinced.

Now I'll look for a leaf or two to try it. Some have had trouble with it as it grows, others not, so we'll see.

Thank you again, Leon

You're welcome! Always happy to successfully enable...

;-)

Irina, yep that is what I meant about the groups! As an instructor of various things, I really have to have a program that keeps things moving along also. Give them one split second to say "how ya doin'?" and I have to rein it in just so we complete the project! But I love doing it and believe it or not I do interject some fun into it!

And NO, NO, NO,,,,,,you don't talk too much. You just keep on talkin' cause some of us are intently listening!

I remember a sinningia I had. White sprite. And Dollbaby. Maybe someday I can have them again. Ahhhh,, memory lane. Rosie

Irina, your information is so helpful. In my area there are both societies, so I was wondering about the G society. I go to sales for both because the plants grown in California nurseries from leaves are much stronger for my environment. These clubs are a distance to travel.

There are offshoots of clubs that are also in the area but they are remnants of clubs that were more active. Even though most in the larger clubs are "geriatric" stage, they are growing plants. The public that swoops in and sweeps up all their stock in a matter of minutes are in the middle age category. And those who are happy with fully blooming Optimaras for decoration are the young couples with young children. So its three generations. Back in the heyday, the large numbers were younger.

For myself growing indoors, it is easier to stick with one genus, if that's the word. I admire the others I just don't have space.

It takes more than one meeting to know if you want to belong. In my case, there was enough of a remnant with fantastic knowledge for me to want to join and get motivated. I also like to contribute what I've researched or grown.

New people who were much younger tried to fit in but eventually left as a group, presumably, to start their own club.

your talking is fine, I love the info and your delicious sense if humor. Joanne

Heather, as Irina pointed out, most clubs founded in the 1950's or 1970's are on the wane or decline. Your best bet for real human interaction is to go to s convention if you have time.

Especially for a younger person as yourself, you would be more likely to meet more newcomers to the art of growing and still benefit from the knowledge of the old timerz

joanne

Anne and Leon,

Among the novelty or unusual categories, yellow violets are the latest "toy." The latest "bell and whistle." A friend of mine who has grown every type of Violet imaginable over 30 plus years now specializes in whites and yellows. It is not possible to know how a violet will perform until a few samples are grown out. Vendors are in business to have happy customers so they won't stock items that are rare or that underperform. So if a vendor carries a white or yellow, it has been tested. That is still no guarantee it will ever look like the advertising photo.

There is a Russian yellow that is the strongest but it is not available yet in the US except in private collections.

I did a lot of research on the genetics and development of yellow violets for my friend. The most well known Violet geneticist is Jeff Smith. He explained that the genetic manipulation it takes to create a violet that looks yellow is so complex that at any time in a bloom cycle a violet might revert to any one of its ancestors producing a different color. The production of what appears to be yellow is caused by lack or suppression of other genes. So genetically a yellow violet is weak. A friend in my violet club is also a professional with understanding who went into more detail. Because these growers in my club are seasoned, they are not going to be disappointed if a violet does not deliver as hoped. A lot depends on the environment as to what genetic tendencies will manifest.

one of the most innovative hybridizers is the Optimara company. They came out with a yellow but they explain it might be unstable.

some of the older yellows are more stable but difficult to come by. They have had less genetic manipulation. But these are in private collections. They are not vigorous so a leaf start takes longer. The bloooms are usually small and single.

As for Senks, they have a reputation for being more stable in the yellow color. As noted in another post, they are hard to come by, limited in quantity and expensive for that reason. If you do manage to get one, it will need a extra care.

I did a lot of research to understand more about the yellow violet. It is not natural, it is a result of engineering and tinkering, more to see if it can be done rather than for the aesthetic beauty of the plant.

the same can be said of heavily variegated violets. What some folks seek after in appearance is in actuality a genetically weak and unstable plant.

as for senks and Russians, Jeff smith raises both. The genetics of hybridized plants are closely guarded secrets. It is not known if the brighter yellow of these two mentioned above are due to the chemical insertion of a non-native substance. That is, the production of yellow requires the suppression of the dominant blue gene. However, that results in white. To get yellow, in nature, a chemical from other species causes this. The generation of yellow followed after many years of trying to produce reds. These reds are also the result of suppression of genes rather than a true red-producing chemical being present.

So if you like to experiment and won't be easily disappointed you can try to search for yellow. Maybe start with Optmara's yellows.

another thought is green violets. They are the complete opposite of yellows. Geneticall they are strong because the flowers have chlorophyll in them.

someone who wants to experiment could get one yellow, one green and one white from optimara mail order division to see which is strongest. That will form a basis of knowledge based on experience. Then when you proceed to more expensive and difficult varieties, you will have a basis for comparison.

This info is for anyone interested in trying to seek out and grow yellow because it seems to be a coming trend.

The way that people seem to go on "search and capture" missions when attending public violet sales, it seems unlikely a senks or a yellow would be obtained that way.

in my experience, the rare and exotic is aquired by knowing "a friend of a friend." Those who share something rare usually want to make sure it goes to someone who will grow it well. The closest thing to a commercial yellow is Optimara, and read the fine print! They make no promises. Joanne

One more thought in clubs, the people who founded them are entitled to retire now. Most would love to pass along the baton to newcomers who "play nice." But not to those who don't care to respect or understand the history of the club, and try to stage a hostile takeover. So, Irina, for Peet's sake, sip the coffee. It's not Kool Aid! How do you like your "kawfee" - one lump or two? Joanne the bridge builder

Regarding yellow and green - I picked a starter on our September sale - Optimara mySunshine - whatever is a spelling - healthy, robust, already blooming - nothing weak about this one. It is not yellow-yellow - it is greenish yellow - but so far - I didn't see yellows that robust. Get it and enjoy!

MySensation - that's an interesting white with green edge. Nice - but there are good green-n-white hybrids available. I saw pics of very interesting Russians. Out of older ones - 'Frozen in Time' is a winner of all kind of shows.

I am sipping the coffee. My current club members are my good friends, people who really helped me and other people in time of need - and this counts much higher than any plant growing talents. But there should be a balance. There should be people who are interested in learning and growing - and people who carry traditions. No takeovers there. It is hard to find new members - and if they start quitting the club because of a persistent loud off-topic chat that interrupts the meeting... that's bad.

Irina I have seen a photo of Optimara MySensation. I love bicolor types but I really love Frozen in Time. Just something about it. It is on my list along with 1.2 million other violets!

Waaaaay back in the 1960's I had a violet named Athena. I really loved her. Still do but she doesn't come up on any google searches. Maybe she is gone forever, I don't know. I never thought violets would just disappear! What a hard lesson. Rosie

I just saw 2 Cupids Jewel photos on Ebay that don't look like yours. I wonder why.

I don't know about that, Leon. I think the second photo (Bloomlover's offer) is a dead ringer for mine. My photo that I posted at the beginning of this thread has a lot of yellow tint to it - the fault of my camera in that light from the stands, nothing else. The first photo (I'm not familiar with that vendor) is within the parameters of the written description of the variety, too, quoted here from the hybridizer Lyndon Lyon's website: "An excellent bloomer which forms a perfect bouquet of pale plum,
semidouble and double stars. The semiminiature flowers also boast of a
darker shade of plum in the eye of each flower. The medium green,
serrated foliage shapes nicely and is quilted."

So what do you see that appears wrong to you, Leon?

Verrrrrry pretty plant! Rosie

I was wrong about the second one. I think the first one is probably mislabeled by the seller.

Sorry but I can't agree, Leon. If you look at the blossom at 11:00 in the second photo, you'll see how similar it is to the closeup in photo 1. Furthermore the leaves on both appear to be correct. Sometimes there are differences in growing conditions that result in slight variations in blooms, but I don't see any great differences here. That said, Bloomlover's photo is certainly more enticing...but that's not to say the other guy is selling something incorrectly identified. (And you're not likely to get that particular plant pictured in the photos if you bid on it anyway unless it states that is so. Usually the photos on Ebay are "representative." Then there are the vendors who "enhance" the colors on their photos. Now THOSE guys I have a problem with.)

I almost wrote a response to this thread yesterday about the two pix. At first glance I thought they were different also. So I deleted my post rather than disagree when I wasn't sure.

So today I came back and looked again. I went back and really looked hard. Then I went to check out MyDelight that is now blooming for me on my windowsill just for comparison. Similar flower, but what I was looking for was just how identical ARE the each of the open flowers on MyDelight?

At first glance most of the flowers resemble each other. But up close there still are minor differences. No two flowers were identical in makeup or petal count EXACTLY. While I didn't go so far as to count flower petals, I could see the same differences in my flowers that I see in the above two pix.

And I do see (in the photos above) the scallop in the leaves of Cupid's Jewel Now what does all this mean to this discussion? First "perception is in the eye of the beholder". This is true when we look at things "overall". But it is when we actually zero in on each detail (or flower in this case) that we see things differently.

After zero-ing in,,,I think both pix are Cupids Jewel. It is not unusual for flowers to have a petal or two less than the flower next to it or other minor differences. That doesn't make it a different plant.

I have seen two identical blooming plants right in front of me have slight detail differences. After all how many times have any of us looked at a shelf of the same name of violets and chosen THAT one over the other ones??? It is our perception. And then, after the next flush of bloom we say, "Oh my that is even better than when I bought it!!!" Or maybe we say "Hey, what is that seller trying to pull????" Or maybe we think we have a sport.

Again, "perception (and beauty!) is in the eye of the beholder". And remember,,,I am very detail oriented! Just my opinion. Rosie

Thank you, Rosie for looking it over so closely. And remember, the description for Cupid's Jewel says "semi-double AND double stars" which allows for the differences right from the get-go. The fact that the close up bloom shows more of the dark plum eye stands to reason as it is only a semi-double. You have to look very closely in the doubles to see that dark coloration because of the extra petals.

And who hasn't had a plant bloom differently in winter than in summer? We don't know when the photos were taken for that matter.

AnneCeclia, Would you have any suggestions on where to get Vallarta Campanas Moradas? A member of my AV club who knew the hybridizer would like to get that one again. In our club, we are "supposed" to be growing the western trailers, but we have trouble finding them! Thanks, Joanne

Rosie, MyDelight is like that, the blooms seem to vary slightly. I have several examples of MyDelight and have studied them, like you have. Not only do they vary slightly from one another, they also vary slightly in bloom cycles. When I first get them, the buds open like rosettes and have frilled edges with green and gold. So I think that is what Optiimara wants them to look like. Bur once they are fully open, they lie flat in the back, the frilled edges smooth out, the edge color variation nearly disappears. They are fully double. They look exactly like the photo on the thread My New Violet, they are that exact color. Even though the frills and coloring on the edges are gone, it remains one of my favorites and easy to grow. Repeat bloom cycles retain some of the fringe and golden edge, but it soon fades. Optimara will often vary the breeding of a variety and call them by the same name. The differences are too subtle to give them different names. I don't know if there are several versions of MyDelight, or if they are all the same showing different looks to the blooms depending on the stage of maturity.

By the way, I saw an old photo of Optimara Rosalie, it was a single star, mostly white with splotches of pink. Joanne

Joanne, no I don't know of a vendor selling VCM right now. I did see one on Ebay once but it went for a pretty high price which is how I got my leaves from a lady on another forum. I asked where I might find leaves or a plant at reasonable prices and she graciously sent me leaves to Vallarta Companas Moradas and another tiny trailer, Lilla Blaklockan. I'd be happy to send you or your fellow club member some leaves (in a couple weeks when it warms a bit more up here) if you PM me an address.

AnneCecilia, my friend will be delighted! I wanted to let you know Lyon's has Sweet Tea in stock if you wanted another!

AnneCecilia, I am not sure if my message to you was received. However, my friend and I went to a violet sale recently where we got starter plants of Vallarta Campanas Moradas: The name means "purple bells." Joanne

Oh, good Joanne - I 'm glad! You and your friend will enjoy that little cutie (VCM,) I'm sure. Rosie and I met up at and had a terrific time at a violet sale in Ann Arbor, MI this past Saturday and came home with lots of new plants and leaves. Nothing like sharing an outing like that with a good friend, right? :-)

Anne

Anne, Yes, exactly! A few members from my violet club met up and went together to the sale on Saturday. I got a very nice selection of plants that are locally grown so they are already acclimated to our conditions. Now I will have more to trade in the future with online friends if I keep up any more trades. J

Rosie, did you make it to Ann Arbor on Saturday ? If you did, how was it ?

Leon, allow me to answer for Rosie as she's out of action at the moment. Yes, Rosie went to the sale in A.A. - and I met her down there. We had a marvelous time choosing from some absolutely beautiful plants, all well grown and of an impressive variety including Russians, trailers and recent releases. There were streps and some other gessies, too. Good thing we got there right at 10 when it opened as it was swamped with people and in short order the tables were being picked clean. We both came away with boxes full of plants and leaves!

This was Rosie's last outing before her surgery for total knee replacement on Tuesday. I spoke to her DH last night, and she came through surgery well. Hopefully she will be back with us here on GW before too long!

Anne

Anne, thanks for that answer. I had forgotten that Rosie's having that surgery.

Rosie : If you're able to use your computer now and are in contact, I wish you well and do hope you will now have improved function.

Here I am!!!!!! Hi everyone,,,thanks Leon, yes I am doing very well. I did not see any violet resembling yellow at all. But OH,,,,,did I see! Beautiful violets! I got a couple trailers, plants and leaves! I had one day to get them on wicks, step back and enjoy and then I was gone. I came home yesterday from the rehab center. Still a little sleep deprived, but I have lived to tell the tale!

When I can ambulate a little better I am going to start leaves, especially from the trailers! They are so pretty. Right now I don't remember names. Not like I can jump up to look either. Darn.

This morning I am trying to catch up with gardenweb. So much to read and see!!! Rosie

That's great, Rosie...glad you're coming back to normal. I'll bet that rehab center was no fun.

I guess it'll take some time for you to be able to get around, but you can spend that time hovering over the leaves & plants which are also trying to rehab.

Leon

Welcome back, Rosie! You've been missed here and glad you are back at home now where I know you'll sleep better. :-) How did your DH do keeping the water reservoirs filled while you were gone?

Rosie - welcome back - and take good care of yourself. This is one surgery that requires a long recovery. Hope DH will keep watering!

Irina

Thank you everyone so much. As far as him taking care of the plants, well,,,,um,,,not so much. I am going to have to do it little at a time myself. But even though a couple reservoirs were bone dry, no one wilted yet. BUT,, no one died!!!!

I have this neat little tray Anne loaned me that fits on my walker and that will make this task so much easier. Thanks Anne!!!

And we had so much fun at the Ann Arbor Violet Show. I also bought a miniature begonia. Those little leave are no bigger than my baby fingernail (and folks, that is small!) and I certainly love "small"!!!!! I am also gearing up for the fall show. Are you getting ready Anne????? AND there may be a light at the end of a tunnel. At the show a very nice lady asked me if I was a member of either of the clubs that put the show on. I said I don't know of anyone or group to join. She gave me a handout and my oh me!!! One of the groups is pretty close for me to attend meetings!! I am gonna try eventually! Gonna broaden my horizons!!!

Thank you all for the good wishes!!! Rosie