Thank you all SO much for all this information. I attached a pic of some peaches we picked 2 years ago. Just one of the boxes (out of about 600lbs we picked that day.) I thought it might be nice to see this time of year. I am going to start researching more the root stocks and varieties. Mainly I need hardy peaches, that produce well. We love fresh peaches but the main intention of peaches is to can them for winter fruit supply. We've only tasted a few varieties from the tree which area Elberta, Loringn Sunbright and a couple others but the Lorings were our favorite so far....they were HUGE peaches (which means less work to process for canning the larger they are.) They were so good. The Elberta seemed like a safe choice as well. Apples we were planning on possibly a Red Gravenstein (earlier), Sierra Beauty or Sweet 16 which area later. Fuji for storing into winter. Any suggestions on the longest storing apple varieties? (late ripening AND long storage too). Sounds like Pink Lady did well with storage. We don't care for either Red or Golden Delicious varieties. Mainly we buy Fuji apples but that is probably because those are mainly what are available in our area to buy in bulk. I am getting really excited. Someday I want to order some root stock for an apple tree and graft my very favorite apple tree from childhood. I know all my siblings want a tree from that. It was a volunteer apple tree near the machine shed, and the apples were AMAZING! So I will be asking for help on that too. Many recommended making the orchard area expandable. Good idea! We have about 90 more feet we can extend it in the fenced area. That will give us a space about 45' wide by 220' long down one side of our property for the orchard. For now it will be about 45' by 130' which will hopefully be enough room for 12 trees in the initial area. The 4 pears will be planted alongside the driveway. The cherry and apricot we are considering incorperating into our landscape (hubby is a big fan of edible landscapes). The deer seem to leave the cherry trees alone around here (not sure about the apricot though.) The posts here are certainly encouraging as far as fruit tree size and fruit production time frames. One question I do have is for the best growth rates would it be best to dig out a larger area than one might with a shovel (we have the use of a mini-excavator or backhoe) and add compost etc? What would you recommend amending the immediate soil with for the best success. Like I said the soil is really pretty good, grows lush hay now, the cleachy rock (whiter looking soil with river type rock layer is down about 5+ feet). Also what do you mulch with under trees? We have a lot of aged straw.....we don't want grass growing right under the trees because we don't want to worry about weed eating near them or trying to turn a riding mower that tight.

This is an excellent topic, and one that we need to keep in mind if we want to see a robust future of gardening, much less rose gardening. I agree that we seem to be growing into a much more "indoor" culture, which to me transcends the concerns about too much device time in the younger generation (as I sit here typing this into a device...). It seems like outdoor time is compartmentalized into particular uses, mostly sports or commuting, and spending time in the yard for fun isn't usually a consideration. Goal oriented sorts may indeed get hooked with vegetable gardens, and that's a great hook for economic benefits as well. I think the key reminder for us here is the word "plants" rather than necessarily "roses" as an entry into the love of gardening, and to take to heart Josh's other post about enabling people he runs into casually. Every time I see someone new move into the neighborhood at large, I make a point of bringing them fresh produce and inviting them to stop by my yard and browse for free divisions of the many perennials I have to share. I figure it's a multiple benefit - getting something free means that there's no loss to trying, seeing something work in someone else's yard makes it more likely in yours, it makes people think that they COULD do something more than boring with their own yards, and I'm offering my help as a fellow gardener for advice. We ran into a new neighbor this weekend as my daughter and I were selling girl scout cookies up the street, and even though I didn't have any produce to offer at the time (duh - back to zero this week again), the new neighbor did look grateful at the prospect of being able to do "something" with her yard. The other thing we can do is literally as well as figuratively plant seeds with our own contacts in the next generation. My own kids are firmly convinced of the benefits of gardening in at least the tangible sense of food and smell and visual impact, though they're variable in wanting to help very directly. Regardless though, I keep throwing out information on basic garden problem solving when the opportunity comes up, and I know from my own experience how well some of that can stick in later years. I mostly learned gardening from the vegetable plots with my father, and didn't have my own yard till nearly 20 years later, but I could still hear his voice coaching me in techniques that have held through the test of time. I make sure to pass these along to the neighbor children, some of whom have parents who appreciate yards but are self-proclaimed "non-gardeners" (they even broke down and sold a beautiful greenhouse when they bought the place that I would have given my eyeteeth for). One of these days, those kids may grow up to want their own vegetables and flowers, and I haven't given up on passing along extra plants (including roses) to those neighbors yet either. I've basely corrupted every other neighbor on every side of me with roses and other plants, so I'm watching for my opportunities to share the love of plants when they're ready. Like every other aspect of gardening, encouraging others to love plants takes patience, but I'm never willing to give up on the challenge. Cynthia

Amending the soil here strikes me as a losing proposition - unless you stick to raised beds and square foot gardening (along with heavy mulching). Much to my surprise, bamboo will grow here - but it will cost you in water. A lot. Don't do it. Xeriscape instead. I fully understand the need for green - but some things we just shouldn't have in this area, because they just aren't suited and water is not unlimited. Outdoor pools and huge expanses of lawn are only two of the many things that just ought not to be here. Xeriscape. Look for plants that are drought tolerant - such as yellow trumpetbush, lantana, etc. The UNR has a lot of online resources to help you find native or at least adapted landscaping options that will minimally impact your use of water. You may water your lawn only 3 days a week in Reno, during restricted hours. Xeriscape instead and keep the lawn to a smaller space where you can relax and enjoy it, instead of trying to sod and maintain an entire yard. Plant trees and shrubs in catchment basins. Make use of native or adapted ground covers where ever possible. Xeriscaping does not mean putting down black plastic and then dumping rocks on it. Look around at other people's yards to get some ideas. Make use of pergolas and arbors (and climbing plants such as Cardinal Climber, Scarlet Runner bean, or clematis) to provide shade. Build a patio of paving stones or a wooden deck instead of solid concrete to allow water to seep in instead of running right off. Plant drought tolerant varieties. If there is an outdoor patio or deck, it will be burning hot for most of the day unless it is shaded. A pergola or partial roof is necessary if you expect to have the use of the area throughout the day, and not just in the early morning or late afternoon/evening. A wooden deck won't be nearly as bad as a concrete patio - but it'll still be too hot to spend time out there during a large portion of the day unless there is shade (or it is on the north side of the house). Our patio is on the south side of the house and it is unusable most of the day in large part because of the reflected heat from the concrete. But back to "soil amendment" - once you stop trying to turn this into a climate that it is not and cannot be, there is a LOT you can do to satisfy the need for green. Some things that I struggled to grow in lusher climes do VERY well here - such as lavender, rosemary, and German thyme. German thyme (and some other thyme varieties) make nice ground covers or edging plants for raised beds. Dwarf rosemary and thyme both will spill over edges of raised beds very nicely and in an attractive manner. All three plants are well adapted to the dry, gritty soil typical in many areas (there is clay in the flood plains to the south). All three are drought tolerant, and in fact don't typically do well in anything other than well-drained soil. You won't need to water these much or at all sometimes. Roses do VERY well here and don't require nearly the level of care they do in wetter climes. For the garden, I am using the same technique I have been using for several decades, only with no need to deal with slugs. Mulch, mulch, mulch! In an urban setting like this, I use broken down cardboard boxes (such as are used for shipping or moving) as a weed barrier, cover with the cheapest landscaping mulch I can find (currently 2.50 @ Home depot for 2.5 cu ft), plant in raised beds, and square foot garden. Wet down the soil in the raised bed - I amended the native soil with some peat moss, dug down as close to 10-12" as I could get because that is where your garden plants will keep 90% of their roots - break up hardpan at the bottom, if any. Wet the cardboard and lay it on the damp (but not waterlogged) soil. Cover with an inch or so of the wood mulch. Drip irrigate. Cut holes through the cardboard for individual plants, leaving enough space around the plant so that water can soak directly into the soil from your emitters. Plant them indented - sort of in a basin, to catch, retain, and deliver more water directly to the roots. For row veggies like carrots, lay cardboard between rows. Cover over all with the wood mulch. This cools the soil significantly even in a raised bed and makes it much more worm-friendly, as well as providing garden veggies with a cooler, more evenly moist environment for root development. If you are building new raised beds above grade, I'd just break up the top 6" of the native soil, work in some of your soil mix, and fill with a good soil mix. Look for Al's mix on these forums and go from there. You will still need to mulch. If you are trying to recreate a mid-western style garden, in a huge plot at ground level, that just isn't your best gardening solution in an area like this, no matter how much you amend the soil. By amending the soil significantly, you are making it inappropriate for native plants, and you will still need to water like a mad thing. It will also take DECADES and be a constant on-going process. Consider switching to a raised bed/square foot gardening approach instead - it will conserve water and make weeding/watering/growing much much easier. This isn't like many other places in the country, where wood mulch can be had for the asking for free or at very low cost. There are no sawmills here. There are no hay pastures to speak of and straw and hay are at a premium. If the municipality has a wood chipping facility, I haven't found it yet - but in this arid region with few trees, I'd be surprised if there is enough yard waste to warrant such. I'm pretty sure drip irrigation is limited to the same days and conditions as the lawn watering schedule - I think that's for all automatic watering. You are allowed to hand water at any time - but your water bill will be much smaller if you minimize that to emergency situations and/or container plants. Because we just moved in here, I don't have drip irrigation set up and am watering my dozen or so plants this year by hand - but next year the drip irrigation will be in place and I will build additional self-watering raised beds out on the otherwise useless Astroturf a previous owner thought would be a wonderful idea (it wasn't). Check out the Master Gardener classes this coming spring at your local extension office - learn about xeriscaping. You are not limited to cacti and sagebrush in a xeriscaped yard. Some xeriscape plants are quite attractive, such as the lavender, lantana, yellow trumpetbush, and many other xeriscape-appropriate plants that can serve to stabilize soil and attract bees, butterflies, and birds. There are some quite attractive xeriscape-appropriate ground covers that will help to conserve what little moisture there is and cool the soil. Planting xeriscape-appropriate plants with a mind to water conservation will give you an attractive but still sustainable landscape. It doesn't have to be tumbleweeds, rocks, dirt, and concrete. You will still amend the soil, but on nowhere near the scale necessary if you are trying to recreate the soils from less arid regions. Finally, be aware that because of the swing in temperature between day and night, we get frosts here earlier and later than you would think, going by day time temps. Average last frost date is mid-April; average first frost date is mid-September. You can extend this somewhat if you can protect plantings. Mid-August is the time to plant fall crops of lettuce etc. Some useful UNR extension publications: Irrigating your vegetable garden Raised Beds Desert Landscape & Gardening Becoming a Desert Gardener Container Gardening Gardening Guide for High-Desert Urban Landscapes Getting Started with a Vegetable Garden - planting dates! The All Seeing All Knowing Lawn Care Manual More can be found at - UNR Extension Publications UNR Extension Resources Keep in mind that a lot of the publications are for Southern NV (eg Las Vegas, Mojave, Moapas Valley) - so check to make sure the specific information is useful to YOUR area here in Reno. And remember that areas of Reno can differ dramatically in elevation, and a small change in relative elevation can make the difference between success or failure with a particular plant, even if it is a native species. BTW - if you are interested - backyard chickens are legal in Reno and Sparks. Much to the dismay of my son, heh heh heh! Backyard Chickens in Reno Check with the city but they seem to be legal in most places inside the city limits. Here is a link that might be useful: Desert Denial - Get Over It! This post was edited by zensojourner on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 15:32

Thanks Jule and Bern! Julie, first of all, it is great to hear from you! Yes, the golf course will be out of service for quite a while I'm sure, I just wish I could have gotten a picture of it when the deep water hit it, but that part of town was cut off and I would have had to drive miles around to get to that side, but I had things to do. I helped the 90 year old man that lives across from me about a mile away, the last two days, but I don't have a picture of his house to post, maybe later. The picture of the barn that Bern commented on is the next property over from this man and that was his house, he lived in that barndominium or whatever they call them now. I think that is great that people in Wisconsin, and people all over the USA, are sending donations and much needed items here. I guess there are still a whole lot of good people out there yet. :) The "Road May Flood" sign kind of says it all. The underpass is about a block long, and it was flooded on the other side all the way to the river bridge which is another 2 blocks away. Bern, that guy with the pole barn house already got flooded in the rains we had back in April. In fact, there was more damage from that rain in the rural areas than this hurricane rain. In that rain, I had water in my whole yard and under my entire house. Good thing my house is on blocks otherwise it would have been damaged by that high water. Anyway, that pole barn man had just finished building a levy or berm about ten days before the storm hit, to keep water away from his house, and then this happened to him. In April, the electric company was leasing his land to store trucks and old light poles, the 60 footers, on his property. There were about 60 of those huge long light poles that floated away never to be seen again, not to mention the ruined trucks and dozers and other equipment. The man had an RV, a school bus, and a tractor and frontend loader, which were all ruined. I have a few more pictures, but if you go on YouTube and type in La Grange Flood or Columbus Texas Flood, you will see aerial video clips of the massive water coverage. BTW, to whom it may concern, I'm having problems with my email account so I haven't been able to access it for about 2 weeks now, just saying... Thanks again everyone and I will see what other pics I have. Stay safe everyone.