I spent about a day looking for plans. I already knew that I wanted my house to be a U shape around a courtyard and I was building on a narrow (65' x 93') lot. I found nothing even close to what I needed, so wound up working with the builders draftsman to build my idea. If I had it to do over, I'd have gone to an architect from the get go.

In the true dreaming stages, before we even had land or had moved to our new state, I spent probably 2 years reading here and looking at houses and plans in books, magazines and online. In that time we also walked through as many houses as we could making +/- mental notes.

Once we had land and a firm idea that it was to be a single story house and had picked our architect, it took us 2 meetings to get 80% of the house the way we wanted it then another 3 meetings plus emails hammering out the rest - about 3 months from interview to blue prints. After posting the plans here, we may make a few small tweaks but will not need plans changed for that. Our architect and my husband have spent time on many engineering details and changing things as needed but that's all been done through email.

I think our timeline is faster than many for a few reasons; we've been in the construction industry 30 years, we knew going in quite a bit of what we wanted, we adapt well meaning if something that is really important to us makes something else a bit quirky, we're ok with that. My life is not going to suck because I have to walk around a table or carry a laundry basket.

I find it interesting that a person who is often cited as a design guru, Sarah Susanka, has online plans available at houseplans.com. Yikes at the price for an online plan, but still, it's interesting that she doesn't have any problem with the concept.

I used to look at plan books and online plans quite a bit. But Eventually i found them to be uninspiring most of the time. Then there's the whole issue with a plan not really fitting well with the land or lot. I realized I'd use an architect at that point and mostly stopped looking at them

I still look at them from time to time mostly looking at layout of plumbing fixtures and such.

I bought some plan books, flipped through them, then started the process of finding an architect.

I find it interesting that a person who is often cited as a design guru, Sarah Susanka, has online plans available at houseplans.com. Yikes at the price for an online plan, but still, it's interesting that she doesn't have any problem with the concept.

I think there's nothing wrong with online plans IF you can find something that works for your lifestyle AND your land. For example, I'm on a city lot that is 65' x 93' and just about anything could have worked on my site because it is a completely flat piece of land with no distinguishing features to it. No rock outcroppings, no stand of trees, no gorgeous views in the distance, etc.

Add any of those items and it changes how the home needs to be sited, or the look of the home, etc. The problem also comes in when people want to start significantly changing those plans or if they have a situation that doesn't work with stock plans.

Omelet - Most people don't object to what they make money at. There is this very old profession . . .

Funny, Mark! Careful or you might derail your own topic!

When we decided to build, we knew the type of house we wanted to build. We casually looked at plans here and there until we found our land. Once we purchased the land, we intensively researched plans for a few months before finding one that worked the best for us with the minimal amount of changes. I contacted the architect and ordered the plans. After we got them in, we spent some time studying them prior to making our changes to them. We're GCing our build, and the architect told us to make the changes we needed and move forward. Best of luck to you!

I have enjoyed looking at plans and drawing my own for years, just in the dreaming stage. I found this exercise extremely useful, when the going got real. For example, I learned how I like different bath/closet/kitchen layouts, etc. We will be building a relatively unique plan -- duplex with a few shared common spaces at a ski area -- so needless to say there were no stock plans that came close. As we honed in on what we wanted, I started drawing first on graph paper and the on a neat little app in my iPad. This at least gave me an idea of what type of lot we wanted/needed. Once we found the lot, we immediately got an architect involved. He wanted to see my sketches and used those as a jumping off point. I am loving the collaborative process. Our architect realizes that we will be the ones that are living in the home and know how we live, while I recognize what his technical and aesthetic talents add to the project.

Many infill spec builders I've known invest their time visiting new home sales offices and model homes while harvesting copies of every floorplan and elevation available. Then they have designers draw up their building plans using them as, ahem, models to fit their lots with tweaks as needed. So I've heard, anyway.

In any case, all the on-line plans I've ever looked at are so obviously
American, that they either stick out like the proverbial sore thumb-- say, southwest haciendas in the Prairie Grasslands. Or those first floor masters so beloved in American grand homes.

For my own current plan on a lot that requires an odd footprint to meet strict zoning limitations, going custom is the only choice. So it's a good architectural technology firm at $25K or choice architects starting at $85K and ending at slightly short of infinity.

We looked at house plans for years before building. Since our view is in the back, waterfront plans were the best inspiration. Ultimately, we went with our own design, worked out on this forum for the most part. I did my own drawings, and our building department will accept anything with basic dimensions, as their only interest is in how much to tax the finished house.

As such, our house is small and extremely simple. It's basically two rooms- an open kitchen/DR/LR, and a master suite. I rarely offer advice on house designs on the forum because I have a hard time visualizing large, complex homes. Most of the effort was expended on fitting our unique property, and energy efficiency. Our budget was desperately tight, I built the house pretty much single-handed, and hiring an architect was not in the budget.

$25K-85K for architectural fees!?!!?!! WOW!!! How large of an airport were you designing??

Years ago I had a client that retained me to renovate the historic inn he owned. During the process I learned he was looking to build a home for his family. I asked him if he wanted me to design the home also. He replied that he was just going to look though plan books until he fiound a plan that would work. I was busy at the time so I left it at that. During the designing of the inn renovation, I suggested incorporating old claw foot bathtubs into all the bathroom designs. He said he didn't want to spend the time looking for suitable old claw foot bathtubs. I told him he was basically spending time looking for claw foot bathtubs looking for suitable house plans. He saw the wisdom in what I said and I designed a home for him saving him time and money.

While we're not scheduled to build soon, we do like looking through them. I have about 20 plans bookmarked from the last two years including on completely documented timberframe build on Tractorbynet.

I don't foresee us hiring an architect as I've found enough plans to modify as we see fit. We're not as picky as some when it comes to exact placement of everything. I'm also a DIY'er who remodeled most of our exisiting home and plan to do a lot of finish work as well as building the garage myself.

We will be building on significant acreage and our main priorities lie with the outdoors rather than every little intricate detail inside.

I like looking at plans in general, and keep sketchbooks and rolls of my own work. Needs culling. When we moved into this house, I recognized the plan, and found an original copy hidden under the eaves. So I'm taking that as a sign. It's a simple Cape Cod TBB in Maine, so that fits.

I won't be changing anything structural, just moving partition walls, adding a couple of dormers, and enclosing a porch. Also upgrading the insulation. I've finished my sketches on bumwad, and plan to start in on drafting film next week, or maybe getting Chief Architect. I've always liked that interface better than AutoCad.

It baffles me to see that a vast majority of people do not understand what value an architect can add to a project.

Here is a link to a very good synopsis of the services an architect can provide:

http://howdesignworks.aia.org/casestudy-architectsservices.asp

I have found some people think architects are too expensive. I would encourage them to talk to several architect they would consider using for their project and see what the actual cost would be for the specific services they provide.

I have enjoyed looking at plans and drawing my own for years, just in
the dreaming stage. I found this exercise extremely useful, when the
going got real. For example, I learned how I like different
bath/closet/kitchen layouts, etc.

Yes, I've enjoyed looking at house plans for ... well, I can remember being 7-8 years old and lying in bed with my grandmother looking at house plan magazines. Since my husband and I officially made a retirement house a priority, I've been studying house plans, and -- like Scone -- collecting pictures of details I like. In the process, I've learned what I want.

How much time did I spend looking? Exactly enough.

My late mother became a successful RE broker when I was about ten. An aunt was an interior decorator. I grew up interested in SFH. I remember drawing 'furniture plans' on graph paper for my bedroom when I was about 13. I read plans in magazines; I remember loving the walk-out basement in an popular open plan ranch that featured a triangle of glass over the entry. I dragged poor DH through countless open houses while we rented. (We eventually bought a 2,000 sq ft 'starter home' when we had our DS -- and stayed in it for 30+ years.)

DH and I never planned to build, only to move farther out from Chicago after he retired. However, a home we bought to remodel became a better candidate for tear down. The layout was similar to our starter ranch; we just moved a few things around and expanded by a third. It's still basically 2-3 BRs, 3.1 baths, but larger rooms and higher ceilings. Little Sue, happy at last! lol

[edited to add: Interesting that some folks have had a longstanding interest in design. I didn't much care or notice until we started looking for a bigger house a few years ago. First house we were just happy to get something. This go-round, we spent over a year looking at existing homes. Only considered having a house built because we had an architect we trusted.]

Probably spent over 100 hrs looking at plans/layouts even knowing that we would not use any of them. Maybe another 100+ hrs reading? Another 100 hrs sketching? I found this process interesting and educational, better than watching tv.

Re architect fees -- architects, like everyone else, have to eat :-)

I have, over the last 20 years, casually looked at plan books and online sites, just for fun, imagining what I would have in a house designed for me. Our first house, which we still live in, was a spec house in a standard-type development. At that time in our lives, it would really have been stretching our resources to have a house designed and built for us - and to find an empty lot in a location we liked that we could afford was a no-go.

When it came time to build our retirement house, I made a pencil-and-paper sketch, as well as some pictures, and took them to the architect we had selected because we loved (still love) his other work. I didn't expect all of my ideas to make it into our actual house, partly because they were daydreams and partly because in real life, we had to deal with a sloping lot, development "guidelines," and strict requirements on where the driveway enters the property. And because I assumed the architect could make the most of the views from our site and the privacy we wanted in the back of the house. I felt that the house design was a collaborative process, with the expert (the architect) in the lead.

The whole process took many hours, but I don't know how many. I didn't feel like it was too much.

On the recent trend toward main-floor masters, I find it kind of funny. I have assumed that it is a case of, once again, the baby boomer generation shaping the lives of the rest of us. As they move into the years where a main-floor master works for them, houses of that design are appearing everywhere else, too. (We mostly have a one-story house, so have a main-floor master by default.)

i am quickly realizing that everything in building a house involves trade-offs. For us, one of the trade-offs is hiring an architect vs. extravagant finishes -- meaning that we want the architecture to 'carry" the home, while maintaining a comfortable floor plan for the way we live. After seeing what he is doing, I'm comfortable that that's the right thing for us.

$25K-85K for architectural fees!?!!?!! WOW!!! How large of an airport were you designing??

5,500-6,000 sf

The $25K is for a good architectural technology firm, i.e., proven experience in designing high end homes.

The $85K is for recently established but proven architects.

For a "name" architect--if you can even get them to do a project for you unless you're a somebody (which I'm not)--fees start at approx. $125K. That would for a Lorne Rose, Peter Higgins, David Weenan et al.Robert A.M. Stern has done homes in TO. Can't even imagine what he bills at!

Architectural technology is a specialty not available in the U.S. that neatly fills in the affordability gap between DIY, with their often regrettable designs despoiling the built landscape, and the budget busting bills from architects.

Ours was a first time/last time deal which is, evidently, common in the industry. I didn't want to make any big mistakes so we interviewed AIA established architects. They had to have experience designing on the water, a modern design aesthetic, and have a professional looking website. So we got a sample of the top architects in our area, which is expensive to begin with.

Ours was at the low end of the scale for custom. We could have done it differently and saved money, or had higher end appliances or finishes, but in 10 years that won't matter anyway, but the homes design will still matter.

When you don't have unlimited money it's a trade off. For us we made the right trade. Some relations disagree as they would have preferred more square feet which is the marker for affluence for some folks, not understanding that a "mansion" in some Gulf Coast community is not everyone's dream.

My spouse said "you're artistic, you design it..." No. It's not the same skill set.

I don't regret spending the money on the design. Everythingis negotiable and maybe we could have gotten similar for less but I figure in 10 years it all evens out money wise anyway. And we won't be trying to sell a bad design, or a trainwreck floorplan when we decide to downsize again.

Good luck everyone!

The plan I have was designed by an architect. I've always felt architects should become builders and developers themselves, in the mid-range especially. But the ones I've known are not too interested. If you are upset with the mass market built environment, then why not do something?

Those size fees are not the norm. Granted very large projects can be more demanding and therefore more costly all around. I think (hope) with a little shopping an architect can be found that will be a good fit in the big picture.

Maybe I should move to Toronto?

We interviewed a good selection of architects and fees ranged from 9% - 15% of the cost of construction less tax. Some include interior design services and lighting plans, others sell those extra.

Semi custom with a more limited slate of services could be had for about 4% - 5% coc. But not every architect would be amenable to something like this.

This is the Seattle area which is booming.

I like Seattle, maybe I should move there.

I went to the Lorne Rose Architects site. Under the services they offer is first listed "Site Analysis", and under Site Analysis is this tidbit:

"The first step is critical to guaranteeing that you end up with a quality home, renovation or addition. We will NOT start design work without first doing a site analysis to ensure that we have an understanding of the potential constraints and opportunities. We will look at the soil, utilities, zoning restrictions, mature vegetation, view corridors, privacy concerns and exposure of wind and sun. All of our findings will be shared with you including any mapping or photography that may be done as part of the analysis."

That tells you how important it is to start with the site, and it is something that is missed when picking a plan beforehand.

I don't see that. There are tens of thousands of plans out there, which can themselves be flipped and/or rotated and otherwise modified. Site analysis is mostly plain common sense, due diligence, and research, along with trips to the planning department. On many smaller lots, you don't have too much choice in siting anyway, once you determine your buildable envelope, well, septic, and driveway. Tiny infill lots are even more constrained, until you get to the zero lot line level, or rowhouses. You would think an architect could make a real difference in that particular situation, but I haven't exactly been wowed by much of what I've seen in that section of the market, where the banks and developers have the money and power.

Of course, if you have a big piece of land, then you have more choices. And some lots are so difficult, they need an engineer or two. But in many cases, it's not an absolute necessity. IIRC, even the AIA admits that only a tiny percentage of single family housing is designed by architects. The rest is done by building designers, drafting services, and builders with drafting skills themselves. You may not like the results, but that's the reality, and the situation is not likely to change. Architects have been marginalized, unfortunately.

Now, there are some architects who are trying to improve the quality of stock plan choices, e.g., Ross Chapin, Marianne Casato, but there's plenty of room for more. There's a real need out there for high quality at a decent price point, versus trophy houses for the 1%.

The other part of the equation is builder education, which is sorely lacking. Casato wrote a book with Ben Pentreath on basic design principles, and others have done the same. But the taste level of many builders is pretty bad, and the architectural traditions that used to prevail have been almost forgotten.

So if builders had better plans by architects, and some motivation to build better designs, you'd get a better result. But given the often adversarial relations between builders and architects, I'm not sanguine.

1. Scone's comments make sense, given that most people seem to build on city lots with few distinguishing features beyond its orientation to the sun.

2. Why assume that a person choosing a stock plan isn't smart enough to consider the lot's physical features ... or to ask help, if necessary?

>>>most people seem to build on city lots with few distinguishing features beyond its orientation to the sun

Curious, is this really true for custom, non-spec houses? What is considered a "city lot"? I thought the plan books really took off with new suburbs/subdivisions?

Edited to add:

I found census info for US 2014, the estimated majority of non-spec new single family homes were on at least 0.5 acre. Link is HERE (.pdf) scroll down past the table for "built for sale" (spec) houses. Vast majority of houses were built in a Metropolitan Statistical Area. I wouldn't consider an area with 0.5+ acre properties to be "city" but others might.

Here's a fun infographic

and a couple of additional interesting facts:

-Over 70% of new single family houses sold in 2014 were in an HOA.

-For 2014 contractor-built (non-spec) single family house starts, the estimated median contract price was $231,600.

Let's see, have a little while before the Annapolis Striders New Years Day run (no clock, no set course, no gun/horn, no pressure but ample fun). The running shop on the route even has a water stop stocked with mimosas! [Reminder to self: Be sure to stay well hydrated]

Don't spend a lot of time looking at "custom plans", what ever that is, but do look at a considerable amount of production projects, which, believe it or not, in more ways than would appear, are usually far more of a design challenge.

Some of those fees noted above are off the charts. And please let me note that that opinion is coming from someone whose been in the business and charging design fees for 35 years, maintains a great lifestyle and very comfortable with his finances.

And as I've said here before, I've never understood the reasoning behind the % of construction in figuring the fee. How is it any more work for the architect if the owner chooses an exotic hardwood flooring over vinyl or Loewen windows over Andersen 200 series?

I used to spend an evening browsing plans every once in awhile to analyze patterns and trends. Spending time on this forum has helped fine-tune my view of stock plans, so now I can more quickly rule out a plan as a "favorite". At this point I just browse to pick out specific features and designs that I like for further consideration at a later time. We have a number of years to retirement, by that time I should know what we are looking for and what we would want to stay away from regarding design features.

I'm with kirkhall. I spent a lot of time looking at plans before we had our current home designed (I feel I need to declare by a home designer not an architect as our budget did not allow for it). Our home is complete and we are in but I still love to look at plans. I could look at them daily and never tire of it. It's really enjoyable for me to look at all the different options out there and what you learn from looking at reading comments on each and consider your own likes and dislikes. Everyone's needs are different and there is a lot of creativity involved when you consider specific lots, home sizes and family dynamics and preferences.

I like to see home designs that are smaller spaces that live larger without all of the 'extra' or duplicated rooms.

I have tried to stop looking but really it doesn't hurt to collect more likes just in case there is ever a next time right?

The interesting thing was I never thought of building as I prefer older homes. I just assumed I'd find an older home down here in FL and renovate but couldn't find anything that would work for DH and me as we age.

ARG - You should hold seminars for the Seattle architects, because all of their quotes were as a %.

Though as I said, most everything is negotiable. Some more than others, but a few not at all.

How is it any more work for the architect if the owner chooses an exotic
hardwood flooring over vinyl or Loewen windows over Andersen 200
series?

I'm of the same mind but with respect to property taxes and building permit fees.

The interesting thing was I never thought of building as I prefer older
homes. I just assumed I'd find an older home down here in FL and
renovate but couldn't find anything that would work for DH and me as we
age.

I love old homes too, but I want a home that looks old and lives new. The reason we're building is that I want my functional rooms -- bathrooms, pantries, laundry, etc. to fit the way we live, and that doesn't really mesh with spaces built a hundred years ago.

I grew up in an old (1750) house in CT. It was a beautiful and amazing house, but it had it's challenges. Despite nearly freezing to death every winter, the heating oil usage would make Saudi prince blush. There was a time we thought we wanted an old house, but in recent years completely abandoned that idea. The house we live in now is the first fully insulated house I've ever lived in in my 62 years. What a revelation!

Exactly mrspete. Oh I agree with you and mushcreek. The more old homes I saw, the more I knew I wouldn't and couldn't live in one anymore. Odd layouts, no insulation, original windows without any wind protection, etc. And I realize that unless I want to spend a heck of a lot more than I'm spending, I won't get the same quality of finishing detail workmanship that was available back 100 years ago.

Yeah, I grew up in an old farmhouse, and in the winter -- even though we're Carolinians, we were always cold. I don't want that again. I have a friend who lives in an old mansion in the historic district, and it is genuinely gorgeous, and she's redone it so that it has a modern kitchen, a small bedroom turned into a master bath and closet ... but she and her husband ALWAYS have a project going on.

We spent 1-2 years looking at plans, 1 year with a craphole of a 'designer' who we trashed after some pretty severe warnings that he was wasting our time (and money!) and another year with a desiger that pretty much drafted what we told him to.
Our new home is designed to look like an 'old home' - we went through alot of architecture books, design guides, bubble diagrams, sunlight analysis, etc on our own to figure it out. Around here its 8% and up for a custom build, so the architect fees were waaay more than we were willing to pay. Not to mention we couldn't find one that wasn't 'only interested in the money, not your vision', and that wouldn't continually try to force us to abandon our full-icf-home idea.

I just said to dh last night - I could build a new 'old' home. We were watching Fixer Upper. I think old homes have so much character and style. I love that.

I spent years being frustrated with the places we lived in. Ones without good lighting, flow bottle necks, lack of storage, incorrectly sized rooms, wrong orientation, etc. Years of "this would be so much easier if..." Always had me wishing I would have a home that would work WITH my life, rather than dealing with what I had. And none of those homes were bad, just not set up for how I live. I knew what I wanted when it was time to find a house plan and when I got online to look at them I quickly realized that I wouldn't find what I wanted. I contacted 5 architecture firms...only one responded back. We emailed back and forth and basically wasted $500 just for them to give me a rough cost to build - and that was just off the top of their heads. In the end I just needed to be empowered enough to do it myself. We created our own plans and built it. With so much knowledge so easily accessible online it really was not that difficult. So far i am still so happy that we went custom and find joy in how much simpler some things are when laid out correctly. Our home is different than any other I have ever seen. It was built with only us and the land it sits on in mind. It is located in a rural area and I could care less what the neighbors think (actually I think they get more jealous over tractors than houses here). Sorry for the book!