Can you just pull the washer and dryer forward?

I might be misunderstanding.

I could, but I'm stuck on the idea of the washer / dryer being the same depth as the cabinets.

Maybe I should consider it.

I agree with benjesbride - the WD are up against the powder room wall, right? So them sticking out won't really get in the way of traffic, or narrow your aisles, or stick out anywhere where it will really matter.

True. The only problem would be visual.

... if it is a problem. I've just been afraid of doing anything that would look like washer/dryer closet we have now.

Were you putting an ikea refrigerator cabinet above them to make them look built in?

Wait. You bought those fancy little machines right? Can they fit under a countertop at standard height?

Yes, the idea was to make them look built in. You can't tell from the visual, but we were going to add a side panel and box over top. (The box would be a hacked size.)

They are ventless compacts, so they could fit under a standard counter.

Could you maybe put the dryer under the counter next to the obstacle and put the washer across the aisle to the left of the sink?

Cons: I just lost pantry storage.

Actually 11" deep is perfect for a pantry with shelves. ANy deeper and you neve find anything because it is shoved in the back. Had one of the pullout pantries with racks on either side of the mid-support in our big 5th wheel RV. Bloody nuisance. It was 18" wide but each side of shelves was only 8+ inches. Try fitting a box of cereal on that. Inevitably when I opened it, what I wanted was on the other side from where I was standing.

Washer dryer. WHy not go to a clothes processor? They wash and dry in one machine. Been the standard in Europe for 30years. Put the clothes in before you leave in the AM, come home at night and they are dry. They are only about 32" high and go under a counter and are 24" wide. Can even have a cabinet door on the opening to hide them. They front load. (been using them for 15 years - love my clothes processor. On my 2nd one)

If you did that then, you would have your 11" deep pantry, Frig, 36 inches of counter, 30 inch stove, 36 inch counter. Under the last 36" counter goes the clothes processor next to the wall and between it and the stove goes a 12" cabinet - great for cookie sheets and stuff or it could have a pullout section with racks for pots and pans.

Helpful thoughts here, thank you!

Ann, I agree that the shallow shelves would work well for most pantry items - which means a pantry in front of my masonry obstruction probably makes the most sensible use of that particular bit of space.

Of course a cabinet 15" wide by 11" deep will hold less overall than its counterpart; that is a negative. The deeper pantry I was considering had individual pull out trays, which I think would have made finding things relatively easy. That said, having a 30 x 10 base cabinet (on the sink side) and a 15" x 11 x 80" pantry (on the range side) - in this scenario, all the pantry cabinets would be modified, extra shallow ikea cabinets- would still be nice.

Notably, the pantry space is also relatively easy to supplement - with no uppers on the sink side of the room, I could always elect to add a wall shelf that could hold ingredients in glass jars.

I think we're set on the idea of a separate washer and dryer, but I'll do some additional reading on the all-in-ones. I'll admit to not knowing very much about them.

Benjesbride, I'd lose some of the drawers I'd like to have if I place both units under the counter. In the old plan, I have four 30" base cabinets with drawers for storage. If I unstack the w/d, I think I can fit at most three. Of course, I'd also gain counter space, and some upper cabinet space (or room for a over-counter microwave). Something to think about.

Best clothes processors are Malber and Splendide. Been around for yonks.

My only objection to mine is the @#$%! thing doesn't also iron or put away the clothes.

I do know I had that bloody 18" pullout pantry in the 5th wheel and hated it. Cabinet may be 18" BUT take off the framing - down to 15 inches -take off another 1" for clearance. Now the shelf unit is 14 inches. Mine was split into 2 sides. which made the shelves a miserable 7 inches. If it were just one shelf, then yeah you go from 210 cu ft (72 x 30 x 14 shelves) to 99 cu ft (72 x 18 x 11.)

With the 11" deep x 18 you could get a bit more useable space if you backed the shelves to 9" in depth and put narrow racks 1 1/2 -2" on the door for spices and little things. A cereal box is 7 in and even my 1 1/2 liters of olive oil is only 5" on the base. Would be tight though.

Why not just get the Ikea door for the pantry and frame in the rest of it to maximize space? Would take a competent handy an 1 day at most.

What about a narrow shelf -maybe 5 1/2 (6 inch board) or 7 1/2 wide (8 inch board) under the cabinets midway between the counter and upper cabinets? Makes a great spot for canisters, butter dish, sugar bowl, jars of pasta or vanilla beans etc etc. Gives you double the back counter space.

An update: we have been looking over the layout. Going back and forth. Back and forth.

So, if anyone needs a break from holiday gift-wrapping... WDYT? More counterspace, or more storage space?

Option 1: Historian moves the pantry and makes it shallower.... everything else remains the same:

The advantage here is that I've maximized my drawer storage. There are four 30" wide drawer cabinets.

Option 2: Historian, coasting off Benjesbride's suggestion, unstacks the W/D units. The dryer would move onto the opposite run. The w/d would be near but not directly opposite one another. The advantage here is a place for an under-cabinet microwave (to go in the "hole" that is now appears in the upper cabinet run) and more counter space. In trade, I have to give up a 30" wide base cabinet.

If did option two, could you move the pantry back to where it was next to the fridge and then expose the brick column you discovered? It might look really cool.

I could eliminate the pantry, but not move it.

If I eliminate one of my four base cabinet in order to unstack the w/d, I need the remaining three base cabinets. If I'm forced to chose, the pantry ranks as less important to me.

Seeing the brick columm peak out did make me want to go knock plaster off a large wall in the adjacent room...

The other possible wrinkle here is that in the second layout, the dryer and dishwasher are side-by-side. I'm not sure if this introduces a problem for counter support. We'd have vertical supports on either side of the dryer of course, but that looks like a long jog to go without a base cabinet.

It might be possible to wedge a very narrow (hacked probably) case cabinet into the run.

BTW, rebunky, we're doing the half wall on the sink side of the entry. I can't visualize it on the ikea floor plan widget, but it's going in.

With your range opposite the dishwasher, opening both at once blocks the whole kitchen. Putting the washer in that area makes things worse. Much better to offset the appliances if possible.

A stacked washer dryer can cost more to repair, because the plumber may have to bring a helper to unstack the units and pull them out. And given that laundry equipment has to be repaired with some frequency, you don't want to build it in so tightly that it ruins the cabinets when it does get pulled out.

Food doesn't have to be stored in a pull out pantry. I had one in our last house, and it really didn't work. Stuff falls out, cereal boxes are too big, canned goods are too small and can't be stacked. My favorite food storage ever was a long cabinet recessed between the studs, like a medicine cabinet. Just right for cans, jars, bottles, small boxes stored one item deep. In my current kitchen, I use little turntables in the upper cabinets. This is cheap, can be easily rearranged, and doesn't waste much space.

Finally, check your code. Some places don't want you to put the laundry directly into the kitchen. The issue is e.coli-- think dirty diapers and underwear. So you are loading the washer, get distracted, forget to wash your hands, and start chopping veggies for the salad... Yum! ;)

I agree, the DW and oven doors is a potential issue. But given where I want the sink to live, the alternative configuration places the DW opposite the refrigerator, at the entry into the kitchen. I think that is more troublesome.

The oven door is open maybe 2 minutes total every 24 hours. So in actual real life, I'll rarely want it open at the same time the dishwasher door is down, and on those occasions the sensible thing to do is close the DW before opening the ovens.

The dryer door, however, could be troublesome. There is some logistical advantage and efficiency to stacking the units.

This is a little off-topic, but still relevant - if I stack the w/d, a future renovator (myself or another) could easily move the W/D out of the kitchen and exploit the 25" opening for more pantry space of a second refrigerator or freezer column.

If I unstack them, they're everywhere.

Okay, I think I get it now, so the brick column is behind a shallow pantry in option one. Yes, I would want to keep all those big drawer base cabinets as well.

I guess I would have to think about which I needed more of, countertop or pantry storage. Could the shallow cabinets across from the powder room be used as pantry storage? If you lost the tall pantry, maybe the space under the counter in front of the brick could be used to tuck a laundry basket for sliding all the wet clothes from washer over to the dryer?

On second thought, probably the stacked w/d makes the most sense here. I have just never used one. We have one going in our cabin soon, and I am curious how I will like it. They look sooooo tiny. I suppose there is no way you can do full sized huh?

So glad the half wall idea worked. Opening that up is really going to bring in alot of light to the dining room.

Our washer and dryer are going under counter and this is what the framing looks like. They're smaller full size units from frigidaire that are designed to go under counter and were using a wood counter in this area. The two units will be pushed together with cabinet doors that will slide into the outsides of the box. We also considered soapstone counters for this area and were told we could need a central support for them

If you have another spot where you can put the laundry, why have it in the kitchen at all? Where does the dirty laundry hamper go? And the clean laundry? And the stuff that needs to be repaired or soaked? Plus the laundry supplies? BTW, I've had a stacked laundry, and lifting that weight out of the lower washer, into the higher dryer, gets old really fast. Even my 6 foot husband grew to hate it.

Your appliance doors will be open more than two minutes, I guarantee. And someone will be standing in front of the appliance, opening it. An adult takes up a space about 2 feet by 2 feet, at least. Add to that any other open appliances, especially if there is more than one person in the space, and you have the potential for an accident. If that person is holding a knife, or falling on a hot oven door, you could easily have an emergency room situation.

Safety in the kitchen is more important than any other consideration. Solve that problem first, and worry about everything else next.

"Okay, I think I get it now, so the brick column is behind a shallow pantry in option one."

Yes, exactly. My thought was that we would lose the least amount of storage if I cut the pantry's depth and moved it in front of the pillar. But kept the other elements the same.

"Could the shallow cabinets across from the powder room be used as pantry storage?"

One of them (the first shallow cabinet in the run) is already being planned as food storage. This, combined with the new shallow pantry that would be opposite it (in front of the pillar) would probably be adequate.

If we cut out the tall pantry entirely, I'd either need to use some wall cabinets or colonize more of the narrow storage by the back door.

If we unstack the W/D, I'll have to remap my storage plan and that would be one option on the table.

"If you lost the tall pantry, maybe the space under the counter in front of the brick could be used to tuck a laundry basket for sliding all the wet clothes from washer over to the dryer?"

Interesting idea... If push comes to shove, the storage is probably more valuable to me than keeping the column visible. It's pretty small. But the laundry basket nook would be useful.

Scone, sorry - my comment about the w/d was unclear. If we move those units, it will be a distant future project, and I'm not sure we'd elect to do so. That decision would depend greatly on how we update (or don't update) another floor in the rowhouse perhaps 10/15 years from now. I was just noting, to myself without editing, that if the units are kept together and someone *were* to move them, they'd have a relatively easy time figuring out how to fill a 25" wide vertical space. It's always nice when your system has a back door you can exploit.