Why does your husband want to waste almost the same amount of space that is in bedroom 3 to the foyer? It's USELESS space. You're paying a premium for space to just walk through. I don't know what the cost to build is in your area, but I removed a 12' x 12' room in my build and saved $32,000 and that didn't include things like the moldings in the room. I could see a foyer that size IF you had a 4000+ size home, but you don't.

Corner fireplaces are harder to decorate around because how do you arrange your furniture? What about making the fireplace a one way but keeping it where it is? Then you could arrange furniture in an L shape so it takes in the views from outdoors as well as the fireplace views.

Your dining area is not that large. You might want to consider increasing it. It's a small space. In fact why is your foyer so much larger than your eat in kitchen area? (I know, I'll stop belaboring the point. ;) )

Can you post the exterior?

I think OP means the fireplace will go where the corner is now, then the outer wall will be bumped out, so the fireplace will actually be in the center-ish of that wall, across from the kitchen island.

Will the hall bath become a half-bath, since the two bedrooms will share another bath?

The master closet has a lot of empty space in the middle, have you been inside the closet in another house and seen how it is fitted out? It looks big enough for one person to get dressed, but for two people to bump rear ends. Unless, when you move out the family room wall, will the closet change dimensions along with it?

Consider moving the master bath door up, so when the door opens, it doesn't completely block the toilet niche.

Do something about that wacky closet in the mudroom. The corners will swallow things whole.

What's upstairs? (Or is that downstairs?)

The angles eat up useful space and cost a lot extra. They don't pull their weight as they don't add any dynamics to the flow of the interior at all. The only time you can appreciate them is in the overhead plan view. That is a LOT of money wasted just so you can frame some cool looking plans to put on the wall in the office.

The foyer is just the glaring example of what's wrong with the whole house. It's contrived and artificial space hogging shape doesn't contribute to a gracious welcoming, or better storage, or anything but EXPENSE for zero gain. It's just bad. And expensive. Did I mention expensive? And bad?

I knew I could count on some critical feedback! Lol

cpartist,

That was exactly our initial thought. After working through and seeing so many other foyers we see this foyer as an open and grand foyer that guides traffic to the entry, the basement, the bedrooms, the greatroom and the kitchen. I look at it like a round about in a way. As for cost, after going through 20+ building specs and multiple proposals I have pricing down like you wouldn't believe. The extra sq.ft for the foyer is $5K. Worth it for us at the end of the day. Price per sqft with higher end finishes on a ranch with lot improvements (inc septic and well) is $180. See my response to Bpahome below re fireplace. Does that clarify the fireplace location or would you still have the same concern? We are TV watchers when doing the dishes. I'd say we eat 90% of our meals at the island so the dining might be too big for us, lol.

Dekeoboe,

The exterior is a pic of someone's home so I'd prefer not to share right now. I can post a pic of ours if we move forward!

Bpahome,

If the plan if facing north, the fireplace will go in the corner. I think its the best balance of being a focal point between the entry and the kitchen.

I also don't like TVs above the fireplace. They have these arms that lower the TV now but but I can't see anyone in our household adjusting it every night.

Bath 3 may become a 1/2 bath and the WIC will be reworked. Yes the WIC dims will change when the great room wall extends out.

Our exact though on the mudroom, it will be straightened out, along with the lockers/bench. Ah, I think you found something that is going to bother me now with the entry door to the master bath. You'd have to close the door everytime you go in to use it. I'll have to thinktank that one.

Amber,

That is one we've been struggling with. I love symmetry so I'd need a window to the left and right of the stove/exhaust but the left side window would not have room for a cabinet and it looks odd if its not there. Another option is to shift the stove down but its not in line with the sink...mulling over that one right now. I thought about swapping the sink and cooktop but don't like the exhausts coming down from the middle of the ceiling plus I'd rather watch TV during dishes than look outside at someone's house. We would add a set of windows to the plan's dining east wall so there would be tons of daylight coming in.

Sophie,

Those are some sweeping statements. Not sure what to say than other than I've seen it, I walked it and liked it. There are no issues with pricing compared to basic squared walls and I'm over them at this point after living in three other homes. Yes, they may be somewhat more efficient but we really prefer having some interest with the angled walls. I do see some of the problems areas though, especially the mudroom.

How many sqft is this house? It looks more like a bunker from the top than an actual house- it seems to have a very institutional layout to me, but what do I know? I live in the land of townhouses where everything is square or rectangular...

I understand you like it as is but if you ever think you might sell, (and things do change in life) I would reconsider as most people will wonder why you have an eat in kitchen that is not eat in, but you do have a foyer that is large enough to play catch in.

Personally I'd want that room in my great room for all of us who are living in the house. Just by straightening out the angles, you'd be able to add a good 3-4' to your great room.

I don't understand why you prefer space to just walk through as opposed to space to LIVE IN.

I took your foyer and superimposed it over your three main rooms; the dining area, the great room and your bedroom to show exactly what we are all trying to explain to you.

Hello cpartist,

I'm considering the removal of the arches/post on the north section of the foyer and straightening the closet so the great room is part of that space.

I wonder if the focal design layout might be throwing folks off. Its equivalent to 130 sqft. I just looked at a plan recently posted here and the foyer/walkway to the main areas is 121 sqft and not a single comment on the foyer size. Check it out. I looked at several others and they are all close to 100 sqft. Just saying...

Unless you go to a tunnel like foyer or one that opens on top of a living space you're going to be in this neighborhood of sqft.

Appreciate the feedback!

I kind of like the space in the foyer. Empty space can be such a luxury! Will you have a dormer or clerestory letting additional light to this area? Our entry is smaller (maybe 8'x10'?) but a bit of extra space would have been nice. Our kids like to lounge in the sun on the rug while they are waiting for a ride or for friends to arrive; they also like to use the space as a stage. I will say that we have a lot of folks in and out of our house and we use the front door as our family entrance, so this is a big traffic area for us.

The space gives you a lot of options. For example, it might be a nice place for a mini-conservatory, Xmas tree etc.

Have fun and good luck!

The stairs go to a...basement?

Can you show us the plan changes you want to make? I'm unclear what gets 'bumped out' or how BR #2 and BR #3 will share a bathroom. (BR #2 has a much more logical master layout than the rear suite.) Will changes iron out the disparity between space given each DD? Will there be more room between the Kitchen counter stools and what is now Fireplace? Access to the DR towards the rear of the house without going through the Kitchen?

I agree with others posting that all the 'angles' are gimmicky. The Foyer is overly aggrandized fronting a not-so-large Great Room, and it protrudes into otherwise usable space: Great Room, Den, BR #3. What use is the corner between stairs and pantry? Can't you have a somewhat deep rectangular Foyer that doesn't protrude into other spaces? It can still be gracious, but right now it reminds me of the elevator foyer in a hotel -- meant to accommodate many people at once.

I'd rather see that half bath near the family entry. Do you entertain a lot? Could guests not use a hall bath that your DD's will share?

You have a pantry. Give up some upper cabinets in the Kitchen for some windows.

A buyer will want a larger DR.

Where is the access from the rear of the house?

Oaktown,
We'll have to think this one through some more but I agree its the open space that we enjoy. The front entry will have transoms and sidelites so lots of daylight coming through at that location. Thanks!

chiuse,
I have a marked up plan view but can't get it to come through due to scale.
I did attach the initial go at the private bath but its being changed.
The space where the 2-way fireplace is will now be open
Are you saying its a problem to have to exit to the deck and have to go through the kitchen?
Any suggestion on the corner where the stairs and pantry is? Right now its just open to show off the balusters to the stairs that lead to the basement. If its walled off it definitely closes up the space but understand its not providing any function.

I felt that way about the 1/2 bath as well but thought the compromise is that its closer to the great room which is where you usually are besides the kitchen.

Access to the rear of the house is at the plan DR east wall.

Any suggestions on how to work in the windows based on my suggestions above addressed to Amber?

To all,
Would you suggest at this point we simply square off bed 3, square off den (door shift to plan Den east wall), straighten foyer closet, then remove the post that is the great room?

And by the way greatly appreciated everyone's feedback! Hopefully I'm not coming defensive at any point.

cpartist,
Did you delete your last post by mistake? I'm interested in seeing your foyer.

I think this plan is pretty neat! I love the foyer and always wanted one like it. The only thing I'd change for myself would be to slightly increase the dining room dimensions.

For what it's worth, the criticism you've received on the foyer is exactly the reason I haven't posted my plans. Some folks can't get past the fact that someone else might actually like a feature that they deem wasteful.

Good luck on your build!

Here is my foyer and how the size relates to the rest of the house. Granted I have less rooms downstairs and of course being a "final" house, our needs are different than yours.

But having said that, I'd square off your great room as it's space you won't regret having. I'd also enlarge your eat in area. My eat in area is 15'8" x 10, it's just two of us and we have the advantage of opening up the sliders 90% of the time since we're in FL.

Additionally it says your master bedroom is 15 x 16 yet because it's angled, it's not a true 15 x 16.

What I did to square it off a bit to show the difference is I moved the area with the blue lines over to the right.

All the red areas are the foyer size. Notice how in the master and the great room the foyer size is still quite a bit smaller than the room?

cpartist,

Do you happen to have an iso or front view of the kitchen cabinets on the stove side?

I definitely see the point with the size of the foyer. I think it just boils down to whether one wants a spacious open feeling that may not be completely functional or something that is a bit more closed off but functional. Eitherway you have me thinking it through. Looks like your foyer area is roughly 90 sqft?

arokitka,
I get that feeling too but none the less have to appreciate everyone's feedback as there is a nugget hiding in there somewhere! Thanks!

I definitely see the point with the size of the foyer. I think it just boils down to whether one wants a spacious open feeling that may not be completely functional or something that is a bit more closed off but functional. Eitherway you have me thinking it through. Looks like your foyer area is roughly 90 sqft?

Yes my foyer is more closed than yours and in fact since I don't have the final drawings (I've made so many changes they need to be redone and my old set is back in NY), I am waiting to see if I can make my closet a bit smaller to open up the entryway just a bit more. So yes, there is that back and forth because much as we'd like to have it all, there are tradeoffs.

As for the size, I believe it's between 90-110 square feet.

Additionally you are so smart to post your plans because even if you decide the foyer or any other part of your plan is fine as it is, having all the positive/negatives gave you the opportunity to really think it through.

(When I had to change where my front door was, a long story, I put the W/D right in the foyer area. I got such flack from all the good folks here, it really made me rethink it and now I'm so glad I did. That's just one example.) (Let me know if you'd like to read through the hundreds of comments on my threads. ;) )

Do you happen to have an iso or front view of the kitchen cabinets on the stove side?

I only have my hand drawn version I did of my stove side. (Even with my floor plan drawn out with every cabinet type and size shown, 3 KD's couldn't follow my plan.)

My ceiling is 10' high. The windows will hit at the 8' mark.

I was insistant that my cabinets went to the ceiling as I can't stand grease and dust on top of cabinets. For yourself I would definitely consider centering your stove in the center of the wall and adding windows on either side. You want to bring in as much light as possible. I completely changed this wall of my kitchen so I too could bring in more light.

I like how the side cabinets help frame it out.

If I slide down the stove I would do something like this with the stainless steel hood and window on each side then a cabinet on each side of the windows.

Otherwise I thought about keeping the stove centered and adding a double transom to the right and left.

Oh, yes, DO eliminate the Foyer pillars and closet intruding on the Great Room! I don't see the point of an open stair going *down* -- you just see the guard rail, right? Sort of gazing into a 'hole in the floor' -- might as well have a wall as backing for a reading nook with chair and lamp -- or a piano?

I love a nice Foyer, but not one that shrinks other rooms too small.

Our home is 2900 sq ft on one level -- not large. Our Foyer is 15' X 15', with some intrusion by the lower portion of the open staircase going up. The Foyer fronts a 12' arch to a 15' X 28' LR. Also opening from the Foyer are the bedroom hallway (right rear of Foyer), the door to the Library (right front), and the door to the Kitchen (left rear). Not unlike your plan, it's a pretty room at a major 'crossroads'.

I also have the angled Garage with laundry in a back hallway -- where I can conveniently 'tend' the wash as well as have the slop sink near the family entry.

I'm picturing tyour E-W passage with a E-W lozenge-shaped Foyer -- deeper than the passage to the bedrooms, but not as deep as in this plan, defined by ceiling treatment -- no pillars. You can still clip the Den and BR corners, but not as much. Closing the stairwell could also create a defined 'entry' into the Great Room.

OK so NO wall between Kitchen and Great Room? I pictured a centered wall with egress at both ends -- to Kitchen and back hallway going right, and to Dining Room going left and skirting the working Kitchen. A wall would also give you a place for some furniture, artwork, or a TV. Some plans have a shuttered pass-through in such a wall. (Maybe you don't care if the kitchen is entirely open!)

You're OK with the rear of the house facing North?

Originally I was going to do the transom, but like i said, I hate cabinets that don't go to the ceiling. A personal pet peeve of mine. I think either would work beautifully although the full windows will give more light because the cabinets won't be blocking any of it.

chisue,
I like where you're going. Wall off the stair area and put a reading nook in there.

The red represents an arch. The other red line represents the bump out I talked about.

What I struggle with is the blue line. That has to meet up at that point.
I can make it all work but where does the foyer closet go? I actually thought about putting it in that corner where the stairs are facing it west.

Open kitchen is a must. When I reference plan, its where the plan is facing.
My actual layout would be reverse and the rear would face the east.
Garage would be on the north side.

I squared off your rooms to show you how much more space each room would gain. And you'd still have a wide hallway. Using changes in height as well as moldings etc can also help make a foyer have more importance.

Your great room gains several more feet as does the guest bath, master bedroom and bedroom 3. Additionally I made the fireplace a single fireplace. You have room to put the fireplace more towards the middle of the great room with the tv on the wall next to the fireplace closer to the windows. This way the tv isn't above the fireplace wall and your fireplace isn't in the corner.

Thanks! Certainly a more linear layout. Lots to think about!

Whatever you do, I'd still add more room to the dining area.

Much better. I think you could still get my 'lozenge', just clipping less off the Den and BR so the Great Room wall lines up with the 'point' of the cut.

Does the Fireplace wall on the plan go completely bye-bye? You'd have NO wall between Kitchen and Great Room? (Might be a load-bearing wall.) I thought the Fireplace was going in the left corner of the Great Room.

I've always had a Guest Closet. Mostly it's full of our junk. It's never big enough for a large group -- all guests and wraps go to a bedroom, giving the ladies time to 'freshen up'. In my area, a bench and place to remove boots is more important near the Entry Door.

I agree with the others. That foyer is grand, and the living room it leads to is rather small in comparison. I would like the foyer very much if it led to a very grand, spacious living room, but as this plan reads, the living room isn't large at all and is almost a disappointment to enter compared to the foyer. Scale is important. Your living room size is fine, but not in comparison to the foyer.

And I'd definitely make the dining room as wide as the kitchen.

Overall, it's a very nice plan. Good luck.

Looks like there is a resounding recommendation to bump the dining room.

The great room will end up 19x19.

Chiuse,
Would it be possible to mark up and sketch what you're thinking? The clip on the den can't change due to the door opening. I like what cpartist did as it relates to the upper section of the foyer but I'm struggling with 6' of straight wall on each side of the entrance so I want to ensure I'm interpreting your suggestion properly. The fireplace will be in the left hand corner. No problem on removing the wall in between great room and kitchen.
The open concept is a must for us.

Thanks!

Was map out 6 feet. It's NOTHING! And I would make the ceiling lower there too, so that when you walk into the more open area you then see into the great room.

A 9' ceiling there may work as I was thinking about doing a vault in the greatroom. If I end up with a 10' then the lower ceiling may not work as well with the transition.

Was map out 6 feet?

Here would be my choice for fireplace and kitchen.

That should have read, whaas map out 6'. (spell check) Meaning 6' is 2-3 steps into the more open area.

If you do 9' ceilings in the great room, you can easily go down to 8' in the foyer. Trust me on that.

I am not near as good as cp and others but I really think you have room for your laundry on the bedroom end of the house unless you need 2 more full baths over there. You'd have a larger master closet too. I tried to make a short hall way but it fell apart after that. ;) For the 'old' laundry area I'd actually move the bath to the sink/garage side there and then you could have a nice closet on the side that backs to the kitchen. Nice for sports gear and off season stuff. If nothing else food for thought.

I like the relationship of spaces in the house (although the fireplace and kitchen will need some work) and IMO the central foyer is what allows that to happen. It separates the private spaces from the more public spaces, gets the big empty space above the basement stairway out of the Living Room and creates a great sense of arrival. That's not wasted space.

The alternate plans create a foyer that is not much smaller and the arrival/transition space is muddled and not well defined - a common characteristic of internet plans. Saving 50 s.f. of interior space is not much of a cost savings.

This design is reminiscent of the great houses of the past and the foyer is the same area as the one in my house. I don't know where the project is located but I would make a vestibule out of the front door recess, create a small "Foyer" between it and an octagonal Central Hall and focus my attention on the kitchen and utility spaces.

Ah for once I disagree with you JDS because for me usable living room space would be more important than the foyer.

I'm sure most GW members will disagree with me about what is important in the design of a house. For that reason I don't respond to many full house design plans but this one deserves to be defended.

I have come to the conclusion that many GW members (or the designers they find on the internet) start with concepts based on smaller relatively casual spaces we are all familiar with like apartments or vacation houses to which they add additional larger, often redundant, spaces and large garages until the most important living spaces are forced deep into the mass of the house with few or no windows and the transitions between the major spaces seem to be afterthoughts.

I have always rejected that approach. I often create dining spaces in a kitchen but would never combine a kitchen and a living room. I don't find it attractive to sit in a living room and look at someone's backside at a counter or to sit at a counter and look at a sink or cooktop. I would never design a kitchen without a major view to the outside because it is the most active space in the house. Call me old-fashioned, I don't mind; I'm old enough to condsider it a complement.

I like cp's changes very much. I would recommend posting on the kitchens forum to get that layout improved if possible. (For example, back to back sink and stove make it hard for more than 1 person to work at a time.) I'd recommend moving the fridge to the end of the run by the DR and paneling the side so it looks pretty from the DR. That will put it closer to the table (less back and forth for getting a beverage), and it will make that lower right corner in the kitchen more open. But the kitchens forum folks will give you the best layout advice.

I'd remove the angled wall for the closet in the mudroom and make that an open rod and shelf. As someone mentioned that angle will eat up much of your usable hanging space. You'll get more use out of the rod and save money on a door by removing the wall. (I'd consider removing the laundry room wall too. I think you could rework that whole space to get more out of it. Since you have a door to close it off to the kitchen, you really don't need another wall and door for the laundry.)

Re the space labeled "foyer" -- as noted above I think there are real benefits to having it as a room or defined space (whatever shape). If it is partway/not really in the great room, partway/not really in the entry, to me it becomes an uncomfortable spot. Here, it seems to me that the foyer "room" has the effect of de-emphasizing the straight shot from the bedroom wing down the basement stair and subtly re-directs towards the public living areas. It also allows a social space for waiting, greeting, meeting, etc. Put another way, without the foyer "room," this particular floor plan seems very ordinary to me; nice but not gracious. Seems to me worth $5K.

Saw your other thread about siting. Is it important to you that the garage be attached to the house?

One other thought. Since the stairway is only a stairway to the basement, could it be moved to a different location?

I think that a foyer should be in proportion to the overall size of the house. A friend with an 8000 sq ft house has a lobby/stair/foyer space that is 16 x 36.

A house I am familiar with that is 20,000 sq ft (but started out as a svelte 13,000) has an entry that's 16x48, and a second floor landing of 16x32.

These communicating/organizing spaces are useful, or they would not exist. The OP's foyer is fitting and appropriate, IMO.

Casey

All, awesome feedback! Gives us plenty to mull over. I'll discuss with the builder and will be back for some additional feedback.

I think disagreement is healthy. Worst case you hurt someone's feelings on GW (even that is dramatic) but on the flip side the homeowner is armed to make more informed decisions not only for themselves but for future generations of homeowners that may live in the home.

Thumbs up to all who chimed in!

Exactly whaas. Hopefully it gave you food for thought as to what will work best for you and your family. After all, isn't that the goal? To build the best house possible with your budget for your needs?