I know there is a lot more to the story than you could possibly ever tell us and that sometimes you have to be there to actually understand. I just tried to look at what you were saying and tried to offer help. When I said about them going to court and taking the kids~I meant to also add that they could also just come and get them. Going to court was of course the extreme. It does make the situation a little different when I know they had you take them so they wouldn't totally loose them. Most people in they're situation would be in denial of a problem and keep the kids until the state did step in and even then they're in denial. It is good that they realize to some extent that there is a problem. What happened with your DIL that she is the way she is? Did her mother do the same as she's doing with her kids and that's why she never learned things? Or is it that she had a problem that they didn't accept was there and this is the end result? Most of the examples of things that she couldn't do are simple things that can very easily be learned, as you said. I guess it makes you realize just how lucky we are. We take advantage of being able to every day little tasks that are VERY hard for others. After reading your last reply I have a different out look with your situation. I can see that your son isn't really trying to be selfish. He made a few mistakes (like getting her pregnant this time) but he has to really love her to deal with all of this. I guess from what I read previously I just thought he thought it was easier this way and didn't care if he had the kids or not. Does he call and come see them and does your DIL also? I would think this has to be hard on them, too. Has anyone tried to contact your DIL's parents? Maybe just to ask them what her history was and so on. I thought it sounded like she just disowned them but why? Like if the sexual abuse story was all made up, what was the reasoning behind that? (Just went back and reread and I saw about her mother calling SS when the daughter got outside while the mother was asleep. I can understand why she called SS~the child was in danger. I wish my MIL had the guts to do that to SIL and BIL. The kids about 2 years ago~they were 4 and 2~packed a bag and decided, well Eric decided, to go get Mommy at work. They were outside in t-shirts and diapers and/or underwear in the middle of winter! Meanwhile they're father was in the house sleeping away. They were too cheap to send the kids to a sitter so BIL worked 11-7 and then had to stay up with the kids until his wife got home around 3pm. The kids were forced to nap or stay in they're rooms most of the day while he would sleep! They got out twice! They happened to live across from the school and one of the teachers saw these two and took them inside and called the police. BIL just happened to think he better call the police and report them missing. Later that day they were laughing about the whole thing!!!) Her past may be of great help for you guys now to deal with all this. Did she come from a very loving home? Would all the attention and love and support be something that could help her greatly? I know you said she would make things hard if she came to live with you but would the outcome be better for her and your son and their kids? Would it be any harder than it could be to care for 3 kids until they are adults? I don't know if I am any help. I guess talking about it and getting this out helps a little more than anything. Taking it one day at a time will help also. You can't really worry about what will happen when the baby comes until that day comes. I'm sure you'll do alright no matter what happens. It truly does sound like your grandson is doing much better with you and you're teaching him so much. I hope you're enjoying this time. It also is great to know you took in Caroline because she's not really your biological grandchild and many people are different with step grands. Maybe you can help her out before it's too late, also. Many of the "problems" that you have with her may just be because of her age. It's that pre-teen age and you think you know it all. Also I don't know if you had daughters but some people will say they are harder at this age and if your other children were boys, that will make it harder for you. It's certainly going to be different. Also, she's older and had more influence from her mother and others in her life. It also sounded like she had to take care of herself a lot of the time and maybe she thinks she doesn't need help now? Plus she probably wasn't used to having rules or someone at least making sure she stuck by them. Zachery was pretty small and young when you got him so he's learning most of his stuff from you. YOu and your husband will be in most of his memories as a child and you'll have a great effect on who he becomes. I just greatly admire you for what you have taken on. Good luck with the future!

hi, jbraz, I agree that you need legal advice on any out-of-state visit. With that said and based on the legal advice of an attorney, I would consider taking the boy to where the mom is if at all possible and have some supervised visitation with his mom, until you are assured his best interest is served in visiting her, I think that is the key, his best interest. You gotta make sure that the mom can offer a safe, nourishing environment during the visit and how can you possibly know this without being there yourself. I, too, am raising a 3 year old granddaughter. Her best interest would be to be with her mother, but her mother cannot financially and emotionally support her at this particular time, for a variety of reasons, so that weighed out heavily in the court's decision. Of course, our granddaughter's dad walked out 3 months before she was born, so we don't have that added factor. I try to facilitate visits with our daughter, phone calls, mailings, etc. You don't want to end up in the position of being the one "who kept him from seeing his mother." Do everything you can to facilitate his connection to his mother, have boundaries, but at the same time putting his safety, stability and well-being first and foremost, as I am sure you already do and I would tell his mother that you are doing what is in HIS best interest, not hers, not yours, but his. What does your son think about the visit? God Bless you for taking such good care of your grandson! This is purely from one Mimi to another......we got no manual either with this phase of our life....we just try to keep our granddaughter's best interest in mind whatever decision needs to be made, regardless. Brenda

Hi Dorothy, I don't ever come on the forum but for some reason today I did - I saw you post and wanted to write. I have my two grandkids living with me, and have for the past 9 years, ages 9 and 11. When I first took the kids, (my daughter was into drugs) I thought it would be temporary and she would come to her senses. That was 9 years ago. I love my grandkids deeply and can't even imagine my life without them now, but at the beginning it was very hard. You are basically giving up your life, I quit working (the baby was less than 2 months old) sometimes I think - who am I - I have lost myself totally. But then I see how happy and secure the kids are and I know that this is where they belong. The see their mom a couple of times a year, she is not into drugs (although every once in a while she goes off on one) but she just doesn't have that motherly feeling, she loves the kids but it doesn't bother her a bit that they don't live with her, nor does she want them too. Anyway if you ever need a shoulder to lean on I'm here. Julie from FL

I have a daughter who is a single parent. She is finding it to be a real struggle. Maybe your DIL has got the message that being a single custodial parent is not a good option for either your granddaughter or herself. Your posting suggests that your DIL is involved as a visiting parent and that her relationship with yourself is reasonably civil given circumstances. Considering what I hear about couples who have split up, I would be thankful for small mercies. As to what to tell your granddaughter. I would tell her that her mommy loves her very much but that mommy cannot provide a good home and that you can. I think that it would be helpful to see if you can get/keep a good relationship as possible with your DIL. After all you are likely to be involved with her for a long time to come. You might have to work hard at being non-judgmental. If your son objects, tell him that it is for the sake of granddaughter. Ian